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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Skills
Posted by: Casazil Nov 29 2003, 12:58 AM
Ok some posted a new active skill on here so I thought I would post one that seems to be lacking in the game not sure though as to weather it would be active or knowledge?
COMMON SENSE
Used to determine if what your about to do will be a smart thing to do.
I figure it would be nice to see it a game skill because then maybe we as humanbeings will learn to use it again.
Posted by: Siege Nov 29 2003, 01:00 AM
Nickles...quarters...dimes....
Oh, wait...common sense...
-Siege
Posted by: Fortune Nov 29 2003, 01:07 AM
Is it not already an Edge?
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Nov 29 2003, 01:08 AM
Nuuhh, I rather see it as an Attribute. And humans get a -5 modifier on it.
Posted by: Chodav Nov 29 2003, 01:10 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Nuuhh, I rather see it as an Attribute. And humans get a -5 modifier on it. |
Oh, sheesh, must be one of those uppity arrogant elves flapping his dandelion-licking lips again . . .
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Nov 29 2003, 01:13 AM
Oh, the metahumans would have -6.
Posted by: Siege Nov 29 2003, 01:18 AM
MUUUUAAAAAWWWWW...cower in fear before my "Twisting the Pansy" maneuver!
-Siege
"Practicing Carromeg since I learned to pronounce the bloody name..."
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Nov 29 2003, 01:20 AM
Google gave me nothing with either "Twisting the Pansy" or "Carromeg", and thus I'm officially clueless as to what the heck the above message is trying to say.
So sweeee-eeeet to be a nonativespeakerofenglish...
[Edit]Oh, right, Carromeleg as in the elven martial art... Right. So twisting the pansy is... Right.[/Edit]
Posted by: Siege Nov 29 2003, 01:26 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| [Edit]Oh, right, Carromeleg as in the elven martial art... Right. So twisting the pansy is... Right.[/Edit] |
Ha! I can pronounce it, but I can't spell it.
-Siege
Posted by: Tziluthi Nov 29 2003, 01:37 AM
So what type of martial art is "carr, oh me leg" meant to be, anyway? I remember reading somewhere that it's meant to be like capoirea (sp?).
Posted by: Chodav Nov 29 2003, 01:40 AM
| QUOTE (Tziluthi) |
| "carr, oh me leg" |
That's what the pirate said after the shark got to him, right?
Posted by: Siege Nov 29 2003, 01:47 AM
| QUOTE (Tziluthi) |
| So what type of martial art is "carr, oh me leg" meant to be, anyway? I remember reading somewhere that it's meant to be like capoirea (sp?). |
I seem to recall that as well -- the Capoeria thing, that is. I don't have a clue as to where they made the connection.
As for what it _actually_ is, I have no idea. Those silly ancient Elves and their goofy mysteries.
I chalk it up to the same school as "Ancient Elven Blade Singing" and similar goofiness.
-Siege
Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Nov 29 2003, 04:55 AM
| QUOTE (Siege) | ||
I seem to recall that as well -- the Capoeria thing, that is. I don't have a clue as to where they made the connection. |
The cannon companion i believe
Posted by: Lilt Nov 29 2003, 05:40 AM
Oh well. Another thread devoted to discussing marial arts then?
Posted by: Casazil Nov 29 2003, 05:46 AM
Actually NO it was orginally set as a discussion on the possible skill of COMMON SENSE but it seems to have gone off topic oh well.
Posted by: Connor Nov 29 2003, 11:20 AM
A Common Sense skill just isn't needed as it's covered by the the Edges and Flaws system. If you wanted to, I suppose you could make it a level based edge, similar to the Gremlins flaw, so the more points you put into it the more helpful it is...
Posted by: nezumi Nov 29 2003, 02:31 PM
Why would you ever want a common sense skill? Then you have no excuse to kill off your players.
Posted by: Luke Hardison Nov 29 2003, 06:40 PM
Common sense edge ... depending on how your GM takes it, it can be the greatest thing ever for new players. If they're doing something that a veteran player would never try, the GM can say, "Your common sense warns you of the consequences of that action.
Posted by: Zazen Nov 29 2003, 08:51 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| Why would you ever want a common sense skill? Then you have no excuse to kill off your players. |
Murdering a player because he lacks common sense? That's harsh, man!
