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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ 4chan DOSes Scientology
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jan 25 2008, 04:33 AM
As I type this, 4chan is apparently doing an enormous DOS attack on the church of scientology. Scientology is apparently offering $5000 a head for Anonymous according to internet chatter, which if true is a sign of desperation. Apparently this has even made the television news: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVaQG67eqwA
| QUOTE |
7 out of the 8 targets are going down. The only one left is scientology.org which keeps coming back up. All of their lawyer's offices and such are being spammed with faxes of black sheets of paper or various hilarious images that are on repeat, phone calls, etc. etc. the IRC channel #xenu is being attacked by botnets that are purportedly being sent in by the scientology folks, most likely prolexic. The channel has been locked down and registration is closed. The only people allowed now are pre-registered people. Anybody new cannot join or even get into the IRC channel anymore. The battle has raged for over 2 hours from all over the world. The entire internet is fighting against scientology right now. Estimated numbers of over 22,000 people are fighting and running the longcat program. Seriously folks, the internet is serious business. |
Check the graph out: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/a8/Alexaraep.jpg
So, this got me to thinking. Suppose that a bunch of Matrix-using snots in SR3 did exactly the same thing to a major SR3 megacorp such as Ares? How would the megacorp react? They wouldn't be able to track down and kill all the people involved with the DOS, and while they do have ICE and all that good stuff on their system there's got to be a limit to how much bandwidth their system can take and still keep functioning; they're not having to kill solitary deckers as they would during the course of a "normal" SR campaign.
Posted by: Ravor Jan 25 2008, 04:50 AM
Although a corp might not be able to track down and kill everyone involved in the attack, I'd imagine that anyone that they could track down would disappear and the corp woudl actively be going after the ringleaders.
Posted by: Gelare Jan 25 2008, 06:49 AM
Huh, interesting story. I'll have to keep an eye on that. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that:
1) Matrix technology is so powerful that you really can't do a DOS attack on anyone using modern systems, or
2) Matrix software has developed superior ways for stopping attacks like that, or
3) Megacorps have some super secret tech that'll fix stuff within a couple minutes. Say, the couple of minutes needed for a shadowrunning team to do something important...hmm...
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 25 2008, 10:43 AM
bwahahaahahahah!!!!
this is golden! ^^
Anonymous does not forgive! Nevar Forget!
seriously, i'm rolling on the ground laughing my fat ass off over here *gg*
here's the official campaign video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ
Problem in SR World is, that something like ares is basically as big as a country and has enough ressources(ice, bots of their own and corp hackers) to actually go one on one with such a wave of incoming attacks . . and with the advanced computing/data transfer technology in SR3 such a DOS or DDOS would be pretty much impossible . .
Posted by: Link Jan 25 2008, 12:47 PM
In VR1 (Matrix 1.0) there were system load rules where the node could slow to a standstill when overloaded which sounds similar to DOS. The adventure Missing Blood had the UB matrix host as Red 6 with Black IC so such an attack could be perilous.
SR's corporate court seems to have jurisdiction over the grid to some extent which might make evading prosecution more difficult in the future.
Quantum of Solace is the new Bond movie BTW ;)
Posted by: nezumi Jan 25 2008, 02:16 PM
Anybody else amused that a religion started by a sci-fi author is getting a kick in the nuts by a group of anonymous people using the internets?
Posted by: bibliophile20 Jan 25 2008, 02:47 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| Anybody else amused that a religion started by a sci-fi author is getting a kick in the nuts by a group of anonymous people using the internets? |
I heard about this yesterday at juggling practice (completely forgot about it after my players' antics during our game right afterwards) but we all found it incredibly amusing, and that aspect was one of the things we found funny.
Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja Jan 25 2008, 02:58 PM
I agree with Ravor. It is one thing if you know getting caught means a nasty letter from an attorney. It is another if getting caught might mean you disappear.
Also what if one of the group gets snagged by psychotropic black ICE and promptly turns on her fellows and gives them all up to the corp she now loves?
Posted by: Critias Jan 25 2008, 03:24 PM
Would everyone be laughing so hard if it was a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Baptist, Buddhist, Taoist, or (insert Atheist/Agnostic web site of choice here, including DSF or whatever other forums you like) site being destroyed this way?
Or is it only funny because these guys are popularly known to be "crazy" and "weird" and "wrong," because they believe in different made-up nonsense than the rest of us?
