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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Restoring a Soul from Bug Possession
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 8 2008, 12:19 AM
So, one of my characters last night attempted something awesome and terrifying: he created an Inhabitation Ally Spirit formula based on the Name of a recently deceased runner mage named Melody and Quested for that Name deep within the Metaplanes of Man.
Well, not precisely a deceased runner. In fact, this was a female Mantis spirit that had been masquerading under everyone's nose for the past 6 months by wearing a brand new Edgar (er, Melody) suit.
So, our shaman and another mage corner Melody, perform a high-powered Banishing ritual on the bug spirit, and then immediately used her now-empty body as a ritual link to begin a deep Quest into the Metaplane of Man for her original spirit, spending sufficient Karma to bring back an Ally Spirit with abilities roughly equivalent to the old Melody.
They have no idea if it worked. Actually, I have no idea if it worked. And it's kind of irrelevant whether it worked or not. They definitely did one of three things, though:
1. Summoned Melody's original soul back into her body, reconnected it slightly "weirdly", and permanently bound it to our Shaman as an Ally Spirit
2. Summoned someone else's original soul back into her body, reconnected it slightly "weirdly", and permanently bound it to our Shaman as an Ally Spirit
3. Summoned a "plain" Ally Spirit from the Metaplane of Man, using Melody's body as the Inhabitation target.
The cool and terrifying part of all this, is that there is no way to tell which of these three things happened. In all three cases, the new Melody has every single one of Melody's old memories and personality quirks, has a few new "perks" as a result of being pulled through from the Great Beyond (including Immunity to Age and Immunity to Normal Weapons), and is supernaturally loyal to our Shaman.
I just had to share.
Posted by: WeaverMount Jun 8 2008, 01:32 AM
I know you are big on thinking of spirits of man as ghosts. If that works at your table have fun. If you want answers that have anything to do with cannon though option 3 is the only option.
Personally I think any thing that erodes the finality of death is a bad thing for SR and wreaks of cancer.
Posted by: CanRay Jun 8 2008, 01:39 AM
Oh, something will inhabit the body... And it might be much, much worse than a simple Insect Spirit...
Horrors beyond metahuman ken lie beyond the pale, and it is not meant for souls to return to the land of the living when they have tasted their eternal reward...
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jun 8 2008, 01:46 AM
Right, official stuff, mainly penned by Nigel Findley, all said when the bug moves in the human is gone beyond redemption. In his novel House of the Sun getting his sister back was the price he required for working with the bugs and they agreed but in the end, they told him it couldn't be done.
I like the idea that he, the mage, worked it out in so much detail, but the bottom line, as canray said, is you'renot sure what comes to play, even though it says it's melody. Think of it this way, you leave a 'meet me' note at the bar, but you don't know for sure who's going to see it and show up.
Once, before i was married, I was waiting at a bar for a friend when a guy came up and asked if I was "Molly"
'No'
"Would you like to be?" He was meeting a blind date and at risk of being stood up . If I'd wanted to lie I could have said 'Sure" and probably had a nice date. But i wouldn't be Molly.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 02:01 AM
Do you think it is beyond the realms of possibility that the Bugs lied?
Posted by: CanRay Jun 8 2008, 02:05 AM
Certainly possible that the bugs lied. But, from the way everything else works in Shadowrun, it's probably the truth.
After all, it's often the harshest thing to give.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jun 8 2008, 02:05 AM
No, but it further supported what he wrote as narrator in Missing Blood.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 02:16 AM
Which is still fluff (which may be true or not true, in a similar manner to all other fluff and shadowtalk in Shadowrun), and not actual hard-and-fast rules on the subject.
Posted by: CanRay Jun 8 2008, 02:24 AM
Yeah, but this is Shadowrun. Dead is dead. Try to break that, and you're lucky if you only end up dealing with something similar to "Full Metal Alchimist".
Posted by: kanislatrans Jun 8 2008, 02:36 AM
Why do i see a maniacal child with a scalpel?
"Even if the right soul came back, the trauma of returning tends to fracture the personality that is dragged back. Which is why when we reincarnate the past persona is wiped clean and only trace memories are carried into the new life. The "Unbeing" that occurs at death is quite terrifying to some poor souls." - Morvain Calweather, 13th grade initiate in the Golden Dawn Tradition, at a speaking engagement at MITandT.
