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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Chicago 2070?
Posted by: Shagu Aug 7 2007, 06:38 PM
I've got a little bit of a dilemma here...
My main (and so far, only) character, a 17-year-old ork, is originally from Chicago. We all know about the bug bombardment and such, but with the group that I play with, they're playing as if Chicago was destroyed by nuclear attacks. Meanwhile, I'm just going by what I've seen on here and on other SR sites and insisting that not only is it still inhabitable, but is alive and well with ample opportunities for runners to get their hands dirty.
Can someone help clear the confusion here? I've also offered to possibly draw out zones for sprawls that no one else has covered; the examples I've given to the group are Detroit(which would make sense as it is the home of Ares Macrotechnology) and Jacksonville, Florida. Any ideas/suggestions/complaints are welcome.
--
Kan Kugarugu, Orkrunner for hire
((EDIT: Scratch that...he'd be better off as a 15-year-old, born at the time of the insect takeover.))
Posted by: Ancient History Aug 7 2007, 06:53 PM
Detroit actually received a basic go-to in Target: UCAS. As for Chicago...
In 2055 an Ares Firewatch team located what many believe to be the largest multi-species Insect Spirit hive in North America, possibly the world, in downtown Chicago. Lacking better alternatives, they destroyed it with a tactical nuclear weapon (an event called The Cermak Blast). Still infested with insect spirits, the UCAS government and Ares cordoned off the area around the blast zone, which quickly degenerated into anarchy, rampant Krieger-strain HMHVV infection (which creates ghouls), and of course the still-extant insect spirits. This area was called the Chicago Containment Zone, or Bug City. A couple years later Ares launched Operation: Extermination, which used the magic-eating FAB Strain III Delta to destroy most of the insect spirits (and practically all of the ghouls), along with seriously warping astral space in the area. Then they pulled out, and the UCAS couldn't (or chose not) to maintain the wall guarding the CZ.
Of course, that was years ago. No telling what it's like now.
Posted by: MITJA3000+ Aug 7 2007, 08:36 PM
Isn't Feral Cities going to have a large segment about Chi-town?
Posted by: Shagu Aug 7 2007, 08:45 PM
It could be like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and we all know what happened to those two cities at the end of WWII. I'm thinking that fifteen years is plenty enough time to rebuild what was destroyed in a low-yield nuclear strike, which I'm thinking would be true of most tactical nukes. Of course, I don't know my atomic weapons that well so I could always be wrong.
As for the insects, they haven't all been killed off but those that remain are more powerful...at least that's what I know. Still, just because there are insect spirits remaining doesn't mean the entire city is uninhabitable. I think it'd be a good idea to show this thread to the GM I usually play with to clarify where I'm going with this. And I can try and find Target: UCAS to get a better idea about Detroit and the surrounding areas...but a city like Jacksonville should be fun, especially to someone that knows the area well enough.
And finally, when is Feral Cities supposed to be out, if it isn't already?
--
Kan Kugarugu, Orkrunner for hire
Posted by: Cynic project Aug 7 2007, 08:47 PM
| QUOTE (Ancient History) |
| Detroit actually received a basic go-to in Target: UCAS. As for Chicago... In 2055 an Ares Firewatch team located what many believe to be the largest multi-species Insect Spirit hive in North America, possibly the world, in downtown Chicago. Lacking better alternatives, they destroyed it with a tactical nuclear weapon (an event called The Cermak Blast). Still infested with insect spirits, the UCAS government and Ares cordoned off the area around the blast zone, which quickly degenerated into anarchy, rampant Krieger-strain HMHVV infection (which creates ghouls), and of course the still-extant insect spirits. This area was called the Chicago Containment Zone, or Bug City. A couple years later Ares launched Operation: Extermination, which used the magic-eating FAB Strain III Delta to destroy most of the insect spirits (and practically all of the ghouls), along with seriously warping astral space in the area. Then they pulled out, and the UCAS couldn't (or chose not) to maintain the wall guarding the CZ. Of course, that was years ago. No telling what it's like now. |
AH, you are growing old, and losing you edge.
