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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Most Useless cyberware
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jan 19 2008, 05:34 PM
Ok now I've seen the threads about the dikoted, Cyberzombie, vampire, ninja armed with a silvergun, and the new rules include the cyber genitals we've joked about for years, one imagines the editor/line designer saying "OK it's been 19 years I give up, let 'm have it." but what do you think is the most useless cyber/bioware in the books and why?
I don't know anyone who's used the hand magnets, especially not like in the pic of the guy, spider man like, hanging on a train or the foot pitons to anchor yourself to the floor-though they do make a hold out weapon.
But I got to go with the cyber tail. not because of it's limited game use-I so do not want to know what you guy are doing with a cyber one eyed worm-but for role playing. it pretty much says 'shadowrunner here' in big chrome letters and even in the post SURGE world you stand out. Clothes ALL have to be tailored for you, you can't go to an entire grade of neighborhood-try hiding that under a tux or LBD- and sitting in a freaking car is nearly impossible.
Other than a really cool picture in the book, did anyone think this was a good idea?
Posted by: FlakJacket Jan 19 2008, 06:04 PM
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| Clothes ALL have to be tailored for you, you can't go to an entire grade of neighborhood-try hiding that under a tux or LBD- and sitting in a freaking car is nearly impossible. Other than a really cool picture in the book, did anyone think this was a good idea? |
I always figured like every most other pieces of cyberware that it's have the option of coming with an on/off trigger so that when it wasn't in use it could be coiled up. The book description says it isn't under conscious control or something like that but if you can turn wired reflexes off why not this as well? Player in a group I was in wrapped it around his waist underneath his shirt , IIRC he eventually wore a homemade strap under his shirt around his waist with belt loops so that it wouldn't flop about as much. And there are enough fat people in the world that baggy clothes and a bit of a bulge around the waist should be able to be passed off in a lot of circumstances. Mind you he was the only person who I ever saw that used it for a PC.
Posted by: Nikoli Jan 19 2008, 06:07 PM
If it had been retractable or at least prehensile then it would be useful.
For my money it's the Single Cyber eye. Sure you get some flavor of only replacing one eye and it actually makes the eye-drone potentially useful, but really, is it necessary?
Posted by: ElFenrir Jan 19 2008, 06:11 PM
| QUOTE |
| I don't know anyone who's used the hand magnets, especially not like in the pic of the guy, spider man like, hanging on a train or the foot pitons to anchor yourself to the floor-though they do make a hold out weapon. |
The Hand Magnets? Those were the cause of one of our funniest moments ever, where my sig came from. One of our players had a cybermage with a bunch of heavy ware, and the magnetic hands. He tried to attach himself to underneath a helicopter with it, after preforming a series of complete and utter blunderous decisions.
We called it the ''Sanctuary Swing into the High-Five Dive'' about a kilometer to the ocean.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 19 2008, 06:33 PM
Wired Reflexes . . granted they add some speed, but they are too expansive to be usefull for anyone who ants to be anything besides fast . . ok so it is compatible with VCR . . but put both VCR and Wired Reflexes into your body and there's nothing left of you most of the time. . . and yes, the magnetic hands are fun stuff to have ^^
you can actually do the jedi trick about getting your weapon into your hand from a short distance away if you prepare it *g*
other than that . . try to get a weapon out of the hand of a troll with STR16 and those things in the hands . . makes a whopping 24 STR to hold on to anything metallic O.o and one COULD stretch that to mean that you can actually get the third point of recoil compensation from strength, if you're supplying the GM with candy ^^
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 19 2008, 06:57 PM
The cyberhorns. A reach -1 weapon that isn't even as concealed as cyberfangs. I can think of good uses for everything everyone's mentioned thus far, and would be sad to see any of them go, but I've never even had a neat idea that involved cyberhorns in an important way.
~J
Posted by: Pendaric Jan 19 2008, 07:02 PM
Tooth compartment. There is just nothing small enough and useful to be hidden.
