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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Drones querying ID

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 25 2007, 02:57 PM

Okay, here's the situation I'm envisioning:

Someone is walking around in a big corporate enclave thing. Indoors, outdoors, it's not the point. The point is it's an area with authorized personnel only, either all the time or maybe just as an after-hours thing. A drone rolls up and queries their commlink or somehow verifies their identity. If they are "on the list" it moves on. If they're not it notifies security personnel who come to have a chat. If the person runs, or maybe if security already has an active alert going it opens fire with gel rounds and then waits for security personnel to show up.

My question is, how does this work, game mechanically, and how would it be beaten? Is it simply a user account linked to that commlink on their security network? If you hack the security network with security or better access can you add a user account and be in the clear? If a drone is interrogating you, can you spoof a command to just that one to get off the hook, but still have to worry about others? If it is just a commlink account, I suppose you'd need something to keep you from simply whacking the janitor and stuffing his 'link in your pocket.

What I am not looking for is a way to make this a 100% unbeatable security system with facial recognition, DNA scan, mind probe, and thor shots on stand-by. I also don't expect this to be the be-all and end-all of security. I'm just looking for a reasonable and cost-effective SR solution.

This seems like reasonably good, and very cheap security, I'm just looking for the crunchy bits that make it work.

Thanks.

Posted by: Serbitar Jan 25 2007, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Jan 25 2007, 03:57 PM)

My question is, how does this work, game mechanically, and how would it be beaten? Is it simply a user account linked to that commlink on their security network? If you hack the security network with security or better access can you add a user account and be in the clear? If a drone is interrogating you, can you spoof a command to just that one to get off the hook, but still have to worry about others? If it is just a commlink account, I suppose you'd need something to keep you from simply whacking the janitor and stuffing his 'link in your pocket.

What I am not looking for is a way to make this a 100% unbeatable security system with facial recognition, DNA scan, mind probe, and thor shots on stand-by. I also don't expect this to be the be-all and end-all of security. I'm just looking for a reasonable and cost-effective SR solution.

This seems like reasonably good, and very cheap security, I'm just looking for the crunchy bits that make it work.

Thanks.

I would say this works as an automatic login of the commlink to the security network (or the drone directly if you want to, but theres no need for that).
You beat it by hacking in manually and giving you the appropriate rights.
Spoofing a command will only help till the spoofed command is finished or overridden (which wont take long).

Furthermore: You dont even have to whack the janitor. just hack his commlink and retrieve the account data you need (if it is not hardwired, if it is, you have to whack him, just like stealing a pass key).
If you want to make security a little more tight, add a camera to the entry area and let the system compare the accounts picture to the guy entering the room. No more whacking then, only hacking the system.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 25 2007, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (Serbitar)

If you want to make security a little more tight, add a camera to the entry area and let the system compare the accounts picture to the guy entering the room. No more whacking then, only hacking the system.

Well, you could still whack, but you'd need a good disguise skill, preferably with some nanopaste and/or facial sculpt.

Good idea, though.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I was thinking that a spoofed command to the drone, something to the effect of "That guy is ok" would last as long as the drone was still in the area, but once that drone had lost sight of him and subsequently reaquired him they'd be back where they started.

Posted by: Serbitar Jan 25 2007, 03:19 PM

Well, I would say that "That guy is OK" is not an allowed spoofed command. At least in my world, you can only spoof "real action commands" like "kill him" or "go there".

"That guy is OK" is actually a system process thing. Otherwise you could spoof commands like "This is guy has admin rights".

So in my world, you could spoof "fly to the moon" and the drone would start to do so till some agent or hacker notices it and instructs the drone to do otherwise.]

Other question: What are the drones for, other than enforcement? You dont need drones to querry the comlink. The wireless network can do so.

Posted by: Dashifen Jan 25 2007, 03:21 PM

I usually put security of this type in embedded RFID chips. That way the janitor's commlink isn't even involved; it's the little thingy embedded in his forearm that's doing the identification. I think of it like an upgrade to the RFID chips that are attached to clothing and electronics in stores -- you take it through the door without scrapping the tag and the alarm goes off. Putting that in SR terms, the drone scans the janitor and sees the valid RFID chip in his forearm and determines that he can be there.

Thus, the runners then have a few options:

Hack the system to insert new RFID authentication records for chips they carry around.
Hack the drone so that the drone sees either their RFID chip or their lack of a RFID chip as authentic.
Get their hands on some valid RFID chips, which may or may not include the maiming or dismemberment of authorized personnel (poor janitors).