Did you forget that it was talked about in SONA? I am preaty sure they tlak about it the MiTS, and maybe even Sota 63 or 64. Not so sure on the Sota books.
Posted by: Ancient History Aug 7 2007, 11:22 PM
Years ago game-time, omae. The only bit on Chicago in fourth edition is the blurb on the Cermak Blast in Street Magic.
Posted by: MYST1C Aug 8 2007, 06:02 AM
| QUOTE (Shagu) |
| I'm thinking that fifteen years is plenty enough time to rebuild what was destroyed in a low-yield nuclear strike, which I'm thinking would be true of most tactical nukes. |
Actually the nuke didn't destroy so much.
It was detonated directly inside the insect hive after the insect spirits had erected a massive magical barrier around the hive that contained most of the explosion before dissolving.
So not only was it "only" a tactical nuke but the blast radius was magically decreased.
Posted by: apollo124 Aug 8 2007, 06:11 AM
It was also detonated underground, if I'm remembering it correctly.
Posted by: MITJA3000+ Aug 8 2007, 11:23 AM
Yeah, what's up with good old nukes not working like they should in the sixth world? I mean, plenty of cases. Most recently System Failure.
Posted by: Wakshaani Aug 8 2007, 12:53 PM
For whatever reason, nuclear energies and magical energies just flat-out don't play well together.
Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 8 2007, 05:37 PM
| QUOTE (MITJA3000+) |
| Isn't Feral Cities going to have a large segment about Chi-town? |
Maybe, but that hasn't been determined with certainty yet.
Posted by: TheMadDutchman Aug 8 2007, 07:07 PM
Having lived the better (or worse-depending on how you look at it) part of 10 years in Jax I don't think it would make a very good sprawl. It's just not compressed enough.
There are a couple of good elements about Jax though:
1. It's all of Duval County so it's more than just Jacksonville, it's Macclenney and all those other little hamlets too.
2. The St. John's river- it's certainly dirty enough to help w/ that cyberpunk feel.
3. It's butted up against Orange Park so you end up w/ two cities instead of one.
4. NAS Jax, nothing like a naval airstation for military intrigue.
The draw backs are basically that I can't think of a good reason for anyone to go to Jacksonville: The nightlife is very lame. Especially since club 5 went by-by. The west side is pretty underdeveloped (I know that's changing but I still can't picture it being a major urban sprawl in 2070).
It's very blue collar- I just don't see any big 10 corporations putting offices there.
Regardless of what I'd do if you proceed w/ building a Jax sprawl and want someone to bounce ideas off of feel free to PM or whatever...
Posted by: Shagu Aug 8 2007, 09:18 PM
| QUOTE (TheMadDutchman) |
| Having lived the better (or worse-depending on how you look at it) part of 10 years in Jax I don't think it would make a very good sprawl. It's just not compressed enough. There are a couple of good elements about Jax though: 1. It's all of Duval County so it's more than just Jacksonville, it's Macclenney and all those other little hamlets too. 2. The St. John's river- it's certainly dirty enough to help w/ that cyberpunk feel. 3. It's butted up against Orange Park so you end up w/ two cities instead of one. 4. NAS Jax, nothing like a naval airstation for military intrigue. The draw backs are basically that I can't think of a good reason for anyone to go to Jacksonville: The nightlife is very lame. Especially since club 5 went by-by. The west side is pretty underdeveloped (I know that's changing but I still can't picture it being a major urban sprawl in 2070). It's very blue collar- I just don't see any big 10 corporations putting offices there. Regardless of what I'd do if you proceed w/ building a Jax sprawl and want someone to bounce ideas off of feel free to PM or whatever... |
Maybe you're right...but I mentioned Jacksonville for a couple reasons. The first, as you mentioned, would be the presence of the military. Military means jobs and possible opportunities for corporations that excel in weapons/defense systems to get involved, and the presence of Ares in Florida has already been well-documented in their holding of Cape Canaveral. Second, the sections of the city would appear to be a hotbed for racial tensions and animosity toward each other if claimed...and even within the sections. (A prime example would be if Southside were in mostly human hands, but the area between Baymeadows and I-295 was mostly inhabited by, say, orks and dwarfs.) Third, you've got the Beaches, where the wealthy live far from the struggles of the city itself. This would be a prime area to hook up with Johnsons that want to employ runners in extraction and corporate sabotage missions...or that retired Mafia boss that needs to settle one final score before he gives up the game for good.
