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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Landmates in shadowrun?

Posted by: red5angel Mar 16 2007, 02:25 PM

A freind of mine is starting an SR4 campaign here in a few months and I'm trying to find out if anyone has done up stats for a Landmate/powersuit in SR4? Thanks in advance!

Posted by: Fix-it Mar 16 2007, 03:17 PM

Nope, no power armor/suits here.

as there hasn't been a rigger supplement for 4 yet, you really can't gin one up within the rules.

my advice: steel lynx combat drones. more= merrier.

Posted by: red5angel Mar 16 2007, 03:35 PM

I'm not necessarily looking for anything official. My gamemaster and I are either going to do our own stats or use someone elses so I thought I'd check to see if anyone else had done anything.

Posted by: cristomeyers Mar 16 2007, 03:43 PM

It is possible to build an anthropomorphic drone and have a rigger jump into it, but to my knowledge there are no powersuits.

Posted by: Guye Noir Mar 16 2007, 04:13 PM

Power Armor
Armor: 20/20
Standard Features:
• Because the suit is self powered there are no penalties for wearing it with a low Body.
• +4 STR
• Rigger adaptation.
• Chemical Seal with a 24 hour air supply
• Hydraulics built into the arms functions as gyro stabilization
• Can be upgraded with any of the listed armor modifications, as well as visual and audio enhancements and sensor functions. Has capacity 8.
• Already includes a helmet (should be obvious)
• -10 to infiltration

Disclaimer: This armor is extremely broken and not balanced against anything. I simply made it as an intellectual exercise because I think the concept of powered armor is awesome. Most of the numbers I just pulled out of my ass. The armor has no market price or availability because it’s simply not available on the open market. It’s made exclusively for world governments and elite paramilitary organizations. Letting ‘runners in your group find and buy armor like this with a normal availability check is stupid and it would ruin your game.

P.S. http://www.eris.net/~johan/gallery/london-amsterdam/dscn1124.jpg. Chainsaw sword and blessed SMG not included.

Posted by: Kazum Mar 16 2007, 04:33 PM

Or it could look like this http://www.fallout3.phx.pl/obrazki/render/ft_power%20armor03.jpg

Posted by: lorechaser Mar 16 2007, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (Kazum)

Or it could look like this http://www.fallout3.phx.pl/obrazki/render/ft_power%20armor03.jpg

*dies happy*

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 04:41 PM

Now bear in mind, if you get your powered armor too big then you don't have an awesome soldier, you have a crappy tank.
We should be looking at powered armor as a slightly augmented soldier, not as a battlemech. There's another game for that, and it requires a totally different technology level.
But taking some of the full suits and making them powered so that they encumber you as though their armor values were halved (for example), while at the same time giving a bit of a bonus to strength, a bit of recoil comp, and some extra dice to fatigue tests, and you've got something realistic and cool. Maybe if the user has a VCR they can get a +2 to athletic tests.
But I think putting legs on a citymaster is sort of the wrong direction to be going with this.

Posted by: Kazum Mar 16 2007, 04:42 PM

I have an off-topic question: What is RAW ? There is everywhere "according to RAW" .... ? *noob*

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 04:43 PM

Rules As Written. Generally taken verbatim, literally, and without interpretation, and especially without house-rules.

Posted by: Kazum Mar 16 2007, 04:54 PM

thx a lot.

Posted by: deek Mar 16 2007, 05:00 PM

Yeah, comparing it to the vehicle listing, I'd be wary of allowing the body/armor to go above 10/10. Now, you should be able to stack it with worn armor, but I don't think you want a power suit to rival the citymaster, which at 20/20, its actually better...

But yeah, giving a 10/10, extra strength (or maybe just a set strength when used), recoil compensation...like moon-hawk was suggesting, could be really cool, again, not openly available, but maybe something a runner team could see...

You may even want to use the vehicle damage rules for the suit, so in the above scenario, if modified DV doesn't surpass a the 10 armor, then no damage is done...otherwise, you then get to resiste with the 10 body/10 armor of the suit, plus your own body and armor from within...

