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Posted by: SgtShellback Feb 26 2007, 12:19 AM

First off, I'm new here, so "Hi!" to everyone. I'd like to know what the rules are for firing into a melee. Modifiers, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated...Thanks!

Posted by: Konsaki Feb 26 2007, 01:30 AM

My best guess right now would be between negative 2 to 4 dice using the 'Partial' and 'Good' cover respectively. Melee combat isn't just roll the dice for 1 punch. It's a dance of fists and feet, so your just as liable to hit the other guy instead of your target.

Posted by: djinni Feb 26 2007, 01:43 AM

the difficulty for firing into melee is allowing the target a defense roll.
you would not assign a negative modifier to teh attacker since they are not actively attempting to not be shot by you they are preoccupied with their opponent.
allowing a martial arts specced fighter to take the defense and utilizing his martial arts to gain "cover" from his opponent would be reasonable, but he would still get a dodge.

Posted by: Thane36425 Feb 26 2007, 02:33 AM

Shooting into Melee is very dangerous. Not only might you hit the wrong target, but overpenetration of the bullet is a real possiblity, though hard to simulate in SR.

Using the cover modifiers is good, but I would add an extra -2 for the movement of the combatants.

As for hitting the wrong target, that is rather up to the GM, and miniatures would help determine positions of the characters. Another way would be to use the same attack roll, but with a positive modifier equal to the cover modifier granted the actual target.

So, let's say the shooter rolls 10 dice with a -2 modifier for cover and get 4 successes, which are voided by the target's defense, making them miss the intended target. The wrong target then takes a hit from those 4 successes but those 2 for cover are rolled as part of the attack. The wrong target then defends. If they succeed, the bullet misses cleanly. If not, they take the hit.

You can get around this by having the wrong target, jump back, push the target away or whatever.

Posted by: Jack Kain Feb 26 2007, 03:22 AM

Well the book address the penalty of when your firing into a ranged weapon while you are in melee which the penalty was 2 or 3 dice to your attack.

One issue is weather or not the ally is in between you and your target.

Lets start with a standard -2 penalty. If your ally is in between you an the target then you add a cover bonus on top of it.

Posted by: Crakkerjakk Feb 26 2007, 06:07 AM

Sgt, you a Marine?

Also, a handy rule might just be saying that if you glitch on a ranged attack, you hit additional targets besides the ones you're aiming at, be they friendlies or no. This reduces the likelihood of a skilled shooter hitting stuff he wasn't aiming at, unless he's taking a shot that has modifiers that would reduce his dice pool.

Posted by: SgtShellback Feb 26 2007, 08:44 AM

@Crakkerjakk - Yeah, I was infantry with 1/5. The shellback thing give it away?

Anyway, thanks for the responses, everyone. I realize that melee is a swirl of fists and flesh, and that's why I've had a hard time deciding how to handle this. Sometimes I lean towards giving the attacker a 50/50 chance of hitting friend or foe, then rolling accordingly. Other times I think thats too harsh. But these suggestions have got me started down the right track.

I can't believe it wasn't covered in the book!!

Posted by: shadowbod Feb 26 2007, 04:36 PM

Unfortunately, the rules writers decided that it's actually easier to shoot a target in melee. On page 151 of the rulebook is a -3 dice pool modifier for the defence roll in the following situation... 'Defender in melee targeted by ranged attack -3'.

I know that this is supposed to simulate the defender being busy dealing with the melee that they are involved in, but it really shouldn't be easier to hit someone in this situation.

Posted by: Konsaki Feb 26 2007, 04:52 PM

I would reduce both the attacker's and defender's dicepools in this situation.
Now of course if the Attacker didnt care which target they hit, then there wouldnt be a negative mod.

Posted by: Crakkerjakk Feb 26 2007, 05:37 PM

Comm, 26th MEU here.

I'd say it's easier to hit someone in a melee, so long as you're using a burst and don't care if you hit anyone else in there. After all, they aren't exactly flinging themselves towards cover. It's a difficult situation to model properly, especially without making a whole crapton of extra rules. Thats why I like my glitch approach, but hey, whatever works for you and your players.

Posted by: Ophis Feb 26 2007, 08:26 PM

The attacker also recieves a -3 penalty to the shot, don't have a page reference but it's near the start of the combat chapter.

Posted by: Jack Kain Feb 26 2007, 09:17 PM

Posted by: shadowbod Feb 26 2007, 10:54 PM