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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ We need novels

Posted by: JesterX Aug 31 2007, 03:23 PM

There is a *lot* of discussions around technomancers these days...

Some people don't like them at all
Some people don't use them in their campaigns
Some people didn't knew they should be rare, that people should distrust them and so on...

What we need are novels introducing a them as they should be viewed.

I know that they don't have plans for SR4 novels... and that's just really sad. It's killing the game slowly.

Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 31 2007, 03:30 PM

Actually, from what I heard of GenCon, Catalyst has the novel rights now. There's been no official word that there will be novels, as far as I know, but there could be now.

Posted by: cx2 Aug 31 2007, 03:37 PM

Don't forget Holostreets is still apparently in the works, if a little delayed.

Posted by: fumble Aug 31 2007, 03:43 PM

QUOTE (JesterX)

I know that they don't have plans for SR4 novels... and that's just really sad. It's killing the game slowly.

I respectfully disagree - I think Fanpro/CGL is doing a great job at ressuscitating that game we all love.

Their publishing strategy is excellent from a gamer's perspective, and is clearly a compromise for their financial efficiency.
What I mean by this is : they make sure we have a proper gaming environment, with enough sourcebooks, with some of them appealing only GMs (more limited market), instead of hammering everyone's wallet with cool nifty rulesbooks.

So, they published SM, which every magic-loving player bought (and which player has not done at least one awakened character in the past). Presumably, SM sold well.

Then, they published Runner Havens, which is mostly for GMs. Presumably, this didn't sell as well, but if you look at the quality of the book (the like I haven't seen in a long time), you realise that it certainly asked as much time from their dev team as SM (given that tehre are no rules, though, I guess it didn't need playtesting, which is a major hassle removed).

Then, they published Augmentation, which I'm sure everyone who owns a SR4 book will eventually get to buy. That book is extremely well made, and the fluff about the tech (the large large bit before the stats) is so in-depth that it is almost a sourcebook (I personnally think that is exactly what it is, at heart : how does Joe Average interract technology on a day-to-day basis).

They published Emergence (which I haven't gotten to get yet), again a presumably less popular choice, but relevant in explaining TMs and the crash.

They plan on releasing extremely cool setting describing stuff - Corporate enclaves and Feral Cities. All of this is great to give GMs a solid background on which to build their campaigns, and CGL has to be commended for developping a consistent range rather than publish a flurry of rulesbook (with plenty of new, more powerful prestige classes and feats in it...).

What we do miss from the novels days, is some flavour and badassery ideas - but then again, I always thought that the novels were slightly edulcorated, not quite as gritty as they should be...

Posted by: JesterX Aug 31 2007, 03:59 PM

I've taken my source from:

http://www.shadowrun4.com/catalyst/writers_guidelines.shtml

QUOTE

Novels
Catalyst Game Labs is not currently accepting proposals for English-language Shadowrun novels. WizKids is not planning on publishing Shadowrun novels in the near future.

So, is that true or not? I'm confused now...

But I sure hope that you guys are right for the novel things. That would be awesome.

QUOTE

True. They do a great job. But novels can also boost the sale of the sourcebooks they relate to imho.

Posted by: apollo124 Aug 31 2007, 04:13 PM

I asked specifically about novels at the SR meet and greet at GenCon, and after a little bit of discussion, Loren Coleman suggested that some novels may be coming, but stopped short of saying for certain, by whom, or when.

So, YAY!

Posted by: fumble Aug 31 2007, 04:39 PM

QUOTE (JesterX)

QUOTE

True. They do a great job. But novels can also boost the sale of the sourcebooks they relate to imho.

True, true - I hope my post didn't appear as overly defensive or so... I just meant that in my opinion, their concerted and relevant publishing strategy was doing more for the game and its atmosphere than dime novels.

I miss them as well, but it isn't Twist and Sally that got me in SR - I got into Twist's misadventures after I was blown away by my first SR games (the character creation was so incredibly new back then... letting you tweak this and that to finally get to exactly what you wanted).

What was great about having novels was that your players sometimes had an idea of what it was they were facing, whithout exactly knowing everything about it (and most particularly, the finer technical details

). That led to some seriously insect spirit paranoïa after one of them had read 2XS - a bit like an urban legend the character had heard about, in fact....

Has anybody read the Born to Run series ? I found them extremely poor - and uber boring. It was a physical effort to finish reading the 3 I foolishly bought (always start with the first one and see from there...).

