Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Information Warfare and Shaping Public Perceptions
Posted by: FlakJacket Apr 6 2009, 01:52 AM
Been clearing out the favourites files and came across http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/8798997/the_man_who_sold_the_war. Now granted it's a few years old and concentrates a little on the whole Iraq affair but on re-reading it in a certain way it really reminds of Horizon and their public opinion back ninja squads and how they operate.
Posted by: Muspellsheimr Apr 6 2009, 02:55 AM
http://xkcd.com/559/
Posted by: CanRay Apr 6 2009, 10:48 AM
How about how the Megacorporations, before Horizon was in the mix, turned war into a method of settling disputes and a ratings bonanza!
DESERT WARS! URBAN BRAWL! COMBAT CYCLE!
Posted by: ravensmuse Apr 6 2009, 10:51 AM
Canray's back! 
Posted by: Chrysalis Apr 6 2009, 11:04 AM
I like information warfare. Psychological Operations. Gray propaganda.
Say I was to tell you I had irrefutable proof of Horizon being evil. You go to a hotel where the documents are shown to you. Unfortunately you cannot take them with you. You then contact a few journalists who given your past affiliations gain frontline headlines. Further information is forthcoming from other sources. Wen things start getting staid you phone up your new friends who supply you with further information. Eventually you become the champion of this cause and then as your life becomes enmeshed you become fixated. Only one answer is the right answer - Horizon is evil. Everything has deeper implication of the evil of Horizon.
-Chrysalis
Posted by: CanRay Apr 6 2009, 12:46 PM
Yep!
GO BLACK DEVILS!
Posted by: InfinityzeN Apr 6 2009, 01:06 PM
The key to Information Operations is that you never lie. You can stretch the truth, not give the whole truth, selectively give it out while combining it careful tailored lies. But you never, ever, eva'eva'eva, lie straight out.
Posted by: Chrysalis Apr 6 2009, 01:36 PM
There is also the argument about the little lie vs. the big lie.
Nowdays with information technology you can always tell the truth. It is just selective the truth. You can also use a secondary source who you have fed the lies that turn them into the Big Lie which the informer genuine believes to be the truth.
Posted by: CanRay Apr 6 2009, 01:43 PM
There's also the ever popular http://media.photobucket.com/image/Chair%20Leg%20of%20Truth/tigereye001/g.jpg!
Posted by: ICPiK Apr 6 2009, 10:37 PM
I think I will definitely have to add a chair leg of truth or a crowbar or something to my interrogation skill.
Posted by: CanRay Apr 7 2009, 01:40 AM
Personally, I find a Dumpster, provided you can find one that still has a heavy steel lid, to be the most effective.
Just get your Big Ork/Troll buddy to hold the guy in one spot, lift the lid to the very top, and lay the forearm down on the edge.
If you think he's lying, bring it down as hard as you can.
You might want some Stims handy to keep him concious past the point where he wants to be.
That's one of the tricks my Mr. Johnson uses. 
But, yeah, there's nothing like some heavy pipe-hittin' trogs to give that little, personal touches to get to the truth.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 7 2009, 01:45 AM
Amen, Always seed your lies with a good dose of truth...
Posted by: CanRay Apr 7 2009, 01:53 AM
"Even the Devil can tell the truth." is something I've said quite a few times. Even in Church (Salvation Army), which shocked quite a few people, but the Captains agreed with me.
The truth is often the best lie of all. One that has a perfect alibi.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 7 2009, 01:56 AM
"And the Truth Shall Set You Free"
Posted by: Cardul Apr 16 2009, 09:08 AM
In an old school vampire:the masquerade game I was in, I played a Tremere who actually never lied. Yet, because he was a Tremere, no-one ever believed him. DESPITE the fact that he ALWAYS told the truth. I had found where the local sabbat haven was, and, like any good Tremere, I sat on that information until I could leverage it for something more. Unfortunately, the Ventrue Prince bought that land for some project or another, and so, I decided now would be a good time to let the prince know..He concluded I was lying and trying to gain something or other(half right...I was trying to gain something..) and so, he declared that the next nights Elysium would be held at this new aquisition...No-one made it out alive, and I gained what I wanted..
What does that example have? PR painted my character as a liar and untrustworthy, DESPITE the fact that the character never overtly lied(The character was of course, prone to telling the literal truth, and what he did not say was often more important then what he did say. And, often, he worded things so that the listener would go to a conclusion other then what he was saying...but that is beside the point 
) simply because of his Clan. This allowed me to use that people inherently did not trust me to manipulate them, by being honest.
People will jump to their own conclusions based on their biases and prejudices. This, to me makes Horizon possibly the single most dangerous of the Megas. Because, unlike the others, they understand this and make use of it. I am really wondering what we are going to see at the end from them...I am expecting Universal Brotherhood-level Evil, myself....
Posted by: The Jake Apr 16 2009, 12:05 PM
I quote George Costanza:
"It's not a lie if you believe in it!"
- J.
Posted by: AngelisStorm Apr 16 2009, 12:20 PM
Ahh, but what is a lie? Is it a lie, if you simply state a incorrect fact, with no intention of fooling anyone?
"The sky is purple."
I know the sky isn't purple. You know the sky isn't purple. I know you know, you known I know, you know I know you know, and etc etc and so on. Since no one is attempting to fool anyone else, and everyone knows this. Thus, is it a lie, or just a false statement, an incorrect truth?
Posted by: CanRay Apr 16 2009, 02:01 PM
Depends on what drugs/AR you got going.
That might be the truth as far as you're concerned.
"And your head's a Toaster man, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
Posted by: hobgoblin Apr 16 2009, 03:22 PM
ah, mind screw
Posted by: Heath Robinson Apr 16 2009, 03:55 PM
"The sky is purple."
I know the sky isn't purple. You know the sky isn't purple. I know you know, you known I know, you know I know you know, and etc etc and so on. Since no one is attempting to fool anyone else, and everyone knows this. Thus, is it a lie, or just a false statement, an incorrect truth?
It's called being facetious and your mother would not approve.
Posted by: AngelisStorm Apr 19 2009, 12:23 PM
Hmm, while I don't completely agree Heath, interesting way to go about the question.
Incidently, this came up in one of my classes and it's been bugging me, but I haven't had the time to sit down and poke at it extensively yet:
If someone says something (for example "I love you"), and means it completely, but later (let's say, for the discussion, a year) doesn't feel the same way (and/or goes back on what they said), why do we say they are a lier? Is it anything empirical, or is it a gut/emotional reaction?
Does it make a difference if they add on a time quantifier, such as "forever?"
Posted by: CanRay Apr 19 2009, 01:37 PM
Depends on if they're masculane or feminine. 
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 19 2009, 03:41 PM
You cannot emphasize this enough...
Posted by: CanRay Apr 19 2009, 04:32 PM
Anything you say, can, and will, be twisted in any form our newscasters want in order to get the responce we want from the public...
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 19 2009, 04:44 PM
Ain't that the truth...
Posted by: Warlordtheft Apr 20 2009, 01:35 AM
And if it is contrary to their goals discredit, under report it and dismiss it. Another list-some of which you see in modern US media outlets.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/articles/20051129.aspx
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)