And yes, I do see Orange Park as being mostly ork, troll and squatter country after a particularly...interesting run-in with one of the locals there while I was trying to find a place to live down there. And yes, I can think of all those little hamlets as being in the Jacksonville sprawl...going as far north as Fernandina Beach and south to Ponte Vedra...and if you wanna stretch it, you could include St. Augustine in there as well. The north would probably be borderline barrens until you get to Fernandina and full of metahuman types that can't cut it in the city.
As for nightlife...this is 2070 we're talking about. Switch the 7 with the second 0 and you've got today. (2007) Give it some time and the nightlife will come and/or surface on its own. Even a proud blue-collar city has its places to get down and cut loose.
You'll definitely be hearing back from me soon with ideas for a Jacksonville sprawl...keep in touch, chummer.
--
Kan Kugarugu, Orkrunner for hire
Posted by: Fortune Aug 8 2007, 10:31 PM
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) | ||
Maybe, but that hasn't been determined with certainty yet. |
Can you give us a sneak peak at the list of Cities 'in the running'?
Posted by: TheMadDutchman Aug 9 2007, 01:10 AM
Actually, Orange Park is pretty middle class. It's supposed to have good schools too.
If you want a squatter area I'd suggest Springfield and the north side. Although I don't think Springfield is as bad as it used to be. I knew a guy that owned some property out there that was shot collecting rent but even that was almost 8 years ago.
Posted by: Solomon Greene Aug 9 2007, 01:18 AM
Don't forget, when thinking of future cities, to run them through the hell that exists in SR between "then" and "now".
Economic crashes, attempted genocide, sweeping plagues and the Awakening will change the face of most modern cities. Loosing a majority of your population - especially as people try to flee the crowded cities for the idea of "pristine" and "isolated' countryside will drastically change a suburban area from middle class to z-zone - especially when Vitas kills off the people that were going to repopulate it.
Posted by: MYST1C Aug 9 2007, 06:22 AM
Actually, there exists a full write-up of Chicago as a core setting for a cyberpunk RPG: Chicago Arcology for ICE's CyberSpace system.
It's been OOP for over 10 years but today it's available as an ebook.
Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 9 2007, 06:45 PM
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||||
Can you give us a sneak peak at the list of Cities 'in the running'? |
I can't, really. Feral Cities isn't in the proposal stage yet, so there are no determined cities "in the running." Chicago has been mentioned before because it would fit well with the idea of the book, but until the devs see what sorts of proposals they get, there's no telling what will be in there.
Posted by: Shagu Aug 9 2007, 07:14 PM
Okay, so maybe I'm wrong about Orange Park...and that I shouldn't judge the area by one encounter with a man I thought was gonna level a shotgun at me when he opened the door. But even with the hardships of the future world that may rise, the city will grow and expand as all cities do, especially if there's something favorable about it.
And yes, Springfield...that could be the worst of the worst Z-zones in the city, possibly the region. That and Arlington's got a pretty bad rep too from what I hear; a friend of mine steered me away from an apartment I was looking at when she told me it was in the heart of Sin City. This could be intriguing...and maybe with the help of others, we can create sprawls in cities that haven't been mentioned in any of the past publications...or at least gone over in fine detail. The only sprawls we really know about are Seattle, Chicago and Denver...this should be an interesting community project if one wants to run with it.
--
Kan Kugarugu, Orkrunner for hire
Posted by: Fortune Aug 9 2007, 10:01 PM
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) |
| I can't, really. Feral Cities isn't in the proposal stage yet, so there are no determined cities "in the running." Chicago has been mentioned before because it would fit well with the idea of the book, but until the devs see what sorts of proposals they get, there's no telling what will be in there. |
Ah well, it was worth a try. Thanks anyway.
