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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Viewing AR
Posted by: Jimson Jun 5 2008, 07:00 PM
I'm sure this is an easy question, but I just needed to confirm it. In order to view anything in AR, a character needs some sort of lens (sunglasses, glasses, contact lenses, etc.) or cybereyes, and then have them linked up to their commlink. Am I correct? If yes, then a character walking do the street and normal meat eyes and nothing on them cannot view the ARO's in their normal field of vision, but could seem them on their commlink display.
Posted by: paws2sky Jun 5 2008, 07:07 PM
As I understand it, yes.
The commlink's built-in display could still show you the ARO's, but it'd kind of be like walking down the street, reading data off your PDA to help interpret the signs on the buildings and streets. You could do it, but you might get some funny looks...
-paws
Posted by: PlatonicPimp Jun 5 2008, 07:23 PM
Simsense can also provide the visual overlay, but it opens your entire brain up to the matrix. This may be a bad thing, especially in spam zones. So you don't need a visual display, but it's safer.
Posted by: Synner667 Jun 5 2008, 07:43 PM
That's pretty much how I've always done it.
Does kinda make CommLinks a bit rubbish to use, tho...
...I mean, just how much info could you get on a 2-3" screen ??
And if you don't have it in your hand, would you just switch it to silent because it keeps trying to get your attention [like using Bluetooth in a place where everyone else also have active Bluetooth, would you just ignore it after a while] ??
Posted by: Jaid Jun 5 2008, 07:57 PM
iirc, stock commlinks have a built-in holoprojector. i assume that said holoprojector is used to generate a screen larger than 2-3 inches in size 
(i also assume that it could be used to create a pretty nifty 'control panel' type thing, that you could use to operate your commlink if you so desired)
Posted by: paws2sky Jun 5 2008, 08:08 PM
I describe stock commlinks as uber PDAs of doom.
Their screen, though small, is deceptively useful thanks to holo technology. Its not that there's a full-blown holo projector, but the screen does a bunch of neat visual tricks (like a 3d, multilayer desktop) to allow you to have a much larger amount of data available than a conventional/traditional screen. Image links are the next step up and provide a much larger 'desktop' environment.
You can control the commlink using the built-in mini-keypad, a wireless stylus, or with a wireless mouse-like device. If you want anything more interactive, you need to upgrade with AR gloves or sim module and trodes.
From what I can tell, a Sim Module and Trodes/Datajack eliminate the need for any sort of interface device. However, it does leave your brain meat vulnerable to malicious simsense, emotive simsense spam, and so on.
This is mostly my interpretation, of course.
-paws
Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 5 2008, 08:27 PM
and not far off from how i see it either...
intel did a keynote speech maybe 6 months ago where they showed off a system that could translate a street sign from chinese to english by filming the sign using the device's built in camera (mind you, they had some full size computers standing behind the scene that did the heavy lifting). in SR, that same street sign would probably have a rfid attached so that the comlink would id it based on the direction it got pointed and the gps data attached to the data transmitted by the rfid.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 5 2008, 08:32 PM
...which for the Short One is a good thing (Simsense Vertigo NQ).
Posted by: Synner667 Jun 5 2008, 08:34 PM
Their screen, though small, is deceptively useful thanks to holo technology. Its not that there's a full-blown holo projector, but the screen does a bunch of neat visual tricks (like a 3d, multilayer desktop) to allow you to have a much larger amount of data available than a conventional/traditional screen. Image links are the next step up and provide a much larger 'desktop' environment.
You can control the commlink using the built-in mini-keypad, a wireless stylus, or with a wireless mouse-like device. If you want anything more interactive, you need to upgrade with AR gloves or sim module and trodes.
From what I can tell, a Sim Module and Trodes/Datajack eliminate the need for any sort of interface device. However, it does leave your brain meat vulnerable to malicious simsense, emotive simsense spam, and so on.
This is mostly my interpretation, of course.
-paws
Uber-PDA sounds about right and i agree with your description.
I do think that "Neat visual tricks" is just wishful thinking that in the next 60 years they can physically fit more on a screen than can physically fit on a screen - like the laws of physics are immutable, there's only so much room on a screen...
...Not least because things have to be big enough to be usable.
A hologenerator probably won't do much than "extend" or magnify the screen, but if it's not solid looking it won't be much use as a display [it is, after all, just light and won't fare well in sunshine].
As for Sim Modules...
...They override your motor functions to stop your body thrashing about - not really much use for AR in the middle of the street !!
Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 5 2008, 08:37 PM
...They override your motor functions to stop your body thrashing about - not really much use for AR in the middle of the street !!
that specifically only apply in full VR...
Posted by: paws2sky Jun 5 2008, 08:45 PM
Agreed.
For reference, see: Simsense Vertigo negative quality. It applies to smartlinks.
See also, the shadowtalk in FoF regarding the Smartlink II. One talker describes it as "feeling more responsive," presumably because simsense technology is used to convey the smartlink data.
Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 5 2008, 08:48 PM
heh, im not sure about dragging SR1 books (or was it SR2?) into this
Posted by: paws2sky Jun 5 2008, 08:55 PM
SR2, iirc. *shrug*
I don't imagine the basis of the technology has changed that much in 15 or 16 years. What user sees has changed though, thanks to the AR boom.
Still, the Simsense Vertigo NQ example stands, I think.
Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 5 2008, 08:58 PM
yep, the vertigo stands.
Posted by: Jimson Jun 5 2008, 09:06 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. It was all helpful. I've only ran a few sessions and I want to make sure my PC's have the proper equipment to do the things they want their characters to do (i.e. interact with AR)
Posted by: Synner667 Jun 5 2008, 09:32 PM
>shrug<
I'm just referencing the comment above ['From what I can tell, a Sim Module and Trodes/Datajack eliminate the need for any sort of interface device. However, it does leave your brain meat vulnerable to malicious simsense, emotive simsense spam, and so on.'] and what it says in my copy of the S~R 4 rulebook...
[pg 318] "The sim module is an ASIST interface that controls the simsense experience. It translates computer signals [simsense data] into neural signals, allowing the user to directly experience simsense programs and virtual reality. A simsense module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface."
"As a safety feature sim mods override your motor functions while fully immersed in VR/simsense, so that you don't blindly thrash around in the real world."
...And...
[pg] 209] "The easiest and most common way to get your AR fix, though, is through simsense. You need a sim module for your commlink to interpret the signals and feed you the data via cyberware simrig, worn simrig, trode set or datajack"
I still hold that using a simrig, so you're not looking at your screen all the time, involves using gear that will make you fall over !!
And, as far as I can see, I'm not sure how the Negative Quality: Simsense Vertigo applies to stopping your body thrashing about ??
Posted by: Fortune Jun 5 2008, 11:25 PM
Note the bit that say "while fully immersed in VR". While using simsense module in AR, you can move about just fine.
The Negative Quality applies a penalty to all actions when using simsense. Actions such as shooting a gun with a Smartlink, which would not be possible if your interpretation of all simsense use was correct, since the over-ride you describe would not allow you to move your arm to aim the gun.
Also note that a SimRig and a Simsense Module are two different things.
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