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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Cyberware compatibilty
Posted by: MaxHunter Feb 14 2007, 10:44 PM
Just two quick cyber questions: bang, bang
1. If I have read the errata correctly, you can't combine reaction enhancers with wired reflexes. Can you go synaptic + reaction enhancers? What other initiative boosters can reaction enhancers be combined with? Adept increased reflexes?
2. What is the point of touch links? Have you ever created a char who got those? Why?
Cheers,
Max
Posted by: Butterblume Feb 14 2007, 10:47 PM
| QUOTE (MaxHunter) |
| 1. If I have read the errata correctly, you can't combine reaction enhancers with wired reflexes. Can you go synaptic + reaction enhancers? What other initiative boosters can reaction enhancers be combined with? Adept increased reflexes? |
I think that is from the FAQ, not the errata, and it doesn't make sense.
Posted by: djinni Feb 14 2007, 10:55 PM
1. nope
2. you ever created a character with a Simrig?
Posted by: Cheops Feb 14 2007, 11:06 PM
Doesn't a simrig automatically give you a touch link?
Posted by: djinni Feb 14 2007, 11:33 PM
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
| Doesn't a simrig automatically give you a touch link? |
nope, but that's not the point...nor does it answer the question.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 14 2007, 11:58 PM
| QUOTE (djinni) | ||
nope, but that's not the point...nor does it answer the question. |
actually, it basically does.
simrigs include sim modules.
sim modules provide you with any type of senselink you could imagine.
and on a side note, i actually have created a character with an implanted simrig before
(never made one with external though...)
Posted by: djinni Feb 15 2007, 12:08 AM
a touch link is not included in a sim module.
a sim module only allows playback of simsense.
a touch link allow someone else to send you a touch sense. someone with and AR glove could touch something and send you the stimuli. or other peripheral device. for example.
things like the "touch" sense from a rone to help you "feel" things. etc...
while similar they both have different functions.
Posted by: Garrowolf Feb 15 2007, 03:44 AM
For some reason skinlink creeps me out. I keep on thinking what altering the bioelectric feild of your body must be doing to you. FOr some odd reason I feel more comfortable with a piece of cyberware then skinlink.
go figure
Posted by: MaxHunter Feb 15 2007, 06:39 PM
So, for number one it is a no no, isn't it? I wonder know about the reaction enhancer's flavor text: "compatible..." with what?
I still think that a touch link might be intended for something different - the which I do not know - else it hasn't got much use in game...
I have never created any character with a simrig, but I can imagine someone having it, specially if you want to do naughty tricks like Molly with nipple.
Why am I thinking about Nadja Daviar now?
Cheers,
Max
Posted by: jervinator Feb 15 2007, 09:05 PM
I would think that Reaction Enhancers are for nerves and Wired Reflexes REPLACE nerves, therefore creating incompatibility. However, Synaptic Boosters, which augment existing nerves without replacing them.... cost lots of nuyen
Posted by: Ted Stewart Feb 16 2007, 08:17 AM
P. 334: "Reaction enhancers are compatible with other Initiative-boosters."
P. 335: "Wired reflexes cannot be combined with any other form of Initiative enhancement."
P. 340: "The synaptic booster cannot be combined with any other form of Initiative enhancement."
I suspect you'll find the same ambiguity in all the other references to initiative effects from mage spells and adept powers. The problem is that reaction enhancers say that they work with OTHER initiative boosters, meaning that they consider reaction enhancers to be an initiative enhancement that therefore doesn't stack according to WR and SB rules.
That's bunk as far as I'm concerned. RE increase your reaction. That effects initiative indirectly, but it's a reaction boost, not an initiative boost. I think WR and SB should read that they aren't compatible with effects that grant additional initiative passes. I think the idea is to keep people from using Jazz or Cram to get a temporary (and very cheap) equivalent to WR or SB 3, not to remove combining them with RE.
Edit: After some consideration, why would they make RE stack with drugs, and only drugs? All the other reaction effects explicity state they don't stack.