Posted by: KCKitsune Jun 8 2008, 02:41 AM
I say allow a dead spirit to come back. It's not like D&D where it's just a simple spell and *BLAMO* the person is back from the dead. If the runners went through a whole lot of drek then they should be rewarded.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jun 8 2008, 02:41 AM
WRONG, Missing Blood P.37 :
"If the shadowrunners wipe out the bugs and open the sacks, they will find one man and two women, one of them obviously Victoria, all in different stages of metamorphosis...She does not react to the characters and seems almost dead. There is nothing the characters can do for her. Let them try magic and what-not, making all the rolls and so on, but she is as good as dead."
This is not the shadow talk fluff. This is the module as written by Findley and approved by FASA, who held the rights then.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 8 2008, 02:54 AM
One important question here isn't being asked. Was it possible to Journey to Life a Invae host back into existence?
If yes, then the technique is plausible, though highly unlikely due to the fact that the Grim Reaper is apparently free to do its job again. If no, then it ain't plausible at all.
The actual dispensation of Melody is a question for philosophers to answer, not a GM. It should be vague, mysterious, and questionable. Doubts should linger.
Posted by: Mercer Jun 8 2008, 03:01 AM
I agree with hyz and I agree with the OP. Nobody really knows is always in canon.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 03:06 AM
You don't need to treat me like I am stupid.
That's not really what I would call writing as a 'narrator', a word I associate more with storytelling than with technical writing (which is more appropriate for describing the rules). With your use of that word, I thought you were discussing the flavor parts of the text.
Be that as it may, the text you quoted does not make any blanket statements whatsoever about Insect Spirit victims being unrecoverable. It merely discusses the three particular victims in that specific situation. Even more, it technically only states that one of the victims is unrecoveable. It doesn't actually mention anything about the other two victims being totally beyond help.
Posted by: CanRay Jun 8 2008, 03:10 AM
Well, as always, GMs discression.
For my group, the only spirit world my PCs will ever come back from involves a bottle.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 03:15 AM
Note that at no time did I ever state that 'coming back' was in any way possible. I merely asked a question about the Bugs possibly lying, and then answered the responses. 
Posted by: Zhan Shi Jun 8 2008, 03:20 AM
I don't know about hard core rules. But there was a Shadowrun novel...can't remember the title, but the main character was a former mage of Assets, Inc., who broke away from them to form his own 'runner crew in Boston. After an encounter with the spirit crime lord who lived in the sewers, Mama something-or-other, he went on an astral quest to hell to speak to an old friend/mentor. As I recall, the story implied that this was the true spirit of his friend, not just a simulacrum. I don't remember if he brought the spirit back, though.
Posted by: Zaranthan Jun 8 2008, 04:01 AM
Visiting the dead is a legitimate purpose for metaplanar travel. Bringing them back with you is an entirely different can of worms.
Honestly, given that SR is supposed to be gritty, resurrection should be a truly epic adventure, on the level with toppling a dragon or a member of the Corporate Court. It's never happened in recorded history. If it was just a trip to the plane of death, somebody would've pulled it off by now.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 8 2008, 04:04 AM
There is a particularly relevant episode of GITS:SAC in which an obsessed ex-lover copies a government agent's body, personality, and memories and fights him to the death. No one knows if the original won or if the impostor won (except audience members who paid attention to wound locations and angles) and none of his co-workers particularly cared. Metaphysics aside, she's be close enough for government work.
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 8 2008, 04:16 AM
Well, as I said, I'm not ruling one way or another what "officially" happened. He's got a new Force 6 Ally Spirit bound to him, which happens to have all the old memories, Attributes and Skills of an old runner. He paid the Karma for the Ally Spirit, I'm using all the official Inhabitation rules, and I'm not stating one way or another whether it's the old person back or not. Either way, it's someone with Immunity to Normal Weapons and Immunity to Age, and it's someone with six months' worth of memories of being a bug spirit, so it's not like they're the same person they were to begin with in any case.
Posted by: kanislatrans Jun 8 2008, 04:34 AM
It sounds cool. If you were truly evil you could just every so often have the spirit do something just a little "out of character". Something to keep the character thinking" Thats strange, Ive never known Melody to act that way"
paranoia can be a good thing!
