Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ What's your favourite race?
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys May 19 2008, 03:14 AM
As we all should know by now, I love orks. 
While they have certain physical advantages they somehow remain underdogs in society. I have always had a soft spot for the underdogs (my favourite hockey team is the Canucks, who's been underdogs since their existance began). Gary Cline of Horizon and Yuri whatsisname from Evo are heroes!
Posted by: JeffSz May 19 2008, 03:36 AM
Trolls are -my- favorite. I like to give these hulking powerhouses of muscle a little bit of a sense of humor.
In one of my games a troll named Gridlock armed himself with a giant iron cross to fight vampires. When a vampire declared "You idiot, crosses don't work!" and charged at him, he swung the cross and sent her promptly through the apartment's wall, shrugged, and stated, "Works fine."
W00t!
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys May 19 2008, 03:43 AM
In one of my games a troll named Gridlock armed himself with a giant iron cross to fight vampires. When a vampire declared "You idiot, crosses don't work!" and charged at him, he swung the cross and sent her promptly through the apartment's wall, shrugged, and stated, "Works fine."
W00t!
Heh!
Posted by: Heath Robinson May 19 2008, 03:50 AM
I like humans. Whilst I have no problems with Shadowruns fanasy influences, I am in it for the cyberpunk and transhumanism.
Humans are also really flexible, with that free point of edge and no variation in their maximums.
Posted by: Fortune May 19 2008, 03:53 AM
Elf Elf Baby! 
Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm May 19 2008, 04:07 AM
Other. Depending on the whim, 'Other' may be metavariant, SURGE, or extremely other. (I have speculated at the entertainment value of a wolf-shifter who SURGEd some spikes and a trollification. Big pointy dog with regeneration. Possibly also a pacifist vegitarian or something, depending on the crowd and game.)
Posted by: Muspellsheimr May 19 2008, 04:27 AM
Human. The only other race I will play is Elf, and that rarely. This is in any game with races other than human. I have a single character concept that I am tempted to go Ork with Human Looking, for the attributes, but...
On a side note, I do not consider "vampire" and similar as a race, but as a template added to a race. Not that I would play as any template other than vampire anyways.
Posted by: PlatonicPimp May 19 2008, 04:42 AM
The tour de france. It's the only race I can really get into. I love bikes, you see, and the idea of combining the fitness of man with the engineering of machine in one single perfect expression of motion....
Oh. OH. Yeah, well, we call those metatypes, not races. Races has.... implications that are both inaccurate and inappropriate.
And Orks, of course.
Posted by: Muspellsheimr May 19 2008, 05:05 AM
Although "Race" is technically incorrect, as it is a variation within a species, not a seperate species, it can be and often is used interchangeably with "Species" in common usage. As such, in Shadowrun it can and is used interchangeably with Metatype. In fact, Race is probably closer to Metatype than it is to Species, as the various metatypes are still technically human.
And the context determines the definition being used. So your little thing about the Tour de France is both inaccurate & inappropriate.
Posted by: PlatonicPimp May 19 2008, 05:23 AM
And the context determines the definition being used. So your little thing about the Tour de France is both inaccurate & inappropriate.
Bah. I didn't say the usage was inappropriate, I said the implications were. Specifially, I meant it sounded all DnD-ish.
What, you didn't think I was offended because of some Pollitically correct bull-drek, did you? I only get offended by MY PCs.
Posted by: FrankTrollman May 19 2008, 07:02 AM
I get annoyed when people talk about races of humans, because there really aren't any. It's like a talking about races of Rottweiler. But the way Orks and Elves have children which are either Ork or Elf and not a blend between makes referring to the difference as "racial" actually fairly appropriate.
-Frank
Posted by: CircuitBoyBlue May 19 2008, 01:00 PM
Just calling them "elves" and "orks" sounds D&D-ish. You just have to fix that by giving them a cyberarm and a BTL addiction. It was called "Race" in the old Priority System (and everywhere else in the rules, I think). I think it's a valid term.
Posted by: WearzManySkins May 19 2008, 01:06 PM
I voted for Orks in part to my focus on the Ork Underground, and yes the racial advantages are good also.
If a second vote/choice I would have also voted SURGED.
