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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Recent Firearm Developments

Posted by: Raygun Jan 22 2004, 04:36 AM

Thought a few of you might be interested in this...

There's a new .50 caliber handgun cartridge out there, designed for a slightly modified custom 1911. It's called the .50 GI and it fires a 300 grain JHP @ 725 fps for 410 fpe. Well within the bounds of a practical defensive pistol cartridge. The manufacturer (http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/) says that recoil is on par with .45 ACP hardball (230 FMJ @ 855 fps). Seven rounds fit in the full-size 1911 magazine. Might not get far, but it's kind of interesting.

Speaking of 1911 pistols, SIG has just released one with a light attachment rail called the http://www.sigarms.com/products/gsr-models.asp?product_id=197. A Swiss 1911. Never thought I'd see it. Then again, I never thought I'd see http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293581&sw_activeTab=1 make one either. Believe it or not, Heckler & Koch and CZ are also reported to have a 1911 on the drawing board. According to American Handgunner, the M9 is not getting high marks (again) and the 1911 is a much-coveted item over there. The very few 1911s that have been found in inventory (300 unissued, WWII-era pistols plus 25 mothballed rebuilds, according to AH) have been issued overseas, and the Marine Corps recently ordered parts commercially for some 789 1911s. Apparently after this and a DOD request for a major-caliber handgun, even European companies are jumping on the 1911 bus, hoping for big contracts. 93 years and kicking more ass than ever...

The new issue of American Handgunner has a totally custom pistol called the M11 Merc, developed by Craig Ltd. (pistolsmith Fred Craig) of Inman, Kansas and manufactured by IC Technologies. It is a gas delayed blowback pistol, operating with a system similar to the HK P7/Steyr GB. It's striker-fired, uses the CZ75 slide/frame rail arrangement, has an extremely low barrel axis, has a grip safety similar to the 1911 and an integral 6-port compensator. It also has a light mount. It is available in 9x19mm, .357 SIG and .40 S&W. Again, it's totally custom, so if you don't want the compensator or the grip safety, they'll make it without them for you. Prices start a $3,800 and go up from there. It's an extremely cool-looking pistol that appears to be very well-designed. I think some of you will probably shit when you see it.

Something I've posted before but thought maybe I should post again is a link to Heckler & Koch's http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/xm8.html page. This is the rifle that will most likely replace the M16/M4 series rifles in the US military. It is based on HK's G36 and is the "kinetic energy weapon" part of the XM29 OICW weapon system. It is modular, allowing for several different barrel/stock/forearm/sight configurations to fit mission requirements. It is also designed with cartridge conversion in mind, particularly for the http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000512.html currently being put to use by Special Operations elements. The guys testing the XM8 appear to love it.

I'd post more, but unfortunately, I've run out of time. Hope this has been informative.

Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 22 2004, 04:56 AM

Yep, you need that .45 in case you meet a filipino with a knife.

Posted by: Diesel Jan 22 2004, 04:56 AM

As always Raygun.

We salute you.

Posted by: Solstice Jan 22 2004, 05:15 AM

QUOTE (Raygun @ Jan 21 2004, 11:36 PM)

Something I've posted before but thought maybe I should post again is a link to Heckler & Koch's http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/xm8.html page. This is the rifle that will most likely replace the M16/M4 series rifles in the US military. It is based on HK's G36 and is the "kinetic energy weapon" part of the XM29 OICW weapon system. It is modular, allowing for several different barrel/stock/forearm/sight configurations to fit mission requirements. It is also designed with cartridge conversion in mind, particularly for the http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000512.html currently being put to use by Special Operations elements. The guys testing the XM8 appear to love it.

According to some buddies at 29 Palms, they are training regulars with it already.

*EDIT* Taking into account how much they drink you can consider that a rumor.

Posted by: FlakJacket Jan 22 2004, 05:47 AM

QUOTE (Raygun)

Whoa, plastic fantastic.

I know that most of them are like that, but that does just seem to be slipping a little into Mattel territory to me. But that's more of a styling, personal choice preference thing.

Posted by: Panzergeist Jan 22 2004, 06:02 AM

You want new guns? Try electronicly-fired guns. I'm not talking about the gatling guns on ships. I'm talking about handguns where the bullets are lined up in the barrel and discharged via an electric charge. There was one gun like that that could empty a 30-round clip in less than a second. Each bullet would actually slam into the rear of the previous one lodged in the target.

Posted by: Raygun Jan 22 2004, 06:10 AM

http://www.metalstorm.com. Mostly useless at the small arms scale, IMO.