Posted by: Crakkerjakk Mar 16 2007, 05:27 PM

Important part I would tack on, include power supply, and length of charge. And what happens when the power supply runs out, when you have to drag around all that armor and those servoes around without assistance. Power armor is a nifty concept till it runs outa juice.

Posted by: Jaymes Mar 16 2007, 05:27 PM

I'm trying to understand how power armor would give you a strength bonus instead of just a predetermined strength. Such as, by wearing this armor you strength is simply 10 (or whatever). I would think that the power of the hyrdaulics involved in the armor would be independent of the power of the operator - could you extrapolate on this decision a bit?

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (Jaymes @ Mar 16 2007, 12:27 PM)

I'm trying to understand how power armor would give you a strength bonus instead of just a predetermined strength.

It depends. If you're picturing powered armor as something from Exo-Squad, or the loader from Aliens then it would have a predetermined strength and is probably best described as a vehicle.
If you're picturing powered armor like http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1112411.stm then its strength isn't totally replacing yours, it's just adding a little bit to whatever you do to make loads feel lighter. It doesn't even necessarily make you stronger, just prevents you from being made totally weak by all the crap you're carrying. Of course, for powered armor it is cool if it makes you a little bit stronger.

So if it moves FOR you, it has a predetermined strength. If it helps YOU move, it should be a bonus.

Posted by: Guye Noir Mar 16 2007, 05:42 PM

QUOTE

I'd be wary of allowing the body/armor to go above 10/10

See

QUOTE

Disclaimer: This armor is extremely broken and not balanced against anything. I simply made it as an intellectual exercise...

and

QUOTE

Letting ‘runners in your group find and buy armor like this ... is stupid and it would ruin your game.

Posted by: Jaymes Mar 16 2007, 05:43 PM

That makes sense to me now. Thanks for the explanation, Moon-Hawk!

Posted by: deek Mar 16 2007, 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Guye Noir)

QUOTE

I'd be wary of allowing the body/armor to go above 10/10

See

QUOTE

Disclaimer: This armor is extremely broken and not balanced against anything. I simply made it as an intellectual exercise...

and

QUOTE

Letting ‘runners in your group find and buy armor like this ... is stupid and it would ruin your game.

Yeah, I read that, I was just thinking that we were using your initial build as a concept and then perhaps tweaking it through this thread to come to a general consensus...I think your initial suggestion is solid, we just need to tweak a few stats...

Posted by: Guye Noir Mar 16 2007, 05:46 PM

Jaymes, you're probably right, the suit would have it's own strength score that would override that of the user. I just gave it a bonus because that's how it worked in Fallout where the idea of Power Armor was introduced to my tiny, easily impressed little mind.

Posted by: Guye Noir Mar 16 2007, 05:47 PM

QUOTE (Kazum)

Or it could look like this http://www.fallout3.phx.pl/obrazki/render/ft_power%20armor03.jpg

The original looked so much cooler, IMO. I just couldn't find a decent pic of it.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (Jaymes)

That makes sense to me now. Thanks for the explanation!

No problem. One of the biggest hurdles in any powered armor discussion seems to be agreeing on what it is.
It can be anything from a frame that gives a teeny bit of actual armor and aids your endurance, all the way up to battlemechs, depending on who you're talking to.

But the way I see it, there are two ways to come at it:
1) It's armor, so it uses armor rules. Plus it may give you a couple neat bonuses like RC, some strength, endurance, etc.
2) It's a vehicle, so it uses vehicle rules. We're just talking about a highly maneuverable legged vehicle whose cockpit is inside of it and roughly manshaped, which may or may not extend into the limbs a bit.

Trying to hybridize the two usually ends in something ridiculously overpowered which no one ever agrees on. #2 usually ends up as a crappy tank, that is slightly more versatile in an urban setting, but not much 'cause it's already too big to move well in a building. I think #1 is the most useful and the least game-shatteringly overpowered option.

Posted by: Spike Mar 16 2007, 06:07 PM

I think something adapted from the Milspec Hard Armor from Feilds of Fire (cannon companion???) would be the best starting point for how tough it would be. The only reason for rigger adaption would be using built in goodies, as fundamentally we are talking armor, not a vehicle.

Moon: I'd pimp-slap anyone that tried to tell me a battlemech was 'power armor'. Just sayin'...