Posted by: Nikoli Jan 19 2008, 07:08 PM
Well, i used to use it to hide a data chip back in the sr3 days
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 19 2008, 08:06 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| The cyberhorns. A reach -1 weapon that isn't even as concealed as cyberfangs. I can think of good uses for everything everyone's mentioned thus far, and would be sad to see any of them go, but I've never even had a neat idea that involved cyberhorns in an important way. ~J |
not retractable Horns/Fangs . . use on Trolls/Orks and make em look like the natural parts . . best concealed weapon carried in the open ever!
@Toothcompartment: use for little bit of toxin either to kill yourself or immunize yourself against said toxin and use it to give poisonous kisses to other people ^^
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 19 2008, 08:41 PM
Since horns deal (STR)M damage, their only advantage over the standard human fist is that they deal Physical damage, which isn't nothing because of the existence of pain editors and stimpatches, but since the point of Reach gets lost (two points for Trolls, effectively), I'm going to have to say that it's still worse than the open hand. It's not like you can share the skill with something else, either, because cyberhorns use cyber-implant combat and if you've got a different cyber-implant weapon you should be using that instead.
~J
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 19 2008, 10:02 PM
as far as i understand they are meant as a last resort weapon . . or in the case of fangs as an assassination weapon for S&M lovers . .
and as for the skill . . heck, defaulting to unarmed combat would only be a +2 modifier, so i most often go that way . . if i ain't going the whole nine yards of someone who is full with cyber-implant weapons *g*
Posted by: Angelone Jan 20 2008, 04:13 AM
Eyeguns and eye datajacks. I can't imagine a use for an eyegun because they have eyedarts which take away the I use Nacroject™ on it angle. The datajack means you have to stick the thing into your eye which means you lose vision in that eye and if someone sees you they will at best think you are an oddball.
Posted by: Karaden Jan 20 2008, 07:59 AM
| QUOTE (Angelone @ Jan 19 2008, 11:13 PM) |
| Eyeguns and eye datajacks. I can't imagine a use for an eyegun because they have eyedarts which take away the I use Nacroject™ on it angle. The datajack means you have to stick the thing into your eye which means you lose vision in that eye and if someone sees you they will at best think you are an oddball. |
Yeah, but the eye datajack is stealth when not in use, which is good for not broadcasting "Decker over here!!", and who cares if you can't see out one eye while it is in use? You usually can't see anything anyway. Oh, and don't you mean 'eye'ball? *bah bush bush pish*
Posted by: Angelone Jan 20 2008, 09:58 AM
Datajacks are so common it really doesn't matter. Basically everyone has one, so what's the point of trying to hide it? If you really want to hide a datajack you can always get a fingertip compartment and have a datajack installed in it for no additional essense cost iirc.
Posted by: kzt Jan 20 2008, 10:17 AM
Just go subdermal.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 20 2008, 10:33 AM
Yeah, Eye-Guns and Oral-Weapons more or less are useless . . aside from the variation of an Dart with Gamma Scopolamine *g*
Even Trolls will be hard pressed to roll the 8 needed 10's to completely resist the Power of ZZZZ's coming to get them ^^
Posted by: wargear Jan 20 2008, 10:58 AM
The Hand Blade. It's a sodding underbarrel bayonet for my hand. Can anyone honestly say they bought one?
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 20 2008, 11:16 AM
yes, once an not retractable one . . but that was mainly for show and fixed onto replaceable cyberhand together with not retractable Handrazors for . . interrogation-purposes *g*
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 20 2008, 11:56 AM
The SR3 and earlier Cranial Cyberdecks were completely lame (especially in Shadowtech). Instead of setting your entire essence on fire you could spend a lot less money and get your cyberdeck made really small and then carry it in a body compartment. It's even easier to upgrade because it's not in your head.
So for less money and less essence you could get a better internal deck using different rules. What the advantage of the cranial deck was supposed to be was always completely lost on me. Why anyone would scoop out parts of their brain to get the benefits of something they could get from draining parts of their peritoneal cavity is something that the world may never know.