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jun 8 2008, 06:36 AM
I think it important to note that just because something was not possible using magic in 2050, does not mean that it is not possible in 2070. Magic has advanced a lot in that time period, especially as relates to Insect spirits. Remember that their magic has been advancing as well. In 2050 they produced a good merge only rarely, and even then only by mistake. In 2072 many insect groups can make flesh forms on demand.
That being said, from a metaphysical standpoint any time you create a new pattern it's a new person. Anyone who dies, even someone who "dies" and is thence brought into a new semblance of life with conjuring is going to have been at the very least repatterned. In such an instance, one can expect to find that the universe doesn't really want to acknowledge you. Crack open Augmentation for some ideas on how to screw with people along those lines (p. 157 and p. 147).
From an interpersonal standpoint though: does it really matter? If the "new" creature looks like their friend, and talks like their friend, and remembers the things that their friend would have remembered, what difference does it make? If she passes the Turing Test for being herself, why would you care about the fact that she has a completely different spiritual essence?
-Frank
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 8 2008, 06:38 AM
That being said, from a metaphysical standpoint any time you create a new pattern it's a new person. Anyone who dies, even someone who "dies" and is thence brought into a new semblance of life with conjuring is going to have been at the very least repatterned. In such an instance, one can expect to find that the universe doesn't really want to acknowledge you. Crack open Augmentation for some ideas on how to screw with people along those lines (p. 157 and p. 147).
From an interpersonal standpoint though: does it really matter? If the "new" creature looks like their friend, and talks like their friend, and remembers the things that their friend would have remembered, what difference does it make? If she passes the Turing Test for being herself, why would you care about the fact that she has a completely different spiritual essence?
-Frank
Hrm. I've thought a lot along these lines myself, but here's one possible [metaphorical] counter:
Would you feel the same handing your characters off to be played by someone else as you would playing them yourself? If so, why bother playing at all? Why not create characters and then hand them to other people, and not bother with the 3-4+ hours a week spent actually RPing?
Sure, it's the same stats, the same skills, the same memories and experiences - but is it the same 'I' experiencing them?
Posted by: AngelisStorm Jun 8 2008, 07:42 AM
If the robot responds exactly like your friend, sounds like your friend, and is programmed to give all the same/right answers, same as your friend, then why does it matter that it's simply a really good AI, and not really your friend at all?
It doesn't matter. Unless the principle of the matter, matters to you.
I think this thread is super cool, btw. While I don't play all or even most spirits of man as ghosts, I do often go that direction. Whether they really are the person or not, I never let on. (Faith.)
I just think it's a cool idea. Are you letting the player of the deceased Shadowrunner play the newly revived character? (Plus added loyalty motivation.)
Posted by: Mordinvan Jun 8 2008, 07:58 AM
I'm just curious, I was wondering if this would work as a resurrection method myself. "IF" the characters actual soul could be found, and bound via an ally spirit formula, what would stop it from being bound back to its original body? Or is the idea that the soul can't be found because a) it never existed to begin with, or b) actually died when the character did?
Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 8 2008, 08:39 AM
In Earthdawn, several resurrection methods worked but they only worked because the anthropomorphic personification of Death was imprisoned under the Black Sea. Death, obviously, isn't imprisoned there anymore. And, unlike the Passions, she is still widely known across all cultures of the Earth, meaning that she probably hasn't been weakened during the downcycle.
I imagine that Death would make every effort to stop any magical resurrection from being successful.
Posted by: raggedhalo Jun 8 2008, 11:55 AM
Inhabitation power, pg. 100, Street Magic:
"If the vessel inhabited by the spirit was living, the spirit gains complete control over the body and some access to its memories. During merging, the vessel's original spirit is consumed and for all intents and purposes that character is essentially lost (though, as always, gamemasters may decide otherwise if appropriate to their stories)." (emphasis mine)
Limts of Sorcery, pg. 160, Street Magic:
"Sorcery Cannot Raise The Dead
Though spells can heal, once a person has passed away, they are gone forever (though some view conjuring spirits as raising the spirits of the dead)."
Now, personally, I would never take any option other than 3 as a GM; and actually, I don't like that the Ally Spirit has the old character's memories one bit. But it seems entirely within the rules, if not in keeping with the spirit of Shadowrun more generally, to do Options 1 or 2. I would say that it should depend on the summoner's tradition, though: only black magicians and traditional/hedge witches see spirits as being the souls of the dead, and actually only traditional/hedge witches' write-up mentions it.
