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Posted by: degenerate Nov 30 2003, 09:08 AM

I'm looking to make a human ganger but i need help with what skills and priotites and stuff i should choose i have read the book but i still feel a bit confused by it all so any help would be appreciated.

Posted by: Connor Nov 30 2003, 09:20 AM

Look over the Sprawl Ganger archetype in the book and adjust as you see fit as far as metatype and such go. It shows what priorities were used and such and should be all you need as a launch pad for making gangers of any sort.

Posted by: Large Mike Nov 30 2003, 09:33 AM

Alright kid, here's the deal. (Don't chafe at me calling you kid, you're a newb asking for help, and I'm playing wise old man.)

I'm going to help you through an example of the priorities for a ganger and give you some tips. For free, even. Aren't I a great guy?

For a ganger, you'll not need alot of money. You could fairly easily put it at priority D and not worry about it. Basically, you'll want to buy a gun and maybe a knife. A low lifestyle, a bike, and a couple of contacts, and you're set. That eats up 20 000 fairly quickly. You could put it at E, but you'd be a hurting ganger. If you can afford it, maybe add a set of spurs.

A ganger's biggest advantage is not in his knowledge or training. They rarely have much of that. The biggest thing they usually have going for them is raw attributes. To be a ganger and live, you've got to be tough, strong, quick, stubborn, and intelligent. Charismatic would be nice, but isn't neccicery. You don't have to have good stats on all these things, but it would be nice to do as much of it as possible well. The most important for a ganger is Body. So, let's put atts at A/ That makes your priorities look like this, so far.

A Attributes
B
C
D Resources
E

To give you the best fighting chance, you'll probably want to be something with some racial modifiers that would work with a ganger. Gangers also tend to be Trolls and Orks more often than not. Ork is in priority D, so might as well throw race into C to make you a troll. The only reason I could think for not doing it this way at this point is if you wanted to be magically active, but you didn't specify that, so we'll do it this way. At this point, you're priorities look like this.

A Attributes
B
C Race
D Resources
E

At this point, you could be magically active by putting Magic in B, but that would make you have only 27 skill points. It's doable, but I prefer to have the breathing room of a little more, so lets throw Magic in E, making you mundane.

A Attributes
B
C Race
D Resources
E Magic

That leaves slot B open for skills. For skills as a ganger, you'll definatly want Brawl and probably Clubs. Pistols are also helpful. A ganger doesn't often see much more than a shotgun, so SMGs, Assault Rifles, and so on, although concievably useful, are not nearly as useful as the other combat skills. Also, you'll want Ettiquette (street) at fairly high, as you'll be dealing with those poeple... pretty much constantly. Also, if you have a bike (and I think any ganger worth his salt should) you might want to throw in the Ride skill. Maybe a little bit of electronics if you intend to steal cars, or a little bit of stealth and possibly running if you intend to B&E or mug people.

There, I've helped. I'm not often this nice. Ask around, they'll tell you.

Posted by: thunderchild Nov 30 2003, 11:16 AM

Ok, Mike dumbed it down nicely but heres how i see it.

A ganger dosent have to be a street thug with his lifes goal to boss around the other grunts.

Gangers can be street specialists. heres a few basic skill packages

Car theif.

Car - 4
Car B/R - 4
Electronics/Automotive systems 3/5
Electronics B/R -3

grand total (15 skill points)

Mugger/Standover man

Intimidation/Physical 3/5
Psycology - 3
Stealth - 3
Clubs 5
grand total (15 skill points)

Break and enter man

Electronics/security systems 4/6
Stealth 4
Electronics b/r 4
Lockpicking 2

grand total (15 skill points)


Dont immediately pidgeonhole the ganger into drinking with his buddies then going for a rumble....

Posted by: Fortune Nov 30 2003, 11:14 PM

Considering he specifically stated he was wanting a human ganger, I'd change those Priorities a little.

A: Attributes
B: Skills
C: Resources
D: Race
E: Magic

The last two are interchangeable.

Posted by: OurTeam Nov 30 2003, 11:42 PM

Thunderchild had a good suggestion for identifying what your ganger is good at. What type of campaign will your ganger be playing in? Is he continuing to be a ganger, in a ganger-campaign (low level skills and attributes), or has he somehow elevated himself into a Shadowrun team because of, perhaps, exceptional skills compared to other gangers.

A Priority "B" in Skills gets you 40 points, which is very high for a typical ganger. If your GM is deliberately running a "low power" game, he may limit your skills to 3 or 4, but if your character has advanced out of a gang because he became too competent to hang around with the other low-lifes, he may join a Shadowrun team with skills of 5 or even a 6.

A Priority "C" in Resources gets you 90,000 of "stuff", but it would be rare for a ganger to have that much equipment. You might easily have acquired on really valuable item that has helped elevate you from gang-level to shadowrun-team level (e.g. one Ares Alpha Assault Rifle). But you generally wouldn't have a lot of stuff. Spending your extra resources to buy "contacts" (SR3 p. 61) would make a lot of sense. Perhaps you know someone in the Ork Underground, a street shaman, a soy-caf vendor, and a Doc-Wagon trooper whose life you saved. You could easily keep to the ganger-level of gear by spending all your extra Resources on contacts. A high charisma and etiquette skill could help explain how you made the transition from gang-life to shadowrunner-life and how you acquired all these contacts.

Your knowledge skills (5 * starting intelligence, SR3 p. 58) are like to be in things like BTL dealing, Stolen Item Fencing, Stolen Item Valuation, Gangs of Redmond (or Puyallup).

Your language skills (1.5 * starting intelligence) are likely to be the English with the City Speak Concentration, as in the Sprawl Ganger archetype (in SR3 a few pages after p. 64).

