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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Anyone watching Leverage?
Posted by: Nomad Dec 8 2008, 03:35 AM
Someone just had to be playing SR when they wrote the script for this.
Posted by: dog_xinu Dec 8 2008, 04:48 AM
I watched the preair that the sent the studios back in sept and it rocked. I was hoping for a fall release. well we got a christmas one which is better than never. it comes on Tuesdays and can't wait for next episode..
it screams shadowrun.
Posted by: KurenaiYami Dec 8 2008, 06:55 AM
I'm so very in love with this series already.
Posted by: AJCarrington Dec 8 2008, 06:08 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I was planning on trying to catch the first show last night, but got caught up in other stuff.
AJC
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 8 2008, 06:10 PM
i have been waiting for it since the pre-air showed up. been a while since a live actor tv-series got my interest.
Posted by: Drogos Dec 8 2008, 06:12 PM
I just wish it wasn't Tuesday. :grumble grumble: Other than that, yeah, it rocks!!
Posted by: BlackHat Dec 8 2008, 11:10 PM
Watched the preview episode today, and it earned itself a place on my DVR. 
Very Shadowrunny.
Posted by: Ed_209a Dec 9 2008, 01:22 AM
I just got up from watching this on my DVR, and all I can say is WOW!
...and that this series would truly be a great SR game. The characters even seem to come straight from the SR4 archtypes! Face, adept, hacker, ninja, even a Mr J!
I would play in that campaign
In. A. Nano.
And it never hurts to have Gina Bellman on the cast...
Posted by: Fortune Dec 9 2008, 01:35 AM
I've read a couple of things that make comparisons (not necessarily positive) to the A-Team. How close are these to being accurate?
Posted by: Ed_209a Dec 9 2008, 01:43 AM
Despite some similarity in the basic setup, Leverage strikes me as being _much_ better written.
Even after one episode, I like Leverage better than any A-Team ep I ever saw, and I saw a bunch of them in middle school.
Posted by: Fix-it Dec 9 2008, 03:05 AM
I just watched the first episode. I didn't like the ending. cheesy.
but then again, I have very high standards.
Posted by: Critias Dec 9 2008, 05:37 AM
It was alright.
I'm irritated at how the tough guy talks. Something about his voice just irks me.
Posted by: hyzmarca Dec 9 2008, 05:56 AM
I'm irritated at how the tough guy talks. Something about his voice just irks me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5AdpLfB_A
I was half expecting him to mention his evil hand issues throughout the episode.
Posted by: Alex Dec 9 2008, 08:16 AM
Just finished it myself. Did I mention I love DVR? Yes it is very shadowrun-esque.
A-Team? Maybe the end was a little in the A-Team vein in that they are planning on taking on cases where people can't help themselves.
I don't have any complaints with the show as a show.
My only complaint from the SR POV is that the show takes a much more human/goodguy vibe rather than the mercenary vibe.
All in all, 4 out of 5.
Posted by: Matsci Dec 10 2008, 05:34 AM
That is entirely possible. One of the writers, John Rodgers, is a huge nerd.
I wish that my players would watch this show. Then I wouldn't have to end everything with a giant bloodbath.
On the other hand, I don't want my runners making
32,761,349.05 off a run either.
Posted by: child of insanity Dec 10 2008, 10:08 AM
On the other hand, I don't want my runners making
32,761,349.05 off a run either.oh they can make that much, but how long do they get to keep it is an entirely different (and more fun/evil) question.
Posted by: crizh Dec 10 2008, 11:30 PM
Any opinions on Ep2 yet?
It's been a long, long wait but I think I really enjoyed it...
It's hard to tell when you wait so long for something. Misinterpret that how you will.
Posted by: Ed_209a Dec 11 2008, 04:09 PM
I liked Ep2, but I can tell that the series will definitely be more Pink Mohawk than Black Trenchcoat.
But that's OK. Not everything has to be a spiritual successor to Ronin.
Posted by: KurenaiYami Dec 11 2008, 06:38 PM
It's been a long, long wait but I think I really enjoyed it...
It's hard to tell when you wait so long for something. Misinterpret that how you will.
I liked it a great deal, and got my players to watch it as well. They loved it. Even started throwing down quotes:
"You can identify the gun just by the sound?"
"It has a very distinctive sound."