Cheers,
Fumble.

Posted by: Adam Aug 31 2007, 04:45 PM

Just to make things clear: at this time, Catalyst Game Labs does not have the novel rights, but we are, as the saying goes, "Exploring all possibilities."

Posted by: JesterX Aug 31 2007, 05:12 PM

QUOTE (fumble)

What was great about having novels was that your players sometimes had an idea of what it was they were facing, whithout exactly knowing everything about it (and most particularly, the finer technical details

I faced the same thing too ^_^ it was really great roleplaying since my players knowed a bit more about the context.

As for the Born To Run novels, I found them exceptionnally poor too... Like if it was written for a younger public... And guess what? This was the case, they were written to promote the Shadowrun: Duels action figure game.

Posted by: JesterX Aug 31 2007, 05:14 PM

QUOTE (Adam)

Just to make things clear: at this time, Catalyst Game Labs does not have the novel rights, but we are, as the saying goes, "Exploring all possibilities."

Thanks for the reply, Adam.

Can you tell us why Catalyst arn't accepting Novel submissions from independent writers?

Is it a Wizkids decision?

Posted by: cx2 Aug 31 2007, 05:29 PM

If they don't have the rights to publish novels there's no point accepting submissions for novel ideas is there? A bit like accepting a few clips of ex-ex when you don't have anything to shoot them out of

Posted by: Adam Aug 31 2007, 05:37 PM

QUOTE (JesterX)

Can you tell us why Catalyst arn't accepting Novel submissions from independent writers?

We don't have the license to publish Shadowrun novels, so we aren't at the stage yet where we would be looking at novel proposals from anyone.

Posted by: Zhan Shi Aug 31 2007, 06:49 PM

I like novels for the behind the scenes perspective they give. Especially the Dragon Heart trilogy, with it's backround on the crash virus, the Ghost Dance spike, etc. While sourcebooks are limited in what backround they can provide, the novels can go into much greater depth...who would have guessed that Alice Haefner and Damien Knight were lovers? And not only is Ryan Mercury a physad and drake, but aparently he also awakened as a mystic adept, and now has Harlequin as a teacher. Not to mention the truth behind Dunk's "assasination"...he was'nt killed at all, but killed himself to power the Dragon Heart. I hope to see more stuff like this in the future.

Posted by: Adarael Aug 31 2007, 07:53 PM

No new novels! Down with them!

That said, my main problem with game fiction is that in general, game liscence-related novels are as follows:
1) They not only encourage but revel in precisely the kinds of excesses I don't want to see in my games, they actively encourage it with their protagonists. Drake Supermodel PhysMage Rockstars? SURE! Lesbian Stripper Ninjas? AWESOME! Hell no. I don't want that shit anywhere near any game of mine unless it's like, Feng Shui or something, in which case that's ALL I want.
2) They are almost always written like crap.
3) Often, they directly contradict known shit about the game world. See the invention of "Yakashima."
4) Often, they directly invalidate in-game actions, especially if they are made after the game material they tie in with. Take "Harlequin's Back" by way of example. The PCs, by hook or crook, manage to defeat the undefeatable. They learn about the world, about themselves, and about ancient lore that no sane creature should have to be shouldered with. They brawl and hang on by the skin of their teeth to save a world that will never know what they did. And then, oh yeah, Dunk aces himself because he's really the guy that saved the world and the PCs were just band-aids on a sucking chest wound and couldn't have stopped it anyway. Where's the fun in that? Not to mention the fact that they engage retconning Dunk's very MANNER of death. Nobody sacrifices themself like that in freaking public and leaves a huge-ass mana warp. I don't care if they're a dragon or not. It's like a samurai comitting seppuku by using a dirty bomb - if the act is intended to fix ills, why leave a bunch of magical warps out in public when you disappear in mid-freaking-sentence.
5) See "generally crap" once again.

That said, I'm not against game-based fiction. I'm against 'crap', which is usually what readers get.

Posted by: Backgammon Aug 31 2007, 07:57 PM

I was waiting for someone else to say it first, but yeah, the novels are crap. You need cyberpunk fiction, go read a real cyberpunk book. I for one don't want Catalyst to direct even a little of it's energy away from SR sourcebooks and sourcebook related projects. The novels aren't worth it.

