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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Response and System
Posted by: Alex Feb 17 2007, 10:29 PM
OK, I'm reading over the Matrix rules again in preparation for a game and something stands out a bit that bugs me.
I understand that Response limits System which in turn limits program ratings. The modern parallel is how my outdated PC could never run Vista and I could never run a program that required Vista. I also get that when you reach the System rating in programs you reduce the Response by one. Parallel is me downloading too many things at once and the computer game I am playing beginning to lag.
However, here what doesn't make sense to me. What happens when the Response drops? A literal reading of the rules means that System drops as well, which in turn means that the program limit is still exceeded and Response drops again creating a cascade effect that crashes the device. That seems silly. Not to mention that the example on page 212 shows the Response dropping by two. I have to assume that the effective Response is lowered but no other ratings are effected. Is that correct?
Second, If you had a really crappy commlink (think a Cracker Jack prize), with ones for all its ratings would it crash upon opening a single program?
Thanks for the help. If I have missed something please point me in the right direction.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 17 2007, 10:37 PM
the http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/faq.shtml is your friend, especially the http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/faq.shtml#6.
or, to make it quicker for you, the response decrease from program overload only affects response itself, and does not chain on to anything else.
Posted by: Ophis Feb 17 2007, 10:40 PM
Basically the system drops for it's effective rating but not for how many more programs are needed to drop it.
For a better explanation go to the http://www.srrpg.com/resources/faq.shtml#6 for a better explanation.
Posted by: Ophis Feb 17 2007, 10:42 PM
Damn beaten to the punch.
Posted by: cetiah Feb 17 2007, 10:46 PM
Response limits System. System limits the rating of programs. High number of programs limits response.
Let's try an example:
You have System 4 and Response 4.
You also have Exploit 4, Scan 4, Edit 4, Browse 4, ECCM 2, and Analyze 6.
If you were running Analyze, Edit, and Browse, you would have your total 4 Response and 4 System and your effective program ratings would be Analyze 4 (reduced due to System), Edit 4, and Browse 4. You have 3 Active Programs loaded.
Now if you try to load all of these programs together, then your persona is running 6 Active Programs. For every X programs, your Response score is reduced by 1 where X = your System Rating, in this case 4. (round down in this case) So, your total Active Programs (6) divided by your System rating (4) = 1.5, rounded down to 1. So you have Response-1.
Your new Response is 3. This also effects your System rating which drops to 3. Because your system rating drops to 3, that is now the maximum rating for each program.
So you now have an effective System attribute of 3, an effective Response score of 3, and 6 total Active Programs loaded: Exploit 3, Scan 3, Edit, 3, Browse 3, ECCM 2, and Analyze 3.
Does that help?
Posted by: hobgoblin Feb 17 2007, 11:27 PM
its incredible how many threads about this apparent circular logic there is if ones does a search...
Posted by: Alex Feb 17 2007, 11:42 PM
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| its incredible how many threads about this apparent circular logic there is if ones does a search... |
| QUOTE (Alex) |
Thanks for the help. If I have missed something please point me in the right direction. |
For the rest of you, thanks!!
Posted by: Jaid Feb 18 2007, 02:58 AM
| QUOTE (cetiah) |
| Response limits System. System limits the rating of programs. High number of programs limits response. Let's try an example: You have System 4 and Response 4. You also have Exploit 4, Scan 4, Edit 4, Browse 4, ECCM 2, and Analyze 6. If you were running Analyze, Edit, and Browse, you would have your total 4 Response and 4 System and your effective program ratings would be Analyze 4 (reduced due to System), Edit 4, and Browse 4. You have 3 Active Programs loaded. Now if you try to load all of these programs together, then your persona is running 6 Active Programs. For every X programs, your Response score is reduced by 1 where X = your System Rating, in this case 4. (round down in this case) So, your total Active Programs (6) divided by your System rating (4) = 1.5, rounded down to 1. So you have Response-1. Your new Response is 3. This also effects your System rating which drops to 3. Because your system rating drops to 3, that is now the maximum rating for each program. So you now have an effective System attribute of 3, an effective Response score of 3, and 6 total Active Programs loaded: Exploit 3, Scan 3, Edit, 3, Browse 3, ECCM 2, and Analyze 3. Does that help? |
ummm... read the FAQ man. he has response 3, system 4, program ratings capped at 4.