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 11 2008, 07:25 PM
sounds like a ares predator IV to me 
Posted by: masterofm Dec 11 2008, 07:35 PM
I was not really wowed by episode 2 the way I was about episode 1. I just hope it will be as cool as the first one. I also personally hope that they skim from the top of every job they pull as they didn't really seem to do that in episode 2. There were also some hokey moments that I didn't quite buy, like the media showing up out of nowhere, and the part where they were a lost couple in the middle of a shipping yard I didn't really buy either.
Maybe I'm being too critical, but I'll just sit back and enjoy the ride though. Episode 1 rocked though.
Posted by: ahammer Dec 11 2008, 07:40 PM
Maybe I'm being too critical, but I'll just sit back and enjoy the ride though. Episode 1 rocked though.
while I was thinking the same thing about the skiming.
dont think that lost couple was to bad they only need to belive it for a min or so.
and the media did not just show up they where called in from team.
Posted by: masterofm Dec 11 2008, 07:47 PM
I meant the acting job, the questions the reporters asked, and the fact that there were like 7 people who showed up. It seemed a bit forced and took me out of moment. It would have been a bit craftier if they think they got away with it and then sat down for the seven o'clock news to find out they got totally boned by the web-cam instead of whacking you over the head with it. I'm probably being to critical though, but I just felt it could have been done better and given a better feel to the episode itself. Nothing says subtle revenge like them realizing it was the wrong container, thinking they got away with it, going and sitting down for some coffee at a diner and realizing that their lives are totally over.
Posted by: ahammer Dec 11 2008, 07:51 PM
id say you right.. Id says one of the good part of that show was how that tryed to spin when the reporters show up.
Posted by: Mäx Dec 11 2008, 08:44 PM
did you miss the whole conversation in the end about the leader giveng his share away, mostly, he did buy himself a tesla.
Posted by: ahammer Dec 11 2008, 09:08 PM
realy I thoght that they were talking about the money from the 1st job.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 11 2008, 11:33 PM
i dont know why, but it seems i cant enjoy live action series any longer.
i recall enjoying the pre-air, but i find myself giving up on the episode after 5 min now.
somehow the humor of the show just makes me groan in pain...
Posted by: Arcblood Dec 11 2008, 11:49 PM
First episode made them all enough money to buy an island and retire. The money they are making on interest alone would pay for thier adventures. Also if you haven't been paying attention to the market the last 4 months, stock manipulation can make you tons of money and destroy people real quick. Thier colective skills alone means they can print money at anytime they need to.
Posted by: WeaverMount Dec 12 2008, 08:32 AM
A-Team is pink, leverage is back
Posted by: hyzmarca Dec 12 2008, 01:33 PM
Leverage is more Equalizer than A-Team, meaning mohawk in a 3-piece suit.
Posted by: Ed_209a Dec 12 2008, 02:41 PM
I took the 32 mil payoff in the pilot as a thematic way to take money/greed out of the plot equation.
The crooks aren't in the game for the money anymore, because they don't have to be. It is just for the thrill.
Robin Hooding can be just as thrilling as shooting people in the face for money.
Posted by: Fortune Dec 12 2008, 02:52 PM
But is there any actual shooting people in the face, money or no money?
Posted by: Malicant Dec 12 2008, 03:04 PM
Sometimes shooting people in the face is it's own reward.
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Dec 12 2008, 03:15 PM
Hooders have been a part of SR since first edition.
Posted by: Dashifen Dec 12 2008, 05:16 PM
I've been evangelizing Leverage to everyone I know since I watched the pilot. It warms a scabbed over calloused part of my soul, it does.
Posted by: Matsci Dec 12 2008, 05:19 PM
No shooting people in the face, but there is a lot of neck-punching and things exploding.
Posted by: MJBurrage Dec 12 2008, 07:01 PM
I liked the first episode very much. Definitely made me think of Shadowrun. My only (very small) nitpick was the overly large size of the stock shorting payout (it was five to ten times too big to be even quasi-realistic). I can let it go because I understand that few people have the financial background to understand that the team would have to have borrowed over half a billion dollars worth of stock to get the payout they did.
The second episode was also fun, but two things bothered me (more so than the pilot's payout). 1) The bad guys would never have believed the "lost tourist couple" in the middle of a shipping yard that big. 2) The very public way they gave the cash to the client, would cause tongues to wag, and lead trouble back to the client.
