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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ House rule concept, give me a hand
Posted by: MatrixJargon Jun 7 2008, 05:55 PM
Hey guys, I was thinking about making a new house rule for our upcoming fourth campaign and I need some critique and idea on it, right now it's only a concept. It's what I call the "fluff rule" and it's used to encourage role play amongst our group.
Every time a player going out of his way to role play or spend money on a character element (Such as going to the stuffer shack, setting up a sniper point in the most expensive hotel in Seattle, or eating in an expensive restaurant while shadowing somebody) I will increase their fluff. Variants to how much fluff you get depends on how well you roleplay it, what detail you go in to, how much you spend, and how well it's overall pulled off. Timing and making sure it doesn't subtract from the total session is also a bonus. What's you get so much fluff you can exchange it for street cred, I might also add it in so you can exchange it for karma or nuyen.
Now, here's where i'm stuck. The numbers. How much should fluff should you get for what action, how much fluff should the exchange cost, and etc etc. What does anybody think of the house rule, what tweaks need to be done before I finish working on it.
Posted by: WeaverMount Jun 7 2008, 06:21 PM
My table gets what you are after here with little vignettes of downtime. I really like this because method. My character is pretty fleshed out in my head, but when the pressure is on (like 90% of time we play out at the table) he act as a like a stone cold pro. The opportunity to explore and share what my character is like from a first person vantage is really nice. On top of that I personally find it difficult to RP a tradition as more than an cultural stereotype combined with glossary. Bits of fiction allow you talk about things you are never going to say on a run. As an added plus it never detracts from pacing.
Posted by: Zaranthan Jun 7 2008, 07:26 PM
I enjoy play-by-post for this exact reason. You can describe an action quickly, then put up a paragraph of psychodrama that would ruin a tabletop experience.
As for your system, just pick some numbers out of the sky and see if they fit your idea of how this "should" work. First, decide what scale of numbers you want to deal with. Do you want ten to be a lot (like dicepools)? Average range in the teens to thirties (like karma)? Do you want to be able to chip somebody a hundred Fluff without impacting their advancement much (like nuyen)? Once you pick a range, assigning values and costs should be vastly easier, as your brain has a rubric to work with.
Posted by: Aaron Jun 7 2008, 08:46 PM
Wow. A house rule I actually like. Nice.
If it was me, I'd abstract it, so that you're not really dealing with a lot of numbers. A character might get one "fluff" per session for "adding to the richness of the game." Then I'd let them spend it on abstract things, like Edge pool refreshes, or maybe the ability to start a subplot.
Posted by: MatrixJargon Jun 7 2008, 09:34 PM
Hey, thanks for the support Aaron. I took Zaranthan's suggestion and pulled some numbers out of the air, I want to see how you guys think about it.
Points given are decided by GM but are recommended at no more than 5 fluff points per any activity.
Ten fluff points can buy either 1 karma or 5,000 nuyen.
Twenty fluff points can be used to increase street cred.
Twenty-Five fluff points will buy you your own side story session. A session revolving around your character and his advancement.
Does that seem fair? Too little? Too much?
Posted by: Aaron Jun 7 2008, 10:30 PM
I wouldn't give tangible in-game advantages. I mean, the idea is to support player behavior, not character behavior, ne? The character's actions are what garners Karma, cash, Street Cred, etc., is it not?
I'd stick with meta-game elements, like Edge point returns, subplots, drama, and the like.
Posted by: MatrixJargon Jun 7 2008, 11:23 PM
I'd stick with meta-game elements, like Edge point returns, subplots, drama, and the like.
Hmmm, i'll consider ditching the nuyen and karma reward, but i'm keeping the street cred reward. Instead of karma i'll offer edge points and i'll keep the "side session story". Maybe i'll do something like every ten fluff something relevant to your story happens, how does that sound? Lets look at the new table then.
Fluff Reward Table:
+1 for role play actions
+1 for being willing to spend nuyen for character fluff(+2 for a really extravagant expense)
+1 for roleplaying it out well
-1 for delaying the session
+2 if the player manages to stay in character and the fluff adds to the plot or keeps the game going in an interesting way.
No more than five fluff can be awarded in a single session
Fluff spend table:
Ten Fluff: Something story relevant happens to the character(Automatic, no cost)
Fifteen Fluff: One edge
Twenty Fluff: Street Cred increase
Twenty Five Fluff: Character gets his own arc(One time only)
Posted by: shuya Jun 7 2008, 11:51 PM
no offense, but it think this is really dumb.
if you reward roleplaying with "in-game" benefits then you're just going to create a new type of powergamer/munchkin; there are ALWAYS going to be people who will do anything they can to make their character better. roleplaying should be done for roleplaying's sake; "virtue is its own reward" and all that jazz
Posted by: Alex Jun 8 2008, 12:46 AM
if you reward roleplaying with "in-game" benefits then you're just going to create a new type of powergamer/munchkin; there are ALWAYS going to be people who will do anything they can to make their character better. roleplaying should be done for roleplaying's sake; "virtue is its own reward" and all that jazz
As always, you are entitled to your own opinion. However, I believe the OP was trying to encourage RP at his table. I know that when my wife plays she needs help with the role playing part of the game as she doesn't want to seem, or even feel, "silly". Letting her have a tangible reward would help. The rest of the group does RP for its own reward and while they don't need the extra incentive, it can't hurt the game if everyone is trying to stay in character.