I mean, if Tom Cruise was preaching Buddhism or Christianity and going on in a pretty weird rambling way, but stuck to the same topics -- the importance of helping people, not doing drugs, making the world a better place -- would folks still be allowed (ie, would it be so popular and cool) to point and laugh as hard as they are, slap on the back the internet tough-guys tearing the site down, etc, etc? I doubt it.
Posted by: bibliophile20 Jan 25 2008, 03:31 PM
| QUOTE (Critias @ Jan 25 2008, 10:24 AM) |
| Would everyone be laughing so hard if it was a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Baptist, Buddhist, Taoist, or Atheist web site being destroyed this way? |
Nope, because they're legitimate religions... not something cooked up by a sci-fi writer who found his writing career insufficiently rewarding in an economic sense.
There's also many of the fun little tricks that Scientology gets up to to make sure that they get their way to consider; completely ignoring the dogma that they feed their "believers", the sort of stunts they pull--suing anyone that says anything that's not complimentary of the Church, for example, sort of an http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm writ large--puts them right near Creationists in my own personal circle of hate.
EDIT:
| QUOTE |
| Or is it only funny because these guys are popularly known to be "crazy" and "weird" and "wrong," because they believe in different made-up nonsense than the rest of us? |
Have you seen some of the shit they believe in? It's one thing for a a Jew or a Christian to believe that the earth was created in seven days; one can always interpret that as being a metaphor for vast ages of time. But Scientology believes that the Universe is "tens of trillions of years old"! Or, in other words, several orders of magnitude older than even the most generous scientifically-based estimate!
Posted by: nezumi Jan 25 2008, 03:32 PM
It's funny because if you do any research, you'd know that Scientology engages in a lot of deceitful, destructive practices. I've never heard anyone comes out of the Catholic Church and say "I was a Catholic for 12 years. They required I pay $5,000 for confession, and over the course of that 12 years I paid over $400,000. During that time, I lived in housing they made for me where I slept for four hours a night and they made me sever contacts with my family or anyone who disagreed with their theology."
However, I would also think it quite funny if a bunch of angels got together and picketed outside of the Vatican to keep people from going in or out, or if a bunch of animals got together and started throwing stuff at Buddhist temples. Not sure what would make for a funny atheist denial of service.
Posted by: Critias Jan 25 2008, 03:35 PM
So they're a cult/religion, with people that agree and disagree with them and their teachings, just like every other cult/religion out there, is what you guys are saying.
I know they're not perfect. I don't buy what they're selling, any more than the rest of you do (just so we're clear on that). I'm sure they're a horrible scam. I know the people at the top are laughing their asses off and making a fortune off the schmucks at the bottom. But I know the same thing happens in plenty of other faiths around the world, and that sometimes the donating schmucks at the bottom are still made happier by doing what they do.
But at least Scientology hasn't started any crusades, bombed any buildings, flown airplanes anywhere airplanes aren't supposed to go, or fucked up science classes in public school any time lately -- so why is to so "okay" to mock and attack them, and not any other faith/cult?
Posted by: bibliophile20 Jan 25 2008, 03:36 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| funny atheist denial of service. |
Isn't that the essence of atheism in and of itself?
Posted by: bibliophile20 Jan 25 2008, 03:38 PM
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| So they're a cult/religion, with people that agree and disagree with them and their teachings, just like every other cult/religion out there, is what you guys are saying. I know they're not perfect. I don't buy what they're selling, any more than the rest of you do (just so we're clear on that). I'm sure they're a horrible scam. I know the people at the top are laughing their asses off and making a fortune off the schmucks at the bottom. But I know the same thing happens in plenty of other faiths around the world, and that sometimes the donating schmucks at the bottom are still made happier by doing what they do. But at least Scientology hasn't started any crusades, bombed any buildings, flown airplanes anywhere airplanes aren't supposed to go, or fucked up science classes in public school any time lately -- so why is to so "okay" to mock and attack them, and not any other faith/cult? |
The key word that you're missing there is "Yet."
And they have started crusades; economic and social crusades as opposed to military, but they've destroyed lives just the same.
Posted by: Critias Jan 25 2008, 03:51 PM
So what's their kill score up to compared to, say, Catholics? Or Muslims? Are those real-world faiths kosher for everyone to start bashing in the middle of a Shadowrun forum, too?