You should work some on your character's background. Where was he born? What happened to his parents? How did he join a gang? What was he good at within the gang? Did he make any major enemies or friends? Has he left the gang, and why? What does he want to accomplish with his life?

Posted by: Tanka Dec 1 2003, 01:25 AM

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Dec 1 2003, 01:27 AM

Posted by: Tanka Dec 1 2003, 01:31 AM

Meh, fair enough. So then he can be Ork, Dwarf, or Human. Go Ork unless you want to waddle.

Posted by: Fortune Dec 1 2003, 02:16 AM

Posted by: Fortune Dec 1 2003, 02:18 AM

Posted by: Tanka Dec 1 2003, 02:20 AM

Silencio!

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Dec 1 2003, 02:24 AM

Posted by: Fortune Dec 1 2003, 02:32 AM

Posted by: OurTeam Dec 1 2003, 02:44 AM

Awww, come on. Lets just answer in a way that helps the new guy. We can argue over the rules and alternate systems for character creation somewhere else.

Posted by: moosegod Dec 1 2003, 02:44 AM

We should stick to priority. It's simple, it comes in main.

Posted by: Fortune Dec 1 2003, 02:48 AM

Posted by: moosegod Dec 1 2003, 02:52 AM

Clubs(Baseball Bat) 5(7) is always fun and very appropriate.

Posted by: Raptor1033 Dec 1 2003, 03:06 AM

i like keeping clubs at 6 w/o specializing cause i like the idea of picking up random blunt objects and using them equally well. y'know, pipes, bats...... dwarves, etc

Posted by: moosegod Dec 1 2003, 03:13 AM

Yeah, but specializing in bats gives you flavor.

Posted by: Dende Dec 1 2003, 03:17 AM

Specialization also in general gives you negatives in other situations you might have otherwise been far more useful in. Especially with something like Clubs...a club is a club...I ain't gonna specialize in bat, I may prefer to use one, but not specialize in it.

Posted by: moosegod Dec 1 2003, 03:17 AM

True, true.

I personally perfer the flavor of specializing, but to make a valid point.

Posted by: Diesel Dec 1 2003, 03:18 AM

A little high, though...

Posted by: Cain Dec 1 2003, 04:12 AM

In his case, I'd specialize in clubs (Improvised) 5/7. It's one of the best specializations to begin with, and if fits his character.

Posted by: moosegod Dec 1 2003, 04:45 AM

You can do that?

If so, my gangers just got a whole lot better..

Posted by: Fortune Dec 1 2003, 04:46 AM

You sure can.

Posted by: Tanka Dec 1 2003, 04:49 AM

Improvised covers anything from that Dwarf in MilSpec you just grabbed to the chair you happened to stumble over while in a bar fight.

Although, I'm told pool cue sticks are rather nasty. Reach 2, light, and good for crackin' somebody on the head.

It's Improvised because it's what's at hand!

Posted by: thunderchild Dec 1 2003, 10:42 AM

dang doublepost.

Posted by: thunderchild Dec 1 2003, 10:43 AM

Im sorry but clubs/improvised reads a bit like

Sorcery/anything you feel like

Fast talk/bullshit

Intimidation/acting tough

Etiquette/social situations

Its like money for nothing.

And where do you draw the line on improvisation, technicaly a baseball bat is improvised because whacking people is not its purpose, same as a pool cue and a crowbar.

Posted by: Spookymonster Dec 1 2003, 12:25 PM

Pool cues suck for bashing - they're awkward, imbalanced, and snap far too easily. You're better off using it as a pole arm, jabbing your opponent (aim for the kneecaps) and keeping them at a distance.

Posted by: thunderchild Dec 1 2003, 12:52 PM

Posted by: Cain Dec 2 2003, 04:19 PM

The disadvantage to clubs (Improvised) is that you don't get the full benefit for any of the nifty blunt weapons, like stun batons. I've seen far more specializations in Stun batons than Improvised, simply because they do more damage. While Improvised is a very versatile category, you're sacrificing damage potential.

IMG, The line between the two is pretty simple. Clubs comprises the traditional bashing implements, while improvised comprises things you'd find in a trash can/bar room. Chairs, bottles, pool cues, tables, and nearby metahumans, all count as improvised. Baseball bats, crowbars, sledgehammers, and so on don't count, since they're not "improvised". The category only really works for things that are rapidly cobbled into a weapon, not things that are kept around for the express purpose of bashing stuff.

The nastiest specialization I've seen is a troll with off-hand clubs (Riot shield) 4/6. With a reach 1 weapon in the other hand, an opponent is now facing +2 reach and an additional +2 TN to hit the guy. And assuming a skill of 6 in the main weapon, the troll will be using 9 dice per attack, before invoking combat pool.

Posted by: Bearclaw Dec 2 2003, 05:52 PM

Back to the main question...

Ganger/leader/enforcer/fledgling shadowrunner.

Stats...... A
Skills...... B
Cash...... C
Race...... D

Bod....6
Qui.....5
Str.....6
Cha... 4
Int.....5
WP.....4

Clubs..........6 (6)
Unarmed.....4 (4)
Bike............4 (4)
Ett/Street....4/6 (6)
Intimidation.5 (6)
Shotgun......4 (4)
Stealth........4 (4)
Athletics......3 (3)
Leadership...3 (3)

Background skills include gang related stuff, fences, underworld politics, area knowledge, stuff like that.

Spend 20K on a bike, 40K on 8 more level 1 contacts (almost all street level), 20K on a couple buddies, and the last 10K on lifestyle, gear, etc.

This guy is the connected king of the streets that every group of shadowrunners needs.