-Frank
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 20 2008, 12:00 PM
main disadvantage of built in cyber-deck?
no way to pull the plug if needed be *g*
also we just did with cyberdecks what the books did with rigger decks and made them available as built into cyberlimbs . . where would i find those rules that allow one to make the deck as small as an pocket secretary or something like that you are speaking about ? O.o
Our Decker(s) would love something like that *g*
Posted by: Fortune Jan 20 2008, 12:51 PM
There are rules for miniaturization in one of the SR3 supplements, but I can't recall exactly which one.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 20 2008, 12:53 PM
*eyes his stack of SR3 stuff vary and sighs* <.<
Posted by: Fortune Jan 20 2008, 01:30 PM
Well, there's the rules for improving Concealability on page 291 of the (SR3) Core Rulebook. Then there is some more rules on downsizing equipment in the spook section of SotA:'64. Might be a couple of good places to start.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 20 2008, 02:06 PM
yes, excellent places to start, thank you ^^
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 20 2008, 08:31 PM
...you not only can downsize but also disguise a piece of gear to look like a common everyday object. Had a character (an fallen angel of the Seraphim) with all sorts of cute little disguised toys from a microtransciver necklace, a cigarette holder that was a single shot microdart tagger blowgun, to a PDA that was actually a sequencer. How James Bond-ish you want to get is pretty much up to your imagination (within the framework of the rules of course).
There is a table of concealbility of normal items that is a useful guide on p 34.
Posted by: Roadspike Jan 21 2008, 05:06 PM
| QUOTE (wargear) |
| The Hand Blade. It's a sodding underbarrel bayonet for my hand. Can anyone honestly say they bought one? |
Goodness yes. Dikote those suckers and they're insane. Pop two into an ork, get him Muscle Aug and Off-Hand Cyber Implant skill and you've got an exceptionally good quisinart. Against other large opponents, the additional Power of the Hand Blade is superior to the additional Damage Level of the Spur.
Most useless cyberware though... hrm... I don't remember the name of the implant (shows how often I use it) but it's the one that lets you shut off all muscle reactions, just like you do with a VCR--except this one doesn't include the VCR.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 21 2008, 05:59 PM
never heard of that implant to be honest O.o
as for cyber-implant weapons . . Spurs with dikote are superior in the arms of a Troll when not using the Canon Companion Close Combat rules for 2 Weapons *g*
BBB says: PN=STR+(STR/2) . . so Strength of 16=16+( 16/2=8 )=24M, with Dikote 26S
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 21 2008, 06:14 PM
..always wanted to write up a decker with an interface spur like Robocop. The only thing they would have needed one of those ridiculous cranial cyberdecks. 
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 21 2008, 06:53 PM
Cyber-Limb and Deck in there like Rigger-Deck
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 21 2008, 07:43 PM
...yeah, that'd work.
Just saw the film last night again, much better ending than the football game earlier.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 21 2008, 08:16 PM
that was one of the house-rules in our group . . basically, if you wanted it in, you got it into your arm . . ok, not things like foor anchor but basically everything else without any limits *g* including cranial cyber-decks . . of course you had to put in DNI for some pieces of cyber that you wanted in there . . for example the cyberdeck needed an dedicated DNI, and the pocket secretary needed it's own DNI and so on ^^
Posted by: Enigma Jan 22 2008, 01:10 PM
The shutting-down-the-reflexes cyberware is the RAS Override. Generally added for otaku, IIRC. Largely useful as a cranial bomb type involuntary implant for those who don't want to blow their minion's head off.
I agree that the Handblade is probably (stats only) the best implanted weapon because of the power increase. It's generally the one I take when I'm getting a cyber implant weapon for a character.
My vote for most useless implant is the Adrenal Gland. Sure you get a temporary (hefty but not exceptional) bonus but for god's sake who wants that with deadly stun immediately thereafter?
