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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Registered Sprites
Posted by: Seven-7 Jan 21 2008, 03:12 AM
Ok, here's some facts:
- Technomancers may purchase REGISTERED Sprites in CharGen.
- To REGISTER Sprites requires a RES+REG Test.
- Out of C.G. Tasks are not limited at all, in fact, when REGISTERING Compiling skill is no where to be seen.
- YET for some reason REGISTERED Sprites in CharGen are limited in TASKS by COMPILING.
Ok, have I gotten anything wrong so far?
Posted by: Jaid Jan 21 2008, 03:43 AM
why would you pay resources for something that is free when you're making something as badly starved for BP as a technomancer anyways?
(iow: who cares, it's a moot point, imo)
Posted by: Seven-7 Jan 21 2008, 04:39 AM
I did this on another forum, but it bears repeating:
Ok, here's a partial Sheet, because well...Go where you want with it!
Resources left: 82BP, 250,000 Nuyen, 25Bp space for Pos Qualities, 24 Knowskill points.
Dwarf
B-A-R-S-C-I-L-W-E-R
3-2-2-3-5-4-4-3-1-6
Registering: 5 (Machine Sprites +2)
Compiling: 4
Codeslinger(Registering) -10
Sensitive System -15
Combat Paralysis -20
5*Machine Sprites R6 (Tasks: 4)
...And that's it.
Why didn't I buy Complex Forms? Well because there's no point. A.) I dont have to really hack, I can buy a Agent and Programs for him and simply let him do it for me while I fly along and provide Sprite Support. The Agent can also hack other drones for me.
Why didn't I buy anything? Anyone can pick up this build and spend 250,000 however they wish: Combat Drones, Vehicles, Smartgun platforms, Air Vehicles...Doesn't matter. Whatever they do however, Machine Sprites can provide 12 dice to any of the tests, be it firing or jazz.
Why is Registering so high and Compiling not? Honestly because Compiling has nothing to do with Registering. It's two different Tasks. It's as if they took mages, but Spellcasting for unbound spirits and summoning for bound spirits. Funny shit really. Oh, and there's no limit on the tasks on each sprite.
How good are you at Registering? 15 Dice. 5(Reg)+6(Res)+2(Spec)+2(Codeslinger). If you go for say...R8 Sprite later on it's an opposed test between 15 and 8, the 8 has a chance at 2.5 or so successes, you can buy 3 or risk 4-5 or so I think. This makes Machine Sprites who in the end throw 16 Dice on attack tests, base.
Can you resist the drain? Yeah, usually. 9 dice. 3(Will)+6(Res), so might take...Assuming 2-3 successes from the Sprites test...4-6 Boxes of damage? Shit, you'll survive regardless, but usually take 3 boxes. Now, you can also spend the 82 points to raise willpower some, or something.
Possible Scenarios:
- Raise Cha to 6, however you want, have 6 Machine Sprites R6 starting off. Pump em up with Re-Registering. Take 3, put em in heavy combat drones (Cheap!) with LMG's and it gets worse from there. Beyond the 16 dice a R8 would through, your other 3 sprites would use their power of Diagnostics (Rolling 16 dice again) to add +Dice equal to hits on the test (Can buy 4). Throwing you from 16 dice to 20-24.
- Buy one drone to start off, use it to scout and randomly fuck peoples drones up. Use the rest of the money for BP exchange (50) and the 82bp left to make a combat person.
Posted by: Cardul Jan 21 2008, 09:07 AM
Yeah, Seven-7..I kind of noticed that myself. I am not really sure. I just figure it was an error, and it was supposed to be 1 BP per rating, rating not to exceed Compiling.
What I am curious n is the whole thing about there not being an ability for Sprites to perceive the Matrix..I would think that, since there was no ability for them to perceive the 'Trix, and that they exist in the 'trix, that they could perceive it without there having to be an Errata allowing them to perceive the matrix.
Posted by: Seven-7 Jan 21 2008, 09:23 AM
Here's a quick fix: Drop Compiling from 4 to 0, gain 16Bp, drop the sprites, gain 20 more.
Throw 118 bp around as you wish.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 21 2008, 09:28 AM
| QUOTE (Cardul) |
| What I am curious n is the whole thing about there not being an ability for Sprites to perceive the Matrix..I would think that, since there was no ability for them to perceive the 'Trix, and that they exist in the 'trix, that they could perceive it without there having to be an Errata allowing them to perceive the matrix. |
Very few of the Contacts in the NPC section have the Perception skill. They all live (at least part of the time) in the Physical world, yet they have no means to perceive it. Perception is not an automatic skill possessed by everyone. Perceiving the obvious does not require a test, but for less in-your-face stuff, you need to make the test.