Posted by: Zak Jun 8 2008, 11:58 AM
Going somewhat off topic:
The body of the newly created Ally is part of the ally formula, what happens in case the hostbody gets destroyed?
Let's assume it was a perfect flesh form for this line of thought.
Is it simply enough to adjust the formula to summon the ally again, or are you screwed forever?
Does the ally spirit get to keep all the former hosts skills, even when thrown into a new body?
Posted by: ornot Jun 8 2008, 12:23 PM
My immediate instinct is to go with option 3 as being the actual truth, but as the OP said, it will never become clear in game so it doesn't really matter. I am curious as to whether the original player is actually playing the character or not.
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 8 2008, 04:05 PM
Nope, it's still an NPC.
Posted by: WeaverMount Jun 8 2008, 06:16 PM
Ok there is actually one way you could tell. IMO spirits are spirits and they don't have any earthly knowledge or form not informed by the conjurror or the nature of magic. If that is true, a hedge witch could conjure a "ghost" that look and acted how the witch thinks they would act as a ghost. Here is the rub, The spirit doesn't have any information the summoner does not. So "Melody" would know question the summoner could think to ask and the answer would always be what they thought it should be, but just be a construct via Solaris. It's likely that the conjurer couldn't supply knowledge of Melody's family, old friend, especially secure keys, stashes, and safe houses. I like this option because for you as a GM it means you have a quick and easy way to decide where the memory wholes are. Also if you players are really on there game they can actually detect a pattern. I think figuring that out would be really rewarding as a player.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jun 8 2008, 06:50 PM
That having been said I'm well aware there are conflicting reports of bug powers in differnt modules that can be acscribed to 'differences in magic' if you want to be charitable in place of the more accurate-loose editing.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 8 2008, 07:34 PM
They have Melody's still living body, so the inhabitating spirit will have all of her memories.
The fact that they do have it is a violation of the rules, however, as an Inhabiting spirit can only be disrupted if the host is killed.
Posted by: Daier Mune Jun 8 2008, 07:43 PM
this is a great thread. it sounds a lot like the cybermancy procedures. a lot like it. i think that the similarities between the original Melody and the new Melody would be enough to convince those around her that she was the real Melody and not an impostor. any behavioral oddities would probably be shrugged off as long-standing trauma from being inhabited/dead.
as for Melody herself, i think it'd be more complicated. as she herself is a mage, i'm sure she's aware of that the Laws of Magic state, and a cursory investigation into metaplanar quests and the spirit realms will turn up the fact that no one knows where the spirit goes at death, and theres no way to verify that spirits brought back from the great beyond are the real deal.
the inability to prove to herself that she is indeed the real Melody will rest in the back of her mind like a sharp stone stuck in your shoe. yes, she has access to all of Melody's memories (and the bug spirit's memory, which is terrifying enough) but there is no way for her to know if those are her memories or not. every time she passes a mirror she'll never know if its her face looking back at her.
over the years the feelings confusion and paranoia will build upon each other, threatening to eat away at her mind.
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 8 2008, 08:04 PM
The fact that they do have it is a violation of the rules, however, as an Inhabiting spirit can only be disrupted if the host is killed.
There are other ways, but most of them require that the spirit willingly ditch the body.
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jun 8 2008, 08:22 PM
Uh... I actually wrote the inhabitation rules, and I'm pretty sure spirits can't ditch the body.
[Looks at Street Magic]
Yep.
I recalled myself being pretty clear on that point, and looking back on it, it seems that I was.
-Frank
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 8 2008, 08:28 PM
[Looks at Street Magic]
Yep.
I recalled myself being pretty clear on that point, and looking back on it, it seems that I was.
-Frank
Aha. Sorry 'bout that. Hrm. *thinks* I'll have to figure out some excuse for why it worked, then.
Posted by: Apathy Jun 8 2008, 08:34 PM
So what happens when an inhabiting spirit is hit with a successful banishing test? What happens when they fill all their available stun track?
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jun 8 2008, 08:49 PM
Nothing. You can only use Banishing to cast out a possessing spirit. The attempt literally can't do anything to an inhabiting spirit.
