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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ A few questions about drones

Posted by: Leehouse Feb 11 2007, 02:19 AM

Posted by: Thain Feb 11 2007, 04:04 AM

1.) Sensor packages, I'm assuming the drones start out with none of their capacity filled and it is the riggers job to buy things like video cameras to fill it up. Do enhancements such as visual enhancements, and smartlink, work for drones the same way they do for people?

Correct, the drone are considered to be "sensor-less" as far as I can tell. Most GM's I know would assume some basic visual sensor 'off the rack' but just enough to let the drone operate. For nicer stuff, by a Sensor Package (SR4, p. 325) and rock out.

Drone Cameras can be given vision enhancement upgrades (SR4, p. 323), which take up no capacity beyond the initial camera sensor. This is where you'll get Smartlink and Vision Magnification.

2.) What do you roll to determine whether a drone properly understands a command? Would it be command program + skill the command is based on, for example command + gunnery when commanding them to shoot?

I think it works something like this:

If you are "jumped in" to a rigged drone: The Rigger rolls Skill + Attribute.
If you are issuing commands, and the drone is acting on its own: The Drone rolls Pilot + Autosoft.
If you are remote controlling the drone: The controller rolls Command + Skill.

3.) Is there any way to upgrade the hardware of drones, namely the body, armor, sensor, or handling?

Body, Armor, and Handling... not yet. Maybe in Arsenal, you'll probably have to wait for Rigger 4 (which will be out sometime after the release of SR5 )

The Drone actual has two signal/sensor ratings. It's internal "commlink" which lets it communicate, this can be upgraded alongside its other ratings: Pilot, Signal, Firewall, and Response. See SR4, p. 228 and p. 325.

The Drone's sensor depends on the sensor suite you buy/build for it. See #1.

4.) Does the control rig work on all tests involved in vehicle active skills when piloting remotely, or is it just piloting tests to ensure you don't crash?

The control rig only gives its bonus to a vehicle you are "jumped into" and accessing via full hot-Sim VR. (SR4, p. 239 and p.331)

5.) Do video, and audio, enhancements give bonuses to a rigger when he is jumped in, for instance if the drone has a camera with visual enhancement 3 and the rigger jumped into it, would the rigger roll sensor + perception + 3?

Yes. For almost all factors, the drone you've "jumped into" is now your physical body. It's visual sensors are your eyes, its audio sensors are your ears, its reving engine is your beating heart, and its smartlink is your smartlink.... and happiness is a warm minigun. Yes, it is.

Posted by: knasser Feb 11 2007, 09:28 AM

A caveat on number 2. I wouldn't ask for a roll to understand a command most of the time. Only when doing something complex or unusual. SR4 says that dog brains are usually very good within their specific field of expertise. Telling a drone to target certain enemies should be no more complex than highlighting the running people in your AR interface and selecting "Priority."

Posted by: Leehouse Feb 11 2007, 09:44 AM

Thanks a ton. Now to go about convincing my GM of this, because he currently doesn't believe drones should get bonuses for things like smartlink, visual enhancement to sensors, audio enhancement to sensors.

Posted by: Serbitar Feb 11 2007, 12:52 PM

QUOTE (Thain @ Feb 11 2007, 05:04 AM)

That is undecided. I assume that they already have sensors according to their sensor rating built in. (Starting with camera and radar and going up).

QUOTE

2.) What do you roll to determine whether a drone properly understands a command? Would it be command program + skill the command is based on, for example command + gunnery when commanding them to shoot?

I think it works something like this:

If you are "jumped in" to a rigged drone: The Rigger rolls Skill + Attribute.
If you are issuing commands, and the drone is acting on its own: The Drone rolls Pilot + Autosoft.
If you are remote controlling the drone: The controller rolls Command + Skill.

A Jumped in Rigger rolls exactly the same stuff as the drone itself. Its just that any attributes of the rigger are replaced by pilot and any skills by autosoft. But actual attributes of the rigger are not rolled most of the time, so pilot is not very useful.
(See FAQ for this).

QUOTE

5.) Do video, and audio, enhancements give bonuses to a rigger when he is jumped in, for instance if the drone has a camera with visual enhancement 3 and the rigger jumped into it, would the rigger roll sensor + perception + 3?

Yes. For almost all factors, the drone you've "jumped into" is now your physical body. It's visual sensors are your eyes, its audio sensors are your ears, its reving engine is your beating heart, and its smartlink is your smartlink.... and happiness is a warm minigun. Yes, it is.

Tis is up to discussion. RAW does not mention this case at all.

Posted by: Thain Feb 11 2007, 03:31 PM

QUOTE

"A Drone controlled in this manner ["jumped in"] acts on the rigger's own Initiative - the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are made using the rigger's own skill and attributes." (Emphasis mine.)

Shadowrun, 4th Edition Core Rulebook, page 239, second paragraph.

QUOTE

QUOTE (Thain)

Yes. For almost all factors, the drone you've "jumped into" is now your physical body. It's visual sensors are your eyes, its audio sensors are your ears, its reving engine is your beating heart, and its smartlink is your smartlink.... and happiness is a warm minigun. Yes, it is.

Tis is up to discussion. RAW does not mention this case at all.