Posted by: Cardul Jan 21 2008, 10:07 AM
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Very few of the Contacts in the NPC section have the Perception skill. They all live (at least part of the time) in the Physical world, yet they have no means to perceive it. Perception is not an automatic skill possessed by everyone. Perceiving the obvious does not require a test, but for less in-your-face stuff, you need to make the test. |
Funny, Perception is not listed as a "No Default" skill, so...they can perceive, they are just like most people RL: go through their days and will watch the person wrapping their sandwich up and ask if they had enough stuff to make a sandwich, or will go through the red light because they did not notice it was red while they saw the green arrow on the turn lane light.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 21 2008, 10:26 AM
Similarly, so can Sprites default. That was basically my point. What's yours?
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 21 2008, 10:59 AM
Ah. See my point is that a Matrix Perception test is Anlysis (attribute) + Computer (skill). And if you don't have either because you are a Fault sprite, you're defaulting on both, which gives you a -2 dicepool on top of nothing. No no, they can't perceive the Matrix, they are quite useless as written.
-Frank
Posted by: Cardul Jan 21 2008, 11:15 AM
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Ah. See my point is that a Matrix Perception test is Anlysis (attribute) + Computer (skill). And if you don't have either because you are a Fault sprite, you're defaulting on both, which gives you a -2 dicepool on top of nothing. No no, they can't perceive the Matrix, they are quite useless as written. -Frank |
I think it is more that they cannot do things that would require a perception roll. I do not think they are precisely totally useless. Does the Hacker need to make a perception roll to see the IC infront of him? No. Perception is just for Surprise and noticing things out of whack. At least, that is how I had kind of thought it was, anyway.
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 21 2008, 11:20 AM
| QUOTE |
| Does the Hacker need to make a perception roll to see the IC infront of him? |
Yes.
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 229) |
| Not all icons are what they appear to be-to tell what something really is, you need to analyze it with a Matrix Perception Test |
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 217) |
| As a rule, anything running a Stealth program is considered to be hiding. |
Yeah, no Matrix Perception dicepool means that you are completely boned.
-Frank
Posted by: Cardul Jan 21 2008, 12:39 PM
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) | ||||||
Yes.
Yeah, no Matrix Perception dicepool means that you are completely boned. -Frank |
*hmmms* OK so you are saying this happens:
IC appears infront of hacker. He manages to score no Hits on his matrix perception test. It attacks his Persona, but, since he failed to pass his Matrix Perception test, he cannot say "Oh..this is IC."
In fact, you are saying that if it appears right in front of him, is not running under stealth, he cannot see it? And that the same applies to a Sprite that does not have one of the two abilities that give them the ability to make a matrix perception test?
I am typing this from wrk. I have this big, huge marble counter right in front of me. Are you saying that for me to be able to see that counter by the RAW, I need to make a regular Perception Test?
If my Sprite or I go into a node, are you saying that both would need to make a Matric Perception Test to see the architecture as programmed int the node? That otherwise, we just see a big floating expanse of nothing if we fail to make this test?
I'm srry, but if something is hitting me, and and ding damage to me(whether it is known that it is to my meat or my persona is beside the point) I think I am going to know that it is IC.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 21 2008, 12:44 PM
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Ah. See my point is that a Matrix Perception test is Anlysis (attribute) + Computer (skill). And if you don't have either because you are a Fault sprite, you're defaulting on both, which gives you a -2 dicepool on top of nothing. |
Why wouldn't you just default to Rating/Force/Whatever -1?
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 21 2008, 02:40 PM
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
Why wouldn't you just default to Rating/Force/Whatever -1? |
Because the attribute defined for Matrix Perception is the Analyze program. Without it you have no attribute. Now, the FAQ says that if you don't have the appropriate program you are allowed to Default on it. But the attribute defined for it is Logic, which the Fault Sprite also does not have!
So you check:
- Analyze Program (fail: -1 to test)
- Computer Skill (fail: -1 to test)
- (arguably) Logic Attribute (fail: -1 to test)
| QUOTE |
| In fact, you are saying that if it appears right in front of him, is not running under stealth, he cannot see it? And that the same applies to a Sprite that does not have one of the two abilities that give them the ability to make a matrix perception test? |
No. I'm saying that the Matrix is not like normal space. There is no true "in front of" or "right next to" - that's all metaphor. There are hundreds of thousands of icons in any and every node. And if you cannot make a Matrix Perception test you cannot determine which is which.