Same thing that happens to a possessing spirit: they pass out. Then they lie there being unconscious. Eventually they wake up again.
-Frank
Posted by: WeaverMount Jun 8 2008, 08:49 PM
The fact that they do have it is a violation of the rules, however, as an Inhabiting spirit can only be disrupted if the host is killed.
I missed that. I was assuming that the body was dead because the spirit left, and my understanding of brain damage from (death induced) asphyxiation lead me to believe memories would degrade past recovery well be for they could get a spirit back in the body
Posted by: Johnny Jacks Jun 8 2008, 09:16 PM
Out of curiosity, how dead would she have to be? I mean... could they just find a way to stop her heart, wait for the spirit to leave, and then resuscitate the body? That'd be pretty easy even with today's medical technology.
Posted by: Mordinvan Jun 8 2008, 10:34 PM
[Looks at Street Magic]
Yep.
I recalled myself being pretty clear on that point, and looking back on it, it seems that I was.
-Frank
You could could shoot the body in the heart to 'kill' it.
Then have a great plant spirit possess it to repair the damage, and then find X person's spirit to 'inhabit' it.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 11:13 PM
Interesting. I asked a question about the possibility of Bugs lying. I wasn't even rude in the process of doing so. Are you telling me that you equate asking a question with treating you as if you are stupid?
Yes he did. Note that I never commented on any of that writing, but merely on the quote you provided. The quote you provided did not back up your earlier claim of canon stating that 'when the bug moves in the human is gone beyond redemption'. If you have a better quote, then maybe you should use that one instead.
Posted by: Jaid Jun 8 2008, 11:16 PM
"Sorcery Cannot Raise The Dead
Though spells can heal, once a person has passed away, they are gone forever (though some view conjuring spirits as raising the spirits of the dead)."
emphasis mine.
nothing says that magic cannot raise the dead, only that sorcery cannot. it's still up in the air.
on a side note, it is theoretically possible to have an ally spirit inhabit another spirit, if i'm not mistaken. (which could presumably add up to some rather silly things happening, though i haven't really checked to be certain).
as such, the simplest 'ret-con' is probably just to rule that they didn't actually banish the spirit, but that the banishing attempt instead acted like an attack of will that knocked out the insect spirit (apparently for an abnormally long time, since preparing a vessel takes minimum 1 day), which was then inhabited by the ally spirit.
Posted by: Jackstand Jun 8 2008, 11:24 PM
"Sorcery Cannot Raise The Dead-
Though spells can heal, once a person has passed away, they are gone forever (though some view conjuring spirits as raising the spirits of the dead)."
It does say that magic cannot raise the dead, though, along with everything else. Just because the sentence happens to be under a topic concerning sorcery doesn't mean that it doesn't apply to other things. Since sorcery is the route by which one would be most likely to attempt to create a means of ressurrection, the matter is addressed there.
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jun 8 2008, 11:26 PM
Where, exactly?
And, given the stated ED connection, stealing from Death is nothing new.
Posted by: Jackstand Jun 8 2008, 11:27 PM
I quoted it, exactly. Look up. It's the bold part.
Posted by: Fortune Jun 8 2008, 11:30 PM
No, the wording is quite specific. Similar wording for what amounts to basically the same disclaimer has been used throughout Shadowrun's history.
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jun 9 2008, 12:02 AM
Just there is nothing there that reads 'magic can't raise the dead'.
In fact, Cybermancy is build around that fine point.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 9 2008, 12:07 AM
Cybermancy doesn't raise the dead; it keeps people who should be dead alive. Nothing in SR canon can actually reverse death and it is unlikely that anything with that ability will ever be discovered due to the dact that the Black Sea isn't made of lava.
Posted by: cndblank Jun 9 2008, 12:26 AM
They captured their friend's body,banished the spirit, (OK so they had to use "Banishment Ritual", rather than normal banishment, to separate the body and the insect spirit), created the formula, paid the karma, and brought something back from the Metaplanes that is too close to tell back.
It is clear that the GM is applying the number one rule (no good deed goes unpunished).
It makes a great story.
On the Street Magic section that says no raising the dead. The section is called Limits of Sorcery. Not limits of Magic.
THE LIMITS OF SORCERY (CONT.)