WMS
Posted by: Stahlseele May 19 2008, 01:17 PM
Trolls . . the bigger, the better . . the meaner the . . badder i think *g*
someone has to be the power-house . . and i like playing cyber/bio-combat-monsters ^^
i like to give them int 4+ and play them as if they were int 1 to the other players . .
big dumb good natured troggy on the front . . and on the back machiavellian intelligence mixed with a sadistic sense of humor and an ego and sarcasm that fit to the body too . .
close second: dwarves . . they ain't small, they are compact!
compact little party machines *g*
third places goes to orks, because i like me some waaaaaaagh!
4th place is humans . . kinda squishy, but OK people mostly . .
and elves are last . . don't get me wrong, i don't have anything against elves . . i think there should be one hung on every tree out there . . there's many elves in my life . . and i only have an Savalette Guardian! *g*
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys May 19 2008, 01:18 PM
Aaaand Orks and Humans are neck and neck with Trolls trailing on the outside, followed by Dwarves and trailing the pack from far, far away are the lowly elves. Notice that there is no capitol E for the lowly elves.
Posted by: Sir_Psycho May 19 2008, 01:27 PM
I like them all. Although I've never had much of an urge to play a troll, or even an ork, as of yet. It's not that I don't like orks and trolls, I think they're great, but I've never played a combat-focused character, and the penalties can be pretty prohibitive.
Posted by: Wesley Street May 19 2008, 01:29 PM
I don't dislike metahumans but trying to role-play one in a way that I felt was appropriate and multi-layered has always been difficult for me (as is attempting to appropriately role-play a character of the opposite gender). So I usually play a human male by default.
Posted by: Sir_Psycho May 19 2008, 01:37 PM
I used to do that. I modelled my first character upon myself as a thin and sarcastic extrovert. So I was a male elf.
But I got over that, currently I'm playing something I resemble in no way; a vegan virgin czech corporate researcher turned hacker and street doc. Did I mention that she is a dwarf?
Posted by: CanRay May 19 2008, 01:40 PM
I can't really say which I like the most, save that they all have their place, and some that love to break it.
But, I gotta go with Orks. At the very least, you know you have a big family to support you. 
Posted by: nezumi May 19 2008, 01:47 PM
Where's the option for drop bear???
Posted by: Wesley Street May 19 2008, 01:49 PM
This may not be something you can answer but how does one role-play/act as a character of the opposite gender and not fall into the trap of either a) playing a woman who is a male in all definitions except biologically or b) playing a gender stereotype? I ask because this is something I struggle with myself. I also GM for a group that is 60% female and I try really hard to avoid offending when role-playing female NPCs.
Man, this is too deep for Monday morning.
Posted by: paws2sky May 19 2008, 02:07 PM
For me, it depends what edition we're talking.
1st edition, I was all about playing humans because they didn't get gimped by requiring Priority A for Race and those potentially crippling (and mandatory) allergies.
2nd edition, I was still mostly a human player, though I tinkered a bit with ork street samurai and dwarf mages.
3rd edition seemed like trolls were the thing to be unless you wanted to play a gun bunny, face, or astral asskicker, in which case you took elf.
And now in 4th edition, I'm on the fence.
- Orks are damn cheap and really, really hard to pass up for all the bonuses they get.
- I'm loving trolls again because they don't have to pay out extra for mental attributes and they get fantastic starting Body and Strength.
- Elves are kind of bleh. Great if you want to kick ass on the astral (without casting spells), play a Cha-based tradition, or just want to exceed the BP cap for attributes.
- I don't care for dwarves in this edition because they're carrying over the tech orientation stereotype from 3rd. I don't mind that they happen to be good at tech stuff, but I really preferred dwarf mages.
- Humans are a good go-to metatype if you figure you'll be short on points.
All that said, I voted for trolls because my long-time desire to play a Troll Face is finally within reach!
-paws
Posted by: CanRay May 19 2008, 02:51 PM
-paws
http://fromtheshadowsrpg.blogspot.com/2007/11/advertisement-underbridge-and.html!
Posted by: cryptoknight May 19 2008, 02:53 PM
Humans are also really flexible, with that free point of edge and no variation in their maximums.
