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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Magic/Spell strategies...

Posted by: TheOneRonin Oct 24 2003, 07:40 PM

Sure...Manaball...Armor...Bullet Barrier....these are all common spells for a mage's arsenal. But what other mojo do you toss about when on runs? And more than that, HOW do you use your magic? Does anyone have any new and interesting things they've done with magic while on a run? What about strategies for maximizing the effectiveness of your mages/shamans during the course of the game? Let's here it!

They don't call it "the Talent" for nothing. Show us what you've got!

Posted by: TinkerGnome Oct 24 2003, 07:57 PM

There are a lot of great spells, but a couple of the most useful tend to be makeover and sterilize. Who doesn't want to be able to create a disguise in a moment's notice or keep the team from being traced because the sammy caught a bullet and bled everywhere?

Posted by: Adarael Oct 25 2003, 01:36 AM

Here's some general theory for you, first off.

Generally, in a run, unconscious and dead have the same basic effect - out of the fight. Ergo, it makes very little sense, aside from intimidation purposes, to use mana or power bolt spells over stun-based spells for general combat. Ergo, get yourself a stunbolt.

Secondarily, get yourself a combat AoE. I use Manaball, simply because if I need to cack off large groups of people I generally want them *dead* and not ko'd, because I'm hard pressed.

Thirdly, get a combat elemental manipulation, for those dity bastards with lots of magic pool or ridiculously high willpower or whatnot. I vote Lightning Bolt. Why? It'll slag drones and electronics even better than it'll slag people.

For the remainder of spells, I'd recommend Heal/Treat, Physical Mask or Imp. Invisibility (depending on your preference), and a horde of just plain odd spells. I started the game with Agonizing Pain, Flare, Influence, and a couple of other wierd ones like Trid Spec and the like. Few people expect you to start cranking off Flares and Control manips in combat, and it can really shake things up - not to mention how effective they are OUTSIDE of combat.

Now, let me talk about Wierdness:

One of the wierdest things I ever did was create a set of force 1 spells for making lighters, as well as a set of similar barrier spells. They were essentially a limited, exclusive flame/lightning aura spells that were touch range, and could only cover one inch per force. This dropped the drain through the floor. What was upside? They were permanent in nature and still had the ability to do damage. The barrier spells were exactly the same, but absorbed damage of those types rather than created it - they were the shielding on the lighter casings so it wouldn't ... you know.. burn a hole in your pants, or something.
Granted, in a lighter (1L) they weren't doing diddly. However, if one were to cast these spells on a handful of bolts and set the damage code to 1D...

1) Caltrops from hell, if people weren't wearing large shoes.
2) Talk about crazy thermographic vision nightmares
3) No more need to pick manual locks - cast the spell on the end of a coathanger and stick it in the lock; the tumblers'll melt pretty quickly.

I figure that's a pretty wierd tactic.

Posted by: Adarael Oct 25 2003, 01:37 AM

QUOTE

There are a lot of great spells, but a couple of the most useful tend to be makeover and sterilize.

You are so terribly, terribly right.

God, I need to drop the points on Makeover and Fashion when I have the chance. Those spells just have so much style.

Posted by: Catsnightmare Oct 25 2003, 02:00 AM

After playing a aspected/Sorcerer, I found I got a lot of use out Trid Phantasm.

Posted by: Cain Oct 25 2003, 02:21 AM

Makeover and Fashion have gotten me through more runs than all the damaging spells combined.

Your basic Barrier spell has many uses, so much so that I never bother with Bullet Barrier in favor of it. Magic Fingers is so versatile, a creative mage can cause all kinds of chaos with it.

As a general layout, my magical characters have a single-target kill spell, an AoE stun spell, and a great big exclusive Frag You spell for emergencies. The single-target spell is for normal use, the AoE stun spell is for large groups of opposition (Stun is preferred for the reduced drain and if you have a friendly in the target zone); the Frag You spell is a high-force, high-drain spell, usually exclusive for learning, for those times when you have no other choice.

Posted by: John Campbell Oct 25 2003, 06:00 AM

QUOTE (Adarael)

Generally, in a run, unconscious and dead have the same basic effect - out of the fight. Ergo, it makes very little sense, aside from intimidation purposes, to use mana or power bolt spells over stun-based spells for general combat. Ergo, get yourself a stunbolt.

Yep. Knocking people out is less likely to get your target or the cops seriously hunting for you than killing them. Corps aren't real compassionate, but if you kill enough of their personnel for no good reason, they'll eventually get pissed (about the expense of training all those new goons, if nothing else) and start gunning for you personally.

