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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ 2060

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 28 2003, 06:27 PM

So, what is my world missing if I run my game at 2060? (I only have in my possesion the New Seattle, and SR3 books.)

Someone here mentioned SOTA:2063 and I was wondering what had happened in 3 years. What is especially frustrating is having NSRCG and not knowing what half the things on the equipment, cyber and bioware, and other lists are...

Posted by: ialdabaoth Oct 28 2003, 07:41 PM

Year of the Comet, SURGE, and viable gene therapy mostly.

Posted by: El_Machinae Oct 28 2003, 08:15 PM

Ghostwalker isn't there yet.

Posted by: Large Mike Oct 28 2003, 09:10 PM

I alwayse liked earlier SR anyways. At least as far as metaplot went. UB, Dunk, that was my kinda thing. Shutdown was fun too...

Posted by: Athenor Oct 28 2003, 09:34 PM

By 2060:

1) The fallout from the Corp war has already occured. It's now Big 10 instead of Big 8.

2) Renraku has shut down.

3) YotC hasn't happened yet, and all the connected events to it.

4) A good chunk of the things in SoNA have not happened yet. Read with discrecion.

5) THe war with Aztlan/CAS hasn't started.

6) The big fights of the dragons have not occurred yet...

Beyond that, everything's mostly innoculous. TBH, you have the best books for 2060 as it is. 2061/62 were somewhat of a blur, due to the Comet overlapping, and 63 is only about half done.. The biggest book for it (Shadows of Europe) hasn't come out yet.

Athenor

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Oct 28 2003, 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Athenor)

2) Renraku has shut down.

5) THe war with Aztlan/CAS hasn't started.

Athenor

Athenor's point 5

I didn't know they were fighting each other yet. I have all the books. I know Ghostwalker has kicked the azzies out of the FRFZ, and given the land to the CAS. The Pueblo grabbed L.A. and a lot of land from their land to the Pacific that the Azzies were eyeing up. Tension is high but I don't think any fighting as in military troops vs. troops was occuring. I know the Azzies are running a guerilla war or at least trying to get one started in Denver. I may be wrong can I get a page number, it has been a while since I have read any of the plot books.

Athenor's point 2

More accurately Renraku archology (the big one in downtown seattle) has not shut down. Just clearing that up because you mention corp war fallout. Which might lead him to believe Renraku was destroyed, when really they got a little stronger from another corp falling apart and then they lost a lot to an AI shutting down thier gem of Seattle.

SOTA:2063 also has some meta-magics that aren't revieled yet, at least are not wide spread. Meaning that if you do get the book you could use the new meta-magics in your game that is 3 years behind, but say it that was developed by your bad guys or the guy who taught it to your PC's. Most of the stuff in the books is not really time sensitive. Magic spells, equipment, guns and some enterainment stuff, etc..., really only the plot is falling behind.

Our group usually stays behind one year on purpose so as the plots are layed out the GM can more easily tie them into our world, and it seems more real that our characters through contacts can learn of up coming things and it feels fluid. Like the comet thing, it was a great idea with the probe race and everything, but when the book came and we got the group back together and started, the final result had come out so it would seem rushed or like our characters were out of the shadow loop. So what I am trying to say is even though your group is 3 years behind the offical time line you suffer nothing from it. The plot line can be caught up if you like, but why rush a good long story just to keep up with meta-plot that in most cases probably never really effect your game, unless you play the pre-made adventures. When we tried to keep up with the meta-plot we missed a lot trying to do super tuesday and then the group of runs, it just wasn't that fun.

The NSRCG is not an offical Fanpro product so in order for the maker of that program not to be sued he can't put all that info in there, it would be copy right infringment. I am not sure what is in it, never used it, but I am sure most of it would be in the BBB, and the 5 or 6 core rule books maybe the 3 or 4 other target books. If you do a search on this board I am sure what ever it is you need explianed will pop up.

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 28 2003, 11:08 PM

He has a ton of books listed in it. They only reference the page number and what book it is in, but he has MANY books listed...

Hmmm.. I just looked. Here is the list.

