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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Defense Trait (SR3)

Posted by: Garrowolf Feb 24 2007, 10:31 AM

Defense

Defense reflects the basic difficulty in hitting a active moving target. It is the base TN for all attackers. Standard Defense for most characters is 4, 3 for Trolls because their huge size. Start with this number and modify it for high reaction. If the character has a Reflex Trigger make sure and note natural and augmented Defense.

CODE

Reaction Defense Bonus
1-2 -1
3-5 0
6-8 +1
9-11 +2
12-14 +3

There are several options for Defense for characters.
Flat Footed – Characters who are not prepared or aware of danger are flat footed for a round. Attacks against the target are at the character’s Defense –2.
Standard Defense – Characters who are aware of danger have their full Defense and can take all standard actions.
Fighting Defensively – Characters gain a +1 to Defense but a +2 on all their attacks.
Melee Dodge – During melee and unarmed combat both parties get a roll. The defender may roll dodge (Quickness + Atheletics TN 4) instead of countering. Their Defense gains a +1.
Abort to Dodge – Characters can take a complex action to dive for cover. They can also take their next turn’s action to abort to dodge. This means that the character is moving up to their quickness in meters to get to some sort of cover. They may do this at any initiative count, unless they have lost their action due to surprise. Their Defense gains a +2 while they do this but they may not take any other actions.

Cover and Concealment

Cover is measured in degrees. It is measured based on how much of the person is covered by the object. This does not prevent someone from shooting through the object though. Cover also gives a bonus to Dodge based on the size of the object as if the character was standing behind it. This increase the Defense of the dodging character during their dive for cover.

CODE

Cover Penalty Defense Concealment
¼ +1 - +1
½ +2 +1 +2
¾ +4 +2 +4
9/10 +6 +3 +6
Total +8 +4 Total

Cover Penalty applies to trying to hit a target with that much cover. Concealment gives a bonus to stealth checks. Characters that have been behind a wall for more then one round will appear on Thermographic Vision and cover no longer applies but the barrier will. Blind fire is at a +8. Firing from cover gives a +3 and requires that the character reduce their concealment to do so.

Movement

Target Running – If the target’s last action was a run action then their Defense gets a +4.
Target Stationary – If a target is not moving because they are occupied with a complex task or just standing stationary their Defense gets a –1.
Attacker in Melee Combat – If an attacker is attempting to conduct a ranged attack while engaged in melee or unarmed combat with another opponent, or if he’s aware of another character trying to block his attack within two meters of him, the attack is at +2 per opponent.

Range Modifier

Start with target’s modified Defense score and apply range penalties.

CODE

Range Penalty
Short +0
Medium +1
Long +2
Extreme +5

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Feb 24 2007, 02:11 PM

Range is already covered by the change in base TN to hit at range. Changing this to a TN modifier just makes centering overpowered in long range engagements.

Aside from that, what is the goal of adding a defense trait? Dumping the dodge rules? Dumping all of the combat pool? Something else entirely?

Posted by: John Campbell Feb 24 2007, 02:12 PM

Shadowrun Is Not d20. We do not need a Dex bonus to AC. Reaction already accounts for 2/3rds of the Combat Pool - i.e., your Dodge dice.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Feb 24 2007, 08:20 PM

...this really makes characters tough

Example: the original KK had a Reaction of 13 giving her a +3 making it a base TN 7 [6] (TN 5 with a Smartlink) to hit. That really changes the odds.

Lets take this a bit further, Since trolls (who are about 1/3 again as large as humans/elves) have a base of, 3 Dwarves then should have a base of 5.

So now you take my munched out MET2000 Dwarf Merc Gracie (Reaction 18 & I could argue this should give her a +4) the base TN to hit her would be a 9 (7 [6] with Smartlink). basically with her body attribute of 9 and armour of 9 (Jacket, Sec Helm, Full Form Fit [1/2 value for layering]) she would pretty much be able to shrug off most slug/projectile shots (forget flechettes) save for Elephant Rifles, Gyro Jets, A Troll with a Ranger X Bow, Thor Shots and other Heavy/naval weapons.

All this would do is escalate the GM's arms race with the PCs (everybody would be toting Panther Assault Cannons. as one power happy GM once did to all of us more "normal" runners).

Posted by: Garrowolf Feb 25 2007, 03:53 AM

I think someone with a reaction that high SHOULD be very hard to hit. Of course you have to know that you are being targeted. Yes you don't get a dodge roll unless you abort to dodge. I don't like the idea of actually dodging bullets. This way you are hard to target but if they hit then they hit.

One of the things that I do like from SR4 is dumping combat pool. I personally never liked them. I did a few other things to make the game flow faster as well.

I also used hit location. I also believe that various levels of AP will be more common by this point as there is a literal arms race on the streets. I have a low AP and APDS round. Both are available on the black market. Armor is just too common.

This doesn't make characters invulnerable. I ran a game with this for most of a year. The sammie got hit repeatedly. He got his arm replaced several times alone.

Posted by: nezumi Feb 25 2007, 02:41 PM

The only difference I see between this and the current system is:
1) Reaction contributes to dodge - the problem with this is reaction already contributes towards the ability to dodge in the form of Combat Pool. The difference between Combat Pool and your rule, however, is that Combat Pool is only applied when the character decides to dodge THAT attack. He shouldn't be able to dodge every attack equally well, he has to decide which ones he's dodging. So I'd nix the reaction stuff for SR3, but it might make sense for SR4.

2) Troll size difference - not a bad rule, I'm on the fence about it though, since it does add complexity.

3) Range is a 'modifier' - a bad idea for the reasons stated above. It makes adept centering ever more dangerous.

Everything else would seem to be covered under the existing system, the same modifiers for running, cover, so on and so forth.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Feb 25 2007, 06:38 PM

QUOTE (garrowolf)

I think someone with a reaction that high SHOULD be very hard to hit. Of course you have to know that you are being targeted. Yes you don't get a dodge roll unless you abort to dodge...[edit]...This way you are hard to target but if they hit then they hit.

...With an INT of 8 & Reaction of 18, Gracie was pretty hard to get the drop on.

QUOTE (garrowolf)

I don't like the idea of actually dodging bullets.

...ahh, you got to see Remo Williams.

Posted by: Platinum Feb 25 2007, 06:55 PM

Reaction is already factored in combat pool.

If you want more defense ... just allocate more combat pool to dodging, or body to roll with the shots. The best part of combat pool is that you can decide whether you are going to focus on offense or defense. It also factors in augmentations, intelligence, and willpower (ability to focus).

Someone with that high of a reaction will have a high combat pool which factors in so many more things that just the ability to move and twitch. Reaction is how quickly you react to surprise and changing circumstances, combat pool decides what you are going to do with it.

For those people who can shrug of bullets ... there are APDS, Chokepoints, concussion grenades, and full auto assault rifles with GV4.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Feb 25 2007, 10:58 PM

Meh, why do all that? If you want Reaction to affect your odds of being hit, just scrap the dodge test and use Raygun's system. If you do it that way you even get HYPER REAL FIREARMS ACTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™