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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ High-tech armor in the news
Posted by: Catharz Godfoot Jan 14 2007, 09:59 PM
[img]http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/images/hs/hs1558762_1.jpg[/img]
http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=hamilton/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1168470616997&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1014656511815
Right, so no image links. Anyway, it's basically 'comfortable' suit of armor with integreated pepper-spray, audio recording, and magnetic holsters, made out of ceramic and plastic/foam.
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 14 2007, 10:18 PM
Compared to his http://science.compulenta.ru/upload/iblock/a68f60b7a45f9ef1eac16c82b2a1ff28.jpg (Bear Protection Suit), it looks quite light. 
Posted by: Fortune Jan 14 2007, 10:26 PM
What the hell are you doing reading the 'Spec'? Damn, that kinda makes me homesick.
Oh, and the armor's cool.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 14 2007, 10:30 PM
...damn, the Packer's OL could use this stuff. Maybe a lighter version for Mr Farve...
All kidding aside...
Still looks a bit bulky but at 18 kilos (just under 40#) not as bad if the soldier is in excellent shape. My only concern is environmental, such as what the troops in Iraq are facing. I've spoken with people who were forced to wear hazmat gear in 100F+ heat. Not fun. This looks like it would be a bear (ok, bad pun intended) to walk around in during a Baghdad summer.
Posted by: Slump Jan 14 2007, 11:02 PM
Depending on the quality of the solar cells, it could be possible to mount a small AC unit that would at least keep the air inside the suit the same temperature as the air outside. At least, during the day it could.
Posted by: Thane36425 Jan 14 2007, 11:33 PM
Interesting. Looks like it would be hard to shoot while wearing it and ammo pouches would make movement difficult. Still, it won't take long for someone to develop bullets to penetrate it. Our Russian "allies" have already made and marketed bullets designed to penetrate the latest vests our troops are wearing. If nothing else, a 40mm grenade from your regular grenade launcher would chew it up, provided the suit offered a hard enough surface to make it detonate.
Posted by: Zen Shooter01 Jan 15 2007, 01:14 AM
You mean that if an infantryman takes a 40mm grenade in the chest while wearing this armor, he'll die? 
Posted by: Konsaki Jan 15 2007, 01:17 AM
| QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) |
| You mean that if an infantryman takes a 40mm grenade in the chest while wearing this armor, he'll die? |
But if he was naked, he wouldnt suffer a scratch... funny that.
Posted by: Mistwalker Jan 15 2007, 02:42 AM
Anything that has a chance of increasing survival rates in the field is worth looking at. With hard armor, and today's tech, you might be able to fit a lot of tech into the suit that wouldn't have worked a few years ago.
Even a cooling system isn't impossible. A biomonitor and an auto-medkit? Better vision uprades with HUD. Etc...
Posted by: RunnerPaul Jan 15 2007, 04:32 AM
I knew this guy would get around to the military applications of his bear suit research sooner or later. Actually seeing the end result though? Damn. He turned the Hollywood factor up to 11, but in this case, I think it's justifiable.
Posted by: Drraagh Jan 15 2007, 04:51 AM
Version 1.0 of your standard MJOLNIR battle armor, or pretty much any combat and/or space suit pictured in movies, tv or video games.
Posted by: emo samurai Jan 15 2007, 05:03 AM
If you make that with nanotube, then you maybe COULD stop a grenade.
Posted by: mfb Jan 15 2007, 05:19 AM
the biggest problem i see is that it's not smooth enough. walking through the bush, you're going to end up with all kinds of crap stuck in the crevices of your armor. looks cool, though.
Posted by: hobgoblin Jan 15 2007, 07:13 AM
hmm, kinda reminds me of a sci-fi show i used to watch...
and the intimidation factor alone would make it a nice sell to riot squads all over the world...
oh and mfb, i think its primary role is urban ops...
Posted by: Sir_Psycho Jan 15 2007, 07:35 AM
He's like a gear of war with a handlebar moustache!