Posted by: WeaverMount Jun 8 2008, 01:16 AM
@shuya, by and large I would agree. The specific thing I see here is getting PCs to spend money on creating RP opportunities. To that end I could see a house rule where you formalize the benifit of entertaining, schmoozing, and wooing (Be it organizing a block party on a gangs turf, drone over watch for a squatter community, wine-n-dinning a salary man, or gifting an arm dealer with a 1911 from 1911). As a suggestion for a formal benifit I could see counting time/money spent on such an event adding to an imaginary tab. You do over watch for the squatter commune and they will hook you up hydro you can use to lower your lifestyle. Throw a smash party on Ancient turf and they will let you armory for ammo. For the kicker though I would let an "outstanding balance" count as bonus loyalty. Maybe +1 for a whole lifestyle, +2 for 3 months, +3 for 9 months?
The other thing I could see is that if the players write a vignettes for downtime you let them buy hits at 3 to 1 rather than 4 to 1. If it really blows you way let them spend a point of edge.
About the sub plots thing, I would never ever "charge" a PC for creating plot. My best RP experiances have come from PCs reacting in rich ways to the setting and GM using that to spring board back into whatever they had planned, but with the characters and players extra invested.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 01:51 AM
I'd rather reward the player characters with stuff like new (or upgraded) Contacts for something like good roleplaying.
Posted by: WeaverMount Jun 8 2008, 01:55 AM
Totally, but the OP felt like his table for benifit from the overhead of a formal house house, so I through something out there.
Posted by: MatrixJargon Jun 8 2008, 01:55 AM
The other thing I could see is that if the players write a vignettes for downtime you let them buy hits at 3 to 1 rather than 4 to 1. If it really blows you way let them spend a point of edge.
About the sub plots thing, I would never ever "charge" a PC for creating plot. My best RP experiances have come from PCs reacting in rich ways to the setting and GM using that to spring board back into whatever they had planned, but with the characters and players extra invested.
Well the cost for their own plot is basically an entire session that would be devoted to building their story, but I see what you mean. I'm wondering if I should leave the karma/money exchange in or take it out. I'd really like to see some suggested bonuses. The ten karma cost for something "relevant to their plot" happening is more like an old friend meeting up with them or something that you'd really think would happen to runners more often then it does in most campaigns.
As for the naysayer(s), I have to disagree. There needs to be some sort of minor reward for some of the rp opportunities that most groups miss because they don't want want to cough up 50 nuyen for the best resteraunt they can find. I want to encourage role play that build on character and lets people go just a little out of their way to express their characters personality.
Posted by: MatrixJargon Jun 8 2008, 01:56 AM
Ironically, this was my original idea. Players who stand out rp wise get calls and form better relationships with their contacts.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 02:07 AM
That has always seemed to work well for me.
Oh, and by the way, welcome to Dumpshock. 
Posted by: WeaverMount Jun 8 2008, 02:07 AM
I would totally axe the idea of quid pro quo money or karma for RP. Jumping though OOC hoops should never get you IC rewards(tiny aside, the exception I've seen to this is at char gen in games with huge character turnover). If your players can't get behind RP creating the opportunities for money and karma... your likely not going to get much out of them.
Another idea, if the amounts of money you want them to spend are that small, just get really generous with what you let lifestyle cover. If your players insist on living like squatters then peg payment to life style. Bums get payed like bumbs and ballers get payed like ballers.
Posted by: MatrixJargon Jun 8 2008, 02:11 AM
Oh, and by the way, welcome to Dumpshock.
Heh, i've been here for awhile, just new username
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 02:18 AM
Ah well ... reflex action. Since I probably didn't extend the greeting when you first appeared though, it's still a valid welcome. 
Posted by: Muspellsheimr Jun 8 2008, 02:28 AM
Karma - Situation
1 or 2 - Good roleplaying
And as was already brought up, Contact increases is another viable option.
Posted by: crash_00 Jun 8 2008, 02:50 AM
Roleplaying should, imo, be rewarded as Karma. I don't think it should be added as nuyen ever, as that just gets silly. I'm guessing your group is having a hard time RPing if you're trying to get actual rules for it. If that's the case, then keep the fluff idea and and just add karma after every so many fluff as their RPing karma.
I don't play 4th, so I don't know about Edge, but as usual RPing should always affect how contacts and NPCs relate to the character.
I would like to add though, that if your group doesn't enjoy the RPing part of the game, then you may want to look into another game or at least different play style.
Posted by: ElFenrir Jun 8 2008, 03:25 AM
I like the idea, myself. Gives incentive, gives a reward, it can make things fun, and fun is the most important thing.
I personally would go a little heavier on things like karma, contacts, or street cred than nuyen; but all in all, I think it's a solid idea.
Posted by: MatrixJargon Jun 8 2008, 06:25 PM
Thanks, that was the idea. There needs to be something that really encourages everybody to role play, to use their money in out of the way fashions and encourage character growth. That's my overall goal.
On a separate note, I FINALLY got Augmentations. And all I can say is:
What was with all the fuss over the penile implant? Sure maybe it doesn't belong in the book but it was like half a paragraph. I mean gawl.
Posted by: Faelan Jun 8 2008, 06:39 PM
Of course you can always allow roleplaying to increase the chance of success on skill tests by adding dice. If the player describes in detail what they are doing they have a better chance of success than if they simply say I use skill x or y they get to use whatever the base would normally be.
Posted by: crash_00 Jun 8 2008, 07:23 PM
The Serenity RPG has a plot point system that works similar I believe, it might help give some insight if you look at it.
Posted by: Synner667 Jun 8 2008, 11:53 PM
Toughie.
Technically, all RPGs give bonus points for roleplaying...
...So that's already covered, but I do find it unsatisfying.
I've had several Players talk to me, complaining that they put the effort in and don't seem to be getting any rewards for it...
...Character points not really reflecting their behaviour.
I give single-use bonuses to Players that describe in-character activity when their Character does something [talking to contacts, opening locks, etc] and try to 'reward' a Character things they can't buy - loyalty from contacts, reputation, etc.
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