If you wear it, it's armor, if you pilot it, it's a walking tank. Simple.

Now: I am certainly interested in following up on this. Keeping in line with the Space Marine armor and the BoS armor, we can avoid (thankfully) mecha interpretations, and keep it more 'shadowrunny'... but then we ignore the landmates which blur the 'wear/pilot' distinction...

Posted by: Jaid Mar 16 2007, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

#2 usually ends up as a crappy tank, that is slightly more versatile in an urban setting, but not much 'cause it's already too big to move well in a building. I think #1 is the most useful and the least game-shatteringly overpowered option.

well, you could always use something like the robotech zentraedi battle pods... where the pilot is crammed into a tiny little area. which would make for a vehicle not that much larger than a human (and quite possibly within the same size range as a human wearing powered armor).

that being said, if we're talking about powered armor, i usually assume somewhere between 6' and 8' or thereabouts (maybe 9 feet, but once you get too big it's hard to imagine humans operating it by movement) and it is usually worn like a suit rather than piloted like a vehicle.

i could certainly see some *huge* advantages in SR terms to having piloted vehicles, as in your second type, however.

1) simsense as a method of piloting is a huge advantage in this case. particularly for people who rig, the control method being more awkward than normal movement is not a concern. furthermore, from a mechanical perspective, if you have people rigging in hotsim, you're looking at +4 dice to all tests they make... before other potential gear bonuses.

2) response 5 is relatively cheap and easily available, as is hotsim, whereas getting all your troops to reaction 5, agility 5 with 3 IPs (and effective 5 to intuition for initiative purposes) is much more expensive. (response 6 just makes it even better) (if you assume the 'basic' soldier has agi 3 rea 3, you're looking at wired 2 (32k) plus probably muscle replacement 2 (10k) since those are the cheaper methods of raising attributes... and at this point, you've got a soldier with essence 1. and their body attribute is still only 3, so you need some bone lacing to keep up with the vehicle (probably aluminum, so now *something* has to be alpha, but it depends on how tough this anthroform vehicle is) and we also need some hardened armor for them (take no damage from stun). this ignores the fact that regular troops will still need to be able to match the endurance of the vehicles as well. also, add in hardened armor to their needs

3) skills. there are massive savings to be had in training, not to mention drastically increased versatility once trained. a rigger needs only one weapon skill to use all weapons (and gunnery has some specialisations that make "Automatics(SMG)" and "Pistols(semiautomatic)" look narrow) and instead of the athletics group, they need one vehicle skill (pilot anthroform). not to mention any skill with vehicle as a specialisation (did someone say infiltration?) if SR4 uses complimentary skills in the future, this could get even nicer.

if you consider it, and consider the vehicle costs, a small anthroform vehicle would look very appealing to anyone considering large numbers of soldiers.

for example, a "street samurai" rigger built assuming a small anthroform vehicle is available might look something like this:

physical stats: not a huge concern. maybe a good body would be nice. mental stats also not particularly needed, and mages also have no LOS on them to cast spells, can only target the vehicle.

skills:

Gunnery 5(ballistic +2)
Pilot Anthroform 5(biped + 2)
Dodge 4 (ranged +2)
Infiltration (vehicle +2)
Perception 4 (visual +2)

Gear:
Response 5
Control Rig
Vehicle
Guns
whatever else they feel like.

and that's it. in truth, even allowing remotely piloted anthroform drones allows this, so it's basically just gonna cause craziness in general, and frustration for the sammy...

Posted by: Fix-it Mar 16 2007, 06:49 PM

getting around in power armor wouldn't be too bad in SR, because remember most ceilings have been adapted for trolls, so you've got some surplus headroom (important)

and door width (not so important)

Posted by: PBTHHHHT Mar 16 2007, 06:57 PM

I keep thinking that my office was made with the Srun trolls in mind. All the office doors are 8'7" (yes, I measured) in height. I keep expecting an NBA center like Yao Ming to be roaming the halls because of the doorways. Does the gov't know something that we don't? Was the Srun designers right about the Mayan calender?!

Posted by: deek Mar 16 2007, 06:59 PM

Yeah, as I am reading more and thinking about it, I think it is better to address it as "wearable" armor, so you wouldn't want to use any of the vehicle rules (even though I suggested one before).

