Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Demerzel Jan 19 2007, 06:50 PM

An astral ward has a link to its creator. In SM p124 it indicates you could use astral tracking to follow the link to its creator so you can use your masking to fool the ward to let you through. So it exists. This makes me think there must be only one owner of a ward, so if two or more people worked cooperatively to create the ward only the primary owns it and receives warnings when it is broken etc.

Question 1:

If someone performs the warding ritual to extend the life of the ward does the owner remain the same or switch to the new person who extended the ward. This would make sense, or else you could just take over wards. But then again the time it takes to do the ritual may mean that it is acceptable to allow this, and won’t break the usefulness of wards. It makes sense to me that the owner changes since if you’re the one who channeled new mana into the ward it’s you it will be astrally connected to.

Question 2:

If you order a spirit to create a ward could someone perform a metaplanar quest following the astral link in order to find the spirit, take control of it and change the entire set of pass through rights on the ward? Not like it’d happen often, but it seems that using spirits so you can’t be astrally tracked with the ward as the source of the link has a lot of advantages, perhaps this is a disadvantage, along with the lack of notification etc.

Question 3:

Does ward creation and the subsequent taking drain count as a service spirits abhor and will anger them? It seems like you’re forcing the spirit to take damage, but then again spirits are asked to materialize and take damage regularly and this is not seen as an abuse. However if you were using your own spirits for target practice it would be abuse.

Question 4:

Does a ward carry the creator’s astral signature? That’s definitely a yes, however can that signature be erased prior to the ward collapsing? A signature lasts for a number of hours equal to the force of the effect that created it, does that mean a Ward is a constant source of signature that is constantly being created so it cannot be erased until the ward is gone? Or is the source of the signature the use of the power and that fades fast.

The astral signature description says, “Magical skills and abilities produce an astral signature on anything affected by them.” Does that mean the signature is created by the use of astral perception, which is the ability used to create a ward, and it starts fading after the ability was used. The rule states that the signature lasts a number of hours equal to force after the effect ends. So the ward is the effect and the signature lasts for force hours past the end of the effect, is that unless erased? Does a permanent spell like heal leave permanent signatures on the targets?

What do you think?

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2007, 07:08 PM

I think these questions are harder than your other post.
I'm willing to answer question #4 now, though. I say signature is constantly created as long as the magical effect is there. So it won't fade away from the ward. Similarly, a force 3 spell that is sustained for 5 hours will still take 3 hours to fade after the spell is dropped, not from the time of casting.
For #3 I'd say it's the same as spellcasting. Normal spellcasting with normal drain is a service per spell, but not abusive. Forcing them to overcast is possible, but is abusive and possible grounds for spirit bane. I'm a little fuzzy on the ward creation rules, though, so I don't remember if the overcasting thing even applies.
#2 sounds plausible, I guess. Good question, though.
#1 has me scratching my head. I'll have to think about that for a while.

Posted by: HappyDaze Jan 19 2007, 07:36 PM

For #1 I'd suggest that only the magician that made the ward can extend it. For any other magician, you have to drop it and put up a new one. This avoids having to answer the question in the first place, and makes it so that long term contracts with ward providers is a good investment.

Posted by: Dashifen Jan 19 2007, 07:48 PM

1. I agree with you. If you perform a ritual to extend the life of a ward then you are the new owner of said ward for pass-through and warning rights. The original owner could come by later and perform a similar ritual and then he/she would once again own it. My reasoning matches yours: the most recent person (or spirit) to channel mana into a ward is the owner.
   
2. I like it. Again, it's not going to happen much, but it should be possible to do this if a person really wants to hijack whatever the GM had planned to insert some random metaplanar quest into the session!
   
3. I think this one would depend on the spirit. Task spirits may not mind because setting up a ward is a type of task (not exactly what the designers may have intended, but Task spirits -- or Taskers as they've become known to me -- tend to be more subservient in my games). Guardian spirits would see a ward as a tactical advantage for defensive purposes and problem not mind much either. For the others, though, it might be abusive if you did it frequently, or forced them to produce high Force wards. And, if you're doing it to ward you bathroom so no one peeks at you reading Playtroll, then the spirits are probably smart enough to realize that the request is pretty stupid and they'll begin to grumble.
   
4. The ward is the effect, so a signature will last for Force hours after the ward collapses and will be available to those who assense the ward during its existence as well.

Posted by: Serbitar Jan 19 2007, 07:51 PM

My answers:

Q1:
The owner remains

Q2:
Yes, why not

Q3:
Depends on the Spirits and is totally up to GM

Q4:
yes and it is not eraseable prior to destruction of the ward

Posted by: Cheops Jan 19 2007, 09:41 PM

So how about a new type of Ward?

Traceless Ward

Works exactly like an Alarm ward except that it has been created in such a way that it does not link to the mage who created it nor does it carry his signature. Astrally the ward looks like an independent magical entity with strength equal to its force. Requires Filtering to create.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2007, 09:44 PM

Cheops, I like that very much, except I think there should be a downside. Such as, the creator does not know when the ward is damaged.

Posted by: Demerzel Jan 19 2007, 09:45 PM

I would say if it were indepenadant and untraceable it would lake the link necessary to inform the ward owner of a breech, as such being like an alarm ward wouldn't be very useful.

Following the idea, at best you would use the technique to make an ownerless ward, that is untracable, but you'd have no personal rights over it as well. That may be overpowered as astrally tracability is a major drawback to warding.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2007, 09:49 PM

I'm not sure if it'd be that overpowered. The person would be able to smash it down without you knowing, or manabolt it, or hit it with a ghoul, plus I would also rule that anyone who has the ability to spoof through a ward normally can do it to this one without having to sense your aura. And it does require an uncommon metamagic. All that adds up to a lot of rebalancing. I think it's a neat idea.
Although, now that I think about it, requiring filtering is a little weird. I mean, I see the logic, but I wonder if something like Flux might be more appropriate.

Posted by: Aaron Jan 19 2007, 10:25 PM

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2007, 10:30 PM