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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Tailored Pheromones

Posted by: Naysayer Sep 12 2007, 05:33 PM

Okay, so I'm twiddling around with a kinda Face-ish build for a change, and naturally, there's no way around tailored pheromones.
So, if looking at the description in the book, am I right if I read that as saying you get +1 Cha/rating AND a +1/rating to your pool for social tests?
I searched the forum, and what I found seemed to confirm my interpretation, but I also find that's quite a big boost for what is essentially a dirt-cheap piece of 'ware, so I'd thought I'd ask you guys just to be sure.

Thanks in advance!

Posted by: James McMurray Sep 12 2007, 05:47 PM

Tailored pheremones do not increase your charisma, they only add their rating as a dice pool bonus to charisma and social tests.

Posted by: Aaron Sep 12 2007, 05:51 PM

For reference, the sentence on page 339 of your hymnal is "Tailored pheromones add their rating as a dice pool modifier to Charisma and Social Skill Tests."

I don't think it's a bonus to Charisma. My reasoning is this: if it was a bonus to Charisma, it would probably read "bonus to Charisma," and not "dice pool modifier." Since it's not a bonus to Charisma, then the bonus must go to "Charisma and Social Skill Tests," which is to say Charisma Tests and Social Skill Tests.

Posted by: Naysayer Sep 12 2007, 05:56 PM

That makes sense (more sense than getting the bonus twice!)
Thanks for clearing that up!

I think the confusion came from the CharGen I'm using, it apparently does the +1 Cha/rating. Seeing that before I checked up obviously influenced my interpretation.
Also, I am as thick as a brickwall right now...

Posted by: Dashifen Sep 12 2007, 06:24 PM

Didn't they add to Charisma in 3rd?

Posted by: Buster Sep 12 2007, 09:23 PM

Which chargen are you using?

Posted by: Naysayer Sep 12 2007, 10:44 PM

Blakkies SR4Chargen, latest version, as far as I know...

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Sep 12 2007, 11:17 PM

yeah, that chargen does that for several things that add to dicepool.

It's only really an issue if you are a mage and then only for your drain stat.

Posted by: James McMurray Sep 12 2007, 11:57 PM

Or if you get Tailored Pheremones.

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Sep 13 2007, 12:12 AM

I was trying to say that the character sheets practise of direct stat ads instead of dicepool mods for tailored pheromones and cerebral boosters for example, is only an issue (really) if you are a mage.

Posted by: Hartbaine Sep 13 2007, 12:24 AM

Since the TP add to Charisma and Social Skill Tests then it would add to the characters Charisma Attribute. For example if they practiced Black Magic and rolled their drain that's a Charisma test since it utilizes Willpower and Charisma.

Some may dispute this, but it seems logical enough. Pheromones are a great asset in enhancing an indivuduals force of personality. The problem lies in that they phrased the description in a manner that specifically allows a character to 'double dip', adding to thier charisma, then also their social dice.

I have always kept them as they were, Rating = Bonus to Charisma Score. Since Social skill tests generally use charisma anyways, by increasing your Charisma you are by proxy, increasing your social pools as well.

But we all have our own opinions.

Posted by: Jaid Sep 13 2007, 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Hartbaine)

I have always kept them as they were, Rating = Bonus to Charisma Score. Since Social skill tests generally use charisma anyways, by increasing your Charisma you are by proxy, increasing your social pools as well.

But we all have our own opinions.

except for anytime someone uses a social skill on you and it's not charisma to resist. which is fairly often.

and cthulhudreams, cerebral boosters *do* add to your logic.

perhaps you're thinking of something else though =P

Posted by: Hartbaine Sep 13 2007, 12:36 AM

Why would you use Pheromones to resist?? Pheromones are not a shield, they do not protect you unless you are emitting pheromones that attract Wired Samurai.

Since the book does not state the actual type of pheromones used (there are several types, but most human pheromones are sex dependant) it's safe to say they are used in an 'offensive' manner, not a 'defensive' one.

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Sep 13 2007, 12:36 AM

QUOTE (Jaid)

QUOTE (Hartbaine @ Sep 12 2007, 07:24 PM)

*facepalms* I could have sworn it was a ddice pool..

Okay I'm an idiot

Posted by: hyzmarca Sep 13 2007, 12:46 AM

Tailored Pheremones don't add to Chrisma-based drain resistance tests nor do they allow you to bind more spirits.

Posted by: Nychuus Sep 13 2007, 12:47 AM

QUOTE (Cthulhudreams)

*facepalms* I could have sworn it was a dice pool..

Okay I'm an idiot

I think the rule of thumb for each cyber\bioware mod is:
Does it make me <blank> better?

Bone lacing does not make you tougher. It makes you tougher when someone applies (for example) a baseball bat to your ribs.

Muscle replacement makes you stronger and more agile.

Tailored pheromone's do not make your pimply, scab-scarred, gangly, flabby, self look closer to Fabio. It may make Johnson wonder why he suddenly feels like taking a chocolate bath with a couple of joygirls right now, but it won't make you look any better.

Excuse me, I have other urgent matters to attend. *Goes off to beat up a dead horse*

Posted by: Hartbaine Sep 13 2007, 01:02 AM

Charisma is not just how attractive you are, it's about how forceful your personality is and how well you can ooze that into other's ballpark.

You can be ugly as all get out and still have a Charisma of 6+, sure you're butt ugly but you're excellent at making friends and are generally a likeable person.

Posted by: Nychuus Sep 13 2007, 01:12 AM

QUOTE (Hartbaine)

You can be ugly as all get out and still have a Charisma of 6+, sure you're butt ugly but you're excellent at making friends and are generally a likeable person.

Whoops, forgot to include that part.