Adept's Handbook
Awakenings
Blackjack's Firearms
Cannon Companion
Chrome Books 1-4
Corp DL
Corp Sec
Cyberpunk 2020
Cybertech
FoF
France
Germany
London
Magic in the Shadows
Man and Machine
Matrix
NAGEE (4 versions)
Nerps: Shadowlore
Paradise Lost
Paranormal Animals of NA
Platic Warriors
Rigg 2
Rigg 3
Rigg BB
Seattle
SR1
SR2
SR3
Shadowbeat
Companion
Shadowtech
SotA:2063
SSam Cat (2nd Ed)
Target: AL
Target: W
Grim
TSS
YotC

Posted by: Athenor Oct 29 2003, 04:07 PM

Um...

RAS happened on Christmas day, 2059, if I recall correctly. The data dump on it didn't occur until 2060-2061, and it "reopened" (with military help) in mid-2061, I believe... Shaky memory on the exact timeline, but I know it occurred before the comet, which was late 2061.

As for the CAS/Aztlan war? *points to the Yukatan* That's what I meant. I don't know how many places this is mentioned since the fallout of Ghostwalker -- I know SoNA talks about it, I -think- Target: Wastelands discusses it, Target: Awakened Lands has a small blurb on how the astral's looking due to the combat... SOTA: 2063 I think talks about it in regards to merc contracts... It may even have some work with the reconstructionists in Threats 2 (although I doubt it)...

It may not be out and out war, but stay out of the gulf.. it is definitely going on, and I'm -expecting- a milspec book (or magazine article) on these two powers' forces here sometime in the next 2 years...

*wink wink*

Athenor

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Oct 29 2003, 04:49 PM

That was something i never could quite get, Brainscan happens and towards the end of it year of the comet starts (the race at least)

I found it a bit of a pain to get year of the comet in the game cos by the time it was released i had finnished brainscan about to months earlier.

Just continuaty issues. or have i missed something

Posted by: Nath Oct 29 2003, 07:54 PM

QUOTE (Athenor)

1) The fallout from the Corp war has already occured. It's now Big 10 instead of Big 8.

Well, if you ant to be precise, the Corp War end by summer 2060. The last date in Blood in the Boardroom is Fuchi official dissolution on July 28, the last big move being the Yamana-Shiawase marriage in June.

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Oct 29 2003, 08:46 PM

QUOTE (Athenor)

I knew about the war on the Yucatan, the Mexicans (I think that is what they want to be called) and the Azzies. The CAS has always sent "help" to the rebels, but I didn't think it was full scale war as of yet, which is not to say it will not happen. I guess it is just samantics, the CAS has been fighting a war with the Azzies for years.

@ Nindaru

Adept's Handbook I think this is a net book for Shadowrun with another different group of people writting a different one trying for Fanpro publication
Awakenings is superceded by MiTS so you can over look anything in it
Blackjack's Firearms Not a Shadowrun book that I know of
Cannon Companion All about guns supersedes FoF and SSam book, all the good tuff for SR (anyone who wants to shoot or punch)
Chrome Books 1-4 this is again I believe a GURPS book
Corp DL Info on the corps I think it is 2nd edition still a usefull book
Corp Sec Info on Security which supercede NAGTRL then being supercede by SOTA:2063 for the most part
Cyberpunk 2020 this I believe is a GURPS book
Cybertech superceded by Man and Machine
FoF is 2nd edition
France is a France only book that I heard is very far from FASA/Fanpro canon
Germany 2nd edition Nice book awaiting to be knocked out by SoE
London same as Germany
*Magic in the Shadows The book you need to play all the good stuff in SR(Magic)
*Man and Machine The book you need to play all the good stuff in SR(Cyber, some Bio, and Nanites, I think some chemical stuff is in it also)
*Matrix The book you need to play all the good stuff(Deckers)
NAGEE (4 versions) not sure what they are it sounds like North American Guide to Real Life/North America 2 different books both 2nd edition
Nerps: Shadowlore Again not a shadow run book that I know of
Paradise Lost An adventure for 1st or 2nd edition that lays out the Hawai'in nation
Paranormal Animals of NA 2nd edition A good book but hard to find, superceded by the GM screen for 3rd edtion, rumor has it a new critter book is in the works
Platic Warriors As far as I know not a Shadow run book and I have them all as far as I know according to the Fanpro list and the old Fasa list.
Rigg 2 2nd edition supercede by rigger 3
*Rigg 3 Get the revised copy for all the good stuff you need in SR (riggers and any one else interested in cars)
Rigg BB superceded by rigger 2
Seattle The old one is superceded by the New Seattle book and SoNA, some people I hear like the first Seattle book better.
SR1
SR2 Some people still preffer this version then 3rd edition
*SR3 the One you need to play all the good stuff in SR
Shadowbeat 1st edition A really cool book that is really hard to find, but now is kind of superceded by Sprawl Survival Guide
*Companion A supplement that adds to the basic rules, some people seem to totally disregard large protions of it
Shadowtech 1st or 2nd edition A cool book that is now defunct, Superceded by M&M, and few others
*SotA:2063 A compilation of stuff new magic, security, mercenaries, culture shock and I think something else
SSam Cat (2nd Ed) defunct
*Target: AL (awakened lands) As most call it Target: Australia but it has some stuff about other awakened lands I don't remember much else about it I haven't read it lately
*Target: W (waste lands) I think a really good book just for the equipment and some spells, and the description on survival of hazardous lands that I always seem to find my self.
Grim 1st edition Grimore I think, it is now defunct, MiTS is the book you need.
TSS If this is The Shadowrun Supplement that Adam makes I don't know much about it never really read it
*YotC Interesting book, I know the Shedim come from it, but I think a lot of people dismiss a large portion of that has to do with SURGE.

