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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Maxing Out Special Attributes

Posted by: Scandalous Feb 23 2007, 01:55 PM

So the post I'm a "Ninja Biatch!" brought up the point about the template having a Magic of 6.

Well I usually dont make characters that normally have maxed out Special attributes however lets take a look at character growth (Karma spending) and Initial character creation. I tend to make characters that follow the theme in the original Trilogy. A person who doesnt have the skills and talents to be a shadowrunner but end up for survival reasons running the shadows.

If your a concept character designer you probably wont like what I have to say, but if your a roleplayer who finds him/herself stuck in a limited role you might find it useful.

Edge:

The usefulness of a maxed out Edge attribute will without doubt will have more impact on a game then any other skill, ability, cyber/bioware or Standard attribute. Having skills at 1 or 2 (possibly even a specialization) and the most commonly used attributes at 4 or 5 make you fairly efficient at any test. However, the more difficult roll's that will be a priority, necessity or must have a success are usually a GM actually asks for. Having the Edge Attribute maxed out is simply a mathematicaly logical choices.

- It can be applied to any roll
- It can potentially double the amount of dice used
- It is cheaper to front load the spending then paying karma to improve it by one more point

IE: to max out the attribute it is 65 points. If you start out with the average edge of spending 20 BP to try and max it out it is a total of 45Karma for metahumans and 54 for Humans. While maxing out a skill starting at 2 is 26 Karma. Most GMs Are probably giving out 3-4 Karma, 5 if your lucky, Per Run.

Magic:

As with Edge, Magic has the same effects on BP/karma spending. The attribute is also the most important on any magical tests besides drain.

So whats my theory? Max out your special attributes, spend all 200 bp on attributes and start out with lower skill levels.

What do you think?

P.S. I am not trying to start conflict on my posts I just want to see what you think. Voice your opinion.

Posted by: Blade Feb 23 2007, 02:11 PM

Maxing out Edge can be very nasty.
Create a lucky human with maxed out Edge and you can just Edge all the dice rolls if the GM doesn't call for a lot of rolls and there's no too long combat scene...

But then it depends on how often the GM refreshes the Edge pool.

Posted by: Butterblume Feb 23 2007, 02:27 PM

The thing about edge is, you can't predict how the GM handles it. Refreshing it every encounter, every evening, every run, or a dice at a time?

Magic, I can imagine that some adept/mystic adept would want to max it at char gen.

Posted by: toturi Feb 23 2007, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (Butterblume)

Although you cannot predict how or when the GM refreshes Edge, there are certain guidelines. For example, per 24 hours or per game session. Granted that these guidelines are not cast in stone, but it does provide a framework to build your PC.

Posted by: Scandalous Feb 23 2007, 03:11 PM

I would have to say the longer the wait on Edge pool refreshing, the more incentive it is to have it maxed. Maybe less so if it is every 24hours.

Posted by: Butterblume Feb 23 2007, 03:19 PM

QUOTE (Scandalous)

I would have to say the longer the wait on Edge pool refreshing, the more incentive it is to have it maxed. Maybe less so if it is every 24hours.

That also depends on game style. Some people use it consttantly and can go through 8 Edge in an encounter. People like me only use it to not die or not get into situations where you are likely to die.
My infiltrator has more edge than my others chars, because getting spotted is bad...

Posted by: Thanee Feb 23 2007, 03:28 PM

Edge is an extremely potent ability. Well worth having.

As for maxing out, I never create a character with any maxed out attribute.

Bye
Thanee

Posted by: sunnyside Feb 23 2007, 05:37 PM

It also depends how you GM handles extended or repeatable tests. Specifically how often they invoke the "you can only try as many times as you have ranks in a skill"

While you have to play it situation by situation, I tend to use that as default in my game. Meaning you may well want to lower something to get more skill.

Still I think spending 200BP on attributes is a default. However it is Karma inefficiant to actually max stats during chargen.

