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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Adept Power Question
Posted by: JRandom Jan 27 2008, 01:20 AM
I have a rules questions for everyone,
My troll has 9 strength and 4 ranks in the Power Throw adept power.
Would this give him an effective strength of 17, or would it stop at the augmented cap of 15?
I guess I'm just asking if this +2 effective strength bonus solely for damage and range is affected by the augmented metatype maximum. Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 27 2008, 01:33 AM
...good question, At first I would think it is not affected by the attribute cap just as Critical Strike isn't, but then CS is described as a bonus to the DV whereas Power Throw is described specifically as a "Strength Bonus". The key could be in the word "effective" and how it is interpreted.
...it could also be a case of the "its Magic" thing (ugh!) so then there is no limit save for the Adept's MA.
Zioks! I suddenly get this vision of a Troll taking down a chopper with a billiard ball. Now that is scary. 
Posted by: Fortune Jan 27 2008, 01:33 AM
As far as I know, a temporary boost to a limited aspect of an Attribute are not limited to the Attribute cap. I believe this even extends to permanent boosts to a limited aspect of an Attribute as well, like with Bone Lacing.
So, Power Throw, Critical Strike and the like can effectively exceed the cap, because they are not actual additions to the Attribute itself, but rather a single aspect of that attribute.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 27 2008, 01:46 AM
...So say this troll has Attribute Boost Strength 4 and rolls the average for hits (3 based off an MA of 5 yielding a Str of 12) then adds four levels of Power Throw + Missile Mastery (nothing in the rules about the two not stacking), that 8-ball he threw would have a base DV of 11P.
...man I'd want that guy on my dodgeball team. 
Posted by: Fortune Jan 27 2008, 01:57 AM
Attribute Boost is limited to the cap (as far as I know), as it adds to the entire Attribute.
Of course Missile Mastery stacks. It's a dice pool modifier, and is therefore not limited by either the Attribute or Skill caps.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 27 2008, 02:11 AM
...yep, just checked the core rules, Attribute Boost is limited by the augmented cap. However being a troll with a 9 strength he can use up to 6 hits if he can get that many on 9 dice.
Omigoddess! that's a base DV of 13. Thankfully there isn't a Penetrating Throw power.
Posted by: JRandom Jan 27 2008, 02:18 AM
Does the effective bonus from Power Throw exceed the augmented attribute cap though?
Posted by: Synner Jan 27 2008, 02:31 AM
| QUOTE |
| Does the effective bonus from Power Throw exceed the augmented attribute cap though? |
Since the bonuses do not modify Strength, they can indeed exceed the augmented Att. cap.
FYI - Power Throw will be capped at 3 levels in upcoming Street Magic errata.
Posted by: Cardul Jan 27 2008, 03:53 AM
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| FYI - Power Throw will be capped at 3 levels in upcoming Street Magic errata. |
Any ETA on that Errata?
Posted by: Fortune Jan 27 2008, 05:48 AM
| QUOTE (Synner @ Jan 27 2008, 01:31 PM) |
| Power Throw will be capped at 3 levels in upcoming Street Magic errata. |
Is the same cap going to be applied to Critical Strike, being that it is basically Power Throw for unarmed combat?
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 28 2008, 04:10 PM
Of course, Critical Strike takes a Complex Action, but Power Throw is only a simple. So that might be the reason why PT would get a nerf and CS wouldn't.
Speaking as someone with a throwing adept in his group who will be impacted by this rule, I think it's a good idea. Whenever my group is up against something ridiculously powerful like a high-force spirit or armored vehicle, they take the bullets out of their guns so the adept can throw them. Or at least, they would, if the adept ever ran out of ammo, which she doesn't, because she carries a deck of cards.
edit: because I made up a word
Posted by: ixombie Jan 28 2008, 04:23 PM
The question whether a skill or attribute cap applies is whether the rating is being augmented, or whether bonus dice are being added to the pool. Often, when something provides bonus dice, it will actually say 'bonus dice' in there, so it's clear. And when something specifies that it raises a skill or attribute rating, it's an augmentation.
When it doesn't say, there's a basic rule of thumb -- anything that adds a permanent, all-purpose boost to a skill or attribute (like +1 to strength or +1 to pistols skill) is an augmentation. Anything that adds dice only in particular circumstances, irrespective of skill or attribute used (like +1 to all social tests or +1 to resist pathogens) is going to provide bonus dice.