Posted by: Penta Aug 10 2007, 01:13 AM
My brief beg, if only because my GF grew up there...
Yeah, could we get something on the outer bits of Chicagoland beyond Cook County (Lake County, DuPage County, etc)?)
Posted by: Wakshaani Aug 10 2007, 01:23 AM
| QUOTE (Solomon Greene @ Aug 9 2007, 01:18 AM) |
| Don't forget, when thinking of future cities, to run them through the hell that exists in SR between "then" and "now". Economic crashes, attempted genocide, sweeping plagues and the Awakening will change the face of most modern cities. Loosing a majority of your population - especially as people try to flee the crowded cities for the idea of "pristine" and "isolated' countryside will drastically change a suburban area from middle class to z-zone - especially when Vitas kills off the people that were going to repopulate it. |
As an example, here's what I have for Philadelphia, for my homebrew game. Shows some of what a city's gone through to get where it is today. Not sure if this'll code proper...
Modern Times
The 21st Century
January 1st, 2000, Professor Ben Brown discovered a new species of Ferret in the woods behind his home. This find, a shock in a modern country, let alone in such a populated area, was often played in the media after the latest news on the food riots of the time. This ‘Century Ferret’ was later seen as the first arrival of magic in the modern world, joining a long line of famous Philadelphia firsts. Professor Brown went on to found the Parazoological Society of America,
which in turn became the Parazoological Society of UCAS in 2020.
In 2005, the Great New York Earthquake (better known in Philly as just “The Quake�) struck, all but obliterating the city. Philadelphia absorbed over a million refugees, quickly overwhelming the facilities it could provide, and was unable to prevent hundreds of thousands more from flocking into the city proper. The city’s economy went into a tailspin as emergency services stretched beyond the breaking point, with food riots and shanty towns blighting the landscape. The tumultuous situation caused the New York Stock Exchange to jump to Boston,
rather than the better-prepared Philadelphia, in fear of a cascading collapse of society.
Philadelphia’s nuclear reactors are taken offline after unusual reactions, driven by fears of the Kent meltdown, causing a spike in energy costs that finishes the city’s economy off. By the end of 2006, Philadelphia enters a full-blown depression.
VITAS and Magic
In 2010, VITAS strikes India, then China, then the rest of the world. Philadelphia adds VITAS infection to the list of famous Philly firsts, the infection eventually tracked down to Chinatown and the food market there. Hit harder than most, over a third of the city’s population dies in the plague, as well as half the refugees. Very quietly, the city heals over the next year, with the remaining refugees being absorbed into the empty homes and jobs of the reduced city. By the spring of 2011, the shanty towns are empty, the City of Brotherly Love starting along the path to economic recovery as wealth consolidates in an eerie reflection of the Blague Plague leading to the Renaissance.
At Noon on July 4th, 2011, the Liberty Bell rang three times, a sound that echoed through the streets with an impossible clarity. The Ghost of Ben Franklin was seen at Independence Hall soon after, speaking to a ghostly group of colonials... they didn’t interact with the gawking public, nor were cameras or video equipment able to capture them, but it was one of the more famous incidents of the Year of Chaos. While the sighting of Ryumyo is generally heralded as the start of the magic age, Philly natives point to Franklin’s Ghost as the first spirit manifestation and laid claim to the beginning of the 6th World; while the former is accepted in academic circles, the latter is generally contested only by Pennsylvanian natives.
The Indian War and the Great Ghost Dance
While Philadelphia was far enough away from the announcement of the NAN and the Great Ghost Dance, it earned an unusual distinction during this time. Dating back to the formation of the state, Pennsylvania had long been known for the friendly relations with the Delaware tribe and the Great Pact of William Penn was the only treaty that the Americans never broke. Senator Edward Williamson of Pennsylvania cast the only vote against the Resolution Act of 2016, while several state representatives abstained. There was a small crackdown due to this, with tensions high, but the war itself was distraction enough to keep matters from boiling over. Philadelphia’s shadow media surged during this time, it should be noted, growing only stronger as time went on.