/yes
exactly my feeling... While I have no qualms about others playing elves, dwarves, orks and trolls... in my 19 years of Shadowrun, I have only and always made humans
Posted by: Kyoto Kid May 19 2008, 04:25 PM
...Humans. It's all about the BPs baby (I like lots o' skills), and that extra point of Edge. Oh, and yes, Humans are still the largest percentage of the population unless you are in one of those pixie enclaves like the old TT or the Nog.
Posted by: DireRadiant May 19 2008, 04:29 PM
I thought the Bubblegum Rally was going to be on the list. 
Posted by: ArkonC May 19 2008, 04:37 PM
I create a lot more characters than I play, and the ones I create are any race that seems to fit the concept...
But when it comes time to play, I usually go for elves (of elf like) in most RPGs, hell, I even play elves when orks are mathematically very superior and cheaper (like in SR)...
Maybe it's just because I'm tall, slender, graceful and really good looking... 
Posted by: imperialus May 19 2008, 07:36 PM
And the context determines the definition being used. So your little thing about the Tour de France is both inaccurate & inappropriate.
My goodness... the things people on Dumpshock find to bitch about.
That said though I tend to gravitate towards humans on account of their versatility. I also like using cyberlimbs so the idea of paying twice for the same enhancement bugs me. That said though my favorite PC was a Troll so they come in close second.
Posted by: ElFenrir May 19 2008, 08:27 PM
I'm kind of in between humans and elves.
From a gameplay standpoint, they are both versatile. They can basically be anything-from powerful mages to staggeringly good melee guys(Elves get the Agility bonus, and having the Charisma bonus sorta lets you play with more BPs in the other stats, minmaxy, but yeah, it works. ) They fit in well most places; it's easy to go human-looking with an elf if you want. In the game world, they both suffer a little less stigma than the rest(normally.)
From a fluff standpoint, I dunno. I guess I'm going to be completely shallow here and say I like my martial-artist prettyboys. 
To be fair, though, I have played, and enjoyed, all races at some point or another. So when I have my humans and elves up front, the others aren't that far behind for me, at all.
And I notice now the poor dwarves are in the back. I kinda figured they would be, not many folks like playin' the little guy. I do find 'em fun now and again. I more or less play with ''Ok, I have this concept...what race would be cool?''
And for the record, I find myself playing less-combat oriented orks and trolls much of the time; the combat guys I tend more toward the human/elf. I guess I've seen too many stereotypical wussy elves and big, hit-stuff trolls that I like subverting it as much as I can.
Posted by: Sweaty Hippo May 19 2008, 08:55 PM
I like Orks; I think that they're cool. That, and the Gunslinger Adept picture is sexxxy! 
Posted by: Kyoto Kid May 19 2008, 09:43 PM
...excellent question.
Posted by: WildBill May 19 2008, 10:48 PM
I voted Human, because I always seem to encounter people who only play elves, or only play orks or trolls, because of the advantages or the way elves are viewed as superior. It's nice to show that the baseline can still be just as good.
Posted by: fool May 19 2008, 10:58 PM
i have to say that I've played all the races listed here, and enjoyed them all. That said, it depends on what the character is supposed to do. Are they supposed to be a tough guy, I usually go with the racist stereotype..troll, orc, dwarf. are they supposed to be a smooth talker.. elf. versatile, human etc etc.
Posted by: Rajaat99 May 20 2008, 01:51 AM
Orks are my favorite.
Elves, my most hated.
Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm May 20 2008, 04:15 AM
You may want to reconsider your pic then.
Posted by: ElFenrir May 20 2008, 12:39 PM
Ok, I gotta ask. Not trying to derail here.
But...why the Elf hatred? Is it because they have their own nation(s)? Or is the the IE thing?
Do you think, if, say...Dwarves had two nations and were immortal, they would be the hated race? If it were Trolls, or even Orks?
Is it because attractive races are automatically hated by most? I mean, remember in Shadowrun, people can take on many looks-it's not like the fantasy game. There are, I'm sure plenty of ugly elves, just like I've seen pictures of orks and trolls that are actually pretty attractive by human standards. (Hell, ive seen some canon elf pictures that don't look any better or worse than anyone else-some look damn scary, in fact. I tease about my trenchcoat prettyboys above, I know if I wanted to I could make a really attractive ork or play and elf that fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch.)
Was it the IEs that left the bad taste in folks mouths? I'd blame whoever decided to invent them, not the poor elves.
