Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Mage's

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 29 2003, 05:36 AM

How does a mage know if she is awakened or not.

is it through a vision?
if so what sort of things as an example could be detailed in the vision etc.

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Oct 29 2003, 05:39 AM

It varies by the mage.

Some realise they are awakened when that fireball spell fries the gangers who were causing trouble. Some are assensed before they use any magical powers and then are trained. Spontaneous astral perception or projection are possible as well. Most shamans get visited by their totem.

Posted by: mfb Oct 29 2003, 05:43 AM

as i recall, some mages suddenly manifest the ability to cast spells and such--as in, their sorcery skill jumps from 0 to 4 or 6 or whatever. of course, if this happened in-game, you'd still have to spend the karma.

there are also tests to determine magical potential, though they're not foolproof--there are stories all the time about how such-and-such mage never showed any potential on the tests. i assume that the test consists largely of extensive examination of the subject's aura.

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 29 2003, 05:44 AM

i'm not talking about shamans just mages. and i'm just looking for a few examples thankyou for the ones you gave

Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 29 2003, 05:47 AM

Generally, Shaman find their way through vision (often brought on be an illness).

Mages are often "discovered" either by demonstrating magical powers, having one with astral perception spot the traits, or from undergoing "the Test" which can uncover some types of magical talent.

However, an accidental slip into astral, an invisible friend becoming visible, and "unusual" occurences are not uncommon or impossible.

An astral slip might appear as an out of body experience. Perhaps the unAwakened child dreams of flying above the city and seeing things or places they've never seen before. They could describe these places in detail and so on.

Perhaps they feel the power, an ocean of water they can almost taste as if salt on the breeze, but never see... until the dam breaks.

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 29 2003, 05:50 AM

could you like say that one day you where walking along with your friends and you suddenly had a sense telling you that someone was going to bring harm to some of your friends for example and youd actually seen the enemy coming through the astral plane without knowing it.
how could i make that sound better?

Posted by: mfb Oct 29 2003, 05:55 AM

have one of your spells be "Sense Enemy". you cast it unconsciously, and it warned you the bad guy was coming.

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 29 2003, 05:57 AM

lol got that spell already.

any thoughts on how i can write a backround?

i'll post the link to my character in little bit.

Posted by: mfb Oct 29 2003, 06:01 AM

one of my favorites is to write up a http://www.motorfirebox.net/shadowrun/italydata.htm on the character, from the POV of a third person--maybe the character's enemy, or someone who taught the character.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 29 2003, 06:01 AM

Hmmm... Sounds more adept like than mage. I find it unlikely that you'd cast a detection spell unconsciously... without some serious desire or ritual that is.

Perhaps have an assailant surprise you and friends, only to burst into flames. And as that happens you feel you body burn on the inside with fire first stemming from fear, and then you feel the fire coursing though you burning in time with your heart beats. It fades and you feel totally "drained" unable to even finish walking home. Or some such.

Either that or have some ritual you preform (Mother Mary please protect me on my journey, ect as per the characters religious structures) that gave you the basis for your abilities. It is not uncommon (I would dare say it is typical) for magic to happen durning religious rituals.

Posted by: Cain Oct 29 2003, 06:21 AM

It could easily be unconscious desires, Kanada. It could be someone who's just been persistently "lucky"; the detection spell force doesn't need to be very high.

Posted by: Lilt Oct 29 2003, 08:52 AM

The problem with spontaneous casting of hermetic spells is the way that hermetics think of spells; as arcaine formulae that you weave to make the effect. I suppose it's still possible though.

One way you could do it is saying that the character was reading through some hermetic texts and willing himself to cast XYZ spell but it wasn't working. Then, on the way home he was mugged (& hit on the head?) which prompted him to finally pull-off the spell. Even better would be that he passes-out due to the drain and comes-round next to a badly charred corpse that has his wallet.

Posted by: mfb Oct 29 2003, 11:16 AM

some mages think of it that way, lilt, but there's nothing that says other mages don't see it in other ways. after all, there's no rule mechanic that differentiates between a shaman casting a spell and a mage casting a spell (except for the possibility of bonus/minus die, according to the shaman's totem). a mage who concentrates on sensory spells, for instance, might view his spellcasting as simply looking very closely at what he's examining. a christian might see his magic as the direct will of god, rather than any effect the mage himself produces.

Posted by: rlemansky Oct 29 2003, 11:25 AM

Nihao.

Aside from the usual testing in schools, a neo-mage could be discovered by a teacher who notices 'something odd about that kid's aura' or somesuch.

Spontaneous casting of spells using arcane formulae IS possible, though ritual form is more likely. Acquiring a lock of the hair of an enemy and burning it in a black candle's flame's just the sort of thing a nascent mage might do. Spontaneous shaping of astral energy for a sorcery effect (like bullet deflection) MAY happen, but the mage may just as likely go down the Psionics path.

For the character, I'd figure the neo-mage could always see things-imaginary friends, brighter colours, weird shimmerings in the air-and always just chalked it up to an overzealous imagination. When confronted with a stressful situation (and after the vast biochemical changes in puberty, etc.), she finds that not only can she see these colours and energy fields, but shape them to her will. AFTER the encounter, she'd probably realize what she is and find a mentor, fast.

Sayonara

Posted by: Synner Oct 29 2003, 12:07 PM

QUOTE (mfb)

Lilt specifically and quite correctly indicated the way hermetic mages view and understand magic. Their paradigm doesn't comprehend free-form magic use. This goes for all the sub-varieties and variants of hermetics: Chaos mages, street mages, Druidic hermetics, etc.