Edit: What I DO want though if for them to reinstate in an actual 'ok, for real THIS time" kinda way the fiction on the website, in an actual monthly/bi-monthly way instead of a pretend by-monthly way.

Posted by: Zhan Shi Aug 31 2007, 11:05 PM

Ah, well. To each his own. But we do agree that Catalyst's most important goal must be to release new SR game books.

Nigel, you are sorely missed.

Posted by: Casper Sep 1 2007, 01:29 AM

QUOTE (Adam)

QUOTE (JesterX @ Aug 31 2007, 12:14 PM)

Can you tell us why Catalyst arn't accepting Novel submissions from independent writers?

We don't have the license to publish Shadowrun novels, so we aren't at the stage yet where we would be looking at novel proposals from anyone.

Is Roc just sitting on it?

Posted by: Adam Sep 1 2007, 04:00 AM

To the best of my understanding ROC doesn't have it right now; they elected not to renew after the last batch of six Shadowrun novels, so WizKids doesn't have it licensed to anyone currently.

Posted by: NightmareX Sep 1 2007, 07:09 AM

Personally, I liked many of the novels (2XS and Burning Bright being my favorites after the Secrets of Power trilogy, Into The Shadows and Wolf & Raven rocked too). A few (the DHT, Shadowboxer, the Forever Drug, etc) were pretty damn craptastic. Overall though, the novels have had little effect other than window dressing and the occasional name drop (ie a Seattle radio announcer in one of my short stories has a thing for Sally Tsung) on my campaigns or fan fic even. It's a YMMV thing I guess.

I'd definitely like to see a new ongoing series of novels though.

Posted by: Eugene Sep 1 2007, 12:51 PM

While the "Born to Run" novels aren't fabulous, the first one at least wasn't a bad light read if you didn't mind the "young" language. Ironic, actually, since many of the best YA novels don't write down to their audience.

Don't dismiss the rest of the Roc series entirely, though. Drops of Corruption and A Fistful of Data were pretty good, and nothing earthshattering or crazy happens in them. Just tales of deceit, scheming, and criminality...

Out of all of the new ones, "Drops of Corruption" is IMHO the best.

I'm a fan of Shadowrun fic (like Winterhawk's stuff and what's on the Shadowrun website), and I for one would like to see more of it, whether it's on the web or in print.

Posted by: JM Hardy Sep 1 2007, 01:45 PM

QUOTE (Eugene)

Out of all of the new ones, "Drops of Corruption" is IMHO the best.

Aaaaaand that makes this as good a place as any for me to check into this thread. Thanks Eugene!

Here's what I can say: At GenCon 2006, I made it my personal crusade to save Shadowrun fiction. I held meetings. I made sure various people talked to each other. I worked the con as best I could, and I thought I made good progress. I left GenCon ready to follow up until things actually happened.

I kept following up through the end of 2006, prompting whoever I could on the subject, wondering why there hadn't been more progress. Then, in early 2007, the switch to Catalyst happened. I learned some things then about why more progress hadn't happened in 2006, and I used every opportunity as the change was happening to remind people to think about SR fiction.

Which brings us to GenCon 2007, when I once again took up the cause. Good things happened, and I believe progress was made. I can't give details, but I am optimistic about progress on both the novels and Holostreets fronts. I'm going to keep working on Loren Coleman and whoever else I can to get things to happen, but at this point I don't think I need to do much work--most everyone's on the same page. By the time GenCon 2008 rolls around, I hope I will not need to be scrambling to save SR fiction. I hope by that time it will be clear to everyone that SR fiction is a living, growing area.

A couple quick notes about why Catalyst is not accepting manuscripts: First, as Adam noted, they do not have novel publishing rights. Hopefully that will be resolved soon, but until it is there is no sense in spending any time reviewing manuscripts.

Second is a sad business fact. By the time any novels start coming out, it will be a year since the 6 Wizkids SR novels came out--and those novels had pretty much no promotion. The profile of the line has dropped precipitously. If Catalyst decides to go with new SR novels, they'll want to relaunch the line with a splash (we talked about resurrecting Nigel Findley to start us up, but sadly SR rules don't allow for that). That likely means no new writers to launch the line.

