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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Creation Story
Posted by: SonofaSailor Sep 13 2007, 04:41 PM
Perhaps AH or someone with knowledge could provide a short summary of the cannon creation story? ie; who/what made the 1st world? Where did dragons, metahumans come from? etc.
I'm running a new game and I'd like to know, primarily because it might be an interesting story, and lend depth. Who knows, maybe someday my players with unearth the truth....
Posted by: eidolon Sep 13 2007, 05:21 PM
There are as many creation stories as there are groups that have a creation story in the world.
It's Earth, just an Earth that took a different turn. So the answer would completely depend on who you were asking (or, as in would be the case when researching the 1st world, would depend on whether there was anything recorded or not).
Posted by: SonofaSailor Sep 13 2007, 05:45 PM
I understand that, what I am looking for is the Cannon creation, not what metahumans came up with. I figured that the developers of ED prbly had one, describing how the first world came to be, etc.
Posted by: neko128 Sep 13 2007, 05:54 PM
| QUOTE (SonofaSailor) |
| I understand that, what I am looking for is the Cannon creation, not what metahumans came up with. I figured that the developers of ED prbly had one, describing how the first world came to be, etc. |
Well, you could argue that the Big Bang theory is like a Cannon. They both involve explosions of a sort.
Unless you meant Canon, in which case, well, there isn't one that I'm aware of. I'll admit I'm not nearly as familiar with Earthdawn as I am with SR, though...
Posted by: SonofaSailor Sep 13 2007, 05:58 PM
| QUOTE (neko128) | ||
Well, you could argue that the Big Bang theory is like a Cannon. They both involve explosions of a sort. Unless you meant Canon, in which case, well, there isn't one that I'm aware of. I'll admit I'm not nearly as familiar with Earthdawn as I am with SR, though... |
You caught me. Need to remember to use that darn spellchk......
Posted by: neko128 Sep 13 2007, 06:00 PM
| QUOTE (SonofaSailor) | ||||
You caught me. Need to remember to use that darn spellchk...... |
Couldn't resist. It was just too good a slip to let pass.
Posted by: Ancient History Sep 13 2007, 06:37 PM
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/EDDragons.pdf
p.21, the Origin of the World.
That's the dragons' version, anyway. Other races and cultures have their own.
Posted by: SonofaSailor Sep 13 2007, 06:56 PM
| QUOTE (Ancient History) |
| http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/EDDragons.pdf p.21, the Origin of the World. That's the dragons' version, anyway. Other races and cultures have their own. |
Somehow, I just knew you'd come thru...
Many thanks.
Posted by: Ancient History Sep 13 2007, 07:22 PM
De nada.
Posted by: Eryk the Red Sep 13 2007, 08:35 PM
Even in the context of SR canon, that sort of information is always questionable. Even coming from dragons. They're smart, but not always honest. And quite as capable of hubris as humans.
You can always yourself conclude that one version of Creation is true, but when you break it down, all are meant to be stories, and, on some level, speculation (unless we assume someone is divinely inspired). Since almost all SR setting information (and usually Earthdawn setting info, as far as I know) is presented in character, it is all subject to bias. Which is good. I don't think I would willingly accept any one explanation of Creation as definite truth in an RPG if we expect the characters not to know it.
(That was always the flaw in Exalted. Setting info would be provided and followed by "NOBODY IN EXISTENCE KNOWS THIS". Then, as a player, you have to keep asking yourself whether it's possible for your character to know certain things about the settings. I was told that there's no reason for my character to assume that the Deathlords were bad guys. They're called Deathlords!)
Posted by: SonofaSailor Sep 13 2007, 10:54 PM
Interesting,
So Dragonlore has all the races from the first dragon, itself created by a Horror ( well THE Horror if you will ).
Posted by: Draconis Sep 14 2007, 02:10 AM
| QUOTE (SonofaSailor) |
| Interesting, So Dragonlore has all the races from the first dragon, itself created by a Horror ( well THE Horror if you will ). |
Yes but it was a nice horror. So that's ok.
Posted by: NightmareX Sep 14 2007, 06:04 AM
| QUOTE (Eryk the Red) |
| Even in the context of SR canon, that sort of information is always questionable. Even coming from dragons. They're smart, but not always honest. And quite as capable of hubris as humans. You can always yourself conclude that one version of Creation is true, but when you break it down, all are meant to be stories, and, on some level, speculation (unless we assume someone is divinely inspired). Since almost all SR setting information (and usually Earthdawn setting info, as far as I know) is presented in character, it is all subject to bias. |
Very true save for the game information in Horrors, which verifies the story to a degree given that Verjigorm's (ie the Dark One's) stated motivation is consistent with the dragon's myth (as I stated in the ill-fated Moleskin thread).
Of course, only the great dragons and immortal elves have a chance of knowing this, and they aren't going to share that knowledge with the public any time soon if at all. And then of course, there is the matter of who would believe them...
Posted by: Eryk the Red Sep 14 2007, 01:21 PM
Well, I'll still stick with the philosophy of "never trust a dragon". My version of the SR world is far from canon, anyway. (Albany was decimated by Algonquin extremists in my SR world, for example.)
Posted by: Cweord Sep 14 2007, 03:53 PM
Ok, I recognize the code from IMTU, but where do I find the details for IMSU?
