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Posted by: djinni Jan 7 2007, 12:28 AM

no one else in the group has a combat skill above 2, so its my job to keep them safe, anything I've missed? or need to add?

Posted by: Slump Jan 7 2007, 12:46 AM

So let me get this straight: You have 70 bullets, including 10 tracers, but you have 34 guns?! You barely have two shots per gun!

Personally, I'd ditch some of those guns and pick up ammo by the pound.

Posted by: Jaid Jan 7 2007, 12:54 AM

you have 4 contact ratings, but 5 contacts shown.

you didn't include your augmented attributes.

your reaction (even the augmented part) is too low, imo. 4 dice on defense means they are just going to gun you down in a second. additionally, 3 body means 6 or less armor if you don't want to take penalties. similarly, with 3 willpower, you are going to be an easy target for a combat magician.

you have 3 fake licenses. what kind of licenses?

do you really need two of every gun, including guns which require 2 hands to use? and also including the guns you are not trained to use, and don't have any 'softs for? and also, keep in mind that your dice pool is already low in the first place. why are you blowing BP on ambidexterity? the *only* way a character with an attack skill DP this low should be using ambidex is to dual wield weapons with a single shot rate.

also, for all those guns you need bullets. note that you can have heavy pistol bullets that will work for all heavy pistols, but they don't go into your longarms, light pistols, SMGs, etc.

look closely at those skill groups. do you need at least 3 skills in the group? if not, drop down to 2, and save some BP. to be more specific: do you need industrial and nautical mechanic for the character to function? palming and shadowing? navigation, survival, tracking? instead, i would recommend you beef up your combat skill(s) (of which you should probably be fine with just two types of guns, and add in something melee... probably unarmed... if you feel you need more, get skillsofts. if nothing else, at least make it a skill group... )

with edge 6, do you really want to take unlucky?

also, i have to say, what the heck is this guy trying to do? does everyone else in the team suck at everything or something like that? you don't need to be able to handle every single situation at this point, and if you are supposed to do your job of protecting the squishy, then it really helps to not be squishy yourself.

you have skillwires but no activesofts. take some of those less used skills, turn them into softs, and save bigtime on BP.

seriously, my recommendation: start over from scratch. there isn't an awful lot salvageable from this guy. maybe the random gear list, just to save you the pain of adding it all up again, but otherwise, no. pick one or two areas of specialty, and do that.

and finally, i really can't tell: is this a joke post? i am really having a hard time seeing someone posting this as a combat monkey seriously...

Posted by: Serbitar Jan 7 2007, 12:56 AM

Is this some kind of low level group?

If you are the SAM of the group, this is very weak.

Edit: What Jaid said.

Posted by: djinni Jan 7 2007, 01:22 AM

Posted by: Serbitar Jan 7 2007, 01:28 AM

Start to skipp ALL your rating 1 skills and buy activesoft for it. Do the math, its MUCH cheaper.

Posted by: Jaid Jan 7 2007, 01:51 AM

...

you mean 12 dice to attack with? unless you're expecting 6 dice out of that machine sprite... note, a rating 6 sprite rolls 12 dice, the number of hits is the bonus you get. expect maybe 4 more.

5 agility, 3 skill, 2 specialisation (assuming it is one of the semi-auto guns), smartlink 2. that's 12. i can make a chargen drone with a dicepool almost that good, except that it gets to take 3 IPs, can shoot and dodge in the same turn, 'runs' faster, can take more of a beating, and is immune to stun and mana spells.

full dodge at 9 is weak. the main problem is that you only have 2 IPs. you aren't going to outlast anyone, because they can use a combat drug and have as many IPs as you... which means that you can either spend your two IPs dodging and not attacking while the rest of the team dies, or you can stand there and die in IP1 while the rest of your team dies.

if you really want to be the combat monkey of the group, you are going to need 3 IPs, reaction of at least 6 (more is safer), a dodge skill of around 4 (gymnastics 4 would work fine... add in synthacardium too, imo, since the athletics group is handy to get a bonus to anyways), probably grab at least a couple of reflex recorders (in your case, gymnastics and pistols i suppose, plus maybe a couple more... maybe firearms and athletics even), a pistol skill of at least 4 plus a specialisation, (5 would be better), body of at least 4 (you need that extra armor), and some more stat boosting 'ware. consider that you have just stated that you are the *only* combat capability the group has, pretty much. for under 20k i could make a drone to replace you, and the drone would be easier to replace. (and easier to get more of, for that matter). in fact, not only could the drone replace you, i could also make it fly, and shoot heavy weaponry to provide AOE support (another area you are lacking in, btw... no ability to use grenades, and your group has no mage).