Posted by: Magus Jan 28 2008, 07:47 PM
I still say "Blah" this is really going to hurt my Missions Throwing Adept. I wonder if I can get a rebate on my PPs?
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 28 2008, 08:04 PM
| QUOTE (Synner) | ||
Since the bonuses do not modify Strength, they can indeed exceed the augmented Att. cap. FYI - Power Throw will be capped at 3 levels in upcoming Street Magic errata. |
...so no Troll taking down a Docwagon SRT chopper with a cueball then...whew, that's a relief.
However, I wish Kinesics had a cap as well.
Posted by: Fortune Jan 28 2008, 09:22 PM
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| I wish Kinesics had a cap as well. |
Yo! Add my vote!
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 28 2008, 09:37 PM
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
Yo! Add my vote! |
Indeed. I almost instituted a house-rule to have it fall under the attribute cap.
In reality, it was taking the social adept's player aside and saying, "hey, don't take any more levels of Kinesics, okay?" Which worked fine, but depending on the player I could see that being more of an issue.
Posted by: ElFenrir Jan 29 2008, 12:10 AM
Hmm...I do find one thing kinda odd. Or maybe i just don't understand it.
What's the difference between Kinesics/Power Throw/Insert Power Here capped from house rules, or regular rules?
If someone doesn't like Kinesics being unlimited...cap it at, say, 4 or whatever. If a player is at the very least a halfway decent person, im sure they'd understand and wouldn't fuss about it.
Or try an increasing cost rather than a cap; power up to level 3 might cost normal, past 3 might cost more each level. Leaves things open, but does make it a little tougher to get the really high stuff.
I guess there won't ever be a ruleset that pleases all of the people all of the time. You get the ''some of the people some of the time, and even all of the people some of the time...and some of the people all of the time'', but no rulebook will ever be perfect.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jan 29 2008, 12:31 AM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| Indeed. I almost instituted a house-rule to have it fall under the attribute cap. In reality, it was taking the social adept's player aside and saying, "hey, don't take any more levels of Kinesics, okay?" Which worked fine, but depending on the player I could see that being more of an issue. |
...tell me about it. I had to deal with just such an issue of a player/PC out of hand who refused to take a civil hint his character was wayyy over the edge. That's when I was left with no other choice but to exercise the "Lady Grande" option.
[Lady Grande is my fully maxxed out NPC social adept. She is about the closest thing to a Great Dragon you will ever meet in any of my campaigns.]
Posted by: Fortune Jan 29 2008, 02:33 AM
| QUOTE (ElFenrir) |
| Hmm...I do find one thing kinda odd. Or maybe i just don't understand it. What's the difference between Kinesics/Power Throw/Insert Power Here capped from house rules, or regular rules? |
The official Missions campaign.
Posted by: Magus Jan 29 2008, 03:04 PM
I have a Social Adept with Kinesics at level 4. My group does not think he is over the edge. Like the mage who specializes in the Control Memory/Alter Memory and such spells. It all depends on the character. Yes I max out the upfront pay and max out the maximum payout from the Johnson. But myself and thegroup do not complain when the GM turns it around on us.
Posted by: Hank Jan 29 2008, 04:39 PM
| QUOTE (ElFenrir) |
| What's the difference between Kinesics/Power Throw/Insert Power Here capped from house rules, or regular rules? ... I guess there won't ever be a ruleset that pleases all of the people all of the time. You get the ''some of the people some of the time, and even all of the people some of the time...and some of the people all of the time'', but no rulebook will ever be perfect. |
Yah, I've thought about why it irks me so much when there are obvious imbalances that need to be house-ruled, and I came up with this: I could have written my own game, but I wanted somebody else to write a game for me. In fact, I paid $35 so that somebody else would write it for me.
But it is hard to figure out where the rules should have been written differently and where player/GM preferences will guide the game in the write direction. I mean, didn't we just have a thread about how adepts were underpowered compared to SR3?
Posted by: Ravor Jan 29 2008, 04:49 PM
Thats why I take a slightly different approach to things, sure I could have written my own game, but I instead paid someone else money to do the main writting for me so all I have to do is add a few finishing touches and make a few tweaks here and there. 
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