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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Martial Arts and running speed.
Posted by: Phaeton Nov 27 2003, 08:35 PM
Does anyone think that if you perform a flying kick from a dash there should be a damage upgrade based on how fast he's running? I have a street-sam with twin kid stealth legs, knee spurs, retract. handblades mounted in the feet, Quickness upgrade 2 for both legs, STR enhancement level 2 for both legs, and retractable cyberskates mounted in them. Personally, I think the guy could do a lot of damage if he had a running start. 
...Anyway...What do you say?
Posted by: ThatSzechuan Nov 27 2003, 08:38 PM
Just be prepared to take some damage yourself if you miss. 
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 27 2003, 08:41 PM
Not to mention a target number penalty ranging from +4 (running) to +6 (running on difficult terrain). If it came up in one of my games, the most I would do is add a little to the Power of the attack, but not by much. Maybe +1 per Running Modifier above ×2. I'd also treat it as if it were a "burst fire" for purposes of defeating hardened or vehicle armor. In other words, it wouldn't help out in those situations.
Posted by: Phaeton Nov 27 2003, 08:43 PM
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| Not to mention a target number penalty ranging from +4 (running) to +6 (running on difficult terrain). If it came up in one of my games, the most I would do is add a little to the Power of the attack, but not by much. Maybe +1 per Running Modifier above ×2. |
That works. Although this character is an athletic freak...I'll bother calculating his max potential running speed later.
Posted by: Backgammon Nov 27 2003, 10:18 PM
It's also freakishly easy to dodge for a prepared opponent.
Posted by: Siege Nov 27 2003, 10:21 PM
You can make a case for that logic with jumping spin kicks and the like in Tae Kwon Do and other styles.
Certainly adepts with stupid amounts of Athletics dice (and/or Great Leap) should be interested in adding jumps, spins and various other acrobatics to increase the power of their attacks.
For that matter, just leaping in the air and landing on an unsuspecting target -- contrary to the WWF, 280 pounds of mass _landing_ on someone's back will leave a lasting impression.
Quick mechanic:
1) +1 power for every two Athletics successes.
2) Character must make Athletics check to land safely or take damage.
3) If the initial Athletics roll fails to generate any successes, not only does the attack fail but the character must make the landing check as per normal.
-Siege
Posted by: Siege Nov 27 2003, 10:23 PM
| QUOTE (Backgammon) |
| It's also freakishly easy to dodge for a prepared opponent. |
Unless it's a target that can't really dodge -- like someone on a horse...or motorcycle.
Thank the Mongols for Tae Kwon Do!
-Siege
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 27 2003, 10:26 PM
| QUOTE (Backgammon @ Nov 27 2003, 04:18 PM) |
| It's also freakishly easy to dodge for a prepared opponent. |
Hence my suggestion to use the target number modifier. Note that it also makes a counterattack pretty devestating.
Posted by: Phaeton Nov 27 2003, 11:24 PM
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| You can make a case for that logic with jumping spin kicks and the like in Tae Kwon Do and other styles. Certainly adepts with stupid amounts of Athletics dice (and/or Great Leap) should be interested in adding jumps, spins and various other acrobatics to increase the power of their attacks. For that matter, just leaping in the air and landing on an unsuspecting target -- contrary to the WWF, 280 pounds of mass _landing_ on someone's back will leave a lasting impression. Quick mechanic: 1) +1 power for every two Athletics successes. 2) Character must make Athletics check to land safely or take damage. 3) If the initial Athletics roll fails to generate any successes, not only does the attack fail but the character must make the landing check as per normal. -Siege |
Hmm. All of that works.
Now the real pain in the arse is the rules for applying martial arts manuevers to weapons and cyberblades.
Posted by: Fortune Nov 27 2003, 11:27 PM
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| Now the real pain in the arse is the rules for applying martial arts manuevers to weapons and cyberblades. |
It isn't really a pain in the ass. As I said in the other thread on this topic, just allow Maneuvers to be acquired for any Melee skill instead of just for Martial Arts.
Posted by: Phaeton Nov 27 2003, 11:46 PM
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
It isn't really a pain in the ass. As I said in the other thread on this topic, just allow Maneuvers to be acquired for any Melee skill instead of just for Martial Arts. |
Basically make it so you don't have to buy manuevers twice to enable them for use with weapons and cyberblades?
Posted by: Siege Nov 28 2003, 04:00 AM
Exactly -- use the martial arts rules to determine how many techniques a character can buy for a weapon form.
I think the specific example was "Whirling" or maybe "Multi-attack". If Jack Daniels, dreaded street fighter uses his twin cyber spurs to properly execute the "Drunken Sailor Rolled on a Corner" technique which uncannily resembles the Ancient Elven form of Carromoleg's (sp) "Twist the Silly Pansy", he can just buy the technique with his "unarmed combat" skill.