now then, continuing on.

if all your face can do is talk to people, then kick him in his face and tell him to do something. it doesn't take 400 BP to make even an obscenely good face. tell him to pick up some slack. if he's an adept face, then tell him to put a few spare points into something useful in combat... or at least, have a contact from which you can hire expendable muscle. preferably the kind that doesn't mind dying.

also, tell your rigger to fix his own bloody vehicles. that's 10 BP you've spent being able to fix stuff, when it shouldn't be your job. if we were at least talking about something B&E-ish (like hardware) i could understand that, but the mechanical skill group? at most, this should be a skillsoft. also, tell him to invest some money in telepresence... ie, buy some fragging drones. you can get by with that as your muscle, if and only if you have a lot of that. notice when i said it was about 20k to make a drone with an almost equal dice pool and better in most other ways? well tell him to invest some money in that.

your TM, at least, has some excuse. specifically, he's a TM. which just means he's gonna be hurting all over, no matter what he does pretty much. heck, if anyone should be cowering in the armor 20 vehicle, it's him, not your rigger. except the armor won't help him in cybercombat, of course, which leaves him still screwed over.

seriously, if you replace those skills with activesofts, you will find that a rating 3 activesoft costs under 2 BP. so, a rating 3 skill for 2 BP versus a rating 3 skill for 12 BP. you can't afford *not* to buy activesofts, is what you should be saying. if you really, really feel you need it, start with a high lifestyle, put some money into starting cash, and you should come out with enough to buy a rating 3 skillsoft. which means that, halfway through a run, if you suddenly realise you need a given activesoft, you go buy it, download it, and a whole 3 seconds or less later, you have the skill you need.

Posted by: Serbitar Jan 7 2007, 01:58 AM

well, again, what jaid said.

Posted by: Jaid Jan 7 2007, 02:33 AM

just to make the point, i am going to now do a quick sammy build. just to play nice, i'll even go human. (ork is much better though)

bod 4 (30 BP)
str 1(3) (0 BP)
agi 5(7) (40 BP)
rea 5(7) (40 BP)
log 2 (10 BP)
int 3 (20 BP)
cha 2 (10 BP)
wil 4 (30 BP)

(180 BP total)

edge 5 (40 BP)
essence 2.22 (1.8 essence bioware, 2.88 essence cyberware)

(220 BP total)

Magic Resistance 4 (20 BP) (*no mage = no counterspelling to keep you in a not dead state, this is very important)
allergy/addiction/Scorched/Sensitive Neural Structure/incompetence (any number of skills, use skillwires to compensate) etc for (-35 BP)

(205 BP)

Pistols (semi-automatic) 4 (+2) (18 BP)
Automatics (assault rifle) 5 (+2) (22 BP)
Heavy weapons (grenade launchers) 3 (+2) (14 BP)
gymnastics 4 (16 BP)
Infiltration 4 (16 BP)
Disguise 2 (8 BP)
Con 2 (8 BP)
Etiquette 2 (8 BP)
perception (visual) 2 (10 BP)

(325 BP total)


alpha wired reflexes 2 (12.8 BP)
alpha skillwires 3 (2.4 BP)

muscle toner 2 + muscle augmentation 2 (6 BP)
Synthacardium 3 (6 BP)
platelet factories (5 BP)
reflex recorder (automatics) (2 BP)
reflex recorder (heavy weapons) (2 BP)
pain editor (8 BP)

(up to 6.2 BP remaining for gear, or 32,000 )

(359-365 BP spent)

(35-41 BP remaining for whatever you want that isn't directly related to killing stuff.)

now then, you've got 17 dice before sprite for assault rifles, 15 with pistols and grenade launchers (i recommend an ares alpha)
you've got 7 dice on defense, and 14 dice on full defense.

you've got 3 IPs, which means you have more IPs than some chump with a dose of cram.

you can wear an armor jacket with no penalty.

you throw 8 dice to resist spells instead of 3, or 9 if you activate the pain editor, which also lets you ignore stun damage (ie, stunbolt is not going to instant kill you).

you still won't be able to pick up much in the way of activesofts, mind you, but you can always do the nuyen shuffle... you should have room in your essence for muscle replacement instead of bioware versions for example. [edit] in point of fact, you could even go with alpha muscle replacement and put your wired 3 to normal, freeing up 8.4 BP, or 5=42,000 ... enough to pick up a little tailored pheromones, up to rating 2 in fact, while leaving you a little spending money afterward. [/edit]

you are much less likely to get hit, and are likely to take a great deal less damage. you are resistant to magic (important, because you have no mage to counterspell), you can shoot like mad (without occupying the riggers machine sprite, which can run 14 dice on attack if you put it in a drone with a smartlinked gun turret while the drone drives/dodges, or 12 dice on dodge while the drone attacks with 10 dice, give or take.

