Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Rigger character
Posted by: IvanTank Mar 6 2007, 04:23 AM
Has anyone been able to make an effective and fun rigger using RAW yet? My group needs a rigger, so i tried creating one, but it seems so difficult to create a decent and fun rigger at this point, especially since there are no vehicle customization rules yet. I know that more vehicles are going to be released in arsenal, but are they going to include vehicle customizations in that book so that we can have our riggers back?
Posted by: nathanross Mar 6 2007, 06:38 AM
Im working on it.
What I have realized is that it is hard to sammy/decker/rigger. Maybe I have been spending my nuyen wrong. Could probably cut back program costs and spend it on drones.
I might just try to make a technomancer rigger. Still so hard to do though.
Posted by: IvanTank Mar 6 2007, 06:45 AM
drone rigger is relatively easy to do. I am having a tough time creating a vehicle rigger
Posted by: imperialus Mar 6 2007, 08:00 AM
I agree vehical riggers are gonna be the toughest to pull off until we have actual rules for vehical mods. Fortunatly however by comparing equivilant vehicals from Rigger 3 to the SR4 BBB you should be able to come up with some sort of base line for at least simple modifications. Just work closely with your DM and try to build something that aproximates what you want your vehical to do and build stats from there.
In my own group we have our traditional A-Team van, in this case a modified GMC bulldog with a beefed up engine, runflats, some armour plating, a pop up turret and an automated rear cargo door that can be opened remotely to deploy drones which are kept in a cage in the back. We basically just told our GM what we wanted and then we did a run where the van was the payoff. Got around having to assign a price to it that way too.
Sure we don't have rules for sophisticated EW/CEW stuff yet but once we get our hands on the rigger book we'll probably just handwave that as "always having been there, it just never came up before." For now, our Technomancer has just pumped up it's system/firewall ratings and macguivered a comlink onto it with a combat sprite of some sort in it to keep it from getting hacked.
Posted by: DireRadiant Mar 6 2007, 04:59 PM
Buy up the response of the vehicle. See P. 240 Hardware Upgrade Costs. Since this is the Attribute Used when Jumped In, it's an easy call to spend the 4,000 nuyen to get the 5 dice to use with your skill.
Check the FAQ and the 1.15 errata.
Posted by: Wasabi Mar 7 2007, 12:12 AM
What is the role of a rigger? Group transport? Vehicular combat? Sea/Air transport? Fixing things? Massive DPS?
I know how I play mine, but which specialty are you shooting for?
Posted by: IvanTank Mar 7 2007, 02:39 AM
I have him planned for both ground transport and vehicular combat. However, unless weapon mounts are concealed (which is not specified in RAW), you wouldn't want to go around with an armed vehicle, unless you want lonestar to give you special attention. Also, the lack of availability of true AV weapons at character creation truly limits how much vehicular combat you can do. And when you consider the fact that the only weapon mounts that are available can only support weapons up to the size of an LMG, then you are really limited in the long run.
On a similar note, what are the sizes of the various heavy weapons? Can a grenade launcher go on a vehicular weapon mount? A missile launcher? An assault cannon?
Posted by: IvanTank Mar 7 2007, 02:42 AM
And they had better bring back mortars. In SR3, my rigger would have a system of artillery and spotter drones using target designators and guided mortars. Much more fun than a sniper rifle for reaching out and touching someone.
Posted by: Wasabi Mar 7 2007, 03:05 AM
Remember, they removed vehicular Gyrostabilizers so vehicular heavy weapons are a PAIN to reduce recoil on.
Posted by: Jaid Mar 7 2007, 03:32 AM
| QUOTE (Wasabi) |
| Remember, they removed vehicular Gyrostabilizers so vehicular heavy weapons are a PAIN to reduce recoil on. |
the rules do not say vehicle weapons cannot be accessorized. they do say that weapons in general can be accessorized. recoil reduction is easy, so long as you don't mind surrendering the "under" slot on your gun (and assuming it has one in the first place, of course).
as far as it goes, a drone with either a sniper rifle or a panther are able to penetrate most vehicle armor. the highest vehicle armor in the game is 20. the ranger arms SM-4 gives you 8P damage with -7 AP, meaning it's going to damage anything with armor 16 or lower on a hit (one net hit is required, which brings you up one box of damage). the panther similarly does 10P damage with -5 AP (and i would assume is no worse than a LMG on full auto, so it should be allowed imo). that means you need 5 net hits to damage an ares citymaster...
i would also allow rocket launchers and missile launchers in the standard mount. once again, the recoil from a rocket launcher is not going to be nearly as crazy as a LMG, imo.
Posted by: IvanTank Mar 7 2007, 03:44 AM
Remember, neither of those guns nor ammunition are available at character creation. The best you can do is use the elephant gun with EX-Explosive for 10P -2 AV, meaning you would need 8 NET HITS just to scratch that thing.