Senator Williamson was part of the UCAS coalition at the Treaty of Denver, a guiding hand at the negotiation table who called on the Great Pact for guidance. The Treaty of Denver holds firm even today, thanks to his leadership, tho he’s mentioned far more in native schools than in the UCAS public education system. Senator Williamson passed away in 2020, sure that he’d done the right thing, no matter the feelings of the rest of what was left of America.
Goblinization
April 30th, 2021, Goblinization struck. Philadelphia had largely weathered UGE without too much trouble, but Goblinization, where you weren’t born an Elf or Dwarf, but, rather, simply became an Ork or Troll ...well, that was a whole other story. With memories of VITAS still fresh in the minds of Philadelphians, camps were set up, quarantines enacted, and repression became the order of the day. The shadow media once again grew in strength, lashing out at the ignorance and panic of the general population, fostering distrust and allegations on every side. Philadelphia was struck harder than any other east coast city and was vritually paralyzed with race riots.
VITAS-2: Electric Boogaloo
The return of actual VITAS in 2022 put a lid on the racial problems right quick, with the Metahumans flushed out for plague victims. The City of Brotherly Love fell back in line, even if at arm’s length, to try and get through the deadly infection. Edward Williamson Jr, elected in a landslide to take his father’s seat, was a key member of the senatorial drive to extend rights to Metahumanity, and a semblance of normallacy returned. Philadelphia even rejected Lone Star, who wanted it to be the first expansion of its policing strength.
Philadelphia was too slow to form the first bachelor of magical arts studies, but was quick on the followup, with four universities offering undergraduate programs and one, Bryn Mwar, offering the first masters degree. The election of 2024 saw President Jarmon elected in a landslide the same year that e-voting was fully enabled, leading the shadow media to, as usual, lash out. Deep investigations were ongoing right up until the Crash of ‘29. As a side note, a huge swath of Philadelphia’s Elves followed the call of Salish-Sidhe Council, roughly a quarter of the Elven population. A handful of Dwarves made the travel as well, but most Orks and Trolls were unable, or unwilling, to join the exodus.
The Crash
The Philadelphia Stock Exchange crumbled on August 9th, 2029, while computer failure cascading across the city, then the state, soon after. Predictably, riots broke out once again, with the city, finally, taking the offered hand of Lone Star to step in and help quell the situation. Surprisingly, Lone Star managed this with a minimal level of violence, shocking the shadow media, to say the least. Lone Star had put the best people it could find into Philadelphia, rightly expecting a massive payoff if it went well. The Philadelphian police, in contrast, engaged in thuggery, went on strike to protest the Star, finding themselves out of a job in 2030 with the arrival of Philadelphia’s first Republican mayor in a hundred years, Jenny McCarthy.
While the average man on the street had simply had enough and voted in the strong hand of McCarthy, Pennsylvania as a whole was, yet again, a driving force behind the formation of the UCAS, with Senator Williamson Jr a co-sponsor of the unification bill. These views seem to clash, but, it was two views of the same situation ... Philadelphia was stressed out, beaten down, and needed a hand. McCarthy promised to keep them safe while Canada offered to get them back on their feet. When the CAS decided to leave, Pennsylvanians, drained from so many conflicts, couldn’t even muster enough energy to stop it. Sen Williamson, beaten down, resigns in the wake of the CAS secession, taking a few years off before re-emerging as a political commentator and writer. His replacement helps pass the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, establishing SIN.
The Night of Rage
Racial tensions bubble over across the nation and even Philadelphia, now known as having the largest Metahuman population in North America, isn’t immune. Feb 7th, 2039, the city burns, but the central planning of Philadelphia was designed specificly to stop rampant wildfires. The race riots die down, and, once again, the city heals. Mayor McCarthy forms a commission on race relations and establishes “MetaZones� for the protection of Orks and Elves. These communities eventually evolve into Tiny Tir and Tuskerville.
2040 and up
Following the establishment of MetaZones, Mayor McCarthy adds the Corporate Sector of West Philadelphia, as well as the Zero Zone of northeast Philadelphia, better known to residents as “The Zero.� A general calm follows for an entire generation as basic fatigue finally drains the upheavals to a bare minimum. Mayor McCarthy is later outed in a financial corruption scandal in ‘42, ending a twelve year run. No Republican has since been elected to the mayorial position. Even the riots following the assassination of President Dunkelzhan are relatively minor, despite his Metahuman-friendly status.