The Stun spells have easier Drain, too.

QUOTE

Secondarily, get yourself a combat AoE. I use Manaball, simply because if I need to cack off large groups of people I generally want them *dead* and not ko'd, because I'm hard pressed.

I generally find the opposite to be true, myself. I use Manabolt for killing individuals when I have cause to, but if I'm casting area-effect, I'm usually playing crowd control, and I want them down, but don't have any motiviation to kill them... thus Stunball. Slaughtering people en masse also tends to attract unwanted attention to a much greater degree than just knocking them out for a few hours, or just killing one or two people...

Also, when casting something as indiscriminate as an AE spell, non-fatal can be very much a good thing. It's sometimes handy, in a pinch, to be able to drop one in, knock down everyone, friend and foe alike, and just drag the good guys out afterwards. With Stunball, they'll just be royally pissed at you; with Manaball, they'll be dead. (I actually did this once... I don't think the physad has forgiven me for knocking him senseless yet, but we all got out alive and even salvaged the mission, which had come very close to being totally blown.)

Posted by: OurTeam Oct 25 2003, 07:56 AM

The latest monstrosity in spells in our campaign is

Hail (elemental Ice area affect) with Extended Area and Sustained. Force 7. Drain code +2 +3. Plants wither and die instantly. Moving vehicles make a crash test. (MitS p. 52)

As a sustained spell it can be quickened or placed in a sustaining focus and perform its damage every Combat Turn. As the caster is currently magic rating 9, the extended area of affect covers about 1 city block.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Oct 25 2003, 08:01 AM

Healthy Glow all the way, for you Cat Shamans out there.

~J

Posted by: Drain Brain Oct 25 2003, 08:18 AM

Fast and Nutrition for all those Wilderness survival types! I know it's in Target: Wastelands but they're also handy for when you're in hiding in the sewer system... with your friendly neighbourhood Drain Brain!

Now... to create a spell to deal with the smell...

Posted by: John Campbell Oct 25 2003, 08:43 AM

QUOTE (Drain Brain)

Now... to create a spell to deal with the smell...

Perhaps a new adept power... Reduced Sense (Smell).

Posted by: Chaos Oct 25 2003, 09:02 AM

my favorite spell combo would be Physical bar. and Levitate. this combo is most effectivly used in a car/bike chase. Just give the mage a simple Physicis knowlage skill and he could do whatever he wanted with the angles and dimentions of the barrier and cars can go flying everywhere

Posted by: Sahandrian Oct 25 2003, 09:13 AM

Best spell ever. Negate Strong Nuclear Force. For when you absolutely have to kill every last person in the city.

...who made that one up, anyway?

Posted by: Bearclaw Oct 25 2003, 11:20 PM

Favorite spell combo:
Mind probe and Physical Mask.
The security guard NEVER bothers the boss at 1am, does he

Posted by: Hero Oct 25 2003, 11:49 PM

I tend to use a combination of Imp invisibility and silence when you need to be unseen and unheard, great for those video and audio based security systems. And for when you need to go through a door, and there is a camera watching it, cast trid phantom over the group to give the appearance that there is no body there and the door was never opened.

Posted by: Digital Heroin Oct 26 2003, 12:11 AM

QUOTE (Chaos)

I prefer the evil that is a levitate/custom mana barrier spell... think about it... Lonestar's barrelling straight at you in their Citymaster, fixed to run you down, levitate up above the vehicle, and leave a wall that won't affect the Citymaster itself, but will hit any living thing inside... not only do they lose their protection going however fast they are... but the back of the vehicle, or their seat, slams right into them at the same speed... double the pain, pretty much no protection...

Posted by: Bearclaw Oct 26 2003, 12:31 AM

Mana barriers don't effect people in cars. They are inside the car so you are attacking the cars aura, not the people's. Guys on a bike on the other hand are screwed.

Posted by: Digital Heroin Oct 26 2003, 12:38 AM

Physical objects aren't prone to Mana based spells at all... the vehicle doesn't exist for purposes of the spell...

Posted by: Adarael Oct 26 2003, 12:50 AM

QUOTE

Physical objects aren't prone to Mana based spells at all... the vehicle doesn't exist for purposes of the spell...

Actually, they specifically deal with this question; if someone is enclosed in a vehicle or the like, the spell won't affect them. This breaks the 'rules' of magic a little, but it was done for game balance purposes.