But that's just for the launch. If the line continues, then the need for new writers will definitely be there. If I was looking to get into SR novels if/when they come about, I'd be sharpening my skills by writing stories for Holostreets (which, as a matter of fact, I am doing), and flooding the editors as soon as that site is launched. Just look at what happened on Battlecorps--two writers, Kevin Killany and Ilsa Bick, were widely praised for their stories on BC. The MechWarrior: Dark Age editor noticed them and brought them on to do novels. To date, Bick has written three MW:DA novels, while Killiany's second is due out early 2009. As with BC, Holostreets will likely serve as a great "farm team" for the novels. You can build a reputation among the fans and the SR powers that be. Be ready to be active there.

Okay, this was longer than I thought it would be, but I hope it was helpful and appropriately optimistic. Just wanted to say that I will continue pushing for SR fiction from Catalyst until it happens.

Jason H.

Posted by: Aaron Sep 1 2007, 02:46 PM

I weep that there are no new Shadowrun novels but there are new Magic: the Gathering novels.

But I have faith. Loren L. Coleman is my second-favorite author of BattleTech fiction, and if he and IMR go for that license, they might get Shadowrun in the deal.

Posted by: apollo124 Sep 2 2007, 04:06 AM

Just slightly off-topic here, but JM Hardy, do you think Ilsa Bick knows that in Battletech sometimes the characters do get into the big robots and fight? Just saying, it doesn't seem to happen often in her books. They either don't get around to fighting, walk into assassination attempts, or strap into the mech and watch their nemesis fall from orbit. Other than that and needing a bachelor's degree in Japanese to read it, she does a good job writing the books.

Posted by: JM Hardy Sep 2 2007, 04:12 AM

QUOTE (apollo124)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's aware of the existence of 'Mechs. But as long as she's having fun doing what she's doing, I'm not inclined to interfere with her. She's tougher than me.

Jason H.

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Sep 2 2007, 04:24 AM

Soooo Jason, I recall you saying something a year ago about working more Drop bears into your stories.

We're waiting. We're watching.

Posted by: JM Hardy Sep 2 2007, 12:29 PM

QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)

Soooo Jason, I recall you saying something a year ago about working more Drop bears into your stories.

We're waiting. We're watching.

I plan on using the letter D, R, O, P, B, E, and A in every SR story I do. I hope that will suffice.

Jason H.

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Sep 2 2007, 05:55 PM

That should help a lot yeah. What can we do to lobby for 'R'?

Posted by: Demonseed Elite Sep 2 2007, 06:05 PM

He's already using 'R', it's the second on his list!

Posted by: Synner667 Sep 2 2007, 10:15 PM

Hi,

Just a quick jump-in.

I've said it before, and I stand by it..
..Without scenarios, SR will die an ignoble death.

Yes, I know there are scenarios on the website, yes I know old scenarios are available. yes I know sourceboks can be used for scenarios, yes I know there are 3rd party scenarios..
..But if I was a new player or ref, I'd not have much to do WITH my character.

Think about it..
..You buy the rules, and then what ??

Read sourcebooks..
..To add further info ??

Great..
..But it doesn't give the players and refs anything to do - apart from look at their characters and wonder how a session is played.

I was under the impression that with the new edition, new rules, change of background, etc the idea was to encourage new players and refs..
..So where's the material to help them do that [apart from the starter rules that have been just been done] ??

Old hands like myself can write scenarios, convert material from other places, put together campaigns, etc..
..But with no scenarios, there's little context for someone new.

Just my thruppence..

Posted by: Caine Hazen Sep 3 2007, 03:59 AM

QUOTE (Synner667 @ Sep 2 2007, 06:15 PM)

I've said it before, and I stand by it..
..Without scenarios, SR will die an ignoble death.

Yes, I know there are scenarios on the website, yes I know old scenarios are available. yes I know sourceboks can be used for scenarios, yes I know there are 3rd party scenarios..
..But if I was a new player or ref, I'd not have much to do WITH my character.

http://www.shadowrun4.com/missions/index.shtml I believe fills the "scenario" role, as well as many of the ideas from the plot books. I mean at this point having the number of missions currently out would keep a once a week GM busy for at least 3 months.

QUOTE (Synner667 @ Sep 2 2007, 06:15 PM)

Think about it..
..You buy the rules, and then what ??

Find a group and then play?

QUOTE (Synner667 @ Sep 2 2007, 06:15 PM)

Great..
..But it doesn't give the players and refs anything to do - apart from look at their characters and wonder how a session is played.

On the Run should handle the basic "teach a new GM and Players" method, as well as the quick-start. Sooner or later however, you need to have a GM who will do some work to keep things moving.