The Year of the Comet failed to make a major inroad in Philadelphia, with the club scene quickly taking to Changelings as a hot new trend which, like all trends, faded away as quickly as most SURGE effects did. Race relations remained on edge, but, the kettle didn’t boil over.
Crash 2.0
A different story was the second crash. When the Matrix went down in 2064, it took jobs with it, and job loss sparked fears of both the depression of ‘05 and the Crash of ‘29. Philly had also been hard-hit by the loss of Fuchi several years back. The detonation of nuclear weapons by Winternight and the EM pulses that followed only helped confuse matters, with the New Revolution’s assassination of President Heffner being the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Philadelphia Today
It took five long, hard years to come back, but the Philadelphia Metroplex is up and running today, fully integrated into the Wireless World and ready for whatever disaster the 6th world can hurl at it. Mayor Robert “Bobby� Lebowski is halfway through his second term and, despite his reputation as being a wembling gasbag, has managed to surround himself with good people. He’s short, pudgy, balding, and seemingly lacks a spine, but he knows when to let experts do their thing and has a befuddling, harmless charm about him. His advisors and the aldermen largely run the show while “The Bob Lebowski�kisses babies, visits ribbon-cutting ceremonies, and stammers his way through press conferences. The corporate sector is booming and the extremely expensive Liberty Web is now fully operational, which has essentially ended civil unrest in the upper and middle classes.
*The Bob Lebowski is, of course, in with the mob, through his Civil Service Secretary, Antonio Fonzerelli. A good sized chunk of the administration as a whole is in somebody’s pocket as well, usually the Megas, while Lebowski blows in the wind. Even among politicians, he’s astounding at measuring the public and reacting to keep them happy. The man can’t string three words together without tripping, has to be dressed by his assistants, and is generally befuddled, but if you spend just five minutes with him, you’ll find him the most charming and harmless guy ever.
* Office Insider
* He also has an aversion to paperwork. Deputy Mayor Callie Briggs handles all the real work, herding cats, making sure all the proper procedures are followed, and, in general, does everything that Bob’s supposed to be doing. She’s a looker, too! What can I say? That librarian look makes my turbines twist.
* T-Bone
Posted by: Wakshaani Aug 10 2007, 01:31 AM
Nope, didn't code correctly at all. Bleah!
I need to go back and rewrite tons of this. It's an *early* draft as I moved on to other, more detailed areas. The mistakes are leaping out to kick me in the face.
Posted by: TheMadDutchman Aug 13 2007, 12:47 AM
One thing you might not be aware if you're new to Jacksonville is the nearly onmipotent level at which the religious reicht rules the city. I've used Jax as a setting for many a WoD game and one of the reasons that it worked so well is how much political power the first baptist church wields in the city.
People always make the assumption that the JudeoChristian faiths are going to dwindle away and die in Shadowrun but I don't believe it. Do I believe there would be a rise in more "modern/6th world" religious beliefs, sure. But the old standards are going to stand firm and where better to present this than in a city like Jacksonville.
Now in many WoD games the tendency has, for all the games I've seen, been to paint organized religions and particularly western european religions w/ a wicked brush. In SR I would do things much more balanced. In a city like Jacksonville you would have various Christian groups that range from reactionary humanis policlub to moderate accepts to super-accepting/embracing of the elements of the 6th world. They would clash w/ the community around them and they would clash w/ each other (this doesn't necessarily mean it would be violent clashes) but at the heart all of these groups would have one thing in common: faith.
Posted by: Shagu Aug 13 2007, 04:16 AM
So you're gonna try and start a war between different religions...or at least the different denominations of Christianity? I'm sure they would've all freaked out during the UGE/Goblinization and SURGE to the point where heads would roll...and that's just among blood relatives. How do you think a devout Southern Baptist couple would react if their only son suddenly turned into a troll overnight? And what about the people that are accepting of the different metatypes?