Posted by: Mistwalker Jan 15 2007, 07:42 AM
If anyone picks up on his armor, I am sure that they will streamline it. Make it that much more useful in all environments.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 15 2007, 07:59 AM
| QUOTE (Thane36425) |
| Still, it won't take long for someone to develop bullets to penetrate it. Our Russian "allies" have already made and marketed bullets designed to penetrate the latest vests our troops are wearing. |
Any particular reason you think this provides better protection than an Interceptor vest with ESAPI plates? Seems more likely to me it's worse, at just 18 kilos and a ridiculously low price tag. I'd be surprised if it could reliably stop 7.62x51mm FMJs.
I have heard of 7.62x54mmR ammo that supposedly can penetrate the Interceptor + ESAPI, but I can't find hard data on anything that'd fit the bill. If 7N13 with its simple hardened steel core, a slight improvement over the .30-06 M2 AP round all level IV vests have to be able to stop and not quite in the same league as the 7.62x51mm M993, can manage it, that's just bad planning by the boys at Pentagon.
If this dude was at all serious about attracting the military, he would've made the prototype look a bit more like http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2004/2004072705b_hr.jpg, although it's a much better Halloween costume as it is.
Posted by: Drraagh Jan 15 2007, 08:48 AM
The thing with his prototype is it is more about the functionality that he has packed in there than the asthetics of it. The next few designs, assuming this gets picked up would be more streamlined, sure. That's because mostly of budget and more people working on it and so forth.
Let's look at the wearable computer industry. First off, it was like a guy walking around with a battery pack backpack, a hard drive strapped to his waist wearing a helmet and carrying a keyboard. Then we made smaller hard drives that didn't need as much power, displays that could be made into glasses, chord keyboarding, even voice commands. So, now, over let's say even the last 20 years, we've gone from needing backpacks and trenchcoats to carry a computer to at most needing a small fanny pack, a small eyedisplay and a microphone (or wireless keyboard/mouse/power glove).
Pretty soon it'll look like that, after all, didn't anyone see http://www.ghostrecon.com/ss/graw_art_03.jpg
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 15 2007, 09:50 AM
| QUOTE (Drraagh @ Jan 15 2007, 10:48 AM) |
| Pretty soon it'll look like that, after all, didn't anyone see http://www.ghostrecon.com/ss/graw_art_03.jpg |
http://cryeprecision.com/ is a real world company - look at AU's Picture.
Posted by: Cray74 Jan 15 2007, 01:07 PM
| QUOTE (Slump) |
| Depending on the quality of the solar cells, it could be possible to mount a small AC unit that would at least keep the air inside the suit the same temperature as the air outside. At least, during the day it could. |
http://www.aspensystems.com/pmicroclimate-systems.html
Man-scale portable air conditioning units do exist, and that Aspen Systems has produced a lunchbox-sized, hand-carried unit for the Eurofighter pilot suit (for use prior to plugging into cockpit cooling systems.) The bulk of the unit is the batteries - the current cooling systems are a small portion of the boxes you can see in the link above.
However, the power draw of ~100 watts (to generate the cited 300W of cooling) is a bit beyond solar panels you'd want to stick on a person - you'd need a good share of the body covered in high-efficiency solar arrays to continuously generate 100W.
In Shadowrun, you're better off with batteries or fuel cells. A setting with man-portable laser weapons has some damned good batteries, and by 2070 fuel cells should be able to deliver 100W in a pretty compact form.
Posted by: nezumi Jan 15 2007, 01:17 PM
At (this) $2k, (doesn't) anyone (belong) else (in) thinking (the) of (SR4) getting (forum) one (!) for (grrrr...) themselves? Could be fun!
(Living in the Socialist Republic of Maryland, where our God given right to defend ourselves with firearms is denied, but criminals do it anyway, darn those criminals, and one of the highest murder rates in the country, I think it'd make quite a statement riding to work on the metro, don't you?)