Having said all that, still better than much on TV, and I like Parker.
Posted by: hyzmarca Dec 12 2008, 07:30 PM
It is possible Alec was shorting naked, in which case they wouldn't have had to borrow any stocks. Worse case scenario, they fail to deliver a very large volume of naked shorted stocks and the SEC investigates the fake identity that Alec was trading under. Given his skill, this would just lead them to a metaphorical brick wall.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 12 2008, 08:11 PM
hmm, seems my taste in humor changes depending on my level of rest and other stuff.
still, this is one show that needs to be taken in measured doses...
Posted by: masterofm Dec 12 2008, 08:28 PM
Boo to the ditsy thief. Everyone else is cool.
Posted by: Fortune Dec 12 2008, 08:48 PM
Posted by: Caine Hazen Dec 13 2008, 01:28 AM
Thanks for the reminder... forgot to set this up on the DVR. All set now though!
Posted by: Dashifen Dec 15 2008, 04:33 AM
Boo to you, my good sir. Parker is clearly superior to the others. Unless, of course, you include Tim Hutton's character in the list, who is, in my humble opinion, made of awesome.
Posted by: Alex Dec 16 2008, 06:41 AM
I was finally able to sit down and watch the second episode tonight - love my DVR. Anyway, I enjoyed the episode immensely. I too was struck by how out of place the reports showing up at the container seemed. Sure, it's possible but compared to complete screw the guy in the first episode got, it was a little bit of a letdown. Nevertheless, I have high hopes for this series.
Posted by: hyzmarca Dec 16 2008, 06:53 AM
Reporters showing up at the container had the advantage of being unspinable and unburyable. The best they could do would be to kill all of the reporters, and their cameras probably had satellite uplinks that would make such violence counterproductive.
Posted by: nezumi Dec 16 2008, 05:00 PM
Thanks for turning me on to this show : ) Those of you without cable - it is on TNT's website (it requires installing a windows media player add-on).
Posted by: Xenefungus Jul 13 2010, 06:23 PM
So, by now we are already five episodes into season three. Anyone of you still watching? I think although some kind of...routine got established quite fast (i think still in season 1), it's still one of the better series on TV. I just as well had some shadowrunesque moments during the series so i searched dumpshock and found this topic here. Perhaps we could collect some impressions here that could be of use in our favorite game?
Things i noticed:
+ Everyone is a little grifter. Like really, even the Hitter. And although Parker has her ..problems in social situations (thumbs up or having a FEMALE character with LOW empathy and social skills btw, Leverage, bravo, thats seldom!), in fact all of the main characteres are good for the occasional con. And they really put those social skills to good use. The real Grifter just excels in it. And wow, how she does.
+ Extensive Pickpocketing. Wow, sleight of hand is really underrepresented, at least in my games. They indeed put it to good use, and again, mostly ALL of them.
+ Hacking doesnt get in the way. Ok, "Hacking", i know it's not realistic. But really, the hacker doesnt seem to be jobless at all although you almost never see him spend lots of time "in" the machine apart from the others. Thats how it should be! Partly of course, this is because he has other areas of expertise as well (like, playing the Violin as we know now.. )
+ They got a Brain. Awesome. Every Shadowrun-Team should have one! And he can also join the team on the run. Problem: There are little skills to support this role, its mostly a player- not a character- thing. Suggestions? Do we really want do let someone do a roll do the GM tells him a cool plan?
+ Concluding from above: I'd say most of the Leverage characters are generalists, which are generally (pun intended) looked down upon in Shadowrun. They all just have some little feats the others dont have to make them stand out - and it works.
+ Hooding can be fun. You already discussed it here before, they really dont have any money-problems from episode 2 on. Nevertheless they work, and it doesnt seem to get too simple for them cause of the money. Problem i see here in connection to Shadowrun is that in the game, money allows you to buy ware and foci and other gamebreaking stuff that we possibly dont want our players to have in infinite amounts. On the other hand, i wouldnt mind my players to have the money to save a hospital, or even arrange expensive setups if they get a plan that involves quite some money. This is difficult to solve i guess.
So, any suggestions, comments, ideas from the fellow dumpshock community? I personally think Leverage is a really great Oceans / A-Team Hybrid with a shadowy touch and think we might even lern a bit from the series.
