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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Data Havens/Message Boards as a Contact

Posted by: Unarmed Jan 23 2007, 12:38 AM

I'm currently playing a hacker adept in a PnP game, and I decided that he's the system administrator for a data haven that caters to shadowrunning magicians. I wanted to take the data haven as a contact, so that it can have some kind of relevance on my actual character outside of roleplaying, but I'm really not sure what kind of connection and influence ratings would be relevant for something like this.

I mean, it has the potential to be staggeringly useful given the amount of people that might frequent it, but at the same time, it's not nearly as confidential as just attempting to get information from one person.

Posted by: Large Mike Jan 23 2007, 12:44 AM

Really, Connection would essentially represent the signal-to-noise ratio of the board, so it's not out of the question to have it at any of the applicable Connection ratings.

Posted by: Cheops Jan 23 2007, 12:44 AM

In SR3 data havens were considered a rating 2 contact which was the middle value contacts could have. Equivalently it would be 3/3.

However, in SR4 it certainly seems like you could have data havens et al at different levels than that. I'd think of the ratings this way:

Connection: a rough estimate of membership, the connections of that membership, quality of the information, and the relevance/ease of using that information.

Loyalty: a measure of how involved you are in the data haven. A 1 might indicate membership while a 6 would mean sysop level. Could also reflect what people on the board are willing to do for you.

These ratings could be at any level and could be capped. So if you are starting a new BBS it might begin with Connection 1 and slowly build up to 6. As an admin you'd have rating 5 or 6 loyalty (DS admins can argue how loyal DS posters are). Alternatively, if you are a member of an established BBS you could begin as a regular member (loyalty 1) and slowly role-play your way up to admin (6).

Posted by: Mistwalker Jan 23 2007, 03:02 AM

Or, to make things interesting, roll D6 for connection for each subject searched, every search. This variable is caused by conflicting information on the data haven, and is what you believe to be accurate.

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jan 23 2007, 03:10 AM

Loyalty should be inverse of the connection.

Let's say you have a data haven and you only use it for your team. Barring extraordinary betrayal, the Loyalty rating would be an *, because there's no chance of anything getting out.

Say you expand it and give access to your girlfriend's team? Now it becomes 6; they may not know you in person, but hey, you're their teammate's team. Frag with you is fragging with her.

Now let's say you expand it more, to say, the level of exclusivity that belongs to Fastjack's personal data haven? Loyalty 5; Less personal relationships, though they're still present.

Then go all the way down to rating 0, which is Dumpshock. It's a publicly-accessable, not-exactly-hidden BBS, that anyone can browse without joining. Any fed or slimeball can log on and noodle through the threads, so there's no loyalty. The information is freely available.

Posted by: mfb Jan 23 2007, 03:24 AM

i dunno. what if you've got several members of your exclusive data haven who have high-level connections to insider information? that would raise your connection level without decreasing your loyalty.

Posted by: SL James Jan 23 2007, 03:30 AM

Quiet you. Don't you know logic has no place here?

Posted by: cetiah Jan 23 2007, 04:15 AM

Loyalty seems the likelihood to get any decent responses from people helping you out. Connections represent how useful those responses are. Just like with most contacts.

I think the high amount of information that you can get from a data haven is balanced out by the fact that you can't use it for resources (fence my gear, patch me up, loan me gear, get me out of jail, etc.).

I've always allowed organizations as contacts, and my first PC was a conspiracy theorist who relied on using data havens contacts and Computer (Search) to uncover sensitive information without having to resort to hacking. It works alright.

It helps to have a strong theme with your board, of course, but I think you do.

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jan 23 2007, 04:44 AM

QUOTE (mfb)

Because those would be better represented as individuals in their own right.

Posted by: cetiah Jan 23 2007, 04:45 AM

Alternatively, you can spend 7 BP and buy a 'dynamic data haven', re-rolling your Connections and Loyalty scores each day with a d6 roll.

Posted by: Unarmed Jan 23 2007, 05:00 PM

QUOTE (cetiah)

I think the high amount of information that you can get from a data haven is balanced out by the fact that you can't use it for resources (fence my gear, patch me up, loan me gear, get me out of jail, etc.).

If you knew the people on the data haven well enough, couldn't you theoretically use it for those things? I guess that once again if you were getting actual services from people that would be better served as individual contacts.

Posted by: Cheops Jan 23 2007, 05:29 PM

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)

QUOTE (mfb @ Jan 22 2007, 11:24 PM)

Because those would be better represented as individuals in their own right.

Only if you were trying to use them for something other than information.

Posted by: cetiah Jan 23 2007, 07:50 PM

QUOTE (Unarmed)

QUOTE (cetiah @ Jan 22 2007, 11:15 PM)

See the moment you start saying "from people", you're not really talking about the data haven / forum board anymore are you? I mean, if I post a message saying "Somone tell me the caliber of an Ares Predator!!! HELP!!!", then that's using the forum and who knows what kind of responses I could get or when.