Posted by: nezumi Nov 29 2003, 11:08 PM
No, I kill players when they kill themselves (read the CLUE files to get an idea). If a character is dumb enough to run in alone through a house full of 40-80 gangers, all armed, that is a terminal want of common sense. Now I will agree that I have a slight sadistic streak in that I get a tiny bit of pleasure from characters who put themselves in positions which are really hard for me to justify letting them out of, but I'm still not an evil GM in any way (if you ask my players, so far the only ones I've killed were ones who stopped playing, or who have ignored big, obvious signs saying 'I will kill you if you do this').
Posted by: Fortune Nov 29 2003, 11:14 PM
Methinks you are confusing the words 'player' and 'character'. One is an actual person, while the other is a bunch of numbers and fiction on a character sheet.
Either that, or you are a mass murdering maniac.
Posted by: spotlite Nov 29 2003, 11:58 PM
Just to answer the question about carromeleg, from reading the Tir books (both of them), and the various other bits dotted around, I get the impression that it is very Capoeira-like, but I also get the distinct feeling there's a hefty dose of Tai Chi in there as well. Its a very spiritual art, just like Capoeira, but is obviously designed as something elven adepts should make use of so will likely be far more fluid (which is saying something). There are a lot of handstand movements in it, yes, but the main thrust of the descriptions I've read is always the use of kicks, and also the obligatory descriptions of how much like a dance it looks like when practised by experts. However, I get the feeling its a lot less, um, gentle-looking (not looking to cause offence to Capoeira practicioners here) and more combat focused.
Regards common sense. Some modifiers* :
Does the person have more than +1d6 initiative (magic or augmented)? +1 TN# for each extra dice beyond the first
Do they willingly have more than 1 obvious cyberlimb? +1TN# after the first
Do they willingly have an obvious cyberskull? +3Tn#
Do they have a neon hairstyle? +2TN#
Do they use an MGL6 as a sidearm? +2TN#
Have you already asked them if they're sure they want to do that? +4TN#
Base target number is 4. When a player is about to do something really dumb, they roll their skill against 4s plus appropriate modifiers* needing one success for the Gm to ask if they are really sure they want to do that, or two or more for the Gm to slap them upside the head and tell them they don't want to do that. For four successes, the Gm may even explain why!
*These modifiers have been extensively play tested and a strong corroboration has been shown between the above characteristics and the incidence of extreme stupidity.
Posted by: Tziluthi Nov 30 2003, 01:50 AM
Capoeira? Spiritual? If you say so.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Nov 30 2003, 02:14 AM
Was just about to say the same... Also, to be more fluid than Capoeira, you'd have to be really damn sure your legs or hands don't collide into anything, like the enemy.
Posted by: Siege Nov 30 2003, 02:39 AM
I'll third that motion -- Tai Chi is spiritual, Capoeria is just exhausting.
And the only way you could make Capoeria more fluid would involve Quickness 7 elves...
Oh, right...Carromeleg. Doesn't that just sound like a pirate trying to explain something to a paramedic on a bad Friday night?
-Siege
Posted by: Voorhees Nov 30 2003, 02:44 AM
| QUOTE |
| Either that, or you are a mass murdering maniac. |
That must be one group where everyone else is eager to GM...
Posted by: Fortune Nov 30 2003, 03:06 AM
| QUOTE (Voorhees) |
| That must be one group where everyone else is eager to GM... |
Maybe he's on to something. A couple of strategically chosen victims might very well go a long way towards letting me actually play the game instead of always having to GM. Hmmm......
Posted by: Casazil Nov 30 2003, 04:31 AM
| QUOTE (Connor) |
| A Common Sense skill just isn't needed as it's covered by the the Edges and Flaws system. |
Ok and I'm old school Shadowrun I.E. I started with first then moved on so in my opion I think the whole edges and flaws B/S needs to go.
Why because I don't think people should get bonuses for edges like education or common sense or what not let alone negitives for flaws hunted and what not.
You can do all of that stuff in your game heck I use several things in my games but I don't give or take points for it. It's called background story but that is still just my way of playing you can do what you want.