I'm just curious, to be honest. Not trying to start flame wars or anything; again, while I like humans and elves, I dig all the races, in the end.
Posted by: Fortune May 20 2008, 12:51 PM
They're all just jealous!
Posted by: Fuchs May 20 2008, 01:07 PM
For me, the Tir hype in the earlier editions, as well as the whole IE stuff just sounded far too much like D&D's "Complete book of elves".
Posted by: CanRay May 20 2008, 01:21 PM
Shadowrun: http://blog.wired.com/geekdad/images/2008/04/01/ork.jpg.
Posted by: Stahlseele May 20 2008, 01:37 PM
i hate elves because they get boni without mali . . and they get the whole good looking thing and more or less eternal youth . . even the non immortal elves . . and nobody really holds it against them that they are out and out racist pigs but as soon as orks and trolls or dwarves start something like that the whole world is in uproar immediately . . that and elves have the whole better than thou gig going . . i really don't deal well with arrogant people . . let alone a whole race . . even if they are only imaginary . .
Posted by: ArkonC May 20 2008, 01:41 PM
As I said before, I usually go for elves, in most RPGs, and the Tir-hype and IE bugs the hell out of me, not only does the time line not make sense (as to the founding of the Tir nations), but it just makes it seem like elves are superior...
It is indeed just too D&D...
In SR4, if anything, orks are superior, strong and tough (cheap on BPs), breed like rabits, it's them who should have the manpower to make their own nations...
They get overpriced boni, compared to the other races...
And I have yet to play an arrogant elf...
But yeah, that's the problem, the fluff makes elves seem like charmed ones who can do anything and get away with it...
Posted by: CanRay May 20 2008, 01:52 PM
Except for the issue that those social traits are only found in the Tir's. You get an Elf from, say, Texas or New York, you know how they'll act?
Like a Texan or New Yorker of the same age group. That's. It.
There hasn't been multiple generations of Elves to even let them know how long they'll live! They know they'll live longer than Orks, but, damn, some Goldfish live longer than Orks. Trolls, too, have a shorter lifetime, but Trolls that were born are just starting to hit their "Old Age" bit now.
Remember, by 2070, it's been less than 50-years since the Goblinization. And less than 60-years for the Elves and Dwarves started being born (Aside from the rare Spike Baby).
That's not even a human lifetime. Yes, changes happen in a lifetime, but a culture of arrogance at being "Immortally young"? Not yet.
Posted by: adamu May 20 2008, 01:58 PM
For me it's orks lately. Great bonuses for cheap, yeah, but mostly they are dirty and rough, as opposed to prissy and effete (yes, I am stereotyping, but since these "races" don't exist, hopefully they won't come for me during America's upcoming Cultural Revolution). Also, they got a huge boost role-playing-wise from the whole Or'zet/orxploitation thing.
Of course I could play trolls, but I have a pet peeve about them generally getting off easy in play - I mean, most GMs (including me, I fear) don't really make enough of the fact that the 3-meter behemoths shouldn't be able to fit into a lot of vehicles and some older buildings. They are a tiny percentage of the populace, and mostly disenfranchised - I don't see all buildings being made to have an extra meter of headroom on every floor...What's the penalty for always having to fight hunched over?
As long as I am rambling aimlessly - people rag on elves, but I see them played pretty constantly. Almost every forum or table-top game I am in has at least one in the group, usually several.
But dwarves - been playing 14 years and met ONE dwarf PC. That's probably a BIT below average, but no one can tell me they are not the least played. I just don't think anyone wants to fantasize about being short.
Posted by: Stahlseele May 20 2008, 02:02 PM
"i ain't short! i am compact damn it!"
Posted by: JeffSz May 20 2008, 02:19 PM
My only issue with elves is that I've had players who are ALWAYS elves...no matter what system they play, if they can be an elf, they are an elf.
In the games I run, I limit the number of Elf NPC's, to the point where they seem as rare as Trolls. That way when a player decides to make an Elf character, I'm not sick of them anymore
Forget that in D&D, I always ALWAYS played a half-elf bard or rogue... always.
Posted by: ornot May 20 2008, 02:38 PM
I don't have a favourite, although I don't tend to play Trolls, as I don't normally go for the big hard hitter.