But if I send a message to the forum/haven saying "Cetiah, tell me the caliber of an Ares Predator. I'm your buddy!!!" then in this case "Cetiah" is the contact and the forum is just our medium of communication.

The very definition of the data haven as a contact is that the free exchange of information is pretty much an entity in its own right. Forums have their own rules, needs, desires, temprements, strengths, weaknesses.

Here's some more food for thought... we could have two accounts on the same forum, but depending on who posts the request for help, we get very different responses thus having the same contact but different stats.

Posted by: Unarmed Jan 23 2007, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (cetiah)

QUOTE (Unarmed @ Jan 23 2007, 12:00 PM)

QUOTE (cetiah @ Jan 22 2007, 11:15 PM)

Indeed, but what happens if, as in the case that I posted about earlier, I am aware that there are a number of magicians that frequent said data haven, and I make a general post saying that I am in need of magical healing, and hope that one of them comes through. Yeah, I would eventually (maybe) be recieving a service from an individual, but I'm not being picky as to which individual I'd be recieving it from.

Of course, this kind of thing is not going to be all that confidential, so that's a big danger about using the data haven for this kind of communication.

Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Jan 23 2007, 08:23 PM

Wouldn't increasing the "loyalty" of a message board be equivalent to lowering the old "grapevine" penalty? (you know - where the more the query gets handed around the more likely that other interested parties (competitors, targets, whatever) notice)

Posted by: cetiah Jan 23 2007, 09:16 PM

Unarmed:

That would be odd. I mean... how would that work. You request a "favor" from the forum and now you owe the forum a favor sometime?

I would assume most members of the data haven to be strictly dedicated to exchanging data, sharing ideas, and maintaining anonymity. I would not allow one of my players to use their Data Haven (Magical Community) contact to request magical healing, but they might be able to refer him to a decent healer who could suit his needs (friend of a friend?). The Negotiation to get the information from the Data Haven will be completely different than the Negotiation to get magical services from the healer.

Unarmed and Mr. Unpronounceable:

Also, as I don't really like "punishing" players for their BP/Karma choices so, once I've allowed it, I don't feel there's any reason to make the Data Haven more likely to "betray" the runner. (At least no more so than any other contact.)

I tend to think of the havens as having top of the line hardware, exclusive clientelle, strict membership guidelines and rules that promote everyone's anonomity and keep the Data Haven itself a secret. I think it would be anonymous, confidential, and trustworthy, however little that might make sense otherwise.

Posted by: Unarmed Jan 23 2007, 09:23 PM

QUOTE (cetiah)

Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. You're not actually getting healed by the data haven, after all.

Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Jan 23 2007, 10:18 PM

QUOTE (cetiah)

Unarmed and Mr. Unpronounceable:

Also, as I don't really like "punishing" players for their BP/Karma choices so, once I've allowed it, I don't feel there's any reason to make the Data Haven more likely to "betray" the runner. (At least no more so than any other contact.)

What punish?

It's effectively the same risk posed with any contact - only distributed.

That's why there's a loyalty rating to begin with:

QUOTE (SR4 pg. 278)

The Loyalty rating is usually applied as bonus dice whenever the character is negotiating with the contact. It may also serve as modifier or threshold whenever a third party attempts to squeeze information about the runners out of the contact.

i.e. a loyalty rating for a board is how well it actually accomplishes the following:

QUOTE (cetiah)

I tend to think of the havens as having top of the line hardware, exclusive clientelle, strict membership guidelines and rules that promote everyone's anonomity and keep the Data Haven itself a secret. I think it would be anonymous, confidential, and trustworthy, however little that might make sense otherwise.

Posted by: Cheops Jan 23 2007, 11:26 PM

QUOTE (cetiah @ Jan 23 2007, 09:16 PM)

Hopefully this is some of the fluff stuff that gets included in Unwired so we don't have to wait for Target: The Matrix again.

If you want to see what it is like in the SR world to have a data haven as a contact then that old SR3 book is the best resource for it. Just gaining access to data havens was a problem. Most of them were as secretive as the Freemasons. Typical stuff like you have to be vetted by a member before you can be considered for membership, etc.

Most data havens also had chokepoints that had ice as black as most corporate mainframes. It wasn't easy getting in, especially since most users were qualified hackers and would kick the hoop of anyone who raised drek on the boards. They weren't at all anything like RL boards (such as Dumpshock) where anyone can join.

Oh...one more thing. It was possible to owe favors to DHs in SR3. Basically the DH expected you to contribute something new to it periodically if the admins ask you to. Such as Cap Chaos getting DH members to write all his pieces for him. So you can request specific information but in the future the admin might request specific info from you.