If you want to play 3rd edition SR the ones with the * are the books you want. The others are nice to flip through but are ultimatly no long pertain to SR rules wise. The ShadowRun Companian has two versions 2nd edition and 3rd, the covers are different, the 3rd edition has a purplish cover with a lady shooting a bow on a building top.

What I mean by saying if a piece of gear shows up that you want more detail on just do a search on the forum and chances are you will at least find a description on what it is, the way people talk about stuff here you might even find all the rules for it if look hard enough. But if you have any more questions about the books I can usually remember what it is and if it is worth getting (at least from my point of view).

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Oct 29 2003, 10:38 PM

QUOTE (Frag-o Delux)

Chrome Books 1-4 this is again I believe a GURPS book

Not quite, these were equipment/ style guides for cyberpunk 2020 a game by R.A. Talsorain (sp?)

The contents of which have been converted for shadowrun, by someone on these boards (or they have a link)

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Oct 29 2003, 10:42 PM

OK thanks for the clarification. I don't use much fan stuff. Our GM thinks it is a form of cheating or something. If it isn't offical or we didn't make in house he doesn't trust it. So if I want to try something in our games that is fan based I have to say I made it up, or lead him down a path that makes him think he helped develope it. Thank ghost he doesn't have a computer, hehehe. So I really don't use a lot of fan stuff because it is usually to much of a hassel to get it in our game, so I only fight the battles I feel good about.

I heard of Cyberpunk 2020 but for some reason I thought it was a GURPS game while writing that post.

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 29 2003, 10:51 PM

Thanks for the clarifications on the books Frag.

Oh, and NAGEE is the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Everything Else. There are 4 versions I get to choose from in the options box, but no explanation.

Posted by: Dr Vital Oct 29 2003, 10:54 PM

As long as we're discussing what you need to have, does anyone know if they reprinted M&M book is actually coming out this month or has it been delayed?

I'd love to buy the new edition, but I need a copy soon.

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Oct 29 2003, 11:33 PM

QUOTE (Nindaru)

Thanks for the clarifications on the books Frag.

Oh, and NAGEE is the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Everything Else. There are 4 versions I get to choose from in the options box, but no explanation.

Then NAGEE is a fan book or something, because they only have Neo-Ancharist Guide to Real LIfe and Neo-Ancharist Guide to North America. The first discusses security and a few other things again it has been a while since I read it. I think clothing, some guns and other things that have been re-done in the newer books. The later is a place book like a Target book, it covers, New York(after the quake), DeeCee, Chicago(before the bugs), and I think Atlanta and San Fransico. They are both good books I just recieved NAGTNA, I never really liked place books when I first started playing SR, I didn't have the money then either, but now I collect all the books.