Dwarves are seriously under-rated, which is a shame, and Orcs are an amazing deal in terms of BPs for Attributes. Elves I quite like, despite the poor deal they get in SR4. It's pretty much swapping 1 Edge for low light vision, and a higher charisma and agility cap, which pales compared to the free points of strength and body the other metatypes get for their BP investment. It does, at least, limit occasions where half the team are elves. Now they'll just all be orcs with uncouth, "'cos if my charisma sucks I may as well get all the BPs I can, and sink 'em into combat". Well, that only happens sometimes.
But I wouldn't go as far as to say I have a favourite...
Posted by: Kyoto Kid May 20 2008, 07:26 PM
...nice one. I'll have to borrow that line for Kat Markova sometime.
Posted by: Cantankerous May 20 2008, 07:39 PM
Trolls baby, what else?
I love the dichotomy you can create with these huge guys and breaking down the prejudice barriers with them. It's for this reason that I tend to go for the most brutish appearance with them possible, with no 3rd edition plus smoothing of the skin, give me my trolls lumpy and ...trollish.
Isshia
Posted by: Mickle5125 May 20 2008, 07:49 PM
In most games I've played, I've needed gunbunnies who can sneak and talk their way out of things... they don't need to be able to tank for the most part because the enemies weren't as accurate... so elves have been my favorite.
However, humans and trolls come a close second and third respectively, simply because the buildpoints and extra edge are nice, but there're just some times when you need to build something that can take a shotgun blast to the chest and laugh.
Posted by: Kingmaker May 20 2008, 07:57 PM
I love the dichotomy you can create with these huge guys and rip apart the prejudice barriers with their trolly fists.
Fixed.
I usually play humans or elves. One of the funnest groups I ever played with had three elf PCs: my guy (a former Catholic paramilitary from Tir Na Nog), an orthodox Jew from Israel, and a Tir Na Nog path mage. It created an interesting group dynamic.
Posted by: Stahlseele May 20 2008, 08:26 PM
I usually play humans or elves. One of the funnest groups I ever played with had three elf PCs: my guy (a former Catholic paramilitary from Tir Na Nog), an orthodox Jew from Israel, and a Tir Na Nog path mage. It created an interesting group dynamic.
that sounds like the lead in to some dumb joke O.o
Posted by: Kingmaker May 20 2008, 11:04 PM
More than one, actually. The team hacker was a dwarf from the Tir, and the player felt it was his IC obligation to assemble as many elf jokes as possible. Most weren't funny, just bad.
Posted by: Stahlseele May 20 2008, 11:05 PM
elf jokes . . who needs elf jokes?
all elves are a single big joke *g*
Posted by: Leofski May 20 2008, 11:26 PM
While human is tempting, with the flexibility, cheapness and extra edge, it has to be the orks. Sure the stats are nice and there's the whole underdogs thing, Orxploitation etc, but the real reason why? Two words, Gary and Kline. He is the coolest guy in Shadowrun, just look at his artwork in Corp Enclaves. He's the first corper who to my mind reflects the media profile of certain corp highflyers and politicians, to have that air of superstardom that AAA CEO's are entitled too. He's not a simple playboy like Villiers always struck me as, A draconic plot device like Lofwyr or an immortal schoolgirl. Instead, theres a carefully crafted personality based on demographic research coupled with what appear to be small attempts to cause positive change in some areas,which is both totally Shadowrun and RL. Its also one of the few locations that comes to mind of characters not defined by meta stereotypes. One of the most charismatic guys in the world is an ork :O.
/(semi-horizon fanboy) rant over
Posted by: Cantankerous May 21 2008, 05:03 AM
I usually play humans or elves. One of the funnest groups I ever played with had three elf PCs: my guy (a former Catholic paramilitary from Tir Na Nog), an orthodox Jew from Israel, and a Tir Na Nog path mage. It created an interesting group dynamic.
Nah, nah, nah, unfixed.
For me, the idea with these guys, since this is RP, is to stress the non-linear or non-obvious aspects. The Troll former Merc who has an extensive knowledge of art and culture, a couple of PhDs and a rep for being "gallant"; the Troll Hermetic Mage who is exceedingly cerebral and who isn't even in the same league as his teams strongmen strength wise...and they're both Elves, the Troll former Doc Wagon Medic who's certainly capable with his fists and with weapons but who's entire focus is saving lives... not ending them.
