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Posted by: Mr. McFinigan Apr 15 2008, 01:48 AM

Ahoy hoy. I have a quick question for you guys.

If a mage were to have a magic of 7 or higher, then became a full body cyborg would he retain his ability to cast spells, summon spirits, counter spell, or would he be unable to cast despite the fact that he would not have burned out.

Just sort of curious for future npc's.

Posted by: Tarantula Apr 15 2008, 01:52 AM

Yes, you would retain that ability. Counterspelling would be the useful part of it. Casting force 1/2 spells are generally pointless.

Posted by: Umbra Apr 15 2008, 02:09 AM

It depends on your version of "Full Cyborg"...

If he became a Cranial Containment Unit/"brain-in-a-box" Cyborg like described in Augmentation than no matter what his Magic Attribute was, it now becomes a 0. See Augmentation page 163 under "Cranial Containment Unit (CCU)".

If he gets 2 Cyberarms, 2 Cyberlegs, a Cybertorso, a Cyberskull, Cybereyes, and Cyberears (and so on), then he only looses as much Essence as his cyberware amount and grade indicates. As long as he has a Magic Attribute higher than the lost Essence from cyberware then he still has a Magic Attribute of whatever remains.

To my knowledge only Cyberzombies and CCU Cyborgs have special rules about what your Magic Attribute becomes.


- Umbra

Posted by: Screamin Demon Apr 15 2008, 02:27 AM

Most magic would be useless wouldn't it? With no natural LoS to anything you could never really that many effective spells... Right?

How would a physad's powers work?

Posted by: Tarantula Apr 15 2008, 02:32 AM

Cybereyes count as natural LOS.

Physad powers would work as normal. Things paid for with essence are considered as good as your body.

Posted by: O'Donnell Heir Apr 15 2008, 02:38 AM

Somehow I was expecting a discussion on vampire cyborgs

Posted by: Larme Apr 15 2008, 03:00 AM

Technically, the cyborg's body is not paid for with essence. The only thing he pays for with essence is the CCU. And if the CCU has no eyes, no magic for cyborg. And I'm pretty sure CCUs never have eyes... It's called a jarhead for a reason. But you don't need LoS to summon spirits do you? After all, mystic adepts without astral sight who can't see the spirits they summon can do it. And you could still astrally project.

I also think that physad powers wouldn't affect your cyborg body since you don't pay for it with essence. And your CCU does not have any attributes of its own. Though mental things like enhanced perception or Cognition would probably work fine.

Posted by: Tarantula Apr 15 2008, 03:47 AM

By full body cyborg I assumed cyber skull, torso, arms and legs. Not a CCU.

Posted by: Larme Apr 15 2008, 03:58 AM

Well then we're talking about two different things I'm pretty sure Screamin was also talking about jarheads.

For the record though, I don't jarhead cyborg magician NPCs. That's like duct taping a great dragon to a leviathan to a resonance computer virus AI -- too much! The GM should be creative instead of just mooshing as many awesome powerful things into one opponent as he can...

Posted by: Jaid Apr 15 2008, 04:08 AM

indeed, discussing the effects of being a cyborg and having magical abilities are summed up by "you lose your magical abilities anyways" (this is explicitly called out in the cyborg rules, and applies equally for technomancers btw).

if you're talking about the aforementioned 'more-machine-than-man' concept (cyberlimbs galore, basically) then you could theoretically retain some minimal amount of magical ability.

so basically, the question becomes: are we talking about a cyborg (ie someone who has both machine parts and flesh parts of their body) or a Cyborg (ie the Cyborg that is pretty much a brain-in-a-jar as found in augmentation).

Posted by: Mr. McFinigan Apr 15 2008, 04:41 AM

I was talking about a head in the jar full body cyborg. In which case i didn't catch the line where they said you lost you magic score or resonance score. Thanks for pointing that one out.

Thanks for the input.

Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 15 2008, 04:42 AM

Except Ultrasonic and Radar sensors. Trust me I got flamed quite toasty for arguing that since it's paid with Essence it should work.

Posted by: Tarantula Apr 15 2008, 04:59 AM

Yes, you're correct on that Kitsune. They count as as good as your body unless your body didn't have that capability. Better?

Posted by: nathanross Apr 15 2008, 07:00 AM

Larme has got it on this one, but to reiterate:

• By the description of CCU in Augmentation, Cyborgs loose all magic.
• If they did not loose all their magic (this is outside of RAW now) they would still be unable to cast spells on physical plane.
• This is because they not only have no eyes (paid for with essence to target with) but because they are isolated on the astral as well (due to the fact that all of their essence matter is enclosed)
• I guess you could allow them to use their magic when Astrally projecting, and maybe to summon spirits, but not much else.
• Adept powers would be all but useless since they no longer have a body in which to channel them.

Posted by: Larme Apr 15 2008, 10:46 AM

Well nothing I said actually matters for jarheads, cuz like you say they lose all magic. Asking what happens if they didn't is just gonna confuse people. No magic for cyborgs!

Posted by: Velocity219e Apr 15 2008, 03:45 PM

so when a mage swaps to thermal or low light vision they can't cast spells? must remember that one

Posted by: Tarantula Apr 15 2008, 04:26 PM

Not quite. Those are possible natural visions (elves/orcs) and (trolls/dwarfs) respectively, so I think they still count.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Apr 15 2008, 04:33 PM

I think it's an (admittedly questionable) distinction between sight/vision and "a visual representation". Low-light, thermo, etc are sight/vision. Likewise astral sight. Ultrasound/radar is a visual representation of a non-sight/vision thing, i.e. sound and radar (insert vision is part of the electromagnetic spectrum rant here). For whatever reason, they have been defined as different, the game works better this way, house-rule it if you want but don't complain about the consequences.

Posted by: Tarantula Apr 15 2008, 04:38 PM

Sounds good to me. All I know is normal/lowlight/thermo/astral works for casting, and ultrasound/radar/ecolocation(with the fancy bioware) doesn't.