Posted by: lorechaser Feb 23 2007, 06:02 PM

Take a look at Serbitar's system, and Frank Trollman's rants on the subject, to see a large number of arguments on both sides of this.

I'd look them up, but I'm lazy.

Posted by: Thane36425 Feb 23 2007, 06:51 PM

Raising Magic is only good if you can handle the drain of those high force spells. A Magic of 8 with a spellcasting of 3 and a drain attribute of 2 isn't going to do you much good becase the drain will get you. However, a Magic of 6 with spellcasting 6 plus a specialization and maxed out drain attributes would get a lot more milage from lower force spells: more succeses to stage up damage as well as take down drain.

I don't often use edge either save for keeping from dying.

Posted by: Eleazar Feb 23 2007, 11:01 PM

I suggest you look at this if you want to spend your BP as efficiently as possible. I have yet to see a better comprehensive guide.

http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/sr4bpa.htm

For me, edge all depends on the type of character. Some characters benefit a lot more from a lot of edge than other. I would say hackers, magicians, and covert ops get the most use out of it. Anytime you are making a roll that can be challenged multiple times or making many rolls in succession that all rely on completing one specific goal. For a hacker this would be not being caught by the spider, countless IC, and the firewall when hacking. For the covert ops guy it would be going unseen when infiltrating a building with hefty security. For a magician it is used for when you overcast a spell big time or summon that huge spirit for more damage/stronger spirit and drain purposes.

Posted by: Butterblume Feb 23 2007, 11:33 PM

QUOTE (sunnyside)

IStill I think spending 200BP on attributes is a default. However it is Karma inefficiant to actually max stats during chargen.

For my last char i spent 160 (without edge). That's the beauty of the 400 BP at chargen, you can't get everythin you want. I spent 164 on skills, and most of the rest on ware. (like always, the char is a dwarf, too). My reaction sucks, but apart from that, I am very content;). The char isn't designed for combat (inlfiltrator), and i really hope very high perception and infiltrate will help me avoid combat.

Posted by: Da9iel Feb 24 2007, 12:11 AM

If you're going to max out edge, spend the extra 5 points for lucky and leave it at 6 (or 7 for humans). Then you can up it one during the game for 18 (or 21) Karma. Yes, high Edge (can)= Scary.

/edit To clarify: 6th (or 7th) Edge point = 25 BP. Lucky (20) + 6th (or 7th) Edge point (10) = 30 BP and lets you bump it one more later. Hence 5 more points. The same applies to Exceptional Attribute.

Posted by: Scandalous Feb 24 2007, 01:46 AM

QUOTE (Eleazar)

I think its a useful site but Calculating straight up cost doesnt account for variables such as # of applications and frequency of use to your over all skill sets and or rolls that will include the attribute. The weight of a commonly used attribute such as agility magic and willpower is much more than than almost any others. Edge is a catch all and can be limited in its application but the situation that it is used in will also have more weight.

understand what I am saying? because i think i lost myself

Posted by: Glyph Feb 24 2007, 04:04 AM

Hard maxing Magic is useful for some builds, but hard maxing Edge is not really worth it. It's better to spend 18 Karma later than to spend 25 build points at char-gen, where it will be a big hit on your ability to buy other things that your character desperately needs.

Posted by: Protector152 Feb 24 2007, 05:40 AM

Hard maxing (i assume that means pushing it up as high as you can as fast as you can) edge may not be worth is in most cases but since my char is a hacker (decker) with gremlins 4 i need all the luck and logic i can get. As a side note yes i did take lucky.

Just my two cents.

Posted by: Crakkerjakk Feb 24 2007, 08:17 AM

... you make Baby Jesus cry..... why?

Posted by: Protector152 Feb 24 2007, 10:01 AM

he was originally ment to be part of a shadowrun (comedy/ C.L.U.E. files) team who where just going to be stuffed in every single way. eg. a mage with cursed 4, a hacker (rigger) with gremlins 4 and so on...... basicly we where going for all out laughs the whole run. please bear in mind that this Is my first char... my secound was a troll adept ninja