I mean, in the SR world, with drones and riggers, there is really no point in trying to make a vehicle out of the suit. I mean, the main idea, IMO, is to have a powered suit for a metahuman, so you'd want to make it as much like armor as possible, just a little better and scarier:)

So, going back to the initial 20/20, that may not be so bad if its Ballistic/Impact, as those are not automatic successes. And then I wouldn't allow it to stack with other armor...basically the "soldier" is just inside the armor in his long johns...

That puts us back to a little boost in strength, some RC, probably leave movement along (as the extra weight of the armor would be offset by its "powered" nature). You get some vision/hearing enhancement...and then we'd just need to figure out the power situation...duration and the like.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 06:59 PM

QUOTE (Jaid)

i could certainly see some *huge* advantages in SR terms to having piloted vehicles, as in your second type, however.

Sure, using vehicle for combat is good for lots of obvious reasons, and you listed some of them. But I don't see anywhere in your reasoning why the thing needs to be shaped like a person. And if the guy is crammed in a tiny little area like a battlepod, it's not powered armor anymore, it's just a walking tank, anthroform or not.
Vehicles are great. Tanks are great. Even walking ones. But that's not powered armor anymore, that's my point. It's not walking tanks that I have a problem with, it's trying to make "powered armor" that is like a walking tank, but somehow different so as to be more AWESOME. If you want to sit in a large walker go for it, but you don't need any fancy "powered armor" rules for it, it's just a vehicle.
That's my point. I think.

As such, if you want powered armor, it's best starting with armor and adding minor tweaks. IMO

Posted by: PBTHHHHT Mar 16 2007, 07:04 PM

There are plenty of advantages for non-humanoid is shape. So I can see using vehicle for many cases for armor. I think it's best to see what the situation is for the user, as you've stated above. Those who actually 'wear' the armor should instead use the armor rules. While those who are 'piloting' the 'suit' being more of a vehicle. I see power armor (for those anime fans) might be those of Bubblegum Crisis, while those more of vehicle are the ones like in Votoms (Heavy Gear). For those battletech folks, Elementals are the power armor you wear, and the protomechs (and locusts) are the power armor you pilot.

Yes, there are exceptions and such, but it's nice to have some way of distinguishing between the two.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 07:16 PM

QUOTE (deek)

So, going back to the initial 20/20, that may not be so bad if its Ballistic/Impact, as those are not automatic successes. And then I wouldn't allow it to stack with other armor...basically the "soldier" is just inside the armor in his long johns...

That puts us back to a little boost in strength, some RC, probably leave movement along (as the extra weight of the armor would be offset by its "powered" nature). You get some vision/hearing enhancement...and then we'd just need to figure out the power situation...duration and the like.

We seem to be reaching a consensus. You and I at least.

20/20 is still higher than I think I would go, since full body armor with helmet is only 12/10, I'd probably be hesitant to go above 16/14 but whatever, make it as awesome as works for your game. We're bound to have subtly different visions. Also, since it's powered you could treat the armor value as lower (earlier I suggested 1/2 of it's true value) for purposes of determining agility and reaction penalties.
The long johns are a great idea. They're made out of handwavium and must be in contact with the wearer's skin for very important reasons, so no armor underneath.

The bonus to strength is also very much dependent on how awesome you want it to be. I'd probably go with anywhere from +0 to +4, but let it break the attribute cap.
Recoil Compensation I'd probably say 3-6 range, anywhere between a cyberarm gyromount and a real gyromount.
I agree with you about leaving movement rate alone. Why go there?
Maybe give it a bonus to athletics tests, like +2, which would indirectly help movement a little. Maybe. Certain tests, anyway. Not gymnastics.

And I would definitely give a large bonus to fatigue tests, since that's one of the primary purposes of powered armor.
The vision/hearing enhancements are just part of the helmet, no need to invent any special rules there.

