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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ 300 Point Ganger Face - Advice?

Posted by: weblife Aug 3 2007, 12:50 PM

Heya

I'm putting together a young ganger. Our gang has been shot to pieces by a larger group. Now we face death if caught out, so the remains (the party), decide to look at new ventures such as running the shadows.

We start low, with only 300 BP's, and we'll be playing pretty grim and dark. Drug abuse and random violence will be common.

I have my concept down, I'm born to lose, streetkid smartmouth living off his savvy and quick mind. He's a dreamer and opportunist, every new day is a new chance for the quick win.

You know, when he gets older he'll be the guy spending the rent on the latest investsment scheme or plans the "perfect" heist or scam.

So, high CHA and LOG but low Intuition, and probably feeble STR as physical power isn't his thing. AGI may be high or low, Body same.

I want to start gritty, but leave an "out" for him to survive in the long run, so he has to be viable.

I'm considering taking the 10 point quality and later let him emerge as Mystic Adept. Essence-wise I'm willing to spend up to 2 points and will probably go the eyes+ears path for sensory boosts.

As a gimmick I'm playing with the 10 point bioware option, where you gain a 20% reduction in price and a free genetech mod, but I'm confused as to the essence cost when he was born with it? - And what to choose, so many and no indication of which are valid choices fx. its not indicated if this quality lets you break the avail. 12 rule.

Likewise, the other alternative is a nanite hive with reprogrammable nanites, think its a 20 or 30 point quality. Also really cool. Will definately buy a hive to sustain them if I go this route. But again, which can I choose between? - Its not specified, leaving it open to have a nanite production unit, creating small objects under my skin and then bursting out when complete.

While potentially gamebreaking, mja, not really, it would DEFINATELY make a few corps interested in a living nano-vat. Not something my character would like, so maybe a cool plot hook.

Ahem, my question to you is what type of nanites you suggest I begin the game with?

And if my Hive can sustain more than 1 set, and my set is re-programmable, what stops me from splitting my set up and filling several slot of my hive with the reprogrammable little buggers? - And should I be able to harvest them and hand them over? - Or, gulp, would you say its the Hive that contains the "magic"?

Anyway, all comments welcome.

Posted by: Marwynn Aug 3 2007, 03:52 PM

I like your concept, my mage starts out quite the same way but goes the razorboy route with Influence out of necessity.

You may want to swap LOG and INT. If he was thinking Logically he wouldn't do all those crazy schemes; he'd break down the math. High Intuition is creativity and thinking things through, not always logically. He'd be more adaptive and responsive.

The eyes and ears may be worth it, they're common enough, but you can replicate the ear effects with an earbud with no real adverse effects. The eyes may be worth it if he emerges as a Mystic Adept.

The adaptive Rating 3 nanites is a 30BP quality so you can't go with Latent Adept and this. It's any Nanoware listed at Rating 3; from the universal nantidotes to whatever.

And yes a Hive is almost compulsory for it, just a rating 1 will do if you don't want to put in more standard nanoware later. It's not a nanocyberware factory inside you. Just an adaptable nanoware set. He'd still be in demand as those nanites can be reprogrammed without any problems.

Really though I'd think that the nanohive you'd be implanted with would be unique. Maybe the reason why they're reprogrammable has more to do with your character's specific body/magical abilities.

Posted by: Lilt Aug 3 2007, 04:16 PM

If you're considering going magical, and a face, then it's probably a good idea to use one of the traditions that uses charisma as drain.

Here's an interesting idea: Have you considered how you might explain your escape from the gang's slaughter? It strikes me that a follower of a possession tradition, such-as Voodoo (which also has the charisma drain attribute), could potentially have been possessed by spirit to get away. You might have lost memories of the incident, or it might have felt like a dream as somehow...

Maybe you dodged bullets, jumped twice as far as you thought you could, and vanished into the night (+F to Reaction, +F to Agility, Dodge skill at F)

Maybe you deftly blocked that troll's attack, decked him (!?), and took a bullet to the gut but walked away unscathed... (+F to Body, +F to Strength, +2F Hardened Armor, Unarmed Combat Skill at F)

Maybe you picked-up a weapon that you'd never used before, and haven't been able to use since, but used it like a pro (Guardian Spirits get Combat Skills at F)

Maybe you managed to hot-wire a car or door, or tight-rope across a telephone pole, and even though you didn't know how to before and couldn't do it again, you somehow knew what you were doing at the time (Task spirits can have physical or technical skills at F)

It's not hard to see how even a force 2 or 3 spirit could vastly improve your chances of surviving an assault on the gang. Being possessed by a force 3 Task spirit, you could get +3 to each of your physical stats, 6 points of hardened armour, Dodge 3, Unarmed Combat 3, and perhaps Gymnastics 3. You'd lose your own abilities for a bit, but chances are you'd get away.