Posted by: Jaid Mar 7 2007, 03:53 AM
| QUOTE (IvanTank) |
| Remember, neither of those guns nor ammunition are available at character creation. The best you can do is use the elephant gun with EX-Explosive for 10P -2 AV, meaning you would need 8 NET HITS just to scratch that thing. |
the answer to this problem is, don't get in a gunfight with an ares citymaster before you get a chance to gear up for it properly.
alternately, you can bust out the called shot rules, and with that elephant gun you're looking at 14P -2 AP (much better) or 10P -2 AP and -20 to hit (hint: long shot time!) you may also wish to consider shooting out the tires, outrunning it, hacking it, and so forth. certainly, if the first thing you do is face a citymaster, you are going to have problems. likewise with a great dragon. if this regularly comes up as a problem in your games, then i suggest you make a mage character, start summoning force 10 spirits of man, give them manabolt, and make those nasty ares citymasters disappear with a force 20 manabolt of doom. because, if heavily armored vehicles feature in your game that often, you are either completely clueless and unable to implement the shadow part of shadowrunning, or your GM really likes high powered games, and should be handing out such things as missile launchers with AV missiles like halloween candy.
Posted by: IvanTank Mar 7 2007, 03:57 AM
Manabolts have no effect against vehicles since it is a mana spell (only affects living targets). Could use them against the drivers/passengers I suppose.
Posted by: Jaid Mar 7 2007, 04:12 AM
| QUOTE (IvanTank) |
| Manabolts have no effect against vehicles since it is a mana spell (only affects living targets). Could use them against the drivers/passengers I suppose. |
whatever, powerbolt then.
like i said, if you're running into a citymaster as part of your first run, then you either screwed up royally, your GM likes high powered games, you're supposed to run away rather than try to destroy it, or your GM doesn't have a bloody clue what he's doing. none of these are problems with the system.
i mean, honestly, what can a starting character have in SR3 that's going to help them against a banshee? (the most heavily armored vehicle in the main book, as the citymaster is in SR4).
Posted by: imperialus Mar 7 2007, 04:30 AM
| QUOTE (IvanTank) |
| I have him planned for both ground transport and vehicular combat. However, unless weapon mounts are concealed (which is not specified in RAW), you wouldn't want to go around with an armed vehicle, unless you want lonestar to give you special attention. Also, the lack of availability of true AV weapons at character creation truly limits how much vehicular combat you can do. And when you consider the fact that the only weapon mounts that are available can only support weapons up to the size of an LMG, then you are really limited in the long run. On a similar note, what are the sizes of the various heavy weapons? Can a grenade launcher go on a vehicular weapon mount? A missile launcher? An assault cannon? |
Really how does not having rules specific to vehicle customization limit you? A little creativity and you can approximate anything that you'll be able to build using the Rigger X rules. In fact simply starting with a concept, listing the gear and gee-gaws you want and working with your GM to come up with a price that seems fair is probably ten times faster than dealing with a 15 step vehicle creation process.
For example here is an example of a tilt wing aircraft I made up in about half an hour a month or so ago for a special forces campaign I still plan on running at some point. It's really just the TR 55 tilt wing with some armour welded on, some weapon mounts, and a beefed up engine. Until I have rules for EW I'm just saying that the planes entire system runs through a mil spec comlink chock full of IC that is manned by a military hacker who doubles as the comms officer whenever the planes is in the air.
| QUOTE | ||
Ares: MR 55 SO In the mid 2060's Ares saw a need for a long-range medium lift transport that could insert troops into areas normally only accessible by helicopter. A military version of the popular TR 55 series was the result; the MR 55 is larger, boasts 4 high torque Merlin XXI engines feeding two props, which allow greater speed and lift than the civilian version. It is also armored against ground fire and carries a chin mounted Ares Vengeance machine gun in a small remote operated turret that has a 180* horizontal sweep and can decline up to 75*. The turret contains a new generation gyrostabalization platform that is designed to hold the weapon steady on an unstable craft like a tilt wing aircraft. Depending on the mission requirements a MR 55 SO can also be can be equipped with under wing rocket or missile launchers on disposable racks allowing it to serve as a gunship in support of the infantry. In addition the SO version carries a secure dedicated matrix node with a satellite uplink and a 10 KM range. The MR 55 was designed to carry a platoon of fully equipped infantry or a single squad of mechanized infantry while still maintaining a small landing footprint. The MR 55 can land in an area as small as an average urban intersection.
The turret provides 10 points of recoil compensation. |
Posted by: Crakkerjakk Mar 7 2007, 10:10 AM
I want one. Makes the Osprey look like a sissy.
Posted by: imperialus Mar 7 2007, 03:43 PM
| QUOTE (Crakkerjakk) |
| I want one. Makes the Osprey look like a sissy. |
That was the idea
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Mar 8 2007, 03:44 AM
...I'll have to dig up the Fairchild/Marathon A110 Super Warthog and convert it over.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)