The power source is your last chance of controlling PCs who get their hands on this. Obviously it needs to last long enough to be cool, but exactly how long that is depends very much on how awesome you want it to be.
Corollary to that is what happens when the batteries die? Well the armor value doesn't change, but now they face the full value for their agility penalties. That right there is going to slow most PCs down quite a bit, possibly even stopping them in their tracks. They lose recoil, strength, and other bonuses, obviously. I'm not sure it really needs to be any more harsh than that. It would weigh a lot, but that delves into the realm of encumbrance and carrying capacity rules, and I don't even want to go there. If you feel it needs more than that, give it an additional Agility/Reaction/Strength penalty of a couple points to represent the extra load.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Mar 16 2007, 07:23 PM

Space Marine Powered armor anyone? Maybe throw in some Terminator suits for good measure?

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Mar 16 2007, 07:27 PM

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50118033/

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 07:40 PM

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50118033/

Cool pic!
That is a good example of a small vehicle, IMO. Obviously his arm and leg movements don't correspond to the vehicles, since even if the pilot's limbs are in the vehicle's, he can't possibly reach past it's elbows/knees. The pilot's legs must be in the lower "abdominal" section of the vehicle, because if they were in the vehicle's legs then it's "hip" is bending forward right about where the pilots knee (or maybe shin) would be. Ouch.
That is an anthroform vehicle that the pilot rides in, and definitely not what I think of when I think powered armor. I do, however, think that is is an extremely cool anthroform weapons platform, which due to it's internal pilot can shut off wireless and be immune to hacking.

Posted by: PBTHHHHT Mar 16 2007, 07:58 PM

That pic is just like a host of power armor called landmates designed by the artist Shirow.

Oh yeah, I found this from a quick yahoo search. lol. obviously it was made for the older SR rules.
http://archive.dumpshock.com/tech/military/landmate.html

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 08:02 PM

QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)

Other than reading like REAL ULTIMATE POWER and giving them a inexplicably long damage track, it treats them like an exotic vehicle that requires it's own skill.
Sounds fine to me, in principle. (other than being ludicrously overpowered, of course)

Posted by: Spike Mar 16 2007, 08:11 PM

The proper use of "power armor' in the game is either as a prototype to be stolen from an R&D facility or as something the Corps use to protect really high value targets. Runners should have to sweat blood to get their hands on one, you can't just loot it from the fallen, and I doubt they'd make it in troll size.

Here's the thing: Given the bio-feedback requirements in order to fuction properly with 'powered movement' it's going to have to be carefully fitted. As proprietary technology (prototypes...) it may require a non-standard datajack to plug in. It's going to be maintenance heavy even when NOT getting shot up constantly, and then there is the issue of power.

Living Steel had an entire book dedicated to their power armor, I think there had to be a maintence team for every squad, and a squad was only three guys.

That aside, I may just write up some rules for this tonight and post them... which means I'll be using it if/when I run a game.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 16 2007, 08:14 PM

QUOTE (Spike)

I agree with what you're saying, but bear in mind: Once you put this in your game, and the PCs know about it, it doesn't matter how proprietary it is, how much blood it takes, or how difficult you make it to get one, they will not stop trying until they are dead to get one. So you either let them have one as the culmination of several runs and tons of hard work, or you kill them, because they will not stop any other way.

Posted by: Garrowolf Mar 16 2007, 08:49 PM

Actually you can make landmates useless to PCs and still use them. Give them a power system that they can't recharge. The landmates from Starship Troopers Ricos Roughnecks series had the power to last a few hours I think. I was nasty in combat but a pain in the ass.

If they are primarily military then it works out because they will have a supply line.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Mar 16 2007, 10:29 PM

The problem with "powered armor" similiar to mecha is that they are all too big. Landmates were quite large if you remember Appleseed well. Good luck infiltrating a building with it.

Even power armor a la Fallout (best game ever! after planescape...) is likely to be loud and cumbersome and draw LOTS of unwanted attention.

As cool as they might be... not worth it. Think about how hard it would be to walk/drive wearing even security armor (Full Body Armor in SR4 cannot be mil-spec. The stats are too low) without everyone noticing you. Liability at best.

I love mecha as much as the next guy, but I don't see them having a place in SR. At most I could see servo assisted arm/leg braces that give strength bonuses when worn for purposes of lifting.

Posted by: Spike Mar 16 2007, 10:33 PM

The beauty of it is, when the players start jumping through hoops just to get their hands on it... and they will some day do so...