Posted by: Oracle Jan 15 2007, 01:56 PM
Criminals buy their guns in other states.
Posted by: Thane36425 Jan 15 2007, 03:47 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| At (this) $2k, (doesn't) anyone (belong) else (in) thinking (the) of (SR4) getting (forum) one (!) for (grrrr...) themselves? Could be fun! (Living in the Socialist Republic of Maryland, where our God given right to defend ourselves with firearms is denied, but criminals do it anyway, darn those criminals, and one of the highest murder rates in the country, I think it'd make quite a statement riding to work on the metro, don't you?) |
They'd probably just make a law making wearing armor illegal because it made you too hard for the criminals to rob.
Posted by: Thane36425 Jan 15 2007, 05:51 PM
| QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) |
| You mean that if an infantryman takes a 40mm grenade in the chest while wearing this armor, he'll die? |
I was referring to an HEDP round that can penetrate over 3 inches of steel. That, combined with the concussio of the blast would be rough. Those rounds do require a fairly solid surface to cause it to explode. So, it is possible that shooting a "naked" person with a 40mm grenade that it might not explode, not on impact but later when the self-destruct fuse detonates. There are other types of anti-armor warheads, like HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) which would be dangerous too.
The big problem here is that the grenade has a 15 yard or so safety before it even arms. The grenade is also slow with a high tradgectory. Combined that would make for a hard shot on a man sized target.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 15 2007, 07:30 PM
The impact fuzes of 40mm LV grenades should definitely be set off when they hit the chest of a human being. Otherwise they'd be utterly useless in a sandy environment or on softer turf, and would have a massive failure rate for long range fire.
The current US 40mm M433 HEDP fired from an M203 arms usually arms somewhere between 14 and 27 meters, the shaped charge nominally penetrates 50mm+ of armor steel (5 or more of the above suits front and back, if the jet didn't spread). There is no self destruct mechanism. It is certainly not designed for hitting people directly with, though at closer ranges it can be done.
Posted by: WhiskeyMac Jan 15 2007, 11:55 PM
I could see CorpSec using that suit for the intimidation factor. Looks pretty sweet.
Posted by: Strobe Jan 16 2007, 12:31 AM
| QUOTE (Thane36425) |
| They'd probably just make a law making wearing armor illegal because it made you too hard for the criminals to rob. |
I think here in Australia is /is/ illegal to wear body armour. I seem to remember a bill board with all the restricted things on them in silhouette with guns and clubs and thing. I'm fairly sure it had a bulletproof vest type thing on it.
-Strobe
Posted by: Sir_Psycho Jan 16 2007, 12:37 AM
Yeah I saw that too, I laughed that there was a "no crossbows" section. No shit.
Posted by: Konsaki Jan 16 2007, 12:41 AM
Was there a boomerang or a slingshot on the billboard?
Posted by: Strobe Jan 16 2007, 12:54 AM
| QUOTE (Sir_Psycho) |
| Yeah I saw that too, I laughed that there was a "no crossbows" section. No shit. |
Crossbows have a huge restriction in this country. You can't have one that you can raise and fire with one hand/arm. You need a gun license to have one and you must shoot in a club or competition every so often (I think it might be once every 12 months).
Also I don't think there were any boomerangs on the sign. Almost every tourist ends up with one and they go through airports fine so they are probably ok.
-Strobe
Posted by: nezumi Jan 16 2007, 01:24 AM
As an aside, a friend and I were discussing medieval weapons here in the US. I'm not aware of any laws restricting carrying them around in public. I'm thinking of eventually mounting a ballista on my roof too. I think that'd be fun. I wonder if that high-tech armor would resist an eight foot long bolt.
Posted by: Strobe Jan 16 2007, 01:39 AM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| As an aside, a friend and I were discussing medieval weapons here in the US. I'm not aware of any laws restricting carrying them around in public. I'm thinking of eventually mounting a ballista on my roof too. I think that'd be fun. I wonder if that high-tech armor would resist an eight foot long bolt. |
Our government doesn't like that either. Medieval weapons (and replicas) need you to be a member of a club and have a license for at least in some states.
