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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Grenade Launcher Canister Loads

Posted by: HullBreach Mar 2 2007, 01:54 AM

NOTE: This is a continuation of a discussion that was rapidly taking another thread off-course, that thread is here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16789

I've done some research on different loads that have been cooked up for usage from grenade launchers over the years. In doing so, I came accross a couple of rounds that I thought would be interesting to convert into SR4 rules. Details on these munitions follow:

M576 00-Buckshot Shell
These are packed with 27 pellets of 00 Buckshot, that is expelled from the barrel of the launcher at about 900 feet per second. For comparison, most 12-gauge shotguns loaded with this size of shot expel it at 1300-ish feet per second. These stubby flat topped cartridges are easy to differentiate from ist siblings by shape and the black color of the top of the cartridge.

XM1001 Flechette
These are experimental at this time, and as of right now are only intended for use from the MK-19 GMG (Grenade Machine Gun). Thing is, these could easily be adapted or re-designed for use from smaller individual weapons. These fire 115 2-inch darts. It is designed to be lethal to 100m from the mk-19.

An important note about both of these cartridges is that they are being fired from barrels significantly shorter than those of standard shotguns (assuming the 16" minimum barrel length is still around in 2060) combined with the denser shot cloud is going to result in much more rapid spread.

Im curious to see what you guys think the rules for these should be, as I am planning on doing these up for my site.

EDIT: Almost forgot to ask, should these use the Shotgun or Heavy weapons skill?

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Mar 2 2007, 02:01 AM

Out of curiosity, where's the 900fps figure for the 27 00-shot M576 from? That'd make for 7.5x the kinetic energy of an M433 or M406 round fired from the same launcher, which is a bit suspect.

Posted by: HullBreach Mar 2 2007, 02:03 AM

QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)

Out of curiosity, where's the 900fps figure for the 27 00-shot M576 from? That'd make for 7.5x the kinetic energy of an M433 or M406 round fired from the same launcher, which is a bit suspect.

Hmmm....good point. I got that from Wikipedia so it is suspect. Heres the entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M576_40mm_grenade

I'll see if I cant find an alternate source.

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Mar 2 2007, 02:10 AM

That seems to come from GlobalSecurity.Org, which is generally OK, but that particular article on there seems very colloquial and cites no sources. The same 882fps figure is quoted http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html, another often accurate source, but that page also claims that the M576 "has at least 2,000 pellets" inside, which seems obviously false unless there were several different loadings called M576.

Posted by: HullBreach Mar 2 2007, 02:14 AM

QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html, another often accurate source, but that page also claims that the M576 "has at least 2,000 pellets" inside, which seems obviously false unless there were several different loadings called M576.

What your saying makes sense, as I've been poking around Ive found references to different sizes of shot being used including 00#, 000#, and 1/4" Steel bearings.

Personally, for CQB I'd load it with #8 as it is highly unlikely to overpenetrate interior walls.

Posted by: Narmio Mar 2 2007, 03:13 AM

Fascinating technologies, but can't you just use the Fragmentation grenade rules for this, as they're already based on the Flechette rules?

(Sorry, I'm not a gun-nut, I'm only after suspension of disbelief, not actual realism)

Posted by: Crakkerjakk Mar 2 2007, 08:38 AM

As far as skill use, I'd say use heavy weapons. I mean, they have the heavy weapons skill even for LMGs like the M249, so just because the weapon now does damage like a shotgun, it doesn't change the fact that you're reloading, firing, and aiming(although on a flat trajectory instead of a indirect fire trajectory) it like a grenade launcher.

Semper Fi, Hullbreach. 99-03, 0612.

Posted by: HullBreach Mar 2 2007, 01:00 PM

QUOTE (Crakkerjakk)

Your thinking along the same lines as me! I figured the knob-ology of loading and operating the weapon was a major unsung part of the skill, and figured it would still fall under heavy. If a player wanted to default while using these, I'd let them go to shotgun with a reduced penalty, but I'd make them take a little longer to load.

Semper Fi! 99-03 here as well, 2631. Did you come through PI or Sandiego?

Posted by: Crakkerjakk Mar 2 2007, 05:23 PM

San Diego, graduated Dec 10. Bravo Co.

Posted by: HullBreach Mar 2 2007, 06:19 PM

Ahh. I was Paris Island, graduated in early march, don't remember the exact date.

Posted by: mfb Mar 2 2007, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (Narmio)

not really. these aren't grenades, they're gigantic shotgun shells. grenades go out a certain distance and then explode; these send a hail of shotgun pellets from the barrel of your grenade launcher, just like a shotgun.

Posted by: HullBreach Mar 2 2007, 08:24 PM

I'll have to do up stats for the less-lethal versions of these too. I think they call them Hornets nests. Its basically a giant shotshell packed with solid rubber balls.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Mar 2 2007, 08:26 PM

I'd like to replace my Alpha underbarreledshotgun for lockbreaker rounds

Posted by: HullBreach Mar 2 2007, 11:07 PM

QUOTE (X-Kalibur)

I'd like to replace my Alpha underbarreledshotgun for lockbreaker rounds

Funny thing about those is that they are basically just a compressed chunck of zinc powder.

There are actually adapters availible today to allow smaller caliber munitions to be fired from a GL. Ive seen one unit that lets a 40mm fire a bunch of .22lr rounds simultaneously, and constructing one to allow the firing of a 12-gauge shell would be fairly simple.