I mean, you want to discuss the "what if...?" factor of a DOS attack (or whatever it would translate to in the not-really-computer-based future of Shadowrun), knock your socks off. But stay on topic. Don't just post "LOL Syantology is full of stupids!!!! ROFLMAO THAY DESERVE IT!!!" or something. Right, right. Some e-thugs have decided to tear down a religion. Okay, hah-hah, we get it, let's talk about Shadowrun.
Posted by: nezumi Jan 25 2008, 04:00 PM
Scientology DOES currently, right now, ruin lives, and there are plenty of people who will stake their reputation on precisely that.
If the Catholic Church were, or recently had ruined lives, I'd be right there with everyone else making a fuss about it. Right now you might think as an organization they're ineffective, but they do far more good charity work than harm, and they don't portray any of the other signs generally accepted as indicators of 'dangerous cult'.
Islam isn't a single church, and so lumping in extremists with the rest of the religion is simply false, however I think if there were a central extremist church of Islam to pin our anger on, I doubt anyone here would say 'no, they don't deserve having their website shut down. I mean it was only a few thousand people they killed, it's not like they killed you personally!'
Posted by: Ryu Jan 25 2008, 04:09 PM
Scientology deserves to be forbidden because it is a fake religion, exploiting their members and destroying lives. We do not endorse destructive parts of other churches either, but those use to work in charity and actually care for the spiritual well-being of their members.
Posted by: nezumi Jan 25 2008, 04:13 PM
I don't think there's any way to determine if a religion is 'true' or not. However, it is clear it destroys lives and engages in a lot of shady dealings.
Posted by: Adarael Jan 25 2008, 04:39 PM
I don't wanna jump in on the Scientology-as-religion too much, but here's what it boils down to, Critias:
No, I wouldn't be laughing as hard if it was a DDOS on most any other religion. But no other religion even comes close to scientology's levels of frivolous litigation, information suppression via legal threats, and no other religion claims their gospel is a fucking trade secret you're not intitled to unless you pay 29.95.
So sure, other religions objectively might be crazy too. But at least they're crazy in a way that doesn't clog the courts or make idiotic claims about copying a religious text a case of industrial espionage. So they get a big fat F U from me.
With regards to DDOS in Shadowrun:
I'm firmly in the camp that believes DDOSes can and will happen, but one of the reasons 4Chan and the like are currently so successful is because the majority of their zombie boxes are compromised by insufficient security. As of SR times, that's not going to be the case - or at least it won't be AS MUCH of the case.
And, as DLN says, if DDOSing a company for the lulz means you disappear for good, or you are brain-burned where you sit... That's a pretty big deterrent, IMO. Anonymous works because they are functionally anonymous. Tar Baby & Trace IC combos blow that out of the water.
Posted by: mfb Jan 25 2008, 04:45 PM
i'm not sure anything similar is possible in SR4, but in SR3, Trace IC can be completely avoided* by just about anybody. all you have to do is hop around to different RTGs and do a Redirect Datatrail operation on each. every time you do so, any attempt to use Trace or Track on you gets a cumulative +2 penalty, up to +8 TN. a really high-rated Track prog will still work, but most Trace IC will be stopped cold during the location cycle. the beauty of it is, there are plenty of RTGs out there with ridiculously low ratings, so you really only need like 2 skill and a rating 4 prog to pull it off. granted, that's more than your average 4chan zombie is going to have, but still.
*not completely
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 25 2008, 05:11 PM
...this guy was a real nutcase:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/la90/la90-1a1.html
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 25 2008, 05:34 PM
| QUOTE (Gelare) |
| Huh, interesting story. I'll have to keep an eye on that. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that: 1) Matrix technology is so powerful that you really can't do a DOS attack on anyone using modern systems |
This would only make sense if it is dramatically faster to interpret and respond to requests than it is to generate them. I can't imagine at the moment what could make that true.