The Stealth Program is the defense pool in combat. Any matrix combat icon including a fault sprite is running one 24/7. Then, by the rules in order to target it, you have to win against it in an opposed Perception vs (Firewall + Stealth) test.
So yeah, any icon with a defense pool of any kind automatically defeats a Fault Sprite. Eventually it will be able to find the Fault Sprite and then it will start attacking. The Fault Sprite can never find the source of its discontent and will eventually be destroyed.
-Frank
Posted by: Ryu Jan 21 2008, 04:08 PM
If I was playing a TM I´d argue that a matrix attribute would have to be used for defaulting in this case. The sprites rating would be most appropiate, IMO.
Not that it adds any real chance of detecting a dedicated hacker.
Posted by: Cheops Jan 22 2008, 02:47 AM
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| No. I'm saying that the Matrix is not like normal space. There is no true "in front of" or "right next to" - that's all metaphor. There are hundreds of thousands of icons in any and every node. And if you cannot make a Matrix Perception test you cannot determine which is which. The Stealth Program is the defense pool in combat. Any matrix combat icon including a fault sprite is running one 24/7. Then, by the rules in order to target it, you have to win against it in an opposed Perception vs (Firewall + Stealth) test. |
Minor nitpick: unless you are a program or node (and a fault sprite is neither) then you roll Hacking + Stealth to hide.
| QUOTE |
| BBB 217 If you wish to specifically examine an arrow, dot, or other Matrix object—users, programs, IC, nodes, files, etc.—take a Simple Action to Observe in Detail (p. 136). Make a Matrix Perception test using your Computer + Analyze program (rather than Perception + Intuition). The gamemaster sets the threshold according to the difficulty of the situation (see Perception Test Thresholds, p. 117). |
Umm...I suppose this can come down to a matter of interpretation but to me, this looks like Matrix Perception works exactly the same as Physical Perception. It is the same action with the same thresholds and the same modifiers. But hold on, one might argue, this is not the VR matrix perception area that I just quoted:
| QUOTE |
| BBB 229 The simsense signal from the sim module translates the complex code structures of the actual Matrix into graphical icons and other sensory data (including emotions). Every object you see in full VR is an icon. These icons represent programs, devices, systems, and other users. Everything experienced in full VR is a symbolic representation. Not all icons are what they appear to be—to tell what something really is, you need to analyze it with a Matrix Perception Test (see p. 217). |
Well, the way I read this is that VR Matrix Perception is identical to AR Perception. You can see all the icons in VR without making a test but you don't know what they really are. So if you see a chair in VR it looks and acts like a chair--no test required. But until you make a VR Perception test or sit in it you won't know that it is a Black IC that kills anyone that sits in it.
So the fault sprite can see the chair but would not be able to determine that it is a threat until it is actually a threat (no chance to avoid surprise). Likewise for a Hacker without Computer and Analyze.
Finally just to be thorough:
| QUOTE |
| BBB 117 Gamemasters should limit their uses of Perception Tests, only calling for them when something is not immediately noticeable or when a situation is so hectic that certain things might be overlooked. |
So a GM shouldn't make you roll a Perception test to notice that someone is attacking you but he should make you roll one to see if you notice the distinctive tattoo on his arm as he kills you. Ditto for AR/VR perception since they work exactly the same as normal Perception.
Posted by: Seven-7 Jan 22 2008, 02:57 AM
Yes, but since IC Stealth, what you are saying amounts to:
Guys, you don't always have to make your runners roll perception against hidden people, just assume they know where the hidden people are most of the time!
Which is wrong and very stupid.
| QUOTE |
| only calling for them when something is not immediately noticeable |
Posted by: Cheops Jan 22 2008, 03:16 AM
| QUOTE (Seven-7) | ||
| Yes, but since IC Stealth, what you are saying amounts to: Guys, you don't always have to make your runners roll perception against hidden people, just assume they know where the hidden people are most of the time! Which is wrong and very stupid.
|
I never said you don't roll it when hidden.
Frank was suggesting that EVERYTHING in the Matrix is hidden. Which is partially true in VR. The true nature of everything is hidden. The only things that are actively hiding are those running Stealth.
Frank was also saying that AR/VR perception is NOT like physical perception but they ARE. Cardul was right with his example of his big marble desk. You don't need to make a Perception test to notice it. Now if it was hidden away in a corner and draped in Ruthenium Polymer then he would have to make a test to see it.