Now, if you already have the technique and want to use it with a skill that you haven't purchased it for, I'd recommend the averaging idea I suggested earlier.
-Siege
Posted by: Cain Nov 28 2003, 04:22 AM
To go back to the original question: use the charging attack option on p 86 of CC. With the high quickness that character has, he's virtually guaranteed the necessary movement. What's more, he can have moved the 2 meters at a walk, so he doesn't take nearly as many movement modifiers.
Posted by: Fortune Nov 28 2003, 04:34 AM
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| I think the specific example was "Whirling" or maybe "Multi-attack". If Jack Daniels, dreaded street fighter uses his twin cyber spurs to properly execute the "Drunken Sailor Rolled on a Corner" technique which uncannily resembles the Ancient Elven form of Carromoleg's (sp) "Twist the Silly Pansy", he can just buy the technique with his "unarmed combat" skill. |
Actually, he'd add it to his Cyber-Implant Combat skill.
Oh, and I love the Twist the Silly Pansy maneuver.
| QUOTE |
| Now, if you already have the technique and want to use it with a skill that you haven't purchased it for, I'd recommend the averaging idea I suggested earlier. |
I disagree with this though. Just because a character has the Close Combat maneuver for Unarmed Combat, that shouldn't mean he can use it for any and all Melee skills he possesses. Maneuvers are cheap enough as they are that there is no need to do the 'average thing' in order to make them work. Pay the 2 Karma for each skill that you want to use that specific maneuver with.
Posted by: mfb Nov 28 2003, 04:45 AM
er, funk, there's no mod for running in melee. and if difficult ground applied, it'd apply equally to all combatants.
if it were up to me, i'd change the +1 for charging to +1 per 10 mpt.
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 28 2003, 04:46 AM
That's why I said I'd apply the running multipler myself. I didn't think about using the charge option, though (mostly because it's never come up). That's a much better solution.
Posted by: Siege Nov 28 2003, 07:20 AM
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||||
Actually, he'd add it to his Cyber-Implant Combat skill. Oh, and I love the Twist the Silly Pansy maneuver.
I disagree with this though. Just because a character has the Close Combat maneuver for Unarmed Combat, that shouldn't mean he can use it for any and all Melee skills he possesses. Maneuvers are cheap enough as they are that there is no need to do the 'average thing' in order to make them work. Pay the 2 Karma for each skill that you want to use that specific maneuver with. |
Glad you enjoyed the "Twisted Pansy" maneuver.
As for the average idea, it's designed to reflect a character taking knowledge in one style and blending it with other styles and techniques.
It would be like a karate student mixing in muay thai to develop his own personal style.
That being said, I was unaware of the two karma point purchase -- I thought it was X number of maneuvers based on your skill level. My GM doesn't use the system so I'm not as current on the numbers as I should be.
So yes, I'd just pay the two karma points and save yourself the headache.
-Siege
Posted by: Fortune Nov 28 2003, 07:47 AM
| QUOTE (Siege @ Nov 28 2003, 06:20 PM) |
| That being said, I was unaware of the two karma point purchase -- I thought it was X number of maneuvers based on your skill level. |
Normal (canon) rules for maneuvers are that they are purchased for 2 Karma Points (or Build Points at chargen) per maneuver. A character can purchase 1 maneuver for every 2 points they have in a Martial Arts skill (IE. a skill of 6 means that the character could have 3 Maneuvers for a cost of 6 extra Karma). More maneuvers can be purchased, but the cost in both Karma and Build Points rises to 8 for each Maneuver after the preceding limit is exceeded.
Posted by: Dim Sum Nov 28 2003, 08:13 AM
Hmmm, Fortune, did I read it wrong or isn't it that you HAVE TO purchase a maneuver for every 2 skill levels in a martial art? So, if you had a martial art skill of 2, you could not advance further without purchasing a manuever.
Posted by: Fortune Nov 28 2003, 08:31 AM
IIRC, you can have a Martial Arts skill of 3 without having any Maneuvers, but cannot advance to 4 unless you purchase a Maneuver.
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 28 2003, 01:25 PM
| QUOTE (Dim Sum) |
| Hmmm, Fortune, did I read it wrong or isn't it that you HAVE TO purchase a maneuver for every 2 skill levels in a martial art? So, if you had a martial art skill of 2, you could not advance further without purchasing a manuever. |
Unfortunately that's basically correct. It's a "special advantage" of the Brawling martial art where you don't have to buy a maneuver. It's a very nozzed-up system.
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