Sorcery Cannot Raise the Dead
Though spells can heal, once a person has
passed away, they are gone forever (though
some view conjuring spirits as raising the spir-
its of the dead).
Even if we do substitute Magic for Sorcery and say Magic can not raise the dead.
Is that like the rule the one that say Sorcery can not teleport someone?
Cause unless it also says Unless they are an immortal elf. we have already seen one of those rules broken twice (Harlequin). 
Posted by: Jackstand Jun 9 2008, 12:40 AM
There are, of course, exceptions. Rules are made to be broken, especially by immortal elves.
Posted by: CanRay Jun 9 2008, 12:42 AM
Which, of course, typically involves a certain... Someone.
"Please allow me to introduce myself: I'm a man of weath, and taste."
Posted by: Jackstand Jun 9 2008, 12:51 AM
I'm generally of the opinion that the rules are there for the players, anyway, and that the GM should not feel bound by anything beyond sensibility.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 9 2008, 12:56 AM
"Please allow me to introduce myself: I'm a man of weath, and taste."
A fiddle contest, then?
Posted by: raggedhalo Jun 9 2008, 07:41 AM
Cos they just gave a shedload of karma to a Mantis spirit..? *grin*
Posted by: Fuchs Jun 9 2008, 12:05 PM
If Death can be imprisoned under a Sea of Fire, then I can't see why raising the dead should be impossible. The former seems much more "fantastic" (or "unbelievable") than the later.
Of course, I'd never let a concept of "Death was imprisoned under a Sea of Fire, so raise dead was possible during that time" even come close to have a shred of hope of influencing the rules and fluff of my Shadowrun campaign.
Posted by: CanRay Jun 9 2008, 12:20 PM
http://files.redvsblue.com/web/images/comic/20080607RT0284.jpg.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 9 2008, 12:52 PM
The fact that it was possible to raise the dead only because Death was imprisoned is the important part. With Death free, she could plausibly stop any resurrection attempt.
Posted by: Fuchs Jun 9 2008, 01:15 PM
And the important part for me is that if I accept that Death can be imprisoned, then accepting resurrection as possible is no problem for me.
Of course, I consider the idea of imprisoning Death as something that might be a good idea for a Sword and Sorcery/High Fantasy campaign, but that has absolutely no place, no way in hell, in my Shadowrun campaign.
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 9 2008, 06:23 PM
Well, one thought is, the bug spirits themselves don't exactly have to wait for the old spirit to leave before moving in - perhaps this is just a reversal of that process.
Posted by: Zaranthan Jun 9 2008, 07:09 PM
There's a big difference between "mostly dead" and "all dead." The bug doesn't leave until you're left with the option of rifling through his pockets searching for loose change.
Posted by: CanRay Jun 9 2008, 07:10 PM
"Let me just check for a pulse in his pockets..."
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jun 9 2008, 07:30 PM
..by binding their spirit to their body after they died (by dropping below 0), indeed.
Posted by: Jackstand Jun 9 2008, 10:13 PM
It's really more like binding their spirit to their body while they're dying.
Posted by: Mordinvan Jun 10 2008, 03:45 PM
While I'm inlinded to agree with many of the above individuals that the bug ate/destroyed the soul of the person it was inhabiting, I'm just currious about using a similar method to resurect characters who died more conventional deaths. Would such a method be plausable/possible? SR deliberately doesn't say that souls persist after death, and the fact projecting mages can die if someone moves their body on them would seem to indicate no 'eternal' soul is present. But if such a entity existed, would repairing the body and astral questing to find the soul and reattach it to the body be a 'functional' way of bringing the person back?
Posted by: Jackstand Jun 10 2008, 03:51 PM
That'd be up to your GM, and, depending on the 'soul,' you might have to convince it that it's a good idea to come back from 'heaven'-- Or, likely worse, forcibly remove it and imprison it in a body.
Posted by: Mordinvan Jun 10 2008, 03:53 PM
That would seriously depend on what the 'after life' was like.
But the process would likely involve an ally spirit esq. ritual to give it the inhabitation power so it COULD reenter its body.
Posted by: HentaiZonga Jun 10 2008, 06:14 PM
That depends. As long as you're okay with a definition of "back" that includes immunity to normal weapons, immunity to age, complete forced and unfailing loyalty to whoever brought you back, and an utter inability to ever gain Karma yourself, ever again, then sure.
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