... they will eventually find its next to useless for most Runs. Seriously, even if they want to do a matrix style 'assualt the building' it's a bad choice. Sure, they're immune to most small arms, but once the second line security forces arrive, it's strictly big guns all around. This stuff isn't subtle, and it isn't an 'I win button' either. It's like giving the players the panther assualt cannon. Sure, it's deadly, but if every time they pull it out the Corps start pullign their's out? Yeah...

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Mar 16 2007, 10:33 PM

QUOTE (X-Kalibur)

The problem with "powered armor" similiar to mecha is that they are all too big. Landmates were quite large if you remember Appleseed well. Good luck infiltrating a building with it.

But in AppleSeed, they did!

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Mar 17 2007, 12:00 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_camoflauge and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control could in theory make it stealthy.

Or just a good old Invisibility spell.

Posted by: PBTHHHHT Mar 17 2007, 01:51 AM

QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)

QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 17 2007, 12:29 AM)

The problem with "powered armor" similiar to mecha is that they are all too big. Landmates were quite large if you remember Appleseed well. Good luck infiltrating a building with it.

But in AppleSeed, they did!

In the appleseed world, see the third book, they had what they called orc armor. More in line with worn powered armor. It was used for infiltration/assault on this French manor and it was stealthy.

Posted by: Jaid Mar 17 2007, 11:57 AM

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

QUOTE (Jaid @ Mar 16 2007, 01:45 PM)

i could certainly see some *huge* advantages in SR terms to having piloted vehicles, as in your second type, however.

like i said, that was an example of a vehicle that you ride in, and i don't consider it a powered armor. and like i said, it has some ridiculously huge advantages over just being a suit of armor that you wear.

as far as why it has to be humanoid, i would say mainly because there are very few places that a humanoid form cannot take you. you can walk, climb, swim, jump, and even dig, albeit somewhat slowly. the big advantage to anthroform vehicles, however, is that any time you would normally call for some sort of athletics test for a person (4 separate skills, with separate specialisations not applicable to all situations), the anthroform vehicle's driver merely needs to make a pilot anthroform (biped) check... meaning instead of 4 skills, he's using 1 skill, with a single specialisation that applies to every single check he makes. and if the vehicle picks up an MMG and starts firing it, it uses the same skill as any other gun, be it mounted on the vehicle or fired from a weapon held in the vehicle's hands.

the humanoid vehicle can also manipulate objects in the same manner as a human could, so for example whereas a vectored thrust vehicle would have to shoot down the door or ram through it, a humanoid vehicle could just open the door the same way you or i could. it can use tools and manipulate objects in the world much more effectively than, say, the wheels of a car, the tracks of a tank, the wings of a jet, or a helicopter's rotor blades.

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Mar 17 2007, 03:16 PM

QUOTE (PBTHHHHT @ Mar 17 2007, 03:51 AM)

QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)

QUOTE (X-Kalibur)

The problem with "powered armor" similiar to mecha is that they are all too big. Landmates were quite large if you remember Appleseed well. Good luck infiltrating a building with it.

But in AppleSeed, they did!

In the appleseed world, see the third book, they had what they called orc armor. More in line with worn powered armor. It was used for infiltration/assault on this French manor and it was stealthy.

Actually, in Volume 1, Denuan used a full-blown Guges to sneak up on Briareos... at home.

Posted by: yoippari Mar 18 2007, 04:34 AM

Even after seeing all these examples and the vehicle vs. armor discussion I can't help but see something two versions of powered armor. The first is from d20 starwars their stormtrooper armor. There are better powered armor in d20SW but it makes sense. It has the battle helmet display, resperator, commlink, thing. It is also sealed and has standard fire resistant, insulation and nonconductivity. It requires powered armor proficiency. Without proficiency you have -2 dex -2 str. it is also the most protective and least cumbersum of the powered armors.

The other is Master Chief from Halo. Basicly the same as above but with all kinds of mini servos or something to give increased strength, reaction, agility, probably a gyro system. As I remember he was upgraded before he ever put the suit on but it has been a while.

Neither of these fall into the vehicle category. And are basicly advanced Full Body Armor with all the upgrades.