Isshia
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys May 21 2008, 06:26 AM
/(semi-horizon fanboy) rant over
Larry Zincan's pretty kewl too, the way he toppled the Tir and masterfully piloted the coup of the century...
Posted by: Critias May 21 2008, 07:12 AM
Elf, hands down.
And if you have to ask why, you'll just never understand! *snooty nose-in-the-air*
Posted by: Cheops May 21 2008, 02:59 PM
Long Live the Might Orkish Nation!
Posted by: Leofski May 21 2008, 04:03 PM
But he hired Kline for his PR
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys May 21 2008, 06:25 PM
A very wise decision, eh? Orks gotta stick together!
Posted by: Lionhearted May 21 2008, 09:10 PM
I build my characters on concepts not on metatype 
However most of my concepts seem to run into the pitfall of racial stereotypes if i play anything but humans.. and some are plain wrong, the troll femme fatale?
Posted by: Sweaty Hippo May 22 2008, 12:35 AM
Why is it that elves in various RPGs seem to be arrogant pricks?
Posted by: Sir_Psycho May 22 2008, 12:57 AM
Tall, Thin, rich, beautiful? Don't they sound like real-life arrogant pricks?
I think Dwarves are very versatile, yet cheaper than elves and trolls. Their ork-like physical bonuses are good, and I've heard good things about dwarf sams. The Willpower boost is great for a drain stat, so they make enduring magicians, and hardy, solid hackers. The natch thermo is good too.
The running multiplier is the only part I hate about them, though. But if I was a Dwarf samurai, I'd probably have my stump legs torn off and replaced with Kid Stealth legs.
Posted by: Nigel May 22 2008, 12:59 AM
Sweaty Hippo: They were in LotR, which was one of the largest influences on D&D (etc. etc.) and therefore leading to the stereotype of "Elf = uppity dick."
Anyway.
I prefer humans to all else, in all RPGs. Elves are acceptable, as are Orks. I don't like trolls, unless I'm deliberately going for a heavy. Even then, I will play a Dwarf over one. I like more Human-esque characters than otherwise, I guess.
Posted by: Sweaty Hippo May 22 2008, 01:05 AM
Whatever happened to originality?
How about elves that aren't uppity dicks?
In Shadowrun, I guess that it's mostly the Tir Na Nog ones.
Posted by: Fortune May 22 2008, 01:43 AM
I wouldn't bet on it!
It's definitely generalizing, but I would say that Tir Tairngire elves have nothing on those from Tir Na Nog when it comes to uppity snobbishness.
And as for LotR, I never really found Legolas to be all that uppity and arrogant. Especially when compared to some of the other companions.
Posted by: Critias May 22 2008, 05:07 AM
Because they're better than you. Duh.
Posted by: Nigel May 22 2008, 06:08 AM
It's definitely generalizing, but I would say that Tir Tairngire elves have nothing on those from Tir Na Nog when it comes to uppity snobbishness.
And as for LotR, I never really found Legolas to be all that uppity and arrogant. Especially when compared to some of the other companions.
[offtopic]Well, not Legolas exactly - he was a damned personable elf. However, consider some of the older elves - Elrond to give a widely-known example. Though considering their origins (read the Silmarillion if you haven't) they have good reason to be so.[/offtopic]
I'm really sorry for derailing your thread like this. I have nothing more to contribute to the discussion, which means I'll take this discussion to PM if it continues.
Posted by: ArkonC May 22 2008, 06:16 AM
I'm really sorry for derailing your thread like this. I have nothing more to contribute to the discussion, which means I'll take this discussion to PM if it continues.
I wouldn't consider this derailing, the OP did ask for why as well...
Now if I'm not mistaken, wasn't legolas a young elf by any standard?
Maybe getting snobby and stuck up is an effect of getting older, like with humans...
Posted by: Cantankerous May 22 2008, 08:46 AM
No, he was a more than two millenia old.
He makes the comment when entering Lorien that it makes him "feel young" as he has not felt since he started travelling with "you children".
Isshia
Posted by: Fortune May 22 2008, 09:14 AM
My point being that Legolas is the main elven character in LotR, and he is not portrayed in that manner. Other elves are, but they don't hold the spotlight in that particular book.