So this is the reason why I was asking should common sense be active or knowledge?
Posted by: Connor Nov 30 2003, 04:41 AM
But common sense isn't really a skill that you can train. Either you have it or you don't. Which is what the Edges and Flaws system is there to take care of. Either you did really well in school and you remember all the trivia and factoids your professor talked about (the education edges) or you were just a normal student or didn't even go to school.
Some people just have certain quirks or things about them that can't fit into anything other than an edges/flaws or gurps quirks style system. In my opinion, common sense is one of these things.
Posted by: Fortune Nov 30 2003, 04:43 AM
I am also an old-school player, having been into Shadowrun since the day it hit the shelves in '89, and I think Edges and Flaws are fine. The Common Sense Edge is a crutch for new gamers, and it works fine for that purpose.
I would never allow a Common Sense skill. In my opinion that is already covered by the character's Intelligence.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 30 2003, 06:50 AM
Why would the Elven martial art be like Capoeira? Did the Elves spend large amounts of their history in chains?
~J
Posted by: Siege Nov 30 2003, 07:01 AM
Cause dandelion chewers are naturally light on their feet and being skinny folk, they would put a stronger emphasis on kicks and using full body motions to add power to attacks in the same manner as Capoeria (sp).
Coupled with the elf's innate love of natural harmony which manifests in song and dance, it seems only fitting to marry the traditions of song and dance with the same artistry applied to combat.
Or, I don't have a fragging clue but it sounds good and the game designer had an itch to use a Capoeria (sp)-like technique.
-Siege
Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Nov 30 2003, 07:02 AM
I tend to give the benefits of the common sense deges to new gamers as well, usally for about 2-3 games, then if they haven't started to work it out then they start getting hurt
Posted by: Fortune Nov 30 2003, 07:28 AM
| QUOTE (Shockwave_IIc) |
| I tend to give the benefits of the common sense deges to new gamers as well, usally for about 2-3 games, then if they haven't started to work it out then they start getting hurt |
I agree. Past the first few games it shouldn't really be necessary.
Posted by: Casazil Nov 30 2003, 07:43 AM
I tend to make use of common sense in my games for new players as well.
I was just woundering on other peoples thoughts about making it a skill so thanks alot fellow chummers.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Nov 30 2003, 12:45 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Why would the Elven martial art be like Capoeira? Did the Elves spend large amounts of their history in chains? |
I'm pretty sure that the whole "Capoeira was created to look like a dance so the slaves could defend themselves, but so that it wouldn't look like a real martial art" thingie is BS. At least so said the one Capoeira-practicing person I've ever known, and the few of the more scientific-looking inquiries into the roots of Capoeira found on the net.
But I'm sure the fact that many/most of the "first" practitioners (at least the first in South America) of Capoeira were slaves influenced it in many ways, and of course you might not have even meant the legend mentioned above when you mentioned slavery. I just thought it worth while to say.
And I still think that if you don't want Edges, Common Sense should be an Attribute, not a skill.
Posted by: Digital Heroin Nov 30 2003, 01:59 PM
If you don't allow the Common Sense edge, and your players lack it, maybe you should just not bother... after all, you're denying them the canon way... or you could just make them roll intelligence for it... *shrug* Don't see a rational to make a revision to the rules when a rule exists...
Posted by: Siege Nov 30 2003, 03:15 PM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) | ||
I'm pretty sure that the whole "Capoeira was created to look like a dance so the slaves could defend themselves, but so that it wouldn't look like a real martial art" thingie is BS. At least so said the one Capoeira-practicing person I've ever known, and the few of the more scientific-looking inquiries into the roots of Capoeira found on the net. But I'm sure the fact that many/most of the "first" practitioners (at least the first in South America) of Capoeira were slaves influenced it in many ways, and of course you might not have even meant the legend mentioned above when you mentioned slavery. I just thought it worth while to say. |
The Philipino styles of Arnis and Escrima have a similar history -- "real" weapons were banned by the conquering Spanish and the natives adapted their styles to sticks and knives.
Weapons were banned in Okinawa, hence the rise of farming implements as weapons in addition to unarmed combat techniques.
Those are two historical precedents that I can think of which lends credence to the "history of chains" behind Capoeria.
-Siege
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