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE In fact, you are saying that if it appears right in front of him, is not running under stealth, he cannot see it? And that the same applies to a Sprite that does not have one of the two abilities that give them the ability to make a matrix perception test? No. I'm saying that the Matrix is not like normal space. There is no true "in front of" or "right next to" - that's all metaphor. There are hundreds of thousands of icons in any and every node. And if you cannot make a Matrix Perception test you cannot determine which is which. |
Okay, on second reading I'll grant that he didn't actually say that you can't see the Icon. But I'm pretty sure you'd be able to tell the difference between the IC w/o Stealth attacking you and the Spreadsheet File that is sitting in the filing cabinet. I will also argue that there is in fact a true "in front of" or "right next to." That is all defined by the Matrix Topology of the node you are accessing.
Also note that you don't need to have an Access ID of your target in order to attack it. You just have to have Matrix LOS. So even if you don't know that that is an IC attacking you, it is hostile, and you can see it so you can attack back.
Yes, Fault Sprites are still boned by Stealth but they are not useless because they can still see everything else. Although you are much better off getting them to attack passive icons than engage in cybercombat.
Posted by: Nightwalker450 Jan 22 2008, 03:51 AM
I just noticed this forum and I was working on a "Pokemancer" myself. Here's what I got so far.
Basically give the technomancer analyze, or compile a courier sprite to act as sentry. He can spot things, then point the other sprites in the right direction. "Attack sector 1000101101, its not a chair!". Your own not having stealth isn't an issue (only ones without are Data and Machine anyways), you just temp dismiss them until they are needed.
| QUOTE ("BBB pg 234") |
| In game terms, sprites are very similar to agents (p. 227). Each sprite has a rating that is equivalent to the Pilot rating on an agent. |
Is this supposed to mean that like agents they all are supposed to come with Computer, Cybercombat, Data Search, and Hacking, and has a Logic/Intuition/Willpower = Pilot? Thats the definition of what a Pilot gives you, or are they just equivilant in that both use numbers (instead of colors, or fruit) to define them? Also would they be like agents, in able to carry a payload, such as My analyze complex form, or maybe just an analyze program?
Posted by: Jaid Jan 22 2008, 04:02 AM
not much is clear in the matrix rules, but it is clear that resonance-based matrix entities cannot load or run non-resonance matrix stuff, and vice versa.
also, you can't just hand off your analyze complex form... it's a part of you, not just a matrix object you can pass around. if you could do that, it would be possible to buy complex forms from other technomancers, for example (or borrow them from your sprites), and that would just be weird.
Posted by: Cheops Jan 22 2008, 04:13 AM
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| not much is clear in the matrix rules, but it is clear that resonance-based matrix entities cannot load or run non-resonance matrix stuff, and vice versa. also, you can't just hand off your analyze complex form... it's a part of you, not just a matrix object you can pass around. if you could do that, it would be possible to buy complex forms from other technomancers, for example (or borrow them from your sprites), and that would just be weird. |
and horribly broken
Posted by: Fortune Jan 22 2008, 04:15 AM
| QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ Jan 22 2008, 01:51 PM) | ||
Is this supposed to mean that like agents they all are supposed to come with Computer, Cybercombat, Data Search, and Hacking, and has a Logic/Intuition/Willpower = Pilot? Thats the definition of what a Pilot gives you, or are they just equivilant in that both use numbers (instead of colors, or fruit) to define them? |
My take is that if an Agent can do something, either naturally (without programs or autosofts) or by defaulting, then a Sprite can probably do the same.
Posted by: djinni Jan 22 2008, 04:28 AM
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
| and horribly broken |
no more than a hacker getting all his rating 6 programs for free
Posted by: Nightwalker450 Jan 22 2008, 04:29 AM
Question on Sprites/Technomancer Riggers
Since it is skill + Device Attribute, do these affect Technomancers/Sprites as well? So a Machine Sprite would roll Vehicle + (Device's) Response, instead of Rating x 2.
Posted by: Jaid Jan 22 2008, 05:04 PM
machine sprites have the command CF. they can operate the device using the "control device" matrix action, which means they would roll command CF + autosoft rating, both of which will be at a rating equal to their own rating... and thus, they would be rolling double their rating anyways 
i suppose you could allow them to roll the vehicle's response instead, but i don't really see that as making sense... those are the rules for riggers, and strictly speaking sprites and pilots don't rig anything, as there is certainly no simsense involved.