A certain arrogance has always been attributed to elves and the 'fae' in literature well before LotR. Age is definitely a factor in how they have been portrayed throughout history. When everyone around you is destined to die off before you have even grown out of childhood, it would tend to give you a superior outlook on the 'lesser races'.
Oh, and as for the Silmarillion, I have worn out a few copies.
Posted by: ElFenrir May 22 2008, 10:02 AM
Dwarves, in many circles, have also been known to have an air of arrogance about them with their abilities. Not 'snobby' per se...but some arrogance nonethless, and you could indeed pin that on being a rather long-lived race, too. Dwarves in SR are said to live well into the 3 digit range, and we don't quite know how old they can get, either. Again, the first ones only appeared...60 years ago?
Some fantasy dwarves have been known to get to the 400-500 year range.
But i can kinda agree, you start living for hundreds of years, and yeah, that 60 year old guy is a child to you.
I can agree that Tir Na Nog elves probably are a bit more snobby than Tir Tangire. But yeah....put an elf on the poverty line with a couple of junkie parents(no doubt that there are junkie elf parents) and see how uppity and snobby they are. They'll probably beat you with a pipe just as fast as anyone that lived that life.
Hell, I had an elven character kinda like that-his parents, though were human, uber-religious Humanis freaks...he was born an albino elf. Needless to say his parents were appalled they had a 'demon elf' as a child, and he did not grow into the proper, snobby uppity elf; he was probably the most bloodthirsty one of the gang who might have still been mildly psychotic from his old hackjob ware and stints with drugs had he not come into some money from very ill-gotten means to get himself fixed up. I don't doubt there are other elves like him around, either.
It's all how it's done. One of my troll characters was a rather classic example of a rich, British big-game critter hunter. Not a snob, he was actually quite a nice fellow, but he was quite refined in his ways, and did not kill people.
But old stereotypes can cling to many a race in many a game.
Posted by: Fortune May 22 2008, 10:22 AM
I play elves almost all the time, and they come in all varieties. Even way back in my Basic D&D days, I didn't feel constrained to follow any general stereotypes. I just like elves. Even when they are not cost-effective.
Posted by: ArkonC May 22 2008, 10:30 AM
Well, the arrogance part couldn't be the reason they are disliked...
Dwarves are arrogant...
And gruff and rude and...
And they aren't hated, they're mostly ignored...
I've only known one guy who prefered playing dwarves, and that was because he could powergame the hell out of Dwarven mages (in a bad way, with glaring weaknesses)...
I really do think it's the charmed existence of theirs that somehow rubs people the wrong way...
Posted by: Fuchs May 22 2008, 10:35 AM
I think it's a relic of the overpowered elves of old D&D, and more recently the "whatever class you want, we got the perfect elven subrace for it" 3.X version.
But mostly I think it's not the elves from literature, but the elves we saw portrayed and even more so the ones we saw played in RPGs that can cause the race to become hated.
Posted by: Stahlseele May 22 2008, 10:51 AM
i like dwarves . . sure, they are gruff and rude and stubborn . . heck, makes em easier to roleplay for me *g*
but dwarves have the stereotype attached to them that they like to drink and eat and build cool toys . . technically speaking they are the nerds of fantasy *g*
Posted by: DocTaotsu May 22 2008, 11:04 AM
I usually end up playing a human but I voted Orks because I freakin love them from a story perspective. Here to go, born to die, you're middled aged by college and freakin dead by retirement. Keeps you on edge, makes things mean a little more.
Posted by: Leofski May 22 2008, 01:26 PM
That's their natural limit. Just makes them hungrier to hit the big time so they can earn the money to stay alive.
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys May 23 2008, 03:14 AM
Heh...looks like dwarfs "unoficially" suck!
Posted by: Fortune May 23 2008, 03:31 AM
Well, they are the right height ...
Posted by: Kerris May 23 2008, 04:08 AM
fix'd in bold
I tend to play humans, just because they fit most concepts, and I'm not creative enough to come up with decent, non-cliche concepts for other races.
I wouldn't call them my favorite, though. I guess I don't really have a favorite.
Posted by: kanislatrans May 23 2008, 04:21 AM
Dwarves for me, thank you. followed closely by orks. then Humans, Trolls and finally elves .
