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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Cyber Without a Body
Posted by: James McMurray Sep 4 2007, 01:14 AM
Can you get cyberware or nanoware without a body to put it in, by replacing the body with the appropriate nutrients and temperature ranges?
Basically, can one get a nanohive without having to implant it?
If not, how much for a comatose clone on permanent life support? 
Posted by: Big D Sep 4 2007, 03:26 AM
You mean, to manufacture nanites that you would then periodically use on yourself without having to fork over the essence for the nanohive? Or, to sell to others for similar reasons?
Clone costs are provided, and are pretty cheap, all things considered. Life support costs would be trickier; I'd tend to place the cost towards the high end of care, because of all of the support and monitoring, but then again, isn't that how clones are maintained and kept ready for use? If so, then it wouldn't be really much different than the normal costs for keeping a clone handy.
Myself, I keep trying to figure out how to best abuse clone bodies (on paper) with Inhabitation. Lots of ifs, thens, and maybes there (do nanites *work* in an Inhabited body? Which toys work, which get overwritten or ignored, and which just plain don't apply?).
Posted by: nathanross Sep 4 2007, 05:09 AM
Cyberware can be purchased without plans to implant, though that is virtually pointless. A nanohive is not a nanite factory, though it can produce very limited numbers of nanites, its main purpose is to catch nanites before they are expelled from the body in the form of waste or blood.
Posted by: Jaid Sep 4 2007, 05:30 AM
| QUOTE (nathanross) |
| Cyberware can be purchased without plans to implant, though that is virtually pointless. A nanohive is not a nanite factory, though it can produce very limited numbers of nanites, its main purpose is to catch nanites before they are expelled from the body in the form of waste or blood. |
not in SR4, it isn't.
in SR4 it is explicitly capable of producing more nanites of whatever variety(or varieties) you have floating around in your blood.
of course, why this doesn't allow it to produce varieties you don't have in your blood is beyond me...
Posted by: Cthulhudreams Sep 4 2007, 05:40 AM
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
not in SR4, it isn't. in SR4 it is explicitly capable of producing more nanites of whatever variety(or varieties) you have floating around in your blood. of course, why this doesn't allow it to produce varieties you don't have in your blood is beyond me... |
In limited quantities - it also includes modifications to the rest of you to make sure you don;t lose the ones you have too.
Posted by: Draconis Sep 4 2007, 10:25 AM
| QUOTE (Big D @ Sep 4 2007, 03:26 AM) |
| Myself, I keep trying to figure out how to best abuse clone bodies (on paper) with Inhabitation. Lots of ifs, thens, and maybes there (do nanites *work* in an Inhabited body? Which toys work, which get overwritten or ignored, and which just plain don't apply?). |
Hmm do share. I might use a few ideas myself.
Well seeing that inhabited bodies can use cyberware and nano is cyber, it would generally follow that they could use nano.
Wow, I just suddenly saw where you where going with that. Or maybe just where I could go with that. Hmmm I could lessen the effect of allergy: insecticide (severe) with nano. Muhaha.
Posted by: Synner Sep 4 2007, 01:19 PM
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
not in SR4, it isn't. in SR4 it is explicitly capable of producing more nanites of whatever variety(or varieties) you have floating around in your blood. |
Actually that would be in SR3. Nanohives were toned down slightly in SR4 on purpose. Nanohives in SR4 are capable of limited replendishment of nanite depletion using loaded stocks and feedstocks - nanohives only maintain nanoware levels and do so through a variety of processes including filtration and recovery as well as limited production.
| QUOTE |
| of course, why this doesn't allow it to produce varieties you don't have in your blood is beyond me... |
This would be because the nanohive has stocks and feedstocks to produce a very limited amount of replacement nanites and then only for nanoware systems that the nanohive is programmed to maintain in the first place (these are limited in number by the nanohive rating).
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Sep 4 2007, 01:25 PM
| QUOTE (Synner @ Sep 4 2007, 03:19 PM) |
| Actually that would be in SR3. Nanohives were toned down slightly in SR4 on purpose. |
Actually, Nanohives are not 'toned down' at all in SR4. In both SR4 and SR3, they provide storage and slow reproduction though special material feed to be refilled about half a year. That's where similarities end.
In SR4, they include the Nanite filtration implant from SR3 - and they can reprogram hard Nanites. Additionally, they can support multiple Nanite systems - that are interchangable. In SR3, a Nanite Hive only every supported one system... and the type was fixed.
Posted by: Big D Sep 4 2007, 03:47 PM
| QUOTE (Draconis @ Sep 4 2007, 05:25 AM) | ||
Hmm do share. I might use a few ideas myself. Well seeing that inhabited bodies can use cyberware and nano is cyber, it would generally follow that they could use nano. Wow, I just suddenly saw where you where going with that. Or maybe just where I could go with that. Hmmm I could lessen the effect of allergy: insecticide (severe) with nano. Muhaha. |
Actually, I'm the "broken ally" nut, so that's my primary area of interest. That said, I have noted a few times that UB would have been much smarter if they had acquired a few cloning facilities instead of going the "they'll never notice the cult going after the SINless and disaffected, muhahaha" route. Not that it would have been safe--people might have noticed an awful lot of identical siblings showing up.
However, do note that it is *still* an option for mages and bugs alike, and if you have the cash, and plenty of karma or a free spirit waiting for a host, a borged-up genetically-engineered clone body is a pretty dang powerful option for a relatively decent price (especially for allies, since you can abuse ally sustaining to handle all stat buffs and IP buffs, as well as Combat Sense/Deflection).