~J
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jan 25 2008, 06:20 PM
| QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja) |
| I agree with Ravor. It is one thing if you know getting caught means a nasty letter from an attorney. It is another if getting caught might mean you disappear. Also what if one of the group gets snagged by psychotropic black ICE and promptly turns on her fellows and gives them all up to the corp she now loves? |
Well, you never know. Apparently someone claims Scientology has SR style security forces.
http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49042&page=6
| QUOTE |
SCIENTOLOGY IS ARMED AND DANGEROUS 28. In 1991 I had to prepare the base so that it could be defended against the possibility of being taken over by the authorities in a time of crisis. There are approx. 750 people at the base. I was in charge of a project designing the base security system, the perimeter fence, the ultra razor barriers, the lighting of the perimeter fence, the electronic monitors, the concealed microphones, the ground sensors, the motion sensors and hidden cameras which were installed and all over the area -- even outside the base. 29. Church monies were used to purchase semi-automatic assault rifles (HK 91 assault rifles capable of firing 300-350 rounds of ammunition a minute, 45 caliber pistols, .380 automatic weapons and twelve gauge shotguns were stockpiled. These weapons were not registered. Church monies were also used to buy the ammunition. 30. Church monies were also used to purchase a large amount of pounds of gunpowder for the construction of various types of explosive devices to be used in the defense of the base. 31. The motorcycle guards were trained to carry loaded cocked 45 caliber pistols. The eagle scout, mounted high above the base, was trained to carry a high powered rifle with a telescopic scope. There is also a 1,000 millimeter telescope up with 'eagle'. 32. I developed three classifications of intruder and established the level of deadly force to use for each. In addition to firearms, the guards were taught how to effectively wield little batons. The basic things like striking to the center of the heart, the center of the solar plex and then to the side of the head, etc. 33. At church expense, I trained the security guards and other base personnel in the use of these weapons and explosives. I also trained them in the close quarter use of fatal force. We built a combat range for training purposes and I instructed Scientologists on various ways of shooting people. I also trained them in night vision and ambush techniques. We used a ravine that was a natural round shield so the noise would not cause any noisy inquiries. |
Posted by: nezumi Jan 25 2008, 06:38 PM
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) | ||
|
See why we have to worry? Not only are they cultists, they have superhuman speed. I don't know of anyone else who can fire 300-350 rounds a minute with a semi-automatic rifle.
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jan 25 2008, 06:43 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) | ||||
See why we have to worry? Not only are they cultists, they have superhuman speed. I don't know of anyone else who can fire 300-350 rounds a minute with a semi-automatic rifle. |
They have scientology physad powers which they spent on Improved Reflexes III.
Posted by: nezumi Jan 25 2008, 07:00 PM
Wow, that sure beats Hubology with its lousy +1 to luck.
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jan 25 2008, 07:23 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| Wow, that sure beats Hubology with its lousy +1 to luck. |
I think you could get up to +2 if you were lucky, which is actually quite good. (Read: you could get +2 to luck by Save Ninjaing) Unfortunately if you were unlucky you could lose luck. But once your luck got up there your critical hits could become a force to be reckoned with.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Jan 25 2008, 07:54 PM
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) | ||
I think you could get up to +2 if you were lucky, which is actually quite good. (Read: you could get +2 to luck by Save Ninjaing) Unfortunately if you were unlucky you could lose luck. But once your luck got up there your critical hits could become a force to be reckoned with. |
No luck involved really, it required a specific dialog choice and I think your luck had to be below a certain point. Could be wrong about the second part.
For real amusement, set Luck to 10 at chargen and take Jinxed.
Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Jan 25 2008, 08:52 PM
Heh...did that in both games - named the character "Chance."
In the first game I found the crashed ufo AND the crashed soda truck on the way to the first village.
Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja Jan 25 2008, 08:53 PM
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jan 25 2008, 01:20 PM) | ||
Well, you never know. Apparently someone claims Scientology has SR style security forces. |
I do not want to jump on the is/isn't does/doesn't argument. I am Shinto if anyone asks. But that having been said I was not laughing over it. The group seems to be out there. but there is a valid point to what some have said. When you look at that tape of tom Cruise talking about scientology, if you substituted "Judism" or "Christianity" in there instread of scientology, no one would mock him for his views.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 25 2008, 09:01 PM
| QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja) |
| When you look at that tape of tom Cruise talking about scientology, if you substituted "Judism" or "Christianity" in there instread of scientology, no one would mock him for his views. |
I'll bite.