-Strobe
Posted by: Sir_Psycho Jan 16 2007, 01:47 AM
At a local park there is some guys here in sydney who dress up in knights armor and battle eachother with swords and shields.
Posted by: WhiskeyMac Jan 16 2007, 03:42 AM
I live in Arizona. Everybody could be Wyatt Earp down here and as long as it isn't concealed then it's legal. You can walk around with a broadsword on your back and can have a Glock strapped on your leg within the law. However, depending on the people around you (damn Californians are infiltrating our state acting stupid), you might have the cops called on you and get hassled. We also got some medieval recreators down here too. I use to be one. It's pretty fun.
Posted by: Thane36425 Jan 16 2007, 04:01 AM
Technically you can openly carry weapons in Virginia and Alabama, but you really get weird looks at best and people freaking out at worst. So, it really isn't in you best interest to do that except on your own property.
Back to the topic, but along the same lines, there is no law against body armor either. However, just like openly carried weapons, actually wearing the stuff would bring the wrong kind of attention.
Posted by: Kesslan Jan 16 2007, 06:21 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| The impact fuzes of 40mm LV grenades should definitely be set off when they hit the chest of a human being. Otherwise they'd be utterly useless in a sandy environment or on softer turf, and would have a massive failure rate for long range fire. The current US 40mm M433 HEDP fired from an M203 arms usually arms somewhere between 14 and 27 meters, the shaped charge nominally penetrates 50mm+ of armor steel (5 or more of the above suits front and back, if the jet didn't spread). There is no self destruct mechanism. It is certainly not designed for hitting people directly with, though at closer ranges it can be done. |
Yeah, and, I dont have any clue how 'realistic' things are in Americas army. But it did make me wonder when I played AA. Once, out of pure despiration (my gun jammed on me mid fire fight. And it takes a while to clear a jam in AA) I just switched to GL and blasted a guy pretty much point blank. Course the grenade didnt explode. But it DID kill him. Assumably due to the force of impact to the chest.
Ahh. that game was fun.. for a while. Then the sameness just got terribly dull and boring.
Posted by: hobgoblin Jan 16 2007, 07:30 AM
| QUOTE |
| Ahh. that game was fun.. for a while. Then the sameness just got terribly dull and boring. |
welcome to the army
Posted by: Kesslan Jan 16 2007, 07:45 AM
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) | ||
welcome to the army |
Oh I dont know. Sure alot of it would be quite boring. I mean I -did- spend over 3 years working nights as a security guard for several companies. So I definately know boring allright. 12hr shifts, nothing going on. Same place, every day... and your not allowed to read, listen to the radio, chatting with others is discouraged etc.
God am I ever glad to be away from all that. But the thing is with the army you can at least see other places. I think if I ever joined up though I'd stick with the reserves. That way I could actually volunteer to go some places. And short of an actual all out war. I wouldnt wind up stuck in the same place endlessly for years on end with no real option to go anywhere else...
I think?
Posted by: Trax Jan 18 2007, 09:17 PM
If you decide to join the reserves, join 30th Field RCA here in Ottawa. That way I'll have someone to talk to about Shadowrun. Unless you want to go wear a skirt with the Camerons.
Not to mention unlike the other units the Artillery practices with live ammunition all the time on the guns, using only blanks for salutes. Although the uninformed public always seems to think that we are actually going to fire into Quebec...
Posted by: Penta Jan 19 2007, 02:39 AM
Perhaps because many would not mind were you to do so?
Posted by: Kesslan Jan 19 2007, 08:02 AM
| QUOTE (Trax) |
| If you decide to join the reserves, join 30th Field RCA here in Ottawa. That way I'll have someone to talk to about Shadowrun. Unless you want to go wear a skirt with the Camerons. Not to mention unlike the other units the Artillery practices with live ammunition all the time on the guns, using only blanks for salutes. Although the uninformed public always seems to think that we are actually going to fire into Quebec... |
To answer Penta's Question first:
Damn sepreatists! They SHOULD be fired uppon!