(In My Traveler Universe, In My Shadowrun Universe for the uninitiated)
Cweord
Posted by: NightmareX Sep 15 2007, 07:47 AM
| QUOTE (Eryk the Red) |
| Well, I'll still stick with the philosophy of "never trust a dragon". My version of the SR world is far from canon, anyway. (Albany was decimated by Algonquin extremists in my SR world, for example.) |
Perfectly cool IMO (not like my opinion matters of course
). I always found it rather odd that Verji's (who is essentially God by that story) stats were so...well...low in comparison to his stated role in the myth.Wait...if Verjigorm is God, does that make Nightslayer Satan? Hah! Interesting parralels
Posted by: Jame J Sep 16 2007, 01:52 AM
| QUOTE (Cweord) |
| Ok, I recognize the code from IMTU, but where do I find the details for IMSU? (In My Traveler Universe, In My Shadowrun Universe for the uninitiated) Cweord |
Oh, wow! Another Traveller player here!
Posted by: hyzmarca Sep 16 2007, 05:50 AM
| QUOTE (NightmareX) | ||
Perfectly cool IMO (not like my opinion matters of course ). I always found it rather odd that Verji's (who is essentially God by that story) stats were so...well...low in comparison to his stated role in the myth.Wait...if Verjigorm is God, does that make Nightslayer Satan? Hah! Interesting parralels |
Dragon myth doesn't match archaeological evidence and doesn't account for the past existence of other hominids. An uplifting of existing hominids into the current metahuman races is far more likely than a creation from scratch, particularly since Alter Life is easier to use successfully than Create Life is. Also, we know that the Age of Dragons was roughly 20,000-15,000 years ago and the beginning of the First World was roughly 25,000 years ago. However, there was mundane life millions of years ago. Assuming that that the creation story is entirely literal, the existence of non-horror life on Earth millions of years ago is simply impossible. Some parts of the story must either be metaphorical or inaccurate.
More than likely, during the 0th World (at least 25,000 year ago), the Scourge was entirely limited to the Deep Metaplanes and it was Nightslayer who fist discovered a way to cross from the metaplanes to Earth. Earth, then, already had life for millions of years, though it was life unlike anything he knew. Then he most likely used a form of Alter Life or a version of the Forge Horror Construct power to transform existing homonids into the metahuman races, some lizards into the Tskrang, and some very small homonids with butterflies glued to their backs into the Windlings.
The Dragons probably came from a form of Create Life or comparable power, though it might be possible to make one through the judicious use of Unnatural Life and Forge Horror Construct on mismatched dinosaur fossils.
Posted by: nezumi Sep 16 2007, 10:30 AM
Because I feel like boasting a bit...
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=6116&hl=enki
Posted by: NightmareX Sep 17 2007, 12:13 PM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Some parts of the story must either be metaphorical or inaccurate. More than likely, during the 0th World (at least 25,000 year ago), the Scourge was entirely limited to the Deep Metaplanes and it was Nightslayer who fist discovered a way to cross from the metaplanes to Earth. Earth, then, already had life for millions of years, though it was life unlike anything he knew. Then he most likely used a form of Alter Life or a version of the Forge Horror Construct power to transform existing homonids into the metahuman races, some lizards into the Tskrang, and some very small homonids with butterflies glued to their backs into the Windlings. The Dragons probably came from a form of Create Life or comparable power, though it might be possible to make one through the judicious use of Unnatural Life and Forge Horror Construct on mismatched dinosaur fossils. |
Sounds plausible to me, given that you're right on the archaeological/fossil evidence. The idea of Nightslayer being the first Horror to find it's way to this world is actually a rather nice explanation of that one. Kudos!
And Nezumi, thank you! Don't have time today, but looks to be an interesting read
Even with the emphasis on the Simon Necronomicon
Posted by: Draconis Sep 18 2007, 10:33 AM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | ||||
Dragon myth doesn't match archaeological evidence and doesn't account for the past existence of other hominids. An uplifting of existing hominids into the current metahuman races is far more likely than a creation from scratch, particularly since Alter Life is easier to use successfully than Create Life is. Also, we know that the Age of Dragons was roughly 20,000-15,000 years ago and the beginning of the First World was roughly 25,000 years ago. However, there was mundane life millions of years ago. Assuming that that the creation story is entirely literal, the existence of non-horror life on Earth millions of years ago is simply impossible. Some parts of the story must either be metaphorical or inaccurate. More than likely, during the 0th World (at least 25,000 year ago), the Scourge was entirely limited to the Deep Metaplanes and it was Nightslayer who fist discovered a way to cross from the metaplanes to Earth. Earth, then, already had life for millions of years, though it was life unlike anything he knew. Then he most likely used a form of Alter Life or a version of the Forge Horror Construct power to transform existing homonids into the metahuman races, some lizards into the Tskrang, and some very small homonids with butterflies glued to their backs into the Windlings. The Dragons probably came from a form of Create Life or comparable power, though it might be possible to make one through the judicious use of Unnatural Life and Forge Horror Construct on mismatched dinosaur fossils. |
So you're saying these "aliens" altered the life on earth giving them a bump up the evolutionary ladder? Now they've come back in the sixth age to harvest the bounty as it where? The idea sounds suspiciously familiar.
Mismatched dinosaur fossils!? Oooo you're just asking for it aren't you?
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