So, "lets go steal some ideas" 
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 13 2010, 07:43 PM
In the latest episodes, everyone is becoming more generalist. Hardison talked about super-skrull, but everyone's doing some face work, some security work, etc. I wouldn't say that means they *are* generalists, though. Parker is extremely specialized, Hardison is extremely specialized, etc. etc. They're all great (as in, world class) at their main focus.
Posted by: nezumi Jul 13 2010, 09:18 PM
Yeah, I stopped watching in Season 1, because it did get a little repetitive. Burn Notice seems to have more variety in plots and responses, and Hustle and Real Hustle are hands down better across the board.
Is it worth coming back to?
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 13 2010, 09:23 PM
*shrug* I watch all three. They don't have to be gold.
Posted by: Tycho Jul 14 2010, 12:07 PM
I also watch both:
Leverage is more like the A-Team gone Ocean's Eleven and Burn Notice is just great. If you want the know what the uberFace looks like, watch Micheal Westen.
cya
Tycho
Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jul 14 2010, 02:04 PM
This is oddly relevant as we've been burning through the season 1 episodes before their taken out of Netflix instant queue. I've been rationalizing it as research because I'm having to back burner other stuff.
The show does get a bit formulaic but honestly it's formula is still better then 99% of the stuff out there.
As others have said it's nice to see a whole group of talented folks rather then specific super specialized persons that seem to be all the rage around here. In response to someone elses comment from way back I think a mastermind so of character is possible but their going to end up being what I like to refer to as a pointman build. Lots and lots of intuition, high logic, attention coprocessor or equivalent adept powers, sleep regulator, some to good social and stealth groups.
On the GM side of the house you don't necissarily allow someone to make some rolls and then spoon feed them the plan, that's no fun for anyone. You allow them to make some rolls and then give them some starting points and things that draw their characters eye, then they tell you what they want to do and you tell them what they need to roll to make it happen.
Posted by: Ed_209a Jul 14 2010, 04:46 PM
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 14 2010, 04:53 PM
Indeed.
Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jul 14 2010, 05:56 PM
Also i got the feeling that they are learning from each other and cross training on each others methods by watching, part of it is they are formly solo operators which meant they stayed right smack dab in their comfort zone. Now their a team and can take down bigger and more complex jobs which requires a more well rounded skill set.
Posted by: Doc Chase Jul 14 2010, 05:58 PM
I like the show. Enjoyed the heck out of the first season, but I need to go back and watch the second/jump into the third. Gonna have to look at Hustle now - Burn Notice is already atop the list of shows to watch.
Posted by: Kid Chameleon Jul 14 2010, 06:54 PM
I think Parker is a great example that charisma and beauty aren't necessarily the same and a good example of how to play someone with poor social graces.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 14 2010, 06:57 PM
Parker is Uncouth.
Posted by: Mäx Jul 14 2010, 07:08 PM
Well she's actually a perfect model on how one roleplays the heck out of buying of that particular negative quality.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 14 2010, 07:10 PM
She's not finished buying it off yet, yeah.
Posted by: Xenefungus Jul 14 2010, 09:39 PM
*stabs fork in chest* x)
Posted by: Saint Sithney Jul 15 2010, 12:26 AM
It seems like Elliot's stats are way too high.
Body, Reaction, Agility, Strength, Charisma, Intuition, Logic and Willpower all soft-maxed.
Posted by: Doc Chase Jul 15 2010, 12:39 AM
Well, yes. He started out capped out in Unarmed Combat, and has just been burning his Karma into attributes for three seasons.
Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 15 2010, 12:46 AM
There depth is what every shadowrunner should have. Despite the super specialist stuff talked about on these boards every shadowrunner should be able to run a con and have basic stealth skills(easier pre4e when it was a single skill and not a group). Everyone will have to talk to people and will have talking encounters put upon them and everyone needs to sneak around and shadow people at the least, slight of hand would be a plus.
Every table is different but this idea you can just shut up and let the face handle it does not seem realistic to me.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 15 2010, 02:18 AM
It's important that both are possible. Both are realistic, after all.
Personally, I put 1 rank in tons of skills, and rely on Attribs and mods.
Posted by: Emy Jul 15 2010, 02:23 AM
Seems more like breadth to me.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 15 2010, 02:43 AM
Funny language, English, because those mean the same things in this context.
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