As far as reprints I don't know, I think there is a thread that has the release dates, they are accurate as accurate as these things get which is not very. Calm down Adam I am not bitching just stating. In fact if you have any info on releases I am sure you can torment us a little. I don't care I like to be surprised.

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 30 2003, 03:00 AM

Ok, after making some calls, our group has more books than I thought. I wonder why no one had said anything prior to this? Well, that's another topic. Anyhow...

Here is what we have...

Matrix
Target:Matrix (What's the difference?)

Virtual Realities, 2.0 (Doesn't one of those replace this?)

Lone Star
Neo Anarchist's Guide to Real Life
Neo Anarchist's Guide to North America
California Free State
Target: UCAS
Native American Nations, Vol. 2 (Was the first one any good?)
Super Tuesday
Harlequin
State of the Art: 2063
Blood in the Boardroom
Shadows of the Underworld
Tir Tairngire
Cannon Companion
SR Companion
Critters
First Run
Magic in the Shadows
Man and Machine
Renraku Arcology
Rigger 3

Again, I must note that I am terribly suspicous that these books have been "hiding" on their bookshelf. We'll find out next game what is really going on. It's a good thing I have only allowed the SR3. =)

Anyhow, of those titles, what is accurate and what isn't? (Just in case they really do have them...)

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Oct 30 2003, 03:12 AM

QUOTE

Matrix
Target:Matrix (What's the difference?)

Ones the extended rules (matrix) the other is background fluff and a VERY good read.

QUOTE

Virtual Realities, 2.0 (Doesn't one of those replace this?)

Yup matix

QUOTE

State of the Art: 2063
Cannon Companion
First Run
Critters
Magic in the Shadows
Man and Machine
Rigger 3

All these are current version of rules (barring reprint for erratta)

QUOTE

SR Companion

The third edition one i take it?

QUOTE

Renraku Arcology
Blood in the Boardroom
Shadows of the Underworld
Target: UCAS

Tho not strictly 3 ed, still usefull. AH would be the aurotiy on this tho and on the usefullness of the others

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 30 2003, 06:04 AM

AH?

Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 30 2003, 06:16 AM

Ancient History.

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 30 2003, 06:28 AM

Ok, I am a little lost. Ancient History is a person, right?

Also, what year did the game go from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd?

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 30 2003, 07:14 AM

Oh, and another note: what year in game are the changes in edition? I know 3rd is 2060.

Posted by: John Campbell Oct 30 2003, 08:32 AM

The SR1 and SR2 corebooks were 2050 and 2053, respectively.

Posted by: OurTeam Oct 30 2003, 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Nindaru)

Ok, I am a little lost. Ancient History is a person, right?

Actually, there is some debate on whether he (it?) is a person. See the http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=390 where that issue is debated.

Regardless of what he is, he is one of the http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?&act=Members&max_results=10&sort_key=posts&sort_order=desc on these boards. He gives the most definitive posts regarding the history of the Shadowrun world.

Great Question.

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 30 2003, 03:30 PM

QUOTE (OurTeam)

QUOTE (Nindaru)

Ok, I am a little lost. Ancient History is a person, right?

Excellent, thank you!

And thanks to John C. for posting the in game dates. Does anyone know the release dates (just the year) of the editions?

Posted by: Athenor Oct 30 2003, 04:02 PM

Before I begin:

The CAS/Azzie war has been simmering for a while. I consider it a full out war, however, due to what's in SoNA -- border raids, gulf attacks, stuff like that. Azzie was -extremely- pissed over the whole Denver thing (not to mention losing some of their biggest mojo).. The fact that the CAS was used as Ghostwalker's military might for the invasion is what is sending things over the top. Pueblo might get involved as well; After all, snatching up L.A. pissed Azzie to no end, not to mention "restricting" access to the Mojave. And then there's the lingering thing that Azzie's pretty much on the world's bounty list, thanks to the Big D.

A good question to ask yourself in regards to books is what you expect the tone of the game to be. Is it going to be gangers? Mafia? Smuggling? Proper Shadowrunning? Corp Work? Activisim (Overwatch and such)? Or are you going Epic level Dragons, or Epic Level Earthdawn? In my mind, those are the rankings of genres, with gangers at the bottom, and Earthdawn tie-ins at the top. Obviously sub-genres, like Lone Star/Docwagon, or Epic Level Corp intruigue, fit in there at different levels, but I think you get my point.