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 22 2008, 01:35 PM
Trolls, Orcs, Dwarves, in that Order *g*
add in this other Gadget that does not let you feel Stun-Damage and you're home free to be awesome for hours on end ^^
Posted by: Enigma Jan 22 2008, 01:39 PM
But you've still suffered the stun damage, so whilst you don't feel it until other damage overflows you up to deadly physical, it is massively not worth the (rather limited) bonuses it does provide. Even combined with a trauma damper to lessen the impact of the stun damage, it's still deadly stun damage for no really worthwhile result. Also, it's pretty costly for the Bio Index for what it actually achieves.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 22 2008, 01:40 PM
ok, i fold *g*
Posted by: Roadspike Jan 22 2008, 04:47 PM
RAS Override. Thankee much, that's the useless bit of metal and optic chips I was thinking of. Although I do think the Adrenal Gland is rather useless as well.
And Stahlsteele, Handblades on that same Troll go like this:
BBB Rules: 16 (Strength) + 8 (half Strength) + 3 (Handblade) + 1 (Dikote) = 28M. Trust me, you'll stage it up just fine, and no one, and I mean no one, will stage it down (16 points of Impact armor is still resisting Power 12). Then again, I suppose it's going to be rather hard to stage down 25S too (as I recall, Dikote is only +1 Power).
CC Rules: 16 (Strength) + 3 (Handblade) + 1 (Dikote) = 20M, and you've got 12 dice to stage it up with (6 Skill + 1 Reflex Recorder + 1 Enhanced Articulation + 3 Half Off-Hand Skill + 1 Half Off-Hand Skill Modifiers). It gets even more ridiculous with a Cybered Adept.
Of course, that's overkill in most cases, and not what this thread is about in any case. I just had to defend the Handblade.
Posted by: Siege Jan 22 2008, 05:01 PM
Has anyone ever actually purchased the "Kid Stealth" cyberlegs?
For that matter, has any character made extensive use of a cyberlimb?
-Siege
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 22 2008, 05:03 PM
| QUOTE (Roadspike) |
| And Stahlsteele, Handblades on that same Troll go like this: BBB Rules: 16 (Strength) + 8 (half Strength) + 3 (Handblade) + 1 (Dikote) = 28M. Trust me, you'll stage it up just fine, and no one, and I mean no one, will stage it down (16 points of Impact armor is still resisting Power 12). Then again, I suppose it's going to be rather hard to stage down 25S too (as I recall, Dikote is only +1 Power). |
The important part is against vehicles—14L is still 9L at the first magic point, and is 3L at the second. 25S is only 12M, or 7M at the first magic point, 1M at the second.
I mean, it's not a huge difference, but it is noticeable.
~J
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 22 2008, 05:56 PM
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| Has anyone ever actually purchased the "Kid Stealth" cyberlegs? For that matter, has any character made extensive use of a cyberlimb? -Siege |
i do in most of my designs, but we've basically house-ruled limbs to be even better than they are since augmentation *g*
no limit on capacity to use as long as you don't try something stupid like foot-anchor or skates in hands or something like that *g*
Kid-Stealth once or twice because they are just too damn noticeable . . i use them mostly on dwarves and if i want to make an B/E guy who relies on havy athletics/climbing/running away . .
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jan 27 2008, 05:26 PM
I think cyber limbs in general were seen as big in 1st ed and that whole cyberpunk imagry of the late 1980's but with tech advancments and bioware they have become passe. bioware like augmentation and tone are cheaper and less invasive than limbs.
I hadn't thought of it this way, but none of my group have had cyber limbs-except as replacments for severe damage, so seeing someone with limbs now might be seen as an "old timer" or even retro.
Posted by: Pendaric Jan 27 2008, 07:43 PM
Its the cyberpunk pace of SOTA. Very Gibson. Kinda sucks for gameing though. Little to SLA.
Posted by: kzt Jan 27 2008, 09:45 PM
I don't remember ever having anyone in any local game (3rd or 4th) using a cyberlimb.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 27 2008, 10:23 PM
O.o
for the first time, limbs are actually playable in 4th . . probably not many people who really realized that *g*
they may think:"yeah, the rules are actually making them usefull" but they still feel:"too expansive and useless"
something i sorely missed in 3rd was the part about you being able to adjust the level of sensory sensations you get from said limbs . . read braille or put your arm into a pot of steaming hot water . . then through the pot and then through the stove it's standing on without feeling any kind of discomfort *g*
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