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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Small Unit Tactics
Posted by: DV8 Jan 6 2004, 08:54 AM
Can someone tell me where to find this skill, and what the benefits are? Thanks.
Posted by: Lilt Jan 6 2004, 08:56 AM
| QUOTE (DV8 @ Jan 6 2004, 08:54 AM) |
| Can someone tell me where to find this skill, and what the benefits are? Thanks. |
P47, M&M was the first mention. It's also described in the CC on P105. There are also rules for using it with a BattleTac IVIS system are on P43 of R3, and rules for using it with the BattleTac Matrixlink system in the Matrix book on P71.
[edit]With it you can command a small group of characters (up-to your skill rating in characters) giving them some bonuses. Benefits come in the form of either initiative boosts or, as an optional rule in the CC, combat pool bonuses. You make a single test (in your last action of an initiative pass) with a TN varying by how well you can communicate with each character and give them 1 point of bonus (either combat pool or initiative) for every 2 successes. It can also be used to give yourself bonuses in the same manner. You can make a highly effective master tactician character if you buy an aptitude in small unit tactics and can afford (and find, availability 12) the Tactical Computer + The cyber/bio that provide appropriate task pools (namely the Encephalon and Cerebral Booster)[/edit]
Posted by: DV8 Jan 6 2004, 09:25 AM
Does everyone in the group being commanded have to have small unit tactics in order to benefit from the bonusses, or just the character doing the commanding?
Is this sort of like the way Lt. Gorman has control over the marines in Aliens?
Posted by: Lilt Jan 6 2004, 09:35 AM
Just the character doing the commanding.
I'd say yes to the second question. Essentially you're barking out orders that help people respond more efficiently or keep them more focused on the task at hand. The commanding can be done entierly silently, however, using transducers and radio links.
Various bits of gear (Anything with the phrase Battletac in the name as a rule of thumb) are also designed to assist in the usage of the small unit tactics skill. P54 and 55 of the CC are a good source for gear related to BattleTac Systems. Note that Battletac not-only acts as a helpful platform for the small unit tactics skill but can also be used for indirect fire of guided munitions such as missiles and some mortar rounds.
Posted by: Wireknight Jan 6 2004, 09:43 AM
Small Unit Tactics, just for self-use, if you use the Cannon Companion optional rule about bonus combat pool dice, is a tremendously useful skill for combat-oriented characters, independent of their ability to use Battletac or similar means to convey the bonus to others. A character with a skill of 6(or higher, or with a Tactical Computer for bonus skill dice) can add 3 or more points to their Combat Pool every initiative roll, which can make the difference between victory and defeat, or at least provide bonuses on-par(and cumulative) with the adept power and detection spell, Combat Sense.
Likewise, a character with a tactical computer who makes full use of the skill/bonus dice, in addition to the innate bonus to combat pool, can squeeze another two bonus combat pool dice out of a maximum level Tactical Computer, independent of any pre-existing skill. Not quite as useful as Athletics with optional acrobatic dodging rules, nor Stealth for just avoiding combat entirely(or at least gaining the -2 Ambusher bonus to Surprise tests), but still a very useful skill for a character to be given in creation, or picked up later.
Posted by: Crimsondude 2.0 Jan 7 2004, 05:07 AM
| QUOTE (Lilt) | ||
P47, M&M was the first mention. It's also described in the CC on P105. There are also rules for using it with a BattleTac IVIS system are on P43 of R3, and rules for using it with the BattleTac Matrixlink system in the Matrix book on P71. |
Not to be an ass, but the first mention was in Fields of Fire, in the rules section right next to the BattleTac skill and rules explanation.
Posted by: Tanka Jan 7 2004, 05:11 AM
| QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) | ||||
Not to be an ass, but the first mention was in Fields of Fire, in the rules section right next to the BattleTac skill and rules explanation. |
Yes, but that's SR2. I think he wants updated SR3 rulings and not a bunch of rules that only make sense with the system it was designed for.
Posted by: mfb Jan 7 2004, 05:22 AM
i tend to rename that skill more often than any other. 'Small Unit Tactics' is definitely very military/spec-ops oriented, and it looks odd on a go-ganger's char sheet.
it also irks me greatly that there's no specialization for individual combat (using it only on yourself) and fireteams (groups of operatives in the meat).
Posted by: Fortune Jan 7 2004, 05:25 AM
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| it also irks me greatly that there's no specialization for individual combat (using it only on yourself) and fireteams (groups of operatives in the meat). |
Sure there are. Not every single possible specialization is listed in the books. IIRC, it even suggests that players come up with their own appropriate ones for skills. Those two make total sense, and so should be included with no problems.
Posted by: Tanka Jan 7 2004, 05:26 AM
Does that mean I can finally make an Oreo Adept that uses Throwing Weapons (Oreos) to kill people with chocolatey goodness? 
Posted by: OurTeam Jan 7 2004, 05:28 AM
Yes, if your GM approves.
Posted by: Tanka Jan 7 2004, 05:31 AM
Yay!
So, what's an Oreo do, anyway? Something like (Str-10)L?
Posted by: Luke Hardison Jan 7 2004, 05:33 AM
*has horrible visions of dikoted oreos*
Shhh! Nabisco might sue.
Posted by: Tanka Jan 7 2004, 05:43 AM
Oh, right, forgot the ™ bit.
Wait... Dikoted? Unless you want vaporized cookies... Best not to try such a thing.