your interpretation is the crazy one that leads to "your new system is 3, and you have 6 programs running, so your response decreases by 2 from it's base value, which makes it 2, which means your system is 2, which means since you're running triple your system you lose 3 from your response, which means you have response 1, which means your system is 1, and you are running 6 times your system rating in programs, which means you get -6 to your base response rating, which means you have... "
Posted by: hobgoblin Feb 18 2007, 04:03 AM
| QUOTE (alex) |
| Second, If you had a really crappy commlink (think a Cracker Jack prize), with ones for all its ratings would it crash upon opening a single program? |
two. as i understand it, you have to go above system rating in programs before it has an effect.
and you can in theory load any rating program on that comlink. but because they are capped at system, they would have an effective rating of 1
i can already picture the exchange between salesperson and customer:
day 1:
s: hey, can i help you?
c: yes, im looking for a edit program. i need to write this report...
s: sure, we have this rating 6 version here. it got all the latest helpful features that will turn your report into a instant promotion ticket!
day 2:
c: i bought this edit program here the other day but its so sluggish that i can barely write "hello boss" before i need to recharge my comlink. any ideas?
s: sure, how about a rating 6 system upgrade?
day 3:
c: help, whenever i get a call the comlink freeze and i have to turn it off and on again!
s: hmm, sounds like it has a to low response. can i interest you in a rating 6 response upgrade?
Posted by: Alex Feb 18 2007, 04:11 AM
Thank you. Hobgoblin, that was intertaining!
Posted by: hobgoblin Feb 18 2007, 04:36 AM
Posted by: Jaid Feb 18 2007, 04:45 AM
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) | ||
two. as i understand it, you have to go above system rating in programs before it has an effect. |
depends what page you're reading, as i recall.
that being said, requiring it to exceed is probably more reasonable, since otherwise response 1 doesn't really allow you to do anything
Posted by: cetiah Feb 18 2007, 06:41 AM
| QUOTE |
| ummm... read the FAQ man. he has response 3, system 4, program ratings capped at 4. your interpretation is the crazy one that leads to "your new system is 3, and you have 6 programs running, so your response decreases by 2 from it's base value, which makes it 2, which means your system is 2, which means since you're running triple your system you lose 3 from your response, which means you have response 1, which means your system is 1, and you are running 6 times your system rating in programs, which means you get -6 to your base response rating, which means you have... " |
There doesn't seem to be any chain reaction that I can see.
A high number of programs loaded at once affects your response, which lowers your System.
But your System has nothing to do with how many programs you can run, only what rating each program could be run with.
Your lower system (and thus lower rating programs) aren't going to affect your Response at all. Only the number of programs (6) affects it, just once.
There's no chain reaction that leads to anywhere. It's not that crazy.
Posted by: Da9iel Feb 18 2007, 02:39 PM
Perhaps you can justify it that way, cetiah, but the FAQ clearly indicates that only Response decreases as a result of running too many programs. Hence Response 3, System 4, program ratings capped at 4.
Posted by: cetiah Feb 18 2007, 06:57 PM
| QUOTE (Da9iel @ Feb 18 2007, 09:39 AM) |
| Perhaps you can justify it that way, cetiah, but the FAQ clearly indicates that only Response decreases as a result of running too many programs. Hence Response 3, System 4, program ratings capped at 4. |
Justify?
If Response affects nothing else, why should anyone care about having a lower Response score then?
Posted by: StealthBanana Feb 19 2007, 12:09 AM
People would care because than things like Matrix initiative drop. Response is only how fast your computer is. System is not affected at all by the rules for memory.
If you have Response 3 and System 3, and are running three programs, you effectively have Response 2 and System 3. System is not affected by the Response reduction, according to the FAQ.
It makes sense. Why would your actual hardware physically downgrade just because you're running too many programs? Response is linked to the performance (read: speed) of your computer, and System is just the limit to the computers logical capabilities (a different sort of performance, one could argue).
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