Sooo, analyzing what you have:

The core books are a GM's necessity. Always read the first 3 chapters of each book -- they give the background of the subject in relation to the "real world." In Cannon Companion, read the Applied Simsense rules; in M&M, read the "fluff" that proceeds the toys. As these books do not define archtypes, their layout is a bit different. Remember, however, that most of the expansion toys are meant for Smuggler genre and higher, although some may seep into Mafia games.

Lone Star obviously is the GM's toy. Kinda been replaced, rules-wise, by New Seattle... But Lone Star is a book I seriously wish to get my hands on.

Target: Matrix is a must-read in my group. It shows, better than anything, what a wired society looks like, from all angles. Check out the troll babe in the "entertainment" section.

The Neo-anarchist's books I do not have, and cannot comment on. All I know is that they are -old-.

CalFree is great for Smuggling games, and for world-hopping. It will be outdated come 2061/2, however. I found it one of the hardest books for me to finish, however -- only beaten by Shadows of the Underworld, which I wish I would've read faster.

Target: UCAS is a setting book. Use it for any genre; the politics in it have not necessarily gone away, only been modified. Boston is the most untouched area in it, truthfully.

NAN vol. 2 is completely trashed by Shadows of North America, but the NAN settings are great for Proper Running, and actually Activism stuff -- righting the wrongs in the world. In case you are wondering, NAN vol. 1 covers the "other half" of the NAN -- they just split up the book. Also note: If you get Shadows of North America, three important N.A. areas are left out. The Trans-polar Aleut is covered in detail in Target: Wastelands. Aztlan obviously has its own book. And finally, the Carib League gets the once-over from the Gingerbread Man in CyberPirates. Ahh, Miami. Always a good vacation spot.

Super Tuesday and Harlequin are both adventures. I'll leave it to you to figure out their genre and power levels (as I do not have access to either)...

SOTA: 2063 updates Fields of Fire and Corporate Security Handbook, as well as introducing a bunch of new toys. I'd tread lightly with this book, as it does reflect the crossover from 62 to 63... A year after the comet.

Blood in the Boardroom is a framework to give you an idea of runs from 58-60. The actual spelled out adventures are about Standard Run level, although it can easily spike to Corp Work, or even Epic Level corp intruigue in an instant if you wish it to. Great for GM ideas, as all the track books I own are.

Shadows of the Underworld: Mafia, Mafia, and more mafia. If you are gonna run anything with Al Pachino, read this first. Some parts are Hollywood, some are truthful, but it is a great book for low to mid level campaigns.

The Tir: Can't touch this one, but from what I have heard, it leans towards "Country work" to epic level Earthdawn. It's on my list of buys as well.

SR Companion: I want to make a special note about this core book: The back gives great suggestions for every genre possible, and is a huge GM aid. But of most import are the ganger information. This, combined with New Seattle, creates the lowest-level ganger setting.. Giving you everything you need to work in the bottom rungs of organized crime.

First Run: Another adventure, but introductory level. First adventure is ganger level, the second is Corp Work (I haven't seen any direct influence from it in the canon, therefore it isn't Epic Level Corp), and the third is Activisim/smuggling/ Standard Shadowrunning, in that general area, depending on how you look at it, and get your players into it.

RAS: The -EPITOME- of Epic Level Corp. This is not an adventure for the faint of heart. It is this game's Tomb of Elemental Evil, or the Tomb of Iuchiban, or the Underdark for that matter. It requires a lot of creativity and ruthlessness on the GM's part.. but even someone who owns RA:S doesn't necessarily know what happens. This book is also at the core of finishing the final chapter of Brainscan (as if it needed even more to make it nasty). Brainscan also holds the updates on the equipment in RA:S, to make it more compatable with 3rd. Just a small request: If you decide to throw them in here... make sure they visit the glass maze, please? The mazes are my favorite part of the SCIRE.

Athenor

Posted by: Nindaru Oct 30 2003, 05:01 PM

Glass Maze: Check.

Thanks for all of your help guys!