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Posted by: The Synthcat Nov 30 2003, 07:48 AM

Shadowrun 2nd ed mention that elves are vegetarian. Anybody knows how far does it goes ? I mean, can they eat fish, milk, eggs ? Or is it limited to meat like chicken, beef, and so forth ?

It is also said in shadowrun 2nd ed that elves, orks and trolls are either nocturnal or prefer nighttime activity. How did the corporations adapt to this ? Is the usual work schedule still from 9AM to 5PM ? How about in Tir Tairngire ( or in any place mostly populated by metahumans )?

Posted by: Connor Nov 30 2003, 08:14 AM

I had always read it that most elves have a preference for a vegetarian lifestyle, not that they can't eat meat.

Posted by: Sahandrian Nov 30 2003, 09:01 AM

Personally, I say elves can't digest any form of meat. But I got that idea from Blackjack, not SR2. Orks and Trolls are often said to be nocturnal, but SR3 says that idea was mostly human prejudice, mixed in with messing up their facts a bit.

But don't worry about the elves. They can handle soy products. Though that's the main reason I'd rather not be an elf.

Posted by: Fortune Nov 30 2003, 09:07 AM

Personally, I say it's all a bunch of racist crap.

Posted by: Jimmy_the_Fixer Nov 30 2003, 07:27 PM

personally, I play SR3, and in the metahuman descriptions it stats that the nocturnal tendances of orks was due to people's initial hatred towards orks, so they decided to due their business at night to avoid contact with racists.
they are not nocturnal by nature, but by choice.

as for elves, it says that it's a stereotype that they are all vegetarians. They can eat meat, theres nothing stopping them. it also mentions stereotypes concerning technology, and that people think elves are tree hugging techno-phobes that don't understand how to use a public terminal, but just by reading the book you can see that's not true. Thats why people are suprised to see an elven decker eating steak, it happens all they time, but it goes against the stereotypical veiw most people have.

Posted by: Ancient History Nov 30 2003, 07:32 PM

Vegetarian elves is a result of cultural bias, not genetic, as far as I know.

Metahumans lend themselves to nocturnal activites more easily due to their enhanced vision, but they can operate normally during the day.

I miss allergies. Allergies were cool in metahumans, back in the day.

Posted by: John Campbell Nov 30 2003, 08:02 PM

Ah, yes, back in SR1, when anyone attempting to actually play a metahuman got bent over a table and violated with a Mr. Studd...

If you want SR2's optional allergies, you can still get them as Flaws. I can do without SR1's mandatory random allergies, though, especially with the severity penalty trolls got that gave them a better than 50% chance of being assigned a potentially fatal allergy to something common, like sunlight or plastic.

Posted by: Tanka Nov 30 2003, 08:14 PM

Glad I never played SR1... I should pick me up the sourcebook just for grins and giggles, though.

Posted by: MYST1C Dec 1 2003, 09:22 PM

IIRC the race descriptions of SR2 were not presented solid facts but in-game material written by a controversial scientist.
After all, following his descriptions all elves have long hair, dwarves live mostly in cellars and trolls under bridges...

Posted by: Tziluthi Dec 2 2003, 02:58 AM

pg 48, SR3

Posted by: BIG BAD BEESTE Dec 2 2003, 03:34 PM

Hmmm, pretty much as people have said already - those are stereotypes. Remember that metahumans are humans. Therefore, they have to breathe oxygen, drink water, and eat food to survive. They bleed if cut (sometimes) and are just as likely to die (although with different lifespans).

Basically, the specialised nature of each meteahuman "race" grants benefits to certain environments. Low light vision lets you see better at night so why not hire an elf or ork for nighttime security patrols rather than pay out 2000 for a set of goggles that are only half as effective? And lets be honest, if you've got the ability to lift small crates around without the forklift then trolls working on the docks or as removals men are going to make a better living. What company wants to hire two humans to do the job it take one troll, and they only have to pay a single salary too. Ooops, here comes the Humanis Metahumans are stealing our jobs rhetoric...

Anyhow, as Ancient has mentioned the 1st Ed made every metahuman character take an allergy. (As well as making them all Priority A - Mr. Studd violated indeed John) note that this was randomly determined too, as was the severity of whatever substance(s) you rolled up. Although it was a little limiting (severely in the case of sunlight) it did actually add a hell of a lot of atmosphere and originality to the Sixth World. It made metahumans different from your garden variety AD&D clone-offs.