Posted by: Jack Kain Mar 18 2007, 08:06 AM

We are the Exosquad.

Posted by: yoippari Mar 18 2007, 08:28 AM

Oh ya, those too. But I do kinda see them more as anthromorphic vehicles than personal armor. I guess the line between armor and vehicle that I see is armor is worn and completely dependant on you for movement. Vehicles move themselves with input from a pilot.

Posted by: kzt Mar 18 2007, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (yoippari)

The first is from d20 starwars their stormtrooper armor.

Storm Trooper armor! It doesn't even stop the occasional pistol shot, and nobody ever misses anyone wearing it! In SR I'd give it a +4 to be hit and -4 to your body roll. Thanks, but no thanks.

Posted by: yoippari Mar 18 2007, 09:43 PM

That is why I said from d20 starwars, not the starwars movies. Also, I'm not saying it should be mass produced in SR just that the idea fits how I see powered armor.

Posted by: apollo124 Mar 19 2007, 04:09 AM

No, man! Elemental armor is the way to go! One claw hand, one laser hand, 2 short range missiles and a jet pack!

Of course, you had to be a genetically engineered mutant to use it well, but those are the breaks. That might be a good way to make it less available to PCs. Require certain stats to use it, like a minimum strength and dexterity, of a certain metatype (preferably a rare one, like a giant from the SR3 companion).

And, if you recall, you pretty much had to be a genetic clone to use storm trooper armor . "I can't see a thing out of this helmet!" Troopers in the movies were more likely to gun down their own than hit any enemy anyway.

Posted by: TheOOB Mar 19 2007, 06:14 AM

Hmm, I was thinking of making a mecha varient to shadowrun where the mechs work sorta like large power armor (Stand between 8-14 feet tall, are controlled by physical movements rather then a control panel). While definatly more powerful then a person on foot, the major balancing factors is that they have a very limited power supply(usually 5 -10 minutes). They have an internal generator, but when it's on you leave a strong radar signature that allows you to say be targeted by a salvo of long range missiles.

Posted by: Spike Mar 20 2007, 03:33 AM

Apologies for the delays.

Here is my logic regarding the Powered Armor Feasability Studies Group (Ares R&D study 1348-R-69X)

Standard 'security' armor has a rating of 10/8. Milspec hard armor went up from there by three steps. Power armor would use this as a framework, utilizing already extant armor technology, so we can start at a basis of 13-15 armor (taking into account changes) ballistic. Lets assume momentarily that they are, in fact, using slightly thicker and heavier armor to account for the need to 'Power' it in the first place and go with the larger number. 15/11 let's say. Then you add the milspec hardend helment (tougher than the security helmet) as standard, and assume that to 'idiotproof' the damn thing they make it so it won't work without the helmet. Call the Helmet 3/2. So we wind up with a total basic armor of 18/13.

Now, this thing is totally sealed, internal atmo with heavy duty auxillery filters on the back for when the rebreather kacks it. Micro-hydraulics don't really add much extra umph to the armor, but they do carry the weight and the thing hits like a mule (str/2+3P), and provides three points of recoil compensation.

Now: the helmet would be totally smooth, no soft lenses or other 'weak points. The pilot sees by built in AR overlay, which provides complete sensory isolation, the sensors are incredibly small 'nanodots' scattered over the entire surface of the armor, with redundancy built in. The armor itself is run by a dedicated system with no outside connectivity (no wireless) to prevent hacking while a secondary commlink is limited to 'read only' signals from the dedicated and communications with the 'battletac'. Hacking the Commlink will not cripple the soldier, but will provide/limit intel from the battlefield. If necessisary the commlink can be 'hard reset' by the soldier manually to isolate him if he suspects tampering. While this will still isolate the soldier from both the battletac and any AR signals he could previously tapped, it is a safety measure to prevent the enemy from seeing through his eyes.

The large backpack that many people notice first is an unfortunate necessity. Unfortunate because it is one of the few methods of identifying the Powered Armor as distinct from ordinary hard armor. However, this heavily armored unit carries the power supply (in high capacity batteries, useable for up to 36 hours, with built in trickle chargers that can provide another hour of use per 8 hours of expose to sunlight, piezo-electric trickle chargers have been considered for the boots, but rejected as inefficent for the return... they merely offset the additional power useage for walking/running). A canny operator can extend this battery life by some time by selectively turning off unnecessary components, or even the entire suit if need by for periods of low activity.