Posted by: Ryu Jan 22 2008, 05:29 PM
As Frank is not arround for some time:
| QUOTE (Frank) |
| No. I'm saying that the Matrix is not like normal space. There is no true "in front of" or "right next to" - that's all metaphor. There are hundreds of thousands of icons in any and every node. And if you cannot make a Matrix Perception test you cannot determine which is which. |
Anything running an active stealth program is considered hidden (see matrix perception).
If you don´t have a matrix perception pool, you can´t spot something that is hidden.
There is no rule saying that attacking makes you visible. You are only automatically aware that there is incoming damage.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 22 2008, 05:53 PM
But not every single thing in the Matrix runs an active Stealth Program.
Posted by: Raij Jan 22 2008, 06:05 PM
| QUOTE |
| How good are you at Registering? 15 Dice. 5(Reg)+6(Res)+2(Spec)+2(Codeslinger). If you go for say...R8 Sprite later on it's an opposed test between 15 and 8... |
| QUOTE |
| Registering requires a number of hours equal to the rating of the sprite. At the end of the procedure, the technomancer makes an Opposed Test pitting his Resonance + Registering against the sprite’s rating x 2. The technomancer needs 1 net hit to register the sprite, while additional hits add to the number of tasks the sprite owes. |
Posted by: Ryu Jan 22 2008, 06:52 PM
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| But not every single thing in the Matrix runs an active Stealth Program. |
That is true, and the reason why I elaborated on Franks statement.
Posted by: Cheops Jan 22 2008, 08:21 PM
Attacks making you visible in the Matrix has gotten me thinking about a couple of interesting questions.
Everything you do in the Matrix is logged and tagged with your Matrix Access ID right? So when the IC attacks you shouldn't there be a log:
#123456[IC] attacks #987654[Persona]
somewhere? So theoretically, if this is the way that it works, it is like someone springing out of a physical ambush and shooting you. You can now basically "see" the icon. For the IC to be able to benefit from its Stealth program again it would have to spoof its datatrail (thereby changing its AID and making the above log useless). Most IC/Agents/Sprites probably wouldn't bother spoofing since this slows you down in cybercombat horribly but sneaky opponents could.
The alternative is that Stealth always works in which case you have the Matrix equivalent of a sniper fight.
Of course my second thought would be: Does having the AID allow you to see the target? No where in the rules does it say so but it makes sense that it would work.
Personally I prefer the idea that AID = LOS and that Stealth doesn't work if you have the AID. That way it makes cybercombat a little more interesting and makes IC/Agents/Sprites a little more useful.
Posted by: Seven-7 Jan 22 2008, 08:46 PM
| QUOTE (Raij) | ||||
|
Wow, I totally missed that. What a fucking gimp. So this means, that, even one of the most advanced Technomancers that hasn't Subm. with some of the best registering skills...Will most of the time take 6 stun to the face?
Great way to make Technomancers blow at the only thing they seem to do right.
Posted by: Dashifen Jan 22 2008, 10:02 PM
@Seven-7
Why do you need a rating 8 sprite? with 15 dice, just compile/register sprites in the 5-7 range and you'll be fine. I'm not even sure the TM in my campaign has tried to register anything much higher than a 5 and he's kicking ass all over the damn place.
@Cheops
I would like to comment on two of your points. You indicate that if an IC attacks something, a log of that attack would be placed somewhere. Why do you say that? To me an attack by one icon on another is not really a system's concern and, thus, it may not be logged by a system.
Granted, I tend to ignore the concept of logs and simply say that if you're running a Stealth program, then you're not being logged, but that's my games.
Secondly, assuming for the moment that an attack is logged, then why would being attacked automatically get you information from that log? Unless the icon attacked were accessing the log and using analyze to notice changes therein would I give them any information about the contents of a log file.
---
Frank and I have butted heads before on the matrix and I hate to do so why he's unable to access the boards, but I guess I should also say that, for what it's worth, I disagree with his interpretation above.
If you're rolling Computer + Analyze, which for anything but a persona (living or otherwise) is going to fall back on Pilot/System + Analyze, I do allow a default of Computer-1 or Pilot/System-1 if you don't have the Analyze program. In my opinion, thus something can always attempt to notice icons around itself.
I also think that icons in the matrix interact with the metaphor, it's not simply for the personae which log on and interact therein, but that's probably a debate for another time.