"Being a
Yeah, I'd still mock that.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 25 2008, 09:39 PM
Unless the copycats are beginning, Anonymous has released another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcr1trjtLaU
edit: Oops, apparently that was the third. The second is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yozvaMGkDjo, I think.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 25 2008, 11:19 PM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Jan 26 2008, 08:01 AM) |
| "Being a Yeah, I'd still mock that. |
Well, a lot of people believe the right thing to do is help. As for being 'the only one', well, you are there at the accident scene, so you are one of the only people in a position to help. If you don't do so, it might be too late before someone else can.
Doesn't seem too sinister or ridiculous to me.
Note that I am not supporting Scientology, or any religion.
Posted by: mfb Jan 25 2008, 11:31 PM
in that particular quote, he seems to be saying that nobody except Scientologists stop and help at accidents.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 25 2008, 11:43 PM
I've seen the original quote.
I fail to see the logic of mocking a person just because they believe it is right for them to help another unfortunate individual.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 25 2008, 11:56 PM
They're not saying that, though—notice that you deliberately misinterpret what he says.
His words: "the only one"
Your words: "one of the only people"
One of these things is not like the other.
~J
Posted by: Fix-it Jan 26 2008, 12:05 AM
wow. 4chan vs Scientology.
no matter what happens, the rest of society wins.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 26 2008, 12:24 AM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jan 26 2008, 10:56 AM) |
| They're not saying that, though—notice that you deliberately misinterpret what he says. |
Fair enough, though I 'misrepresented' what he was saying to illustrate my point. You took my point and are trying to say I am changing the actual quote.
Answer me this: If you were driving past an accident, and there was no help for the victim available on the desolate road except what you could possible offer, would you be the 'only one that could help' right then and there?
I don't think it is a bad thing to be ready and willing to offer assistance to those in need. I don't care if they think it is some divine responsibility (as a lot of religions do), or if they just do it for kicks. Help is help, and if effective, really doesn't deserve ridicule.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 26 2008, 12:35 AM
I should say that I'm going only by the quote posted here, and that if context fills in any of those details, my point necessarily falls—I don't have time at the moment to find the original. However, within the context of that quote alone, I see no reason to conclude that your interpretation does not change his meaning.
Indeed, due to the paired "only one" and use of "really", my interpretation is that in fact he is not talking about rendering physical assistance at all.
~J
Posted by: Fortune Jan 26 2008, 12:46 AM
I don't really care enough to argue the point, other than to say that, in my opinion, people that are willing to help don't really deserve ridicule for that willingness. That was really all I was trying to say.
Posted by: Gelare Jan 26 2008, 12:48 AM
On the Scientology vs. Whoever discussion, I'm going to go ahead and throw in my agreement with Adarael. As for the original topic at hand,
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||
This would only make sense if it is dramatically faster to interpret and respond to requests than it is to generate them. I can't imagine at the moment what could make that true. ~J |
I didn't mean to say that's what is the case, merely that it might be. I mean, megacorps do have giant server farms, which could stand up to a significant amount of abuse. But I agree with you, that alone probably wouldn't be enough to stop DOS attacks.
| QUOTE (Me) |
| 2) Matrix software has developed superior ways for stopping attacks like that, or 3) Megacorps have some super secret tech that'll fix stuff within a couple minutes. Say, the couple of minutes needed for a shadowrunning team to do something important...hmm... |
I do envision coupling ridiculously powerful computing systems with highly advanced filtering software that can adapt to new conditions within however many seconds or minutes the plot requires. And I guess the Black IC helps too.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 26 2008, 12:57 AM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| Scientology DOES currently, right now, ruin lives, and there are plenty of people who will stake their reputation on precisely that. If the Catholic Church were, or recently had ruined lives, I'd be right there with everyone else making a fuss about it. |
Hah. I'd missed that. They have—it happens every day in Africa, every single day the anti-contraceptive message is transmitted from a priest or missionary to someone else. Examples can be found for other religions, as well, with at most few exceptions (and possibly none—at their core, all religions require some element of faith, that is, belief without evidence, which I at least consider poisonous). Critias's point stands—simply because Scientology is more modern (less time to turn into a sacred cow), and because we may not be able to point to apparent examples of good to start balancing out the bad they may do, does not make them any more apropos for this forum.