There's also Remington's http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700etronx.htm rifle, which is a more conventional electronic firing system. The rifle uses the same ammunition; bullets, brass, powder, but instead of the conventional percussion primer, it uses an electronic primer. The primer is ignited only by an electronic firing system, which reduces lock time (the time between the point at which the sear is released and the cartridge is ignited) dramatically, thus improving accuracy, especially at very long ranges.

QUOTE (FlakJacket)

Whoa, plastic fantastic. I know that most of them are like that, but that does just seem to be slipping a little into Mattel territory to me.

You know, that's what they said about the M16 when it came out. They actually called it the "Mattel rifle." Now we're looking at one that's got twice as much plastic on it, but is probably twice as reliable.

QUOTE (Solstice)

According to some buddies at 29 Palms, they are training regulars with it already.

*EDIT* Taking into account how much they drink you can consider that a rumor.

If you mean the XM8, it's probably pretty reliable. I hear it's been making the rounds myself. If you're talking about the 6.8x43mm, that's a very interesting rumor! The sooner we go to something more substantial than the 5.56x45mm, the better, I say.

Posted by: Panzergeist Jan 22 2004, 06:27 AM

Yeah, the M-16 was called the buck rogers space gun for the longest time because it was made of wierd-ass composites rather than trusty old steel and wood, and used a new, smaller bullet. People missed the power of the old M-14. More importantly, the bolt was hella tight and it jammed all the time. But after a while, 5.56mm bullets and lightweight composites became NATO standard. If you think electronicly fire bullets is strange, you should get a load of the OICW, or better yet, DARPA's future warrior program. Not to mention the powered armor that DARPA is developing.

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 22 2004, 09:09 AM

QUOTE (Panzergeist)

If you think electronicly fire bullets is strange, you should get a load of the OICW [...]

There's nothing that special about the OICW. Just strip everything extra from that XM8, slap it under a 20mm grenade launcher and add some optics and computering. And, BTW, I have not seen a complete and accurate list of what the firing computer thingie can do yet -- anyone got a link?

I don't really care much for all that 1911-stuff, though it's possible that I'll add a few models to my guns-list for when we start a new 2060s game. The 6.8x43mm stuff is more interesting to me: I will almost certainly add that caliber to my 2060s list, and will change some of the existing guns into that caliber and add a few new ones. I'm not very happy about the current 7M/-2 vs 9M difference between 5.5s and ~6.5-7s that I have put down in game terms, but I can't think of anything better.

Is there a significant difference in penetration potential between a 5.56x45 and a 6.8x43? I couldn't find mention. Looking at the wound profiles of a 5.56x45 FMJ, a 9x19mm FMJ and a .22LR round, I still think the 5.56x45 (fragmentation excluded) looks more like the 9x19 than the .22LR, and so the Moderate Damage Level is justified. The drop in Power in my games that leads to the ~5.5 FMJs doing 5M at Long and 4M at Extreme, compared to 6M at Extreme for the ~6.5-7 FMJs, makes a significant difference, but not in most game scenarios, where firefights are rarely fought over distances longer than 50 meters, and almost never longer than 150 meters.

Posted by: Siege Jan 22 2004, 02:54 PM

QUOTE (Crusher Bob)

Yep, you need that .45 in case you meet a filipino with a knife.

We made the Marines earn the nick "leatherneck".

-Siege

Edit: We in the strictly colloquial sense, naturally

Posted by: spotlite Jan 22 2004, 05:56 PM

Hell with all the new toys they're making these days, I'm starting to appreciate the sheer amount of knowledge the Crash of '29 wiped! That's what I'll be saying if a player wants one of these things anyway. One wanted to make an OICW a few months back. He came up with a very nicely balanced rail mounting system so you could make the modular compnents of the gun, and even though I knew it was a real gun now, I had to tell him no (well, i think I told him that it could certainly exist, but his character didn't have relevant skills, and if it did exist it was at military level and he can't have one so yaa boo sucks) because I looked at it, and frankly it made me scared that the military might have them, never mind a bunch of low life shadowrunners with profit on their minds!

Posted by: Pthgar Jan 22 2004, 08:53 PM

The OICW ca be built easily with the Cannon Companion. The main advantage of the OICW computer is timed airbursts. That's what the Grenade Link option does. They absolutely have that tech in SR 2060's. I mean a street punk can get Smartlink for cryin' out loud! That's at least as advanced (in a small arms/electronic interface way) as the OICW.

Posted by: Raygun Jan 23 2004, 12:47 AM

Or you can just buy an Ares Alpha Combat Gun, a rangefinder and some air-timed grenades. Voila. OICW.

Posted by: Pthgar Jan 23 2004, 02:49 AM

Exactly, no big deal to make it in SR.