Well ok I dont -really- think like that... all the time. Though I do hate about 40% of french speaking Quebecers I run into because so many of them pull this elitist bullshit. I mean they have LANGUAGE POLICE for crying out loud. Thats so... facist? I'm not sure what the proper word would be for that kinda crap.
Heh as for joining the Reserves. Ehh.. I dunno I looked at it. Camerons has at least some of the fields I'd want to get into. I'm not much of an Artillery type myself. I suck at math for starters so unless I had some one telling me what angle to put the gun at etc I'd litterally be eyeballing it and making edumacated guesses as to the proper angle to fire it at.
Though either way. If I did go for the reserves I'd seriously have to get my fattening ass back into shape again. And... I'm really too lazy to do it by myself. I dont like going to the gym and what not alone. I get too bored too damn fast. And none of my friends are the sort to go with me. Sides I dont -really- know what I'm doing beyond a few basic warmups etc and the odd bits I learned when my folks used to make me take Tae-Kwon-Do lessons. ANd personally I'd have prefered something much 'cooler' such as Akido or Jujitsu or some such. Oh well. Money is abit of an issue too. But it's mostly the boredom. That and it would take me at least a good solid year of excersise to get back into shape I think. ANd endurance runs are allways goign to be abit of an issue. I'm the sprinter type. Even when I was at my peak I couldnt run as long as most people could. But for that period of time I could run considerably faster than they could. So I'm not really sure how that would work out. Otherwise I think I"d long ago have signed up.
Course then there's the whole army owning a piece of your ass thing too. I'm not so hot on that little part. Though I really think it would be an overall 'positive' experience. And people like drill seargents yelling at me and giving me shit wouldnt bother me too much. Like my sister who joined the Navy said to one of her drill Seargents back in the days when she was still a cadet. "Oh.. my mother's MUCH worse than you."
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 19 2007, 09:35 AM
| QUOTE (Kesslan @ Jan 16 2007, 09:45 AM) |
| I wouldnt wind up stuck in the same place endlessly for years on end with no real option to go anywhere else... I think? |
Sure. You just have to survive until election day.
Posted by: Kesslan Jan 19 2007, 09:56 AM
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||
Sure. You just have to survive until election day. |
Eh election day has nothing to do with it. You volunteer to go various places for a tour. Each tour lasts X ammount of time. You may get ALOT of pressure to sign up for another tour sure. But in the end they cant at least legally force you to stay there without actually delcaring a war when your a reservist.
And if they try that there's usally pretty easy ways of leaking the info to the press. And you'd definatley not be the only one wanting to go home when your tour is done. You upset enough troops to a big enough degree and they WILL turn on you. It's happened before, it'll happen again.
That of course doenst help you if your the exception to the rule. Though Its definately true that some people signing up for the miltiary dont really know what the hell their getting into. There was yet another recent article in the newspaper about our troops in Afghanistan. And how alot of recent recruits wanted to go over to Afghanistan to help but they 'didnt want a fighting position'. Well umm. Guys? Army. What does the army do? Fight.
Sure you can be rear echalon but if yoru an infantry trooper and go over there you ARE going to have to eventually go somewhere where people will probably shoot at you. If you cant stand that idea... you should have signed up in the first place for that kind of job. And if you didnt know that could happen. Thats really your own fault. They dont exactly hide the fact that as a soldier its your job some times to shoot at. And in shooting at others that you will be shot at in turn. If you dont catch on somewhere in basic training where their teaching you how to survive attacks and how to kill other people... then. Man.. I just dont know how you surive going out your door in the morning much less the act of turning on the TV every day.