It doesn't even have to be your summoned spirit in the backstory, maybe the gang shaman for some odd reason summoned a spirit and told it to take you to safety. Maybe a passing spirit saw promise in you and decided to save you, and if you go that way you can go for the 'take the piss' angle and make it a force 6+ spirit (skills at 6+ and an attribute array to make trolls wince), although then the question of "why didn't you single-handedly wipe the opposing gang" would arise.

Posted by: Spike Aug 3 2007, 06:47 PM

I dunno... I'm having a really hard time reconciling a 300BP streetgang member in a grim and gritty and dark game having tweaked genes and/or nano-hives.

Then again, I'm the wrong guy to ask, I think lowering BP's is the worst way to try to capture 'street level' action, rather than just capping BP's for gear at some stupidly low level. (2-3 points).

Posted by: weblife Aug 3 2007, 09:01 PM

Thanks for the input!

@Marwynn, being reprogrammable, nothing is mentioned about them being restricted to the "usual" injected nanites, say you load them with an order to build something, say a key you have just handled/scanned. - With the correct programming, it would be possible, and maybe painful, to have them create the item under your skin and prod it out...

This is where I get creative and need input, would this be too far out? - And what structures would they be limited to producing? - Personally I'd stick with relatively simple and small items, nothing electronic. I think its in Rigger 3 where they describe a vehicle built by nanites, then wired afterwards.

@Lilt, nice direction, I didn't think further than I probably sat hidden and crashing on neo-morphine in a dumpster...

@Spike well, anything that can be put into the grey fog of the past is viable. Sometimes a TV falls off the back of a truck, other times a kid falls off the truck. Both have a tendency to never be found again.

Posted by: Glyph Aug 4 2007, 06:09 AM

Here's one possible way to do a ganger face, as an adept:

[ Spoiler ]

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Aug 4 2007, 08:00 AM

QUOTE (Glyph)

Something Similar I cooked up, again, as an adept. That said, don;t take my advice

Much the same as Gylphs, except I dropped the intuition per your spec and brought up logic. I'd be tempted to smooth out the balance there a bit.

[ Spoiler ]

Posted by: noonesshowmonkey Aug 4 2007, 08:20 AM

I figured that I would post something that does not whore the shit out of negative qualities... you munchkins.

[ Spoiler ]

This lets your character raise his magic to a usuable level with karma. If you care to invest 10 more points into magic, he has a castable magic stat. If not, he has 1 rank in spellcasting to represent his becoming aware of how to use his awakened abilities. Further, the geas drawback can be easily explained by the less than structured education he has recieved in the use of magic.

His skills represent street smarts, with minimal amounts of toughness. He is far better at talking his way out of things than he is shooting his way out. I figure he knows how to use blades and clubs (I doubt bottles, knives and bats are going out of style any time soon). His cyberwear is limited to what is attainable off-the-shelf from a Bodyshop: all rating 3 enhancements etc.

The 12 BP and the looser build provided allows some breathing room and is easily adaptable. Swap the stats around some, add and drop skills etc. Slack would be best taken up boosting the edge to as close to 4 as you can. This kind of guy, a slickster type, is going to be using edge an awful lot. I think of this archetype as a Scoundrel.

I agree with earlier statements that a ganger is very unlikely to have nano or even bioware and still be out in the 'Sprawl.

- der menkey

"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemmingway

Posted by: Glyph Aug 4 2007, 08:56 AM

You know, I get so damn sick and tired of hearing the word "munchkin" being bandied around by people who don't have the first clue what it means.

Munchkin is crippling a character in several areas to get one more die to throw. Munchkin is playing the game in a way that ruins everyone else's fun. Munchkin is cheating - you know, like giving a Magic rating to a character without any of the awakened positive qualities.

Munchkin is NOT using standard char-gen rules to make an effective character. Although my effort wasn't even a character, but a starting set of stats which weblife will tailor to his own taste, if he uses it at all.

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Aug 4 2007, 08:57 AM

QUOTE (noonesshowmonkey @ Aug 4 2007, 03:20 AM)

I figured that I would post something that does not whore the shit out of negative qualities... you munchkins.