Not that I have anything against Elves, just can't seem to keep one alive. Its a curse I think. I have a chummer who had a similar problem with shamans: could be invisible,wearing Mil Spec heavy armor behind a force 10 ward. and still be the guy that catches a lucky round to the instant dead spot. 
Posted by: Hocus Pocus May 26 2008, 03:06 PM
I like the three legged race. Or the patato sack race *yuck,hyuck*
Posted by: Faelan May 31 2008, 03:32 PM
Well I picked Elves. I have seen someone play the arrogant elf stereotype once in 28 years of gaming, and they received exactly what was coming to them...a big pile of party smackdown, immediately following the very public NPC smackdown. Needless to say the player quickly amended their world view. As far as the IE thing well, I like it but mostly because of how it played out in Earthdawn, I understand the use or rather abuse of IE involvement was frequent and the seeming end all be all of things. If a dragon was not behind it, an IE was, everyone else was just a bystander, patsy, or fool. If however you were into Earthdawn, the existence of IE works and fulfills a purpose in the overall story. So for me the enjoyment of IE's stems entirely from the Earthdawn side of things.
Posted by: Iota Jun 2 2008, 11:05 AM
It`s funny that in the whole discussion about elves being hated and orks being the underdogs no one mentioned that it is actually more the other way round.
I mean: most of the players i know hate or at least dislike elves for what ever reason. That`s why i personally like to play elves, because they`ll for sure will have a hard time in any group, making them more underdog than any troll or ork could ever be.
Challenging roleplay!
Moreover elves are effective killing machines because of their high agillity.
Of course, a troll just takes the bullets, but i always prefered killing the othres before they can kill me...
Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 2 2008, 12:30 PM
Playing-Wise Elves might be underdogs, but Society-Wise in Shadowrun? no, not so much . .
as for the killing .. i like trolls, orcs and dwarves because they can deal as much damage with their fists as they can deal with most weapons . .
as for trolls and taking bullets . . come on, admit it . . just calmly walking up to the guy shooting you and waiting for him to go clik clik clik clik and giving him the cruel smile and beating him upis just too good to pass up ^^
Posted by: Iota Jun 2 2008, 01:57 PM
Ok i have to admit that trolls are a lot of fun (at least for the players...i`m just mastering a campaign having three trolls in the team and it takes a lot of preparation to scare them at least a little...)
But why making a difference between playing-wise and society-wise? I mean a shadowrunner ended up in the shadows, because he probably couldn`t make it in society. So an elf with no other choice than joining some runner team will have to deal with what ever the teammates throw at him.
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys Jun 2 2008, 01:58 PM
Heh! *Stahlseele the troll stands in front of the pistol armed elf Iota*
BANG! BANG! BANG! CLICK! CLICK! CLICK!"
*sTAHLSEELE* "You done?"
Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 2 2008, 03:01 PM
yeah, kinda like that ^^
either hit em with 20M Damage Fists
or hit em with 20D Pole-Arm . .
i don't really care for Heavy Weapons, i am my own heavy weapon *g*
only thing that can really scare trolls is chem-tech, as it's still hard enough to roll 10's to not drop and fall asleep when hit with Gamma Scopolamine Arrows . .
but everything else is only a question of Armor-Mods in SR3 . . 8 Worn and 3 build in Armor makes 11, and it's easy enough to roll 6's to stage down a Hit from a PAC . . GM threw grenades (16M Damage) at my Troll once, i got away with 1 light damage, no damage, 1 light damage . . yes, he was kinda peeved about that . . then i went and cancelled out his magics due to insane dice-rolls on my part . . twice . . one of his mages dropped dead as the drain killed him and my Troll only had Serious-Stun after that *snickers*
as for the elves again: society views them as being better than orcs and trolls, so that more or less takes care of them being underdogs society-wise . .
and in my group, they ain't underdogs when it comes to playing . . there's been times when i was the only one NOT playing an elf x.x . .
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 3 2008, 12:36 AM
...dock that man a karma point in Pun damage and misspelling Potato.
Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys Jun 3 2008, 03:15 AM
Don't trolls fear Mana Bolt even a little bit?
Posted by: Sweaty Hippo Jun 3 2008, 03:25 AM
Only if the Mage casting it isn't an incompetent mook.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)