Posted by: Tanka Oct 26 2003, 01:05 AM

To be totally, totally evil:

Detect (Grenade)
Magic Fingers

You do the math (think Magneto...).

Or, another trick:

Detect (Guns)
Control Actions

"Hey, you've got guns, you're my new friend!"

Posted by: Munchkinslayer Oct 26 2003, 03:21 AM

Great question. I flipped through MITS and I was thinkin':
Agony: cuz it's fun
Ball Lightning: "eat that chromey!" see p. 127 of M&M
Influence: jedi mind-trick
Animal (sight): let that guard dog be your scout without alerting anyone/thing with
your physical/astral presence
Catalog: need to know who's on the other side of that door and if he's packing?
Translate: it conveys intent more than actual phrasing making it hard to lie
Cause alergy: "holy crap, I'm alergic to my underpants!"
Hot potato: for both guns and door knobs
Alter memory: "we were never here."
Gecko crawl: handy for a quick getaway
Lock: also handy for a quick getaway
Shape water: handy for a quick getaway from egypt
Fashion: it does not change the armor rating. Why not have your armor look like
a Concrete Dreams Tour '56 t-shirt?

Posted by: GunnerJ Oct 26 2003, 03:44 AM

My current character, a Dragonslayer idolist (aspected so he can only cast/summon what his idol give him bonuses for, so only combat spells/hearth spirits), has Boosted 1 which usually gives him two turns. When it does, he typically casts a *bolt spell (whatever the situation calls for), splitting all his spell pool between sorcery and drain, and the next time he goes, he dumps his unused combat pool into shotgunning any nearby targets (he's got a smartlink as well). He's pretty limited in his spells, but by splitting his actions in combet between magical and mundane attacks, he can be very effective, using the full bonuses of both pools. (If he gets shot at and has to spend combat pool to dodge, he just uses a lower force *bolt spell on the second pass, BTW). When he got invoking, his new strategy involves summoning a great form hearth spirit to use its Confuse power on four opponents, and stimpatches (he only has a 4 CHA, so he can't summon anything big, and he usually takes drain).

Posted by: OurTeam Oct 26 2003, 07:06 AM

I thought Mana Barrier went away 3rd edition. Is there something I'm missing?

Posted by: Adarael Oct 26 2003, 09:11 AM

As a standard, spell, yes, it did. However, with MiTS, there's nothing to say you couldn't just create it again.

Posted by: OurTeam Oct 26 2003, 09:17 AM

Hmmm. Makes sense. So I guess I could create "Elf Barrier" or "Troll Barrier" as well. I like it.

Posted by: Diesel Oct 26 2003, 09:21 AM

Mm, Elf Barrier. I need a sustaining focus of that + extended range.

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Oct 26 2003, 10:19 AM

QUOTE (Munchkinslayer)

Catalog: need to know who's on the other side of that door and if he's packing?

Just as clarification, I didn't think cataloge could detect living things. I know you can determine if a person is standing on the other side of a door because you detected pants, shirt, underwear, ect....but it is not always good to assume that because you detect clothes or what ever, that means Goon A is standing there. Also I don't think it gives location either, so even if you find what you think is a guard standing on the other side of a door you don't know exactly where he is on the other side of the door.

That is why I preffer Clairvoyance and Clairaudience. You can see where Goon A is, what he is carrying and hear whats going on. You can also look around for accessible weapons and possibily what your in there for, before you storm the room.

I also like Mind Probe/Physical Mask/Trid Phantasm. You never know when you need to know what you need to dress like and what badge you need to flash.

Of course Levitate, Magic Fingers, Improved Invisibility, and Silence are very handy.

I try to avoid combat spells in favor of manipulation spells, like Control Thoughts, or Nova, I feel they are so much more versitile. I mean you can a goon open a door for then or a low level laser spell could let you do some temporary tac welds in a pinch if your GM lets you get away with it.

And a spell that I was just introduced to even though I flipped through both the BBB and MiTS a million times, Resist Pain, in our last run I was shot for a Serious and punched for a Moderate, so in total I was at +5. Meaning that if I want to try and heal my Serious bullet wound I need 10's to get one success. With Resist Pain and a bit of luck I would need 5's.

Posted by: Zazen Oct 26 2003, 04:40 PM

I always thought that firewall was a cool spell because it provides cover where there is none. Throw one up to cover your path to the door, and you're at +6 to hit just from the running and the firewall.

Which works swell even at force 1.