Posted by: Ryu Jan 22 2008, 10:05 PM
@Cheops: It could be seen that way, but is not supported by the rules so far. It is within the operational wiggle room Unwired has to explain such things. It is also amongst the things that need to be explained.
Posted by: Cthulhudreams Jan 22 2008, 10:34 PM
@Dashifen Isn't that a house rule - I mean an entirely reasonable house rule given the circumstances, but its still a house rule? Which then invalidates your opinion?
Another common house rule that would give fault sprites the power to perceive is skill + attribute with hits limited by program, because you'd have to define attribute as equal to rating, pilot or system. But there you go.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 23 2008, 12:15 AM
| QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Jan 23 2008, 08:34 AM) |
| @Dashifen Isn't that a house rule |
I don't believe so. The way I see it, the rules say Sprites are treated like Agents and Pilots. The rules (at least the FAQ) allows for defaulting to the skill for Hacking, which in the case of the afformentioned entities default to rating for those tests for which they dont possess a program.
Posted by: Ryu Jan 23 2008, 01:28 AM
You can justify defaulting to one of those, but in this case you actually have neither.
The analogy fails because Pilot is equivalent to "all matrix skills", while only a few Sprites have Computer skill. An easily fixed oversight, allthough one might prefer to hand out the more limited Analyse CF instead.
Posted by: Jaid Jan 23 2008, 01:29 AM
| QUOTE (Ryu) |
| You can justify defaulting to one of those, but in this case you actually have neither. The analogy fails because Pilot is equivalent to "all matrix skills", while only a few Sprites have Computer skill. An easily fixed oversight, allthough one might prefer to hand out the more limited Analyse CF instead. |
the problem there is that the dice pool is still computer + analyse, which means the sprite is still exceptionally bad at spotting things unless it has computer skill
Posted by: Dashifen Jan 23 2008, 02:07 PM
And I'm fine with that. Sprites are semi-sentient matrix constructs that have been in existence (as far as we know) for probably no more than approximately 5 years. Should they have figured out all the ins-and-outs of metahuman techonology? Perhaps not.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 23 2008, 02:24 PM
Why not? Their entire existence is spent inside that technology. The are supposed to be to the Matrix what a Spirit is to the Astral.
Posted by: Dashifen Jan 23 2008, 06:21 PM
And we know that Spirits can't understand some aspects of Metahuman life. Ergo, it seems to me like Sprites shouldn't be all-knowing with respect to how Metahuman technology works. Some are, but some aren't.
The real hole in the logic comes from the fact the Sprites couldn't even see other Sprites using a Stealth Complex Form .....
Posted by: Fortune Jan 24 2008, 10:19 AM
There's a wide space (currently empty of Sprites) between "all knowing" and "clueless".
Posted by: Dashifen Jan 24 2008, 02:19 PM
Perhaps, but I've had two different TM's in my games and neither of them ran into problems with respect to this. Clearly not a statistical sample, but I'm not sure there's really a problem here.
Posted by: Cheops Jan 25 2008, 02:59 AM
| QUOTE (Ryu) |
| @Cheops: It could be seen that way, but is not supported by the rules so far. It is within the operational wiggle room Unwired has to explain such things. It is also amongst the things that need to be explained. |
also @ Dashifen:
sorry, I wasn't trying to frame that post as RAW. I was kind of thinking out loud and bouncing ideas off of Dumpshock (which apparently is made of Tefflon).
That post was in no way RAW. It is something I am mulling over.
Posted by: Dashifen Jan 25 2008, 03:36 PM
I didn't think mine was either
Posted by: Ryu Jan 25 2008, 04:18 PM
| QUOTE (Cheops) | ||
also @ Dashifen: sorry, I wasn't trying to frame that post as RAW. I was kind of thinking out loud and bouncing ideas off of Dumpshock (which apparently is made of Tefflon). That post was in no way RAW. It is something I am mulling over. |
No worries, I got that. It really is a problem hopefully addressed in Unwired, and your solution would IMO work. Personally I think that stealth should work as disguise, as it should be impossible to hide the additional connection your persona requires.
From that would follow connection = LOS, Stealth = apparently legitimate user.
Posted by: Cheops Jan 26 2008, 03:57 PM
But again with it being like Disguise if you take the Physical analogy for it then once Disguise is broken it stays broken until the attacker takes some actual actions to regain the disguise.
I'm really not fond of the idea of having to always Matrix Perceive each turn to make an attack. Especially since if you don't take a Simple Action to Observe in Detail you are technically -2 dice to your Matrix Perception.
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