EDIT: Oh, and don't forget skillwires 5. That is the key to resolving one of the big spirit weaknesses: skill diversity (especially knowledge skills).
Posted by: darthmord Sep 4 2007, 10:01 PM
About the only 'ware that doesn't really help an Inhabiting spirit is mental-ware that boosts Mental Attributes. So the Encephalon and related sorts of items are relatively useless if implanted beforehand.
That said, they can be used if implanted *AFTER* the Inhabitation. The only drawback for the spirit is the same as if your mage got it installed. The reduction of Essence and Magic rating.
Posted by: Draconis Sep 4 2007, 11:11 PM
| QUOTE (Big D) | ||||
Actually, I'm the "broken ally" nut, so that's my primary area of interest. That said, I have noted a few times that UB would have been much smarter if they had acquired a few cloning facilities instead of going the "they'll never notice the cult going after the SINless and disaffected, muhahaha" route. Not that it would have been safe--people might have noticed an awful lot of identical siblings showing up. However, do note that it is *still* an option for mages and bugs alike, and if you have the cash, and plenty of karma or a free spirit waiting for a host, a borged-up genetically-engineered clone body is a pretty dang powerful option for a relatively decent price (especially for allies, since you can abuse ally sustaining to handle all stat buffs and IP buffs, as well as Combat Sense/Deflection). EDIT: Oh, and don't forget skillwires 5. That is the key to resolving one of the big spirit weaknesses: skill diversity (especially knowledge skills). |
Eh I'm not concerned with personal allies, I've had a cybered bodyguard possessed with a force 6 spirit for ages as well as a force 3 ally spirit. Oh and having your ally spirit sustain isn't that big a deal when you go through wards constantly and into high background counts. I've never even bothered to try that route because of that dilemma.
I'm more concerned with overall organizational strength. Essentially I've gone from FPS to RTS.
Lack of skill diversity isn't really that much of a problem. Instead of a person with 5 skills you have 5 people with 1 skill.
Posted by: Big D Sep 5 2007, 02:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| About the only 'ware that doesn't really help an Inhabiting spirit is mental-ware that boosts Mental Attributes. So the Encephalon and related sorts of items are relatively useless if implanted beforehand. |
Encephalon gives bonus dice, not stat buffs. I *think* those are o.k. Ditto with things like reflex recorder. Pain editors are pretty nice, too--with lots of body armor, hardened armor, and a pain editor, the spirit will stay up for a long time.
| QUOTE |
| Eh I'm not concerned with personal allies, I've had a cybered bodyguard possessed with a force 6 spirit for ages as well as a force 3 ally spirit. Oh and having your ally spirit sustain isn't that big a deal when you go through wards constantly and into high background counts. I've never even bothered to try that route because of that dilemma. I'm more concerned with overall organizational strength. Essentially I've gone from FPS to RTS. |
Dang. Got any stories you care to share?
(and is that bodyguard possessed or inhabited?)My thinking for skillwires is that it gets around the ally weakness of only having skills that you know (unless the host knew it), and that at significant karma cost. Sure, with wires it's only a max of 4-6 depending on the skill type, but that means no more defaulting--and you can slot any skill, any language, any background knowledge, and have it work out of the box. It's not *the* killer app, but it's one of the few serious advantages inhabitation has over materialization.
Posted by: Fortune Sep 5 2007, 02:06 AM
The Reflex Recorder adds directly to the Skill involved, just like the Adept Improved Ability Powers. Not that it matters in this instance, but technically it is not a 'boost', or 'dice pool addition'.
Posted by: Grinder Sep 5 2007, 08:20 AM
It's called a "(skill) rating boost" or what? 
Posted by: Fortune Sep 5 2007, 08:28 AM
I don't really know what to call them. The two are differentiated in the following quote by either bolding or italics.
| QUOTE (SR4. pg 109) |
| The unmodified skill rating assigned at character creation or purchased during game play is considered to be the character’s base skill rating. Some abilities and implants (as noted) may increase this rating, creating a modified skill rating. A modified skill cannot exceed the base skill rating x 1.5 (making 9 the maximum possible rating, or 10 with the Aptitude quality). Specializations, spells, and other implants may provide bonus dice to a skill, but do not change the base skill rating. These extra dice are listed in parentheses after the base skill, as in Spellcasting 4 (+2) |
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Sep 5 2007, 08:30 AM
| QUOTE (Grinder @ Sep 5 2007, 02:20 AM) |
| It's called a "(skill) rating boost" or what? |
SR4 doesn't really seem to have much consistency in the way it describes game terms. Sometimes they use one wording, sometimes another. Even worse, sometimes they use the same wording for completely different things (see Capacity; ie, cybereye Capacity vs. cyberlimb Capacity vs. sensor Capacity). Just use your interpretation and common sense in your own games. If in doubt, get a consensus from your group and/or GM.
Posted by: Grinder Sep 5 2007, 10:11 AM
That was the impression I got too - but the possibility that I'm just too dumb to remember the correct term wasn't so small. 
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Sep 5 2007, 11:29 AM
Yeah. That's one of the few things I respect about D&D and the whole d20 System. They actually sat down and tried to hash out official terms for everything, and even concocted a system for determining their priority and compatibility when combined. That's something more game designers need to do, especially in "pen and paper" games where unexpected situations arise on a regular basis.
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