What I meant was about the initial reaction to butt ugliness. No club bunny would send a smarmy text message to Alfred E. Neuman... unless they were into fuglies.

I dunno... ugly cooties? *shrug*

Posted by: hyzmarca Sep 13 2007, 01:17 AM

Tailored Pheromones don't do anything to your personality. They just make you smell good to other metahumans.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Sep 13 2007, 01:20 AM

...so here's an interesting thought what if you had both Tailored Pheromones and Clean Metabolism?

...would they cancel each other out?

Posted by: Nychuus Sep 13 2007, 01:27 AM

QUOTE (hyzmarca)

Tailored Pheromones don't do anything to your personality. They just make you smell good to other metahumans.

Not really smell as in "I smell fried chicken..." more of a "Since I've been around that guy I feel like taking a chocolate bath with a couple of joygirls..."

But I get what you mean

Posted by: Glyph Sep 13 2007, 02:21 AM

QUOTE (Hartbaine)

Tailored pheromes add to Charisma and social skill tests, so they would help resist social skills, too. This is because social skills are interactive, even if one person is initiating an attempt to con, intimidate, or out-negotiate the other person. So while the Johnson is trying to do his "scary suit with lots of connections" bit, the guy with tailored pheromes is giving off alpha male scent, distracting the Johnson and throwing his efforts off balance.

Posted by: cx2 Sep 13 2007, 10:46 AM

The different between increasing an attribute as in muscle toner and adding a bonus to tests as in tailored ferremones becomes very significant in chargens if you are working out whether you hit the cap for boosted attributes

As to the tailored ferremones on resisting social skills, yes I would agree. They make people more inclined to like you or otherwise more malleable, and resisting a persuasion or con attempt is very much a two way street. It isn't so much a case of attack and defence as it is a true example of an opposed action, a lot closer to a tug of war situation than shooting a gun at least.

Posted by: mattness pl Sep 13 2007, 11:23 AM

I read shadowtech ages ago, but...
Tailored Pheromones bonuses works ONLY when interacting with opposite sex, yes?

Posted by: Fortune Sep 13 2007, 11:46 AM

QUOTE (mattness pl @ Sep 13 2007, 09:23 PM)

Tailored Pheromones bonuses works ONLY when interacting with opposite sex, yes?

Nope. Anyone is fair game.

Posted by: cx2 Sep 13 2007, 12:59 PM

Besides, what about gay/lesbian/bi people?

Posted by: odinson Sep 13 2007, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Hartbaine)

I would argue that since it says Charisma and Social Skill Tests that it would only add the dice pool bonus for tests that use both charisma and a social skill. If it said dice pool bonus to charisma or social skill tests then it would apply to all tests that included either but the and means that it would only add to tests that have both.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Sep 14 2007, 12:26 AM

...I can't see Tailored Pheromones adding to any magic/summoning tests, period.

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Sep 14 2007, 12:50 AM

Arn't drain tests are referred too with specific language that clearly is designed to exclude tailored pheromones.

Posted by: Nychuus Sep 14 2007, 01:01 AM

I don't think the mana-sphere or any spirits would care how you *smell*.

Posted by: Glyph Sep 14 2007, 02:12 AM

The last sentence in the description for Tailored Pheromes (pg. 339) says:

QUOTE (SR4)

This bonus has no effect on magical abilities and tests.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Sep 14 2007, 02:59 PM

...thanks.

Posted by: Tarantula Sep 14 2007, 07:54 PM

Examples of why they would say charisma and social skill tests are the attribute only tests described on page 130.

Tailored Pheromones would add to your Composure (Wil + Cha) and Judge Intentions (Int + Cha) tests as well.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Sep 14 2007, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Tarantula)

Because it's easier to stay calm in emergencies if you smell better.

I'm not disagreeing with how it works, just observing, that's all. Maybe you find your own pheromones subconsciously soothing.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Sep 14 2007, 08:21 PM

...so, with tailored (enhanced) pheromones if you went into an ultra paranoid high security installation with Pheromone scanners you should be easier to detect.

Posted by: Tarantula Sep 14 2007, 08:28 PM

Pg 254 KK. The threshold for detection by a pheremone scanner goes from 3 for average metahumans to 2 for those with tailored pheremones.

Posted by: Dancer Sep 15 2007, 02:53 PM

About tailored pheromones... they're legality F, and should be trivially detectable by a properly programmed chemsniffer from a distance of several meters. Given that you can't turn bioware off, isn't this just hanging a big 'arrest me!' sign around your neck?

Posted by: James McMurray Sep 15 2007, 04:53 PM

They're still natural pheremones, there's just a lot of them. Depending on the sec gaurd's mood you might be detained on suspicion of having illegal bioware, but a chem sniffer alone isn't proof. You probably have a chance to talk yourself out of it, and the pheremone boosters will help.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Sep 15 2007, 10:10 PM

QUOTE (Tarantula)

Pg 254 KK. The threshold for detection by a pheremone scanner goes from 3 for average metahumans to 2 for those with tailored pheremones.

...thanks for the ref.

I also see that female characters have a slight disadvantage depending on the time of month.

. If she has Tailored Pheromones she can be in real trouble.

Posted by: WhiskeyMac Sep 15 2007, 11:36 PM

I grew up with 3 sisters so I can't imagine what a woman with a gun would be like during that time.

Posted by: bibliophile20 Sep 16 2007, 01:26 AM

QUOTE (WhiskeyMac)

I grew up with 3 sisters so I can't imagine what a woman with a gun would be like during that time.

Must take that into account for my female NPCs...

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Sep 16 2007, 01:49 AM

...yeah, nobody (especially elves) better piss off the Short One during that time. She's known to load her Warhawks with EXEX