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 19 2007, 10:13 AM
| QUOTE (Kesslan) |
| Eh election day has nothing to do with it. You volunteer to go various places for a tour. |
The problem is that some people don't end up where they wanted to go.
| QUOTE (Kesslan) |
| But in the end they cant at least legally force you to stay there without actually delcaring a war when your a reservist. |
See the point?
Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2007, 10:16 AM
| QUOTE (Kesslan) |
| But in the end they cant at least legally force you to stay there without actually delcaring a war when your a reservist. |
they can for at least three months. it's called "stop-loss". doesn't require a declaration of war.
Posted by: Kesslan Jan 19 2007, 10:18 AM
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||||
The problem is that some people don't end up where they wanted to go.
See the point? |
Yeah but if you sign up as a reservist you damn well should expect the -possiblity- of that happening. I at least completely realize that if I wind up joining the military I'm effectively signing my life away for a while. Or at least a good part of it. In the end even if I did wind up in some boring place for a few years. Been there. Done that kinda thing. Bordom alone wont kill me. The degree I go to to relieve that bordom on the other hand.....
Posted by: Trax Jan 19 2007, 07:37 PM
On the guns you are told by the Command post exactly what angle, bearing, and elevation to use. You only use math as a Tech with Recce or the CP.
Starting soon the military will now take people even if they are out of shape, on the condition that when you join you GET into shape.
Hell, I've been in for about 6 years now. I suck at long distance marching, there are some things I just cannot carry for a long time, and I can't run. Hell, I failed the aptitude test by about 2 points or so, and they still let me in.
Back on topic...
The armour looks cool, I sure would like to see what will happen. Although we probably won't see it in use (if picked up) for another 10+ years probably, and us poor reservists won't get to use it. 
Posted by: Kesslan Jan 20 2007, 04:33 AM
| QUOTE (Trax) |
| On the guns you are told by the Command post exactly what angle, bearing, and elevation to use. You only use math as a Tech with Recce or the CP. Starting soon the military will now take people even if they are out of shape, on the condition that when you join you GET into shape. Hell, I've been in for about 6 years now. I suck at long distance marching, there are some things I just cannot carry for a long time, and I can't run. Hell, I failed the aptitude test by about 2 points or so, and they still let me in. Back on topic... The armour looks cool, I sure would like to see what will happen. Although we probably won't see it in use (if picked up) for another 10+ years probably, and us poor reservists won't get to use it. |
My god their really getting that desperate for people these days? Damn.
As for the armor. I dunno. Dont the reservists now also have the new camos? Or is that -still- dragging out?
I mean yeah the reserves get the hand-me-downs first. But it usually works its way down the chain. Course a total lack of replacements wouldnt supprise me either when it comes to the Canadian military. Good ol' goverment has been letting our military slide further and further into the crapper gear wise for years. Meanwhile we have PMs buying 3 new jets for their private fleet they dont need and such.
As to the estimate of 10+ years, I'd really probably shoot at 20-30+ for it to be fairly common. Keep in mind most militaries do it on the cheap. Why spend $40k on a single soldier just so he can have a few extra nifty toys when you can spend $40k on two soldiers who are only slightly less well equipped?
Posted by: Trax Jan 20 2007, 06:45 AM
We finally got the CADPAD uniforms 3 years ago. And recently replaced the IECS winter gear with CADPAD gear as well, except for the parka for some reason. Apparently the wool toque is going to be replaced by a fleece one.
We even got a set of ballistic eyewear that we are supposed to use when shooting our rifles now, stupid reason as far as I'm concerned, but these things are GREAT! I wear them all the time when I go outside, and I'm no longer getting poked in the eye when I walk in the woods...although my groin still remains unprotected...
We've gotten a lot of new stuff lately in gear, and very good as well.
Posted by: Kesslan Jan 20 2007, 06:52 AM
Hmm glad to see that the long overdue increases to the military budget are going to good use then. Now if only they'd replace those damn Sea Kings before another one falls out of the air. Or have they finally gotten aroudn to doing that too? God knows thats been delayed far, far too long.
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