This is also the place where we vote for JM Hardy for the new launch novel (which I couldn't do because I was running the sound at the "What's Up" session.. and I'm sticking to that as my excuse)

Posted by: apollo124 Sep 3 2007, 04:52 AM

Count my vote for that. I just didn't vote there, because I'm kinda slow on the uptake and didn't realize he was a potential author.

The only way I recognized Loren was 'cause he's written, what 30, 40 Battletech novels? And he was introduced as an author. And they had some of his books downstairs at the Con, just a short distance from the Catalyst booth.

Posted by: Bull Sep 3 2007, 05:02 AM

Re: Modules/Scenarios

On the Run helps teach newbies how to run a game.

Missions is a great resource for pregenerated, free, official adventures. Just because they're on the internet doesn't make them less useful, and being Missions games does make them at least moderately official SR material.

Finally, some of the sourcebooks are filled with ploty hooks and adventure seeds. Emergence, for example, provided a handful of adventure seeds at the end of each chapter, ways to incorporate the emerging plotlines into your current game. Sure, tehy're not fully fleshed out adventures, but they're enough to provide a GM with a couple ideas to build a game around.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, Modules simply don't sell well, unless they have D&D stamped on them (And even then, I think those are definately on the low end of teh sales charts). Many GMs don't like them because they feel tehy can do just as good a job, some Gms and groups don't like them because they're too confining, and sometimes they're just not very good.

They're also much harder, IMO, to write than almost any other product. Especially for SR. D&D modules can be pretty linear with no ill effects... they're usually dungeon crawls after all. But an SR adventure can and should be a lot more complex. There's a lot more detail taht should go into them, and you have to work the story from several different angels to cover trhe various options PCs have with how to proceed.

Bull

Posted by: apollo124 Sep 3 2007, 05:13 AM

Only sad thing about that, Bull, is guys like me. One of my players (and good friend) told me to my face that I was a good GM, as long as I wasn't running one of my home-grown adventures. I can do a good module though.

I can understand how tough it must be. Even with a module, I've had players run off on a tangent that you guys would have had no way to cover. (Breaking into the morgue and chopping the head off the deceased didn't make it into the module)

Posted by: Bull Sep 3 2007, 05:20 AM

PS. Don;t get me wrong, I love modules. They provide a nice, static "Shared world" for players to talk about. I always have fun talking about my experiences playing and GMing Mecurial, Dragonhunt, Universal Brotherhood/Missing Blood, etc.

By the same token, things like Renraku Shutdown that aren't a static module, but rather a set of ideas and plot hooks, also makes for some fun shared experiences, but everyone's going to approach it from different angles, and you can have some vastly different experiences.

Different strokes and all taht...

Bull

Posted by: Bull Sep 3 2007, 05:23 AM

QUOTE (apollo124)

I can understand how tough it must be. Even with a module, I've had players run off on a tangent that you guys would have had no way to cover. (Breaking into the morgue and chopping the head off the deceased didn't make it into the module)

Ouch man, that's a bit rough.

There's always the Missions games, which are pretty decent from what I've seen. And at one a month, they're nice for keeping a group busy most of the time.

Bull

Posted by: hyzmarca Sep 4 2007, 04:07 AM

QUOTE (Adarael)

I think you're underestimating the logic of Dunkie's decision.

First of all, we was the President of the UCAS; a quiet private suicide was out of the question. If he died in private then it would be obvious that something was very wrong. Only a fake public assassination would avoid undue public panic and throw off speculation.

Second, it was an Astral Rift, not a mana warp. The two are completely different things. And the rift served his purposes by giving his brother a passage back to Earth from the Deep Metaplanes.

Posted by: Adarael Sep 4 2007, 06:29 AM

Maybe, but it all had to be explained after the fact, and still invalidates the heroism of Harlequin's Back. Dunk could still have had hisself offed in private without letting loose astral horrible shit on a main avenue, for pete's ake. It's just totally gauche. He was a public airwaves Dragon, sure, but not a cheap tabloid dragon.
AFAIK, Dunk's death was a decision based on the fact that Nigel Findley died, not as planning for Ghostwalker. As a good send-off to the character, and an acknowledgement of the fact that the character couldn't exist without the OOC originator.

It's the latter part, really, that I care about. Even the former I can forgive, given SR's rather stellar record for doing so in other circumstances. I just don't like a novel to tell me "Yeah, by canon? Your PC's actions don't mean squat. In the long run."