Posted by: kevyn668 Jan 7 2004, 05:44 AM
I've been wondering this forever!! Somewhere between my SR3 and one of the supplements-apparently, M&M-this skill went from "knowledge" to "active". What gives?
Which takes me to my nest questions:
If you have this as an active skill and use it even w/o a Battletac, the other people on your "team" get a bonus, right? Something to do w/ successes and initiative?
So do you as a player have to know what your character is saying? It seems like you should have some idea for game flavor/atmosphere if nothing else. At the same time, most of my characters have skills I don't (Sorcery, for example) or have ratings in other skills that far out rank my own.
Should you have to read up on RL tactics to be a better player? I've always wanted to have an excuse to purchase Special Operations for Idiots (yes, it does exist) but I don't have to read Popular Mechanics to play a rigger. Hell, I don't even have to read Rigger3.
Posted by: toturi Jan 7 2004, 05:44 AM
| QUOTE (Luke Hardison) |
| *has horrible visions of dikoted oreos* Shhh! Nabisco might sue. |
Maybe you'll like a Nachos adept? Gives a new meaning to chipped skills.
Posted by: Tanka Jan 7 2004, 05:49 AM
| QUOTE (kevyn668) |
| I've been wondering this forever!! Somewhere between my SR3 and one of the supplements-apparently, M&M-this skill went from "knowledge" to "active". What gives? Which takes me to my nest questions: If you have this as an active skill and use it even w/o a Battletac, the other people on your "team" get a bonus, right? Something to do w/ successes and initiative? So do you as a player have to know what your character is saying? It seems like you should have some idea for game flavor/atmosphere if nothing else. At the same time, most of my characters have skills I don't (Sorcery, for example) or have ratings in other skills that far out rank my own. Should you have to read up on RL tactics to be a better player? I've always wanted to have an excuse to purchase Special Operations for Idiots (yes, it does exist) but I don't have to read Popular Mechanics to play a rigger. Hell, I don't even have to read Rigger3. |
The "better tactic" from the roll is usually represented (If I remember the rules right... Correct me if not...) with extra initiative mods and Combat Pool. Unless the GM was entirely sadistic, he'd just assume that you got the jump on the NPCs you're trying to outmaneuver.
If he does want you to make those suggestions et al, then maybe you should just all play yourselves and he'll make NPCs to suit. Real fun game there, huh?
Posted by: kevyn668 Jan 7 2004, 05:53 AM
Sure, I could play myself. I already have stats...But could I play myself, playing SR?
Or would I be reduced to:
GM: He's using a smiley you don't recognize. Roll you Etiquette skill. You may use your "Emoticons" knowledge skill as a Complimentary Skill.
Me: Bitchin! 
Posted by: Rattler Jan 8 2004, 09:13 PM
How exactly does Small Unit Tactics work if you use it on yourself? What's the base target number to roll against? I'm guessing it would be 2, since communicating with yourself is unquestionably easier than communicating with a teammate, even if you're both hooked up via cyberlink.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 8 2004, 09:43 PM
| QUOTE (Rattler) |
| I'm guessing it would be 2, since communicating with yourself is unquestionably easier than communicating with a teammate, even if you're both hooked up via cyberlink. |
That's what I thought at first as well, but then I figured that the battletac cyberlink is probably supposed to have some built-in systems that help not only in communicating but also in visualizing and understanding the tactical situation. Also, I figured the cyberlink ought to have some reason to exist at all. So I put it at 4.
Posted by: Siege Jan 8 2004, 11:13 PM
I think it's a bad precedent to allow a skill to directly impact combat pool or Iniative tests.
It opens the door to other ideas.
-Siege
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 8 2004, 11:16 PM
| QUOTE |
| It opens the door to other ideas. |
Let's hear them! I'm interested.
Posted by: Siege Jan 8 2004, 11:21 PM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) | ||
Let's hear them! I'm interested. |
I'm playing a gunslinger who isn't wired, but he's got a lightning quick draw.
Active skill: Quickdraw
Every success adds 1 die to a character's Initative to draw and fire only.
SMUT allows the precedent for other skills to impact Combat Pool, Initiative and possibly other previously untouched areas.
-Siege
Posted by: mfb Jan 9 2004, 12:03 AM
remember: no one is allowed to touch you in your bathing suit area.
there should be skills that affect cp, init, and other areas. the difference between a ground-pounder and a ranger is just training--not super-high stats, not (just) the ability to shoot straight, but constant training in the skills they need to whup ass. i mean, look at all the doctrine that surrounds any specops group--how to clear a room, how to take advantage of low light conditions, how to coordinate with snipers and other elements. to me, that constant practice and refinement of techniques doesn't seem like raising Qui, Int, and Wil; granted, raising stats is part of it, but there's a limit to how far raising stats can take you. there are relatively few limits to the difference between a well-trained operator and some sucker who's watched too many movies.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 9 2004, 12:17 AM
SMUT allows a lot of things, but few of them are untouched.
~J
Posted by: Aramus Jan 23 2004, 09:59 PM
Does the init boost is more reaction or more dice ?
Posted by: OurTeam Jan 23 2004, 10:05 PM
Neither one. Initiative Dice and Reaction are unchanged. It raises the final initiative number, much like wounds reduce the final initiative number.
More details on using Small Unit Tactics, including Target Numbers, target modifiers, number of successes required, and the time it takes to communicate to other team members are described with the skill in CC p. 105.
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