Personally I still offer my players the option of electing to go for an allergy if generating a metahuman character. Why? Because I then make that characters' Good Karma/Karma Pool Ratio 10:1 just like a human, rather than 20:1. Its still randomly rolled for though - I like the chance element too much. I've stuck the charts I use down below just in case anyone's interested in using them.

Substance - 2D6 Roll:
2 = Silver (Rare substance - IE: Gold)
3-5 = Plastics (Uncommon manufactured substance - IE: Pharmecuticals)
6-8 = Sunlight (Common substance - IE: Pollutants)
9-11 = Iron (Uncommon natural substance - IE: Wood)
12 = Choose a substance.

Note that with the Substance chart above there are secondary options available should the player prefer to select one of those than the main one rolled. Of course, if they do select a secondary substance then apply a +1 modifier to the Severity roll.

Severity - 2D6 Roll
2-4 = Nuisance - Basic contact causes irritation and annoys the character.
5-8 = Mild - A constact distraction/pain. Apply +1 TN modifier to all tests made while in contact with the substance.
9-11 = Severe - Immediate reaction to the afflicted victim. Intense pain and system shock if exposure is prolonged. Victim must make a Body Resistance (6) Test every Body minutes to avoid taking a Light Physical Wound. Some victims might be required to make a Willpower Test to willingly touch/encounter the substance. Weapons made of this substance are at +1 Power when used to attack such unfortunates.
12 = Extreme - Contact cause an immediate Light Physical Wound, and also another Light Physical Wound subsequently every Body rounds of continous exposure to the substance.

Note that Troll characters add a +2 modifier to their Severity rolls. Also all of the effects listed are cumulative with those of previous "lower" severities.

Posted by: The Synthcat Dec 2 2003, 07:16 PM

Good ! So I don't have to worry about my elf character puking her guts out because she inadvertantly ate something like meat....

Posted by: Talia Invierno Dec 2 2003, 07:35 PM

Wasn't it Ehran who had the preference for a vegetarian diet (as a reflection of elvish enlightenment)?

Possible in-game explanation for the lightened emphasis on allergies: those experiencing initial goblinisations and UGE were much more vulnerable than the (default low-mana) human to the then-less-Awakened environment. As the mana level rises and the world continues to Wake, the metavariants are increasingly less likely to trigger an immune reaction by the world itself against their existence within it.

Posted by: Siege Dec 2 2003, 08:20 PM

Although that would be like saying all Americans know baseball or all Chinese know Tai Chi.

It would be fair to say that it plays a prominent element in the relative mainstream of the respective cultures, but by no means is it universal.

-Siege

Posted by: Dogsoup Dec 2 2003, 09:18 PM

...but I like the elf dietary requirement . I think it sets them apart slightly, biologically, from the other metas. Noone (at least not PCs) eats real meat anyway, so it's not going to affect the gaming.

Posted by: Tanka Dec 2 2003, 09:26 PM

It is, however, very racist. Just because we like to call them dandelion-eaters does not mean they can only eat flowers.

Posted by: Wish Dec 2 2003, 10:14 PM

Whether or not PCs eat real meat depends on the sort of game you're playing. Not everybody plays street-level games.

Posted by: Siege Dec 2 2003, 10:20 PM

Posted by: moosegod Dec 2 2003, 10:25 PM

One of my group members had digestive expansion, so he eats just about anything.

So, he was at this ratty hotel and grabbed a SURGEd devil rat with regenration. He bit its head off and was suprised when it regenerated the head. So he bit if off again (four times in all) until he managed to kill it.

Then the other team member with digestive expansion wanted some, but the rat was done for.

Now my group is hunting this specific type of SURGEd devil rat, with some crazy plan for a continuous food source.

Posted by: BumsofTacoma Dec 2 2003, 11:01 PM

With newplayers and old alike I have run into this problem. STEREOTYPES.

It is all up to the PC him/herself. Not all dwarves are riggers or repairmen or plumbers.
Not all trolls are retarded, not all elves are stuck up prissy vegitarians. Not all humans hate Meta's.Physads are not all martial arts masters with killing hands, and the list go's on. UNLESS you choose them to be. You either work with or against the stereotypes. Its all up to you as the GM/PC.

Hope I don't sound to much like an Elf........

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 2 2003, 11:22 PM

Here's to Tinkerbell *raises glass to Elven riggers*

~J

Posted by: Siege Dec 2 2003, 11:32 PM

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Dec 2 2003, 11:39 PM

Posted by: Dende Dec 3 2003, 01:19 AM

Eh Riggers...