This could be interesting...
--
Kan Kugarugu, Orkrunner for hire
Posted by: NightmareX Aug 13 2007, 06:20 AM
IMO Shadowrun (purposely?) underplayed the effects the Awakening would have in relation to fundamentalist Christianity. More moderate versions of the religion I could see adapting to the Sixth World, but among fundamentalists initially it would likely be seen as a the work of the devil and a sign of the immanent End Times. I could easily see lots of "troll" (as in the late Troll from Alamos 2000) situations and more than a few deaths from attempted exorcisms. I could also see the less fervent/more skeptical members of fundamentalist faiths quietly deserting to more moderate Christianities. IMO, by 2057 (aka Awakenings) SR has it right - fundamentalist Christianity would be a largely ignored fringe faith, especially when the End Times didn't follow the script or in fact show up at all.
Posted by: TheMadDutchman Aug 14 2007, 01:18 AM
I didn't mean to imply a war-like scenario. What I said was "conflict". This doesn't mean war and it doesn't necessarily mean violence.
Also, I don't believe that the awakening would marginalize Christianity as a faith or any religion as a faith. I think that I know a lot of SR tends to give that impression but I just don't see it. Believing that the awakening would cause over a billion people to lose faith is rather insulting to the billions of people on this planet that practice Christianity, Judaism, or the Islamic faith.
The notion that we (yes, I'm one of them) would just stop believing because someone became an elf or an ork or because people began to practice magic is ridiculous. Especially w/ the stance that the writers indicate that the Pope and most major moderate religious leaders took to integrate metahumanity and practitioners of magic into their ranks.
Regardless of whether there is a God or not people use faith, whatever faith they practice, as a mechanism for self-reconciliation. It's a way to help us deal w/ the problems that everyday life throws at us and a way of looking at things that makes sense to us. These things would not be wavered by goblinization or the awakening of the 6th world. Even if Dunkelzahn had gone on the trid and said "There is no Christian God" Christians wouldn't have stopped believing. Though he probably wouldn't have gotten the Christian vote when he ran for president.
BTW I don't mean for this to spawn a huge religious debate, I'm just laying down my opinion and making as educated a guess as possible on how things would play out in an awakened world.
Posted by: NightmareX Aug 15 2007, 08:12 AM
| QUOTE (TheMadDutchman) |
| BTW I don't mean for this to spawn a huge religious debate, I'm just laying down my opinion and making as educated a guess as possible on how things would play out in an awakened world. |
I responded in in a separate thread on the topic, so as not to disrupt this thread further. Please note that religious debate is not my intention either here or in said thread, and my apologies if the spawned thread is not to your liking/preference either.
Posted by: Shagu Aug 15 2007, 06:31 PM
I'm sure that the religions would accept all metahumans with time, with some even going as far as to say that the sudden metamorphoses are a "direct test from God" or something of that nature. It's the hardliners that I'm questioning here...the ones that are likely to swap their Sunday bests for a pointed hood before going to the weekly Humanis rally. I could go on about how disturbingly similar Humanis is to another famous racial separatist organization...but I'm pretty certain that I'd just be wasting my time.
Though I just had a thought...if certain tensions are still unresolved, then the new weaponry could prove to have some pretty interesting consequences. I mean, think about it...cranial bombs and jihad seems like a match made in heaven, neh? *snerks*
Posted by: NightmareX Aug 16 2007, 05:49 AM
| QUOTE (Shagu) |
| I could go on about how disturbingly similar Humanis is to another famous racial separatist organization...but I'm pretty certain that I'd just be wasting my time. |
It's pretty obvious they're patterned on the KKK.
| QUOTE |
| I mean, think about it...cranial bombs and jihad seems like a match made in heaven, neh? *snerks* |
Cranial bombs - in case of heresy, hit the remote
Posted by: Shagu Aug 16 2007, 09:27 PM
| QUOTE (NightmareX) |
| It's pretty obvious they're patterned on the KKK. |
Figured as much...I mean, the hoods are a dead giveaway.
Posted by: NightmareX Aug 17 2007, 04:42 PM
No prob
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