Posted by: hyzmarca Sep 4 2007, 07:16 AM

Saying that Dragonheart negated the heroism of Harlequin's Back is sort of like saying that Hiroshima and Nagasaki negated the heroism of Iwo Jima or that the second season of Buffy somehow negates the heroism of the first season of Buffy.

In Harlequin's Back, the runners saved the world, literally. We were, at most, ten minutes away from an early Scourge. They stopped this premature Scourge, saving the world. But, lo, the world is threatened again. This time it is saved by Cyberzombie Free Spirit Dunkie, Ms. Nipples, and Ryanthusaur. This still does not change the fact that if not for the efforts of the runners in Harlequin's there would not be a world to save.

There is always another Apocalypse. If Buffy is any indication there is, at a bare minimum, one Apocalypse per year, often two or three. All of them matter because each one is the end of the world.

And, guess what, it is all just a giant bandaid on the Heat Death of the Universe. No matter what we do, the universe will end. And if we look at it that way it negates all human accomplishments. Nothing that anyone does can possibly matter in the face of the inevitable and inescapable death of the universe. It all means squat in the long run.

And the scourge will still come in a couple thousand years.

Postponing doom is important. If it weren't, then we'd all be better off just shooting ourselves in the face and getting it over with.

Posted by: dog_xinu Sep 4 2007, 12:58 PM

QUOTE (JesterX)

QUOTE (Adam @ Aug 31 2007, 11:45 AM)

Just to make things clear: at this time, Catalyst Game Labs does not have the novel rights, but we are, as the saying goes, "Exploring all possibilities."

Thanks for the reply, Adam.

Can you tell us why Catalyst arn't accepting Novel submissions from independent writers?

Is it a Wizkids decision?

if they dont have the rights to publish shadowrun novels then why accept submissions? they cant produce/print the novel without the rights are they get into lawsuit where they will probably lose lots of money. it wouldnt be good for anyone.

Now if they can get the rights to publish novels (that they come up with or not) then that is a different story. But by his posting they dont have the rights at this time.

whenever you get "license", "rights" and lawyers involved it can get touchy/ugly. Let them hash it out and they will let us know when they have the rights/ready for submissions.

Posted by: apollo124 Sep 4 2007, 02:16 PM

QUOTE (Bull)

Ouch man, that's a bit rough.

There's always the Missions games, which are pretty decent from what I've seen. And at one a month, they're nice for keeping a group busy most of the time.

Bull

For myself at this point, it's kind of moot. I don't even know if anyone in my county plays or has even heard of SR. I don't really have a group up here anymore. The Missions are awesome, and if I still had a group, it would be great.

Posted by: Bull Sep 4 2007, 02:53 PM

QUOTE (apollo124)

Unfortuately, at this point, the lack of local game group is tough to get around. IRC, PBB, and Teamspeak style gaming only get you so far, and don;t suit many players wants or needs. I know that I much prefer to be physically hanging out with folks, to feel and hear the dice, etc.

I haven't really played SR in years now. OUtside of a handful of playtest sessions for SR4, and a couple aborted attempts to start new games, there's been woefully little SR activity locally :/

Of course, the fact we've all "grown up and gotten real jobs" doesn't help matters any, as scheduling anything is a nightmare these days.

Posted by: apollo124 Sep 4 2007, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (Bull @ Sep 4 2007, 09:53 AM)

Of course, the fact we've all "grown up and gotten real jobs" doesn't help matters any, as scheduling anything is a nightmare these days.

AMEN!

Ummm, does working in the roleplaying game industry count as "growing up and getting a real job"?

Posted by: Adam Sep 4 2007, 10:47 PM

It sure doesn't leave as much time for gaming as most people would suspect!

Posted by: apollo124 Sep 5 2007, 04:27 AM

Just razzin' on you guys. I know you all live under a lot of stress that most of us out here don't take into account.

"When is Unwired coming out? Have you called that publishing house about the cover art? Is the distribution set up for the next sourcebook? Where is SoLA? I want that next book perfect, and when it isn't, I'm gonna go on Dumpshock and complain!"

Been guilty of a few of those myself.

Posted by: Grinder Sep 5 2007, 08:27 AM

QUOTE (Bull)

I haven't really played SR in years now. OUtside of a handful of playtest sessions for SR4, and a couple aborted attempts to start new games, there's been woefully little SR activity locally :/

I never had problems to find enough fellows for a gaming round. In fact, at the moment I have too many different groups to choose from. Guess that's an advantage that Germany is so small and crammed with people.