Posted by: Magus Feb 16 2007, 08:50 AM
The Synaptic Booster and Reaction Enhancers are compatible. As neither one affects the other. The Errata/FAQ only specifically stated the Wired Reflexes. Plus I do believe that someone actually asked FanPro in an email on this.
Posted by: Thanee Feb 16 2007, 09:01 AM
In my opinion, Reaction Enhancers stack with all Initiative enhancers (Wired, Synaptic, Magic, Drugs, etc).
Reaction is still capped at 9 (for humans), so where's the big deal, really.
The FAQ needs errata. Or is that the other way around? 
Bye
Thanee
Posted by: MaxHunter Feb 16 2007, 03:29 PM
My thoughts exactly
Cheers,
Max
Posted by: Jaid Feb 16 2007, 05:03 PM
| QUOTE (djinni) |
| a touch link is not included in a sim module. a sim module only allows playback of simsense. a touch link allow someone else to send you a touch sense. someone with and AR glove could touch something and send you the stimuli. or other peripheral device. for example. things like the "touch" sense from a rone to help you "feel" things. etc... while similar they both have different functions. |
simsense includes touch.
your sim module is fully capable of simulating sensory data of all kinds, including that of touch. it is furthermore capable of allowing you to access AR, and is stated to be the most common way for people to access AR.
the touch link is able to simulate sensory data derived only from touch.
since the sim module can handle all forms of sensory data, and the touch link can only handle a small subset of that data, and does nothing else, it is reasonable to state that the sim module (for all intents and purposes) includes a touch link.
furthermore, the simrig (which is what i was actually discussing) can also record sensory data of all kinds (including touch). so if you are implying that the touch link is able to record and send data (which it does not explicitly say, but which would be a reasonable assumption imo, in much the same way cybereyes or ears come with recording ability), then the simrig (which i was referring to, not the sim module) could still be said to incorporate the touch link.
Posted by: Claw Feb 22 2007, 11:18 AM
The main prob is, that wired reflexes and synaptic accelerator don't provide an initiative bonus, just a reaction bonus. So just give all those goodies an initiative bonus (like the Increase Reflexes Spell already does), deleted this terrible FAQ-answer and be happy.
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Feb 22 2007, 11:25 AM
| QUOTE (Claw) |
| The main prob is, that wired reflexes and synaptic accelerator don't provide an initiative bonus, just a reaction bonus. |
Sure, but the term 'Initative-booster' is completly undefined.
| QUOTE (Claw) |
| So just give all those goodies an initiative bonus (like the Increase Reflexes Spell already does), deleted this terrible FAQ-answer and be happy. |
Happy about Sams loosing Reaction, which is used for Dodge, and being only as good as a mage with Inc Ref? Thank you very much.
Posted by: ornot Feb 23 2007, 01:33 AM
Now I think about it, that's a tough call to make. My first reading was that WR and SB precluded the use of RE, but it might just be that WR and SB are described in that way to prevent people taking both and stacking them, or combining them with the IR spell (which would hypothetically net you 10 IPs).
Still, the FAQ states that RE are incompatible with WR, which I would take to mean they are also incompatible with SB. Although, since RE are significantly cheaper than WR and SB, perhaps you could gain the reaction boost from the RE and the IP boost of a lower level of WR or SB?
for example
rating 3 WR=5 essence+100kyen= +3Rea 4IPs
rating 1 WR+rating 3 RE=3.2 essence+41kyen= +3Rea 2IPs
Of course, how worthwhile it would be is another matter entirely.
Posted by: SCARed Feb 23 2007, 09:34 AM
actually your examples make sense to me. REA-boost are not stacked (you only get the better of the two), but you get the bouns IPs of the Rebo. seems fair to me and it explains, why the reaction booster ist 100% compatible with the SB - the latter does nothing to REA.
btw: even if you use WR and the reflex spell, there's a hard cap of 4 IPs. the BBB explicitly states, that no one can have more. no way. just wanted to mention.