And, for extra fun, power the authorized RFID chips off of a biomonitor embedded in building personnel as well. Then, if the person dies, the biomonitor could detect this and tell the RFID chip to either (a) scrap itself or for more fun (B) tell the system about the compromised chip but leave it active. Then if the chip is ever seen again, the drones with guns show up and security is called

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 25 2007, 03:27 PM

QUOTE (Serbitar)

Yeah, "That guys is OK" was a bad example.

As for your other question: The drones are there for the shooting. I was thinking this would be in an outdoor environment where there won't be cameras covering every square inch, and I don't want them to be able to ignore the security by running their comms hidden and avoiding cameras.

Posted by: Serbitar Jan 25 2007, 03:43 PM

Looks good. Drones are far cheaper than even 10 Security guards (but hackable).

Posted by: mfb Jan 25 2007, 05:31 PM

i don't have SR4 handy, but here is how i'd do it. the drones would fly around the area at random. every person they see (or maybe every 5th or 10th person, depending on the amount of traffic expected and the number of drones available), they automatically scan for a commlink signal, sorting by triangulation--as the drone flies by, it scans for a signal twice, noting the vector of the signal each time; the point those vectors meet has to match within a quarter of a meter or so of the person the drone is watching. if there are multiple people tightly grouped, the drone can do multiple scanning flybys and/or share scan info with other drones to sort all of them out.

once they've found the commlink, they query it for account identification. if that matches, nothing happens. if not, or if no commlink is found (either they don't have one, or it's in hidden mode), the drone orders the suspect to freeze and calls for metahuman security.

the only part of that operation i'm not sure how to handle in the rules is the triangulation. i'm pretty sure there's a way to do that in SR4. if not, just call it 3 hits on an extended Matrix Perception test, or something. at the range the drones are working with, it shouldn't be too hard.

Posted by: Jack Kain Jan 25 2007, 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Serbitar)

Looks good. Drones are far cheaper than even 10 Security guards (but hackable).

Thats why you have a few security hackers ready to defend them. Slows down the PC's hacker/technomancer a few turns while the drone fires in full auto.

Posted by: cetiah Jan 25 2007, 08:14 PM

Comlinks are assumed to have built in "social networking" software that it broadcasts when you want it to, so that other users could see who you are, what interests you have, etc.

The employees in that system could be given an encrypted security packet that is attached to their social profile. Whenever the drone flies by, it reads the profile. It has the encryption "key" so reading the profile is no problem. The packet contains security authorization information about what areas they are allowed to be in, at what times, and what equipment they are authorized to use or carry.

I imagine licenses in SR4 work like this, too.

Alternativly, they could have a seperate "company profile" that their comlink sends out to any authorized drone that asks for it. I kind of like this idea better.

From the employee's perspective, all this happens in the background and he's not even aware of it unless he wants the comlink to inform him for some reason.

To be truly hassle-free, a hacker will have to hack a drone to get the encryption key. There's going to be copy-protection on it, so he'll have to defeat that first. Once he copies the key, he'll have to decrypt it. Now he can use his own encryption program to encrypt a security profile using the proper encryption key.

Since he doesn't have the logins/passwords to ask an employee's comlink for their security profile, he'll have to hack in and copy it. It probably won't be copy-protected. He'll have to decrypt it, edit it, and re-encrypt it using his encryption program and the security key he got from the drone.

Posted by: 2bit Jan 25 2007, 09:58 PM

I agree with Dashifen. Embedded security RFID tags are perfect for authorized personell only - corporate enclave areas. You can track everyone "on the list" in real time through your sensor network, and it's non-intrusive.

If some no good runner takes a corporate citizen hostage, his RFID tag allows the threat response team to do an instant cost analysis.

Posted by: Jaid Jan 25 2007, 11:34 PM

QUOTE (mfb)

the only part of that operation i'm not sure how to handle in the rules is the triangulation. i'm pretty sure there's a way to do that in SR4. if not, just call it 3 hits on an extended Matrix Perception test, or something. at the range the drones are working with, it shouldn't be too hard.

you mean something like some sort of scanning program, that scans through various signals and sorts them? we could call it scan

Posted by: celegar Jan 26 2007, 02:11 AM

QUOTE (Serbitar)

Looks good. Drones are far cheaper than even 10 Security guards (but hackable).

i know im not the first to say this and i wont be the last but it has to be said.

profit and power is more important to the corps than anything, including security and safety.

ser hit the nail on the head. sure the corps can afford to have an army or rotodrones and hackers on call at every site(that cost probubly wouldnt even dent their bottom line) but as we all know, savy buisnessmen like to "cut corners" when it comes to cost. if they can save a little cash then they will and only have like one spider in the system and just load him up with agents while pumping the drones full of IC.