In the Sixth World a practicing Catholic hermetic mage would almost certainly be restricted to learning Theurgy (the Church-sanitized version of hermetic magic). Otherwise he'd be a normal hermetic mage who happens to be a Catholic. In both cases the issue is that a Hermetic would never view his magic use as God-given. He might think his inborn Talent is a gift from God, but the Hermetic understanding of spell casting doesn't include divine inspiration in the actual abilities and spells themselves.

Furthermore it is highly unlikely a Hermetic mage would be able to cast a spell at all without the proper formulae and stylings that allow him to mentally and astrally channel mana into the spell (or conjure a spirit for that matter).

This means it is highly unlikey that a hermetic will spontaneously manifest his Talent. It is far more likely that he discovers his talent by accidently dropping into Astral Perception, being discovered by the screening process corps and governments have implemented in schools and universities, or finding out that he actually understands the meaning of a spell formula someone handed him for the fun and it actually works. Also remember that even latent talents are detectable using Astral Perception so he might even be "discovered" by another mage or shaman late in life.

Posted by: mfb Oct 29 2003, 01:03 PM

synner, if a person with full magical potential can be limited to specific spells and a single type of spirit simply because they believe all magic springs from psychic power, i think it's easily possible for another mage to believe that his power comes from god. it's not common, sure, but it's certainly not impossible.

as for spontaneous Awakening, a hermetic might experience it as a sudden understanding of the raw mechanics of magic--tapping into some kind of Jungian shared subconscious, maybe memories from a past life. there's any number of possibilities, which--while not common, like i said--are definitely possible.

Posted by: Synner Oct 29 2003, 01:28 PM

You are mixing magicians in general with hermetic mages.

While SR magic is moulded by belief, "Hermetic mages" believe that magic must be channeled through a set form of arcane symbols, formulae and metaphysical constructs. That is the essence of the Hermetic paradigm.

Hence a magician (not a hermetic mage) who believes his powers are driven by divine power - rather than a neutral and pervasive astral force - is demonstrating a different understanding of the nature of magic from the Hermetic paradigm and by definition isn't a hermetic mage. The fundamental inconsistencies between Divine-derived power and hermetic magic (which does include higher planes of existance and "higher spirits") mean that a magician which believes the former is going to be contradicting his beliefs by practicing the latter.

This is one reason why Theurgy is separate from traditional Hermeticism, and even in that case a Theugist does not believe his spells are divine powers, he believes his Gift to wield magic is a Divine Gift, but the actual magic use is a human ability (just like any other product of human minds). The difference is clearer yet when you compare a Theugist with an Idol follower. The latter believes both his Gift and his spells are direct manifestations of the divine power he worships/believes in, while the Theurgist separates the two (in practice separating Magic from Miracle - he believes only Saints are "pure" enough to manifest the Divine Will directly).

Note - This all relates to in character understanding of magic and in character aspects of the game. In terms of game mechanics some Wiccans and Qabbalists also use the rules for Hermetic magic although they are not Hermetic Mages.

That being said you are correct regarding the spontaneous manifestation of a hermetic mage's powers, however it would take an exceptional set of circumstances or an exceptional individual to produce anything but the most uncontrolled manifestation of magic.

Posted by: mfb Oct 29 2003, 01:45 PM

heh, looks like we agree. my point has been that a character who uses the rules for hermetic mages--summoning elementals, etc.--does not necessarily subscribe to the hermetic paradigm.

Posted by: Cray74 Oct 29 2003, 03:36 PM

QUOTE (Synner)

While SR magic is moulded by belief, "Hermetic mages" believe that magic must be channeled through a set form of arcane symbols, formulae and metaphysical constructs. That is the essence of the Hermetic paradigm.

Meh. I figure hermetic mages discover their talent with accidental castings or astral perception or whatever like any mage. Hermetic mages just lock on to the whole notion that to better control and shape their spells, they need to chant in Latin and trace geometric symbols in the air. From that initial clumsy start, the hermetics gain control by becoming, well, hermetic.

Alternately, some corp or gov't spots their talent as a kid through those dubious magical tests and bring to the kid's magic out with very structured lessons and formula, and from then on, the kid only knows how to cast in that, well, hermetic fashion.

Synner, do you have a line from MitS about magical kids with hermetic leanings NOT being self-discovering sorts?

Posted by: Cray74 Oct 29 2003, 03:45 PM

Fun way for a mage to mess with someone's head:

1) Overstimulation or related "tingling sensation" spell
2) Directed illusion spells that only effect one target
3) Trid Entertainment spell
4) Assorted other spells

With these spells, convince someone that they're manifesting into a mage. (Mage wannabes, street samurai, and ex-dates might be the most fun).

Use the illusion spell to let the person think they're "astrally perceiving" at erratic moments, projecting the illusion of nearby astral space (which the pranking mage can see) onto the victim's sensorum.

Use a low-grade overstimulation spell (or similar illusion spell) to let the victim "feel the power surge through them" when they "erratically cast" their spells (simulated for on-lookers with showy illusions). Every now and then, cast another spell with real effect in a manner that the victim thinks if their doing.

The prankster can't lurk around the victim 24/7, but that's okay - the victim is "just manifesting the first signs of their Talent," and thus erratic access to magic is the norm.

Posted by: Snow_Fox Oct 29 2003, 03:55 PM

hermetics are easier to pick out than shamans because the good schools get testing, corp sonsored, to try and pick them out. another bit might be that a child reports seeing things that no one else can see, she's seeing the astral plane and becasue no one told her not everyone see's grandma sitting in her favoirte rocking chair after the funeral she doesn't mention it as odd. Once she starts hanging out with other kids who start to think she's a little wierd, they tell their parents or the teacher and word gets out that she can get checked.