Now Elven Deckers... I had an Albino Elven Decker with a flair...he thought he was a black pimp from the 80s...a traumatic experience in his backstory drove him from Tir to Seattle, he went from there. I like playing characters with unique style.

PS- The name he went by is Black Pearl, case you all ever end up in Redmond.

Posted by: Fortune Dec 3 2003, 01:24 AM

Umm, Tinkerbell definitely has unique style.

Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Dec 3 2003, 01:32 AM

Posted by: moosegod Dec 3 2003, 01:34 AM

So change the rules.

If you're a GM.

Posted by: JAG Dec 3 2003, 07:51 AM

Posted by: mfb Dec 3 2003, 07:55 AM

well, there's different types of 'vegetarian'. if elves are vegetarian because they're allergic to animal protien, then no--no fish, no eggs, no milk.

Posted by: JAG Dec 3 2003, 07:58 AM

Theres no type of vegetarian that would eat fish though

Posted by: mfb Dec 3 2003, 08:21 AM

hah. i bet you think there's no gay christians, too. people are crazy; if you can think of it, someone's probably done it. i know there are 'vegetarians' who do it for health reasons, and are okay with chicken--i think most of them are okay with fish, as well.

Posted by: JAG Dec 3 2003, 08:34 AM

The definition of a vegetarian is someone that does not eat meat.

If they eat chicken or fish they are not vegetarian. What they call themselves is a different matter they'd just be wrong!

Unless of course I missed the ruling that has states fishes or chickens are not animals anymore.

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Dec 3 2003, 09:14 AM

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/01/peta031201

http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=vegetarianism that vegetarianism is "the theory or practice of living on a diet made up of vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, and sometimes eggs or dairy products", so I guess JAG is right about the fact that someone who eats fish or poultry can call him/herself a vegetarian, s/he'd just be wrong.

And I strongly agree with the people who've said that the whole Elf=Vegetarian bit is prejudice without any biological basis. I don't even use such a cultural tendency for elves in my games, canon or not.

Posted by: Adarael Dec 3 2003, 12:07 PM

Posted by: JAG Dec 3 2003, 12:12 PM

Don't worry , the Australian ability to consume an infinite amount of lager will never be in doubt!

Posted by: Dende Dec 3 2003, 04:06 PM

Vegens eat no meat by definition, a vergetarian only won't eat certain meats...up to them. If elves are vegetarian maybe like the Jews they won't eat Pork, but maybe they love a nice fat steak. If however they were Vegen, they would eat NO animal byproduct.

Posted by: nezumi Dec 3 2003, 05:01 PM

I think the problem with the definition is the word 'meat'. Meat CAN mean the flesh of any animal, OR can mean the flesh of a mammal (as opposed to poultry or fish). Catholics don't eat meat on Fridays in lent, so fish is fair game. Since meat is also the edible bit of a fruit or a nut, saying a vegetarian doesn't eat meat is simply an ambiguous definition (and I think that's where the problem stems from.)

A vegetarian is one who's diet consists mainly or wholly of vegetables or vegetable products (a herbivore) as per American Heritage. So according to them, anyone who eats more than 50% of his diet from vegetables and vegetable by products would be a vegetarian. The elvish example I'd just call a picky eater : P

A vegan is someone who exclusively eats plant products, and will totally avoid products derived from animals outside of their diet (such as fur or leather).

In other words, a vegetarian can eat jell-o while wearing a leather jacket and a vegan can't.

Posted by: BumsofTacoma Dec 3 2003, 09:06 PM

Posted by: Birdy Dec 3 2003, 11:28 PM

Posted by: BumsofTacoma Dec 4 2003, 01:32 AM

Posted by: Siege Dec 4 2003, 02:05 AM

Fah, if you want to reduce the number of elves enforce body penalties -- if you're that skinny, you're just not going to be able to manage a Body of 5 or 6.

-Siege

Posted by: moosegod Dec 4 2003, 05:33 AM

Or feed 'em to the ravening hellhound packs you keep outside of you base.

Posted by: Birdy Dec 4 2003, 12:51 PM

Posted by: moosegod Dec 4 2003, 06:41 PM

Well, I lack inspectors in the barrens, so I'm not really concerned.

They also help keep the Devil/Demon Rat population down.

Posted by: Centurion Dec 4 2003, 07:08 PM

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Dec 4 2003, 07:20 PM

Yeah, it works out that they are even MORE skinny.

Posted by: Siege Dec 4 2003, 07:48 PM