Posted by: Thanee Feb 23 2007, 09:37 AM
| QUOTE (Claw) |
| The main prob is, that wired reflexes and synaptic accelerator don't provide an initiative bonus, just a reaction bonus. So just give all those goodies an initiative bonus (like the Increase Reflexes Spell already does), deleted this terrible FAQ-answer and be happy. |
No way. Wired Reflexes must improve Reaction.
Bye
Thanee
Posted by: ornot Feb 23 2007, 03:14 PM
I am aware of the 4IP hard cap, I just felt that the example of 10 IPs might emphasise the case.
Posted by: lorechaser Feb 23 2007, 05:55 PM
| QUOTE (ornot) |
| Now I think about it, that's a tough call to make. My first reading was that WR and SB precluded the use of RE, but it might just be that WR and SB are described in that way to prevent people taking both and stacking them, or combining them with the IR spell (which would hypothetically net you 10 IPs). Still, the FAQ states that RE are incompatible with WR, which I would take to mean they are also incompatible with SB. Although, since RE are significantly cheaper than WR and SB, perhaps you could gain the reaction boost from the RE and the IP boost of a lower level of WR or SB? for example rating 3 WR=5 essence+100kyen= +3Rea 4IPs rating 1 WR+rating 3 RE=3.2 essence+41kyen= +3Rea 2IPs Of course, how worthwhile it would be is another matter entirely. |
I think that's the best way to resolve it.
That way you can do something like Wired 1, for an extra ip, and Reaction 4, to get +4 rea.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Feb 23 2007, 08:35 PM
| QUOTE (lorechaser) | ||
I think that's the best way to resolve it. That way you can do something like Wired 1, for an extra ip, and Reaction 4, to get +4 rea. |
Which would be fine except that this was not the case in previous editions. Where it was explicitly stated that Reaction Enhancers stack with other initiative boosters (which only left Wired Reflexes, Synaptic Boosters, and Boosted Reflexes). Don't make me dig out my Man and Machine!
This may also be part of the problem, I'm not sure if Reaction Enhancers were a BBB item in previous editions, which means they snagged it out of a soruce book and didn't bother clarifying it at that time. Now the FAQ comes up and I wonder if any of them actually looked at the source of some of these items they are "correcting".
my 2
at least. I say they stack normally, all races already have a cap on reaction anyhow, and even hitting the cap, it doesn't provide enough dodge dice to negate needing points in dodge (and actually taking full dodge) unless you are an adept with huge combat sense as well. But people will always munch.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Feb 23 2007, 10:34 PM
...Reaction Enhancers appeared in Man & Machine. They were available at Rating 1 - 6 but were fairly expensive (30,000 x rating - .3 essence per rating). This was a Muncher's "dream-'ware" as they were stackable with other reaction enhancements. I had to deal with one PC in my campaign who had a reaction score of 19. After adding it all up myself it all jived (much to my displeasure as a GM). Sec guards were worthless, even setting up ambushes was pretty a futile gesture. About the only thing that could beat him was a fully maxxed out Cyberzombie.
I for one am glad they do not stack with other intitiative/reaction boosts anymore.
Posted by: Ravor Mar 5 2007, 01:12 AM
Hmm, although I've never installed it in any of my characters, would using a Touch link allow for AR cyber-sex?
Just a thought...
Posted by: Trigger Mar 5 2007, 01:40 AM
Actually, I have just read and reread the AR section of the BBB and the sections on the various 'links and the Sim Module and I can say almost definitvely that a sim module does not grant you any sort of sensory link, it simply translates data into neural signals that your brain can understand. Each of the sensory inputs is needed for the specialized inputs that one can pick up from the matrix: touchlink, image link, sound link, olfactory boosters, and taste boosters. .....I have just been pondering this for awhile....and yes someone with a touchlink could partake in AR or VR cybersex and actually feel it, whereas if they only had a sim module they would only get the emotional track from the simsense programming.
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