~J
Posted by: mfb Jan 26 2008, 12:58 AM
| QUOTE (Fortune @ Jan 25 2008, 07:46 PM) |
| I don't really care enough to argue the point, other than to say that, in my opinion, people that are willing to help don't really deserve ridicule for that willingness. That was really all I was trying to say. |
no one's mocking the willingness, they're mocking the assertion that nobody but Scientologists have that willingness, and also the idea that that willingness springs from the fact that one is a Scientologist.
i dislike Scientology for the simple reason that most of its face time comes from celebrities. i think it's dangerous for a society to look to its entertainment for ideas on how to live their lives. sure, Scientology also ruins lives, flaunts laws, and does all the other stuff that makes religion great, but what makes Scientology really scary is John Travolta.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 26 2008, 01:43 AM
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| no one's mocking the willingness, they're mocking the assertion that nobody but Scientologists have that willingness, and also the idea that that willingness springs from the fact that one is a Scientologist. |
Shrug. Most (if not all) religions make claims about exclusivity in some form or another.
What I really don't understand is just what these big name celebrities get out of Scientology. I mean, what possible benefits could Tom Cruise and John Travolta reap from the association that they could not garner through other, less controversial (for lack of a better word) avenues? What do people like James Packer (who has everything he wants) see in it, that they are willing to be seen as poster children for this cult?
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 26 2008, 12:56 PM
something that hasn't been mentioned here yet as far as i can see:
(D)DOS tactics are pretty much viable in SR4 at least as presented by Agent Smith Armies i think *g*
Posted by: Bull Jan 26 2008, 01:55 PM
Ok gang, let's watch it here. You all know Religion is one of our hot buttons, and I don't care how weird, kooky, or crazy you (Or I) think any particular religion is, do not mock, bash, flame, or whatever that faith. Period.
Bring this back on topic and drop the religion bashing.
Bull
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jan 26 2008, 02:58 PM
The vid of Cruise is pretty harmless. the part I found off was him saying the were the only source or knowledge. but if it was James Ganoldfini saying how good the catholic church was in that it teaches you to help others, no one would raise an eye brow at it. Sure Scientology has so serious problems but the Cruise video is pretty harmless.
To get back on topic, how would it be handled in the SR world? easy. we've seen it.
Any of you want to read through Universal Brotherhood? AZT figured out long before hand they were just not right and pretty much exterminated all traces within the corp. one of the few things that corp's bloody rep worked correctly on.
Faced with being hunted down by the corp security, how many people would risk an attack on them? Sure the odds are the corp won't get all of the trouble makers, but do you want to be the one they do get? Also there's no telling how long the corp is willing to wait for revenge. You're sitting there in a bar and suddenly a heavy hand hits your shoulders. 2 orks stand there wanting to talk to you about that little stunt you pulled 2 years ago. Heck seems like a good run-Mr Johnson wants you to find out who orchestrated the run against XYZ and bring them in, alive.
Maybe Johnson works for XYZ and wants the guy punished, or hired on 'you're pretty good' or works for the competition and wants him on the payroll, or maybe will hand him over to XYZ as a 'favor'
Posted by: Fortune Jan 26 2008, 03:10 PM
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| The vid of Cruise is pretty harmless. the part I found off was him saying the were the only source or knowledge. but if it was James Ganoldfini saying how good the catholic church was in that it teaches you to help others, no one would raise an eye brow at it. Sure Scientology has so serious problems but the Cruise video is pretty harmless. |
Damn it, are we actually agreeing? Is it a blue moon over the eastern states?
Posted by: CircuitBoyBlue Jan 27 2008, 07:05 AM
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| i think it's dangerous for a society to look to its entertainment for ideas on how to live their lives. |
Whatever. I learned all I need to know from watching Star Trek.
I think the UB is largely underrepresented in SR these days. I mean, I imagine the majority of people that joined didn't actually end up as insect hosts. It seems like it was really big at one point, and if there were that many people that believed in it as deeply as the books told us they did, you'd think there'd be a lot of UB members still kicking around. You don't just give up faith because some elves in Ireland told you they thought your spiritual mentor is evil. You just might start practicing your religious beliefs underground. In the Shadows.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jan 27 2008, 05:18 PM
Yeah, Lots of people found it really useful and were so upset when the UCAS government finally smashed them that they got stipends for a while (Per Burning Bright)but back in the day before it came out, AZT smashed all UB activity within it's structure.
We're use to seeing AZT as one of the worst of the AAA's, blood sacrifice, Darke's Horrors and all but it might be interesting if they become champions against other corps using bug spirits.
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