Posted by: Ophis Jan 7 2007, 10:08 AM

Jaid - with being human for 40 Bp your edge should be 6.

Other than that that's what a sammie should look like.

Djinni - the main things your guy lacks is 1) decent skills (okay the appropriate level should be based on his BG) and 2) Muscle Toner the bonus agl is so useful it's compulsory for any sammie I build.

Posted by: Glyph Jan 7 2007, 10:58 AM

A few things popped out at me.

Skills -
Skillwires: 3 but still a lot of points wasted on low-rated skills that won't come up much. The whole point of skillwires is to be able to take your core skills at a high rating but still be able to effectively have lots of other lower-rated skills! Especially the mechanic skill group if one of the other players is a rigger. Too many skill groups. You don't need the stealth group - all a sammie will usually use is infiltration, and maybe shadowing. The influence group at 1 is okay, but the outdoor group should be on skillsofts. Also - no melee skills at all? Bad, especially since your gymnastics skill can only help you dodge ranged attacks. You should have a primary ranged skill at 6, a melee skill of 4, and a secondary ranged attack at 4, all with specializations. Finally, you have all of this senseware, but NO perception skill.

Attributes -
Reaction should be 5. Along with Body and Quickness, it is a very important Attribute for a sammie.

Qualities -
Blandness and Photographic Memory are better suited to characters such as faces or deckers. Ambidexterity is good, though. Bad Luck is a terrrible negative quality, though, especially for a combat-oriented character with a high Edge.

Cyberware and bioware -
I would ditch the expensive synaptic accelerator and enhanced articulation in favor of wired reflexes: 2 (alphaware) and muscle toner: 2, along with a reflex recorder or two for your main combat skill(s). With what you have saved here, you can get some more skillsofts.

Posted by: Grinder Jan 7 2007, 11:36 AM

Why I can see the idea of "Jack-of-all-Trades" here, it's too much - and really spread too thin. Get rid of all that rating-1-skills and concentrate on some.
And get Dodge as well as Perception!

Posted by: djinni Jan 7 2007, 11:51 AM

Posted by: Banaticus Jan 7 2007, 03:35 PM

Ok, let us know what the character looks like after the rebuild is done -- don't forget to give him good Body as well. Ork or especially troll (for the dermal armor, +1 reach for an extra die in all melee combat and increased Body/Strength) would likely be a better choice than human for a character like this.

Posted by: Squinky Jan 7 2007, 04:11 PM

Ork FTW. Troll not so much, unless you are really digging the idea. Sure they get crazy bonuses to body and strength, but as you can see from Jaid's example, the strength is not always needed. I personally prefer to make Trolls melee combat characters, because that is where their real strength is. The lost agility among other things can really suck for a gun sammy.

Beyond that, in Jaids example pain editors aren't available normally at chargen (wish they were).

Posted by: Jaid Jan 8 2007, 01:52 AM

Posted by: Kronk2 Jan 18 2007, 07:18 AM

2 things here:
1) how does a machine sprite add to the sams gun pool,
2) for the spreading it around gun thing, take firearms 4 24 bp for every gun skill out there. +2 for smartlink, and

Posted by: djinni Jan 18 2007, 09:06 AM

Posted by: Wakshaani Jan 18 2007, 12:42 PM

Also, there's this:

Posted by: lorechaser Jan 18 2007, 07:01 PM

Posted by: farlanghn Jan 18 2007, 08:37 PM

Posted by: djinni Jan 18 2007, 10:12 PM

Posted by: Fortune Jan 19 2007, 01:57 AM

Cybereye capacity is not necessarily compatible with all other capacity measurements, as in those for non-cyber devices or bodyware/cyberlimb capacity ratings.

Posted by: Sir_Psycho Jan 19 2007, 03:26 AM

You don't need that many guns. Starting a game, you shouldn't be focusing too much on paranoia. Seriously, get yourself a heavy pistol side-arm, ONE SMG, an assault if you want etc. But no doubles. Spend the resources on better bodyware, or chuck the points into attributes, you're painfully baseline.

Posted by: Arz Jan 19 2007, 03:40 PM

As to the skillwires argument, if your edge is high its often better to purchase those rating one skills so you can spend edge on the test. Just don't go hog wild since you only need to cover your sammei reserve skills. Other than that I have nothing to judge, since I just can't see the style only the stats.