Out of sheer curiosity, Bull, where are you living?

QUOTE

Of course, the fact we've all "grown up and gotten real jobs" doesn't help matters any, as scheduling anything is a nightmare these days.

*shrugs* I'm running an ED campaign for six years now and despite a few player changes and some of us working shifts, we never had trouble to game every tuesday.

Posted by: Fortune Sep 5 2007, 08:36 AM

Maybe I should move to Germany!

Posted by: Grinder Sep 5 2007, 10:18 AM

North Germany, of course!

You're welcome, but be warned: the weather is not as nice as in Down Under.

Posted by: Bull Sep 5 2007, 12:36 PM

QUOTE (Grinder)

Cleveland, Ohio.

Oh, finding Gamers isn;t really the problem, nor is it finding SR players even. It's finding active SR players close enough by.

Dunner runs Missions games out of a shop on the West Side of town, but as that's an hour or more drive, it's a bit far for me.

At one point there were probably 3 to 4 active SR groups locally, playing at least weekly. But most of those players have moved on. THere are a lot of games out there, the groups change up from time to time. And since most of our groups are pretty incestuous (Player 1 will game with both group A and B, player two with A and C, Player 3 Plays in A and B and GMs for D, etc), I've also noticed the games tend to cycle in and out as a group. Everyone plays SR for a couple years, then someone starts up Deadlands, and then everyones playing it, and then D&D, and so on.

And of course there's also the matter of who I actually want to play with. My free time and play time is limited enough now that I honestly don;t have the tolerance for hanging out and playing with people I don;t really like that much. It used to be no big deal, but these days... I can;t be arsed with dealing with them.

Right now we do Board Games on Saturday nights (And I occasionally GM a Post Apocolytic Fantasy game I wrote up), and Sundays we do D&D (lucky me).

Bull

Posted by: Redjack Sep 5 2007, 01:03 PM

QUOTE (Bull)

and Sundays we do D&D (lucky me).

Pssstt... I heard that causes cancer...

Posted by: Grinder Sep 5 2007, 01:24 PM

QUOTE

Right now we do Board Games on Saturday nights (And I occasionally GM a Post Apocolytic Fantasy game I wrote up), and Sundays we do D&D (lucky me).

Ah, it isn't so bad for you then. That's cool.

QUOTE (Bull)

And of course there's also the matter of who I actually want to play with. My free time and play time is limited enough now that I honestly don;t have the tolerance for hanging out and playing with people I don;t really like that much. It used to be no big deal, but these days... I can;t be arsed with dealing with them.

I completly agree with you here. What's the point in playing with people who are jerks? Makes wonder every time when I read a complaint about a player on a board.

Posted by: bibliophile20 Sep 5 2007, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Bull)

QUOTE (Grinder @ Sep 5 2007, 03:27 AM)

Out of sheer curiosity, Bull, where are you living?

Cleveland, Ohio.

Bah. Figures that I find out after I leave...

Posted by: Fortune Sep 5 2007, 02:44 PM

QUOTE (Grinder)

North Germany, of course!

I thought that was a given.

QUOTE

You're welcome, but be warned: the weather is not as nice as in Down Under.

I'm sure I'll manage. I spent enough years in Canada getting frostbite.

Posted by: Fortune Sep 5 2007, 02:47 PM

QUOTE (Grinder)

What's the point in playing with people who are jerks? Makes wonder every time when I read a complaint about a player on a board.

Because unfortunately not everyone can afford to be too picky.

Posted by: Grinder Sep 5 2007, 02:57 PM

Maybe, but what's the point in gaming every week with social retarded suckers who you wouldn't even talk outside of the gaming room?

Posted by: Grinder Sep 5 2007, 02:58 PM

QUOTE (Fortune @ Sep 5 2007, 04:44 PM)

QUOTE (Grinder @ Sep 5 2007, 08:18 PM)

North Germany, of course!

I thought that was a given.

QUOTE (Fortune @ Sep 5 2007, 04:44 PM)

QUOTE

You're welcome, but be warned: the weather is not as nice as in Down Under.

I'm sure I'll manage. I spent enough years in Canada getting frostbite.

It's not that cold here, but rahter wet. No australian summers.