Zing!

I'm hoping he was joking, but beneath the vile is a valid point. In a 300 BP game maxing out negative qualities is an 11.7% increase in points you can spend, while in a 400 point game it's an 8.75% boost.

So it gets better to max out qualities the smaller the number of points gets

Edit: Note that Glyphs character rolls more dice at basically everything he is going to do that monkey's. Mine less so, but I was thinking you where going to dump your karma straight into specializing your skills so you get a warm fuzzy feeling of advancement.

Posted by: Marwynn Aug 4 2007, 01:20 PM

QUOTE (weblife)

@Marwynn, being reprogrammable, nothing is mentioned about them being restricted to the "usual" injected nanites, say you load them with an order to build something, say a key you have just handled/scanned. - With the correct programming, it would be possible, and maybe painful, to have them create the item under your skin and prod it out...

This is where I get creative and need input, would this be too far out? - And what structures would they be limited to producing? - Personally I'd stick with relatively simple and small items, nothing electronic. I think its in Rigger 3 where they describe a vehicle built by nanites, then wired afterwards.

Actually the wording pretty much implies it.

"...state-of-the-art hard nanite system that can be reprogrammed (see Reprogramming Hard Nanites, p. 107) with great ease. Wild Card is a Rating 3 non-specialized nanoware system (p. 108) that can be reprogrammed to perform as any internal nanoware systems also at Rating 3..."

That pretty much limits you to the Essence-free nanoware at p. 108.

But then you can do a whole lot with it with your GM's approval. After all, they are experimental nanites, maybe you got injected with nanofax builder nanites or something.

In any case, gotta clear it with your GM first. I don't think he'd agree to your thinking without prior consultation (and bribery and blackmail if necessary!

).

Seen Terminator 2? Replicate the prototype nanite system as something like that; undetectable cyber-spurs, blades, etc. However they'd be limited to that one item.

Just don't forget the Nanohive. And maybe a means of injecting material into your body that the nanites can forge and use as construction materials?

Posted by: noonesshowmonkey Aug 4 2007, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 4 2007, 03:56 AM)

Tomato - Tomatoe

I am glad someone knows what munchkin means. I was pretty sure it was a method of describing a power gamer. Little did I know, I had it all wrong.

Call it what you like. I wonder what qualifies as an "ineffective character"? One with room to grow or one that does not roll 8+ dice on a check? I guess we also differ on what effectiveness means.

I will presume that you read his set up since you tanked strength to one. Literally the kind of strength a small girl has...

Squeezing points from all manner of locations can be done. I am of the school that most people are just that: people. Even the exceptional ones are still somewhat average.

All hail the reign of hemophiliac, sunlight alergic, addicted to "clubbing", gets-sick-like-that-nerdy-kid-in-the-third-grade, throws like a girl (incompetence) Super Assassins that are always getting rained on, can't drink a late without spilling and never get the girl's number but a homometasexual dwarf comes a' callin (bad luck).

Even at 300 points you managed to literally throw dice at problems that were not even really outlined as playable skills in the character outline. I guess some people are really just "good" at character creation.

Better than I am, thats for damn sure.

- der menkey

"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemmingway

PS:
fraggin munchkins.

Posted by: Glyph Aug 4 2007, 10:15 PM

*edit* flames deleted. Not going to bother any more. Sorry, Weblife, but I'm out of this thread. Monkeyboy can go play http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=8834&hl=.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Aug 4 2007, 11:18 PM

Here's a decent archetype to go with. I avoided the Mystic Adept angle because, frankly, they're just not worth it in this edition. Unless it's vital to your character concept (which it didn't seem to be) and your group is planning on being there for the long haul, the costs simply outweigh any possible gains you can get. A regular adept or a regular magician is a much better choice. I went with an adept in this build, but you can easily convert him to a mage for 5 BPs and changing his abilities a bit.

The basic concept is an elf who was basically raised in the slums. Got mixed up with the gang at a young age, has been arrested a few times, but has an inner charm that usually lets him talk his way out of most situations. He probably doesn't even realize he's an adept, though if he does it's likely just a recent revelation. He may just have a reputation for being "psychic" or "lucky" in the gang due to his high Edge, heightened perceptions, and Combat Sense.

I believe he's totally legal, too, including spending less than half his total BPs on Physical and Mental Attributes.

[ Spoiler ]