The backpack also contains the rebreather aparatus, cooling arrays and a resivoir of hydraulic fluid, in addition to the slave commlink, in case the soldier feels the need to manually eject it as a precaution. This does allow field changes. The Backpack unit also houses remote sensor units (bugs, microdrones, etc), dependign upon the mission, and has hardpoint attachments for spare weapons and can contain an ammunition drum for heavy machineguns or other belt fed weapons. For example, the Vindicator Minigun, which can be mounted to the armor with additional Gyro-support, can carry a 10,000 round drum easily, with 15,000 round drums available.

There is no plan to scale the armor up to troll size, or down to dwarf size. We have found that for maximum useability that Orks make ideal candidates for deployment, as ordinary humans and elves require at least minimal augmentation or very extensive training to use this armor without injury or excessive fatigue.

(STR/BOD minimums of 6)

While the armor is fully capable of utilizing all standard small arms, we have found that it's full potential has not yet been reached. See Feasabilty study on Very Large Armaments (2375-S-69X). Currently operational doctrine suggests that the standard armament for 'standard' troopers be nothing less than the MPG-7 grenade launcher, if we are expecting usage on teh modern battlefeild, where one is expected to encounter mostly hard armors. Currently plans are underway to install HV anti-personnel weaponry into fixed portions of the armor to clear soft targets.

It has been suggested that it is a weakness in the design of the armor that anything capable of breaching the armor will kill the soldier. We feel this is a testament to the strength of our design, however: keeping in mind that training to wear this armor is somewhat extensive, and the idea behind it IS to preserve the life of the soldier who wears it, we have encorperated a 'redundancy' layer into the armor. This is essentially nothing more than a layer of soft armor sheeting and specially designed blowouts to catch spalling and, in teh case of catastophic failure of the armor, to blow out the armor shell and leave the soldier 'unharmed', or nearly so.

(specially effect, if the armor is penetrated then the total DV is halved prior to the resistance check. If the penetration was significant, and from heavy explosive, the armor is 'ruined' and the pilot is 'ejected' wearing only his birthday suit or body-stocking).

To prevent theft of the Power Armor, all prototypes require use of a 'non-standard' datajack. While this datajack functions as a standard datajack, it requires an adapter to use standard plugs. The exact design of the proprietary plug and it's location is carefully controlled and fitted (double/quad prongs on teh back of the neck. Can no be circumvented by merely routing a cable to a standard datajack. A 'hack', either of the hardware itself or a aftermarket copy based on the plugs is possible but extremely difficult).

Recommendation: Continue with the development of the Power Armor project, but not of commercial use. Once third generations suits have proven feasable, regulated sale to third parties of first generation suits may be begun. These are our heavy hitters, and sould ideally be used only when Ares can control the battlefield after deployment. The prototype squad was used successful operations against bug spirit hives in (chicago?).

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Mar 20 2007, 01:47 PM

Nice, Spike. Very nice.

Posted by: ornot Mar 20 2007, 01:55 PM

Nice work, Spike. Are you instituting any modifiers to the armour encumberence rules, to account for the in-built microservos? As it stands anyone with a body less than 9 will be encumbered, but your flavour text suggests otherwise with the line "they do carry the weight".

I also don't quite understand the mechanic for penetrating damage, but then I'm not an expert in armour.

Posted by: deek Mar 20 2007, 03:11 PM

Spike, that is very frickin' cool, now. That's basically the concept I had in mind, just hadn't put any stats to it. With the fluff text added, I am fairly certain that I will bring this into my campaign when I need to toughen some opponents up a bit.

Posted by: Spike Mar 20 2007, 03:42 PM

Yeah, the idea is that the armor is 'self propelling'. In other words, it is outside the normal encumbrance rules. On the other hand, there should be some penalty to actions involving agility that I haven't taken into account to represent the sheer mass of the armor. Stealth and athletics checks, that sort of thing. You certainly won't be swimming in it.