"Riggers may also take a Complex Action and "jump into" a drone via full-VR. In this case, the rigger essentially "becomes" [quotes in original] the drone, perceiving through its sensors and operating as if it were his own body." (Emphasis mine.)

Shadowrun, 4th Edition Core Rulebook, page 239, first paragraph.

Now, I do not deny that Serbitar and I have had differences of opinion on how Technomancers, Agents, and certain other Matrix activity works. But, I will admit that those are all ambiguous areas of the new system's rules. But in this case, I have to say that the Rules As Written are perfectly clear.

A rigger's own skill and attributes and attributes are used when "jumped in." That is the unambiguous language of the above paragraph. No two ways around that.

A rigger perceives through the drones sensors when "jumped in." Again, the language is clearly saying this is the case. A drone has a camera sensor, with a smartlink add-on. The "jumped in" rigger uses that same camera, and that same smartlink.

Posted by: Jaid Feb 11 2007, 03:32 PM

except that the FAQ says to use the response of whatever the rigger is rigging when jumped in, iirc.

which i suspect is what serbitar is talking about...

Posted by: Thain Feb 11 2007, 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Jaid)

except that the FAQ says to use the response of whatever the rigger is rigging when jumped in, iirc.

which i suspect is what serbitar is talking about...

QUOTE (Shadowrun @ 4th Edition Core Rulebook, page 239, first and second paragraphs adjusted for errata. )

Riggers may also take a Simple Action and "jump into" a drone via full-VR. In this case, the rigger essentially "becomes" the drone, perceiving through its sensors and operating as if it were his own body.

A Drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger's own Initiative - the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are made using the rigger's skills plus the Matrix/vehicle attributes of the drone.

Well, I'll be darned. I just looked this up in the errata. Mea maxima culpa.

My gaming group has a policy of only checking the errata if something is unclear in the Rules As Written. We do not consider FAQ's to trump the RAW at all, and only consult the FAQ if something is unclear (and not addressed in the errata).

Of course, I stll think this makes no sense, and will continue to play with the rules as written.

Posted by: Serbitar Feb 11 2007, 07:49 PM

No offense taken. I still think tha FAQ makes more sense. Why should agililty matter anything when jumped in? A VR persona has no body.

And no, agility is not the ability to coordinate your virtual body, only your real body. In SR, mental and physical attributes are strictly sperated.

Posted by: Thain Feb 11 2007, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (Serbitar)

Yer still wrong about the smartlink, `chummer.

Posted by: Serbitar Feb 11 2007, 07:58 PM

No, I am of your opinion. I am just saying that it is not explicitly stated anywhere. The rule section you quoted is a little weak for my taste, but thats just me.

Posted by: Leehouse Feb 11 2007, 08:31 PM

Here is why I feel that the various enhancements should be allowed
from the FAQ

QUOTE

Do drones (and rigged vehicles) come with any sort of sensors (e.g., cameras, microphones)? If they do, what are they?

Yes, as you'll see on p. 342, SR4, each of them has a Sensor attribute. If you want to determine what specific sensors a drone has, see the Sensor packages table on p. 325, SR4. You can use the capacity for the vehicle's sensor package to determine what kind of sensor gear it has.

From the book p 325

QUOTE

Sensor packages combine several types of sensor into one unit. RFID Sensor tags are described on p. 318; microsensors are the size of a coin or smaller and are used on micro-drones or often disguised as other items; handheld sensors are easily carried in the palm; Mounted sensors are lunchbox-sized; drone and vehicle sensors are self-explanitory.

Which says that the list of sensors can be installed on drones, and it goes on to explain that said sensors, barring a maximum on the sensors themselves, can only 'see' so far based on size. e.g. a camera on a large drone can see 1 km, a smaller camera installed on a micro can only see 100 m

Later that page

QUOTE

Camera: The most common sensor, cameras can capture still photos, video, or trideo (including sound). Cameras may also be upgraded with Vision enhancements.

Since its specifically listed as a sensor, and upgradable one would assume that upgrades to the sensor would count as upgrades to the drone said sensor is installed on.

That being said I would say that camera's, microphones and anything else that can have upgrades should have a capacity rating, and said capacity rating should depend on the size of the sensor. e.g. A micro drone camera can have 1 upgrade installed on it, whereas a large drone could have 3.(numbers are just for example, not specifically how I would play it.)

Posted by: nathanross Feb 27 2007, 03:06 AM

I have to agree with Serbitar about Jumped-in initiative. Even technomancers that are full organic hacking use Intuition x 2 for VR Reaction. I think initiative should be the same as regular VR though modified by the Control Rig. And Thain, even the rulemakers mess up sometimes, no one is perfect.

Posted by: DireRadiant Feb 27 2007, 02:15 PM

What i think may make sense for a Jumped In rigger is that they use their physical attributes, but it's capped by the drones response attribute. This would be similar to how spell effects are capped by the Force they are cast at.

Posted by: Wasabi Feb 27 2007, 11:55 PM

Minus the smelling part I usually rule that default sensors of a dog brain are of dog caliber up to the sensor rating. Since there are so many caps on perception through drones to begin with it not very game unbalancing.

What sensors really do is make you need 50 million drones so you can have flying minidrone sureveillance with a myriad of devices.

Also keep in mind Sensor Tags... they are teensy tiny, immobile unless placed on something large enough to hold them and they work really well in their small sensor area.