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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ The Jenner Strain
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 24 2004, 03:50 AM
Today I collaborated with my GM (Damien Knight) to create this excellent run Idea. If any of you could take the time to read this and let me know what you think, I would appreciate your ideas.
Update:
After hearing some positive feedback, It sounds like some GM's might plan on using this idea. Thats GREAT! I encourage everyone to use and expand this idea (if you could mention joker and Damienknight that would be nice).
Because of this, I ask that if you are part of a static group (one consistant GM) you might want to let your GM read this first and see if he wants to use it. Dont spoil the fun for yourself with player knowledge 
Anyway, on with the telling:
THE JENNER STRAIN:
A group of scientists working for Shiawase has been researching a cure for the HMHV Virus. They know that if you get any strand of HMHVV, it makes you immune to all strands of HMHVV, so they are trying to create a ‘sterile’ version that has virtually no side effects, but still makes you immune to HMHVV. In order to tackle this task, they have enlisted the aid of a magically gifted Native American Owl Shaman. They have had moderate success in getting many of the traits out of the Vampiric strain of this virus, including eliminating allergy to light, and essence drain. This new strain was named the Jenner Strain (named after the English physician who bravely (and illegally) used a child as a test subject in order to create the first vaccine for Small pox). They thought they had rid themselves of all traits, and decided they wanted to upgrade testing from living fetuses, to actual people. This did not go well.
They quickly found that subjects still suffered from slow essence loss, were still immune to normal weapons, and were still contagious and eventually weakened and killed from essence loss. During the testing, their corporation suffered from an attack by runners on a data steal mission. In the ensuing chaos, the test subject was able to infect one of the runners.
The Owl Shaman was seriously injured, but the rest of the scientists got together and decided to cover the incident up. After pooling their resources, they hired a detective to track down the infected runner, and found that he had retreated to his home village in the Rocky Mountains of Sioux Nations. They want to hire the runners to kill the infected subject, and his entire village (of 6 innocent native American Families).
The scientists will offer the group a modest amount of cash, and access to a Delta Grade cyber ware clinic.
Meanwhile, the Shaman, who was barely saved by his Totem, is trapped in coma. In his coma, his spirit drifted to the Owls plane of existence, where he is trapped until his body recovers. While there, he convinces a low power free owl spirit to go and find out what happened. When he learns of the other scientist’s plans of annihilating the entire village, he sends the spirit to the scientists to beg their reconsideration. The scientists reject the spirit, being more concerned with covering their own jobs and medical licenses, than saving anyone’s life. He then sends the spirit to the runners. The spirit will try and convince the runners to travel with it to the astral plane to speak with the shaman (the spirit itself, being force 2, isn’t intelligent enough to convey the shamans thoughts itself). If the runners agree, the spirit will take them on a short astral quest to speak with the Shaman.
The Shaman will offer an alternate plan to killing all of the villagers. He wants the runners to go to the village, take only the infected villagers (leaving the uninfected alive) and have them cryogenically frozen (and magically put in stasis) until a possible cure can be found. The Shaman however, will offer no reward, except for the honor of doing the right thing.
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Thanks for reading through all of that! Now let the comments flow like a sweet necture of GM inspiration!
Posted by: Phaeton Jan 24 2004, 03:53 AM
...I like it.
...I really, really like it.
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 24 2004, 03:54 AM
I like the dual options, but I have two questions:
a.) Is it going to be a campaign where you award karma for moral actions, but not immoral ones?
and
b.) If the runners help one party, is the other party going to be pissed and retaliate? I can see how the corp, at least, would. And it might piss of the totem if they went on and killed the villagers. (Never a good thing...)
Posted by: Ancient History Jan 24 2004, 03:57 AM
That reminds me, there was a vaccine for HMHVV mentioned in Psychotrope. I should update my Infected page.
Posted by: toturi Jan 24 2004, 03:58 AM
For a blood bath of that magnitude approx 20-30 people, your modest sum of 
had better be in 5 digits for each runner and some free deltaware...
On the other hand, for preventing an HMHVV outbreak and not massacreing so many people, I think it deserves quite some karma (maybe a initaitory Deed equivalent).
Now if you have a cyber sam and an Awakened on your team, watch them tear each other apart... 
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 24 2004, 04:00 AM
I you're the kind of group that would take the job of wiping out a village full of people for money, you aren't too likely to be interested in doing the right thing for free.
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 24 2004, 04:03 AM
DamienKnight: Good observations kitsune (and sweet name, Kitsune was the coolest character on the Shadowrun Nintendo RPG).
We have already discussed this, and decided that there would definately be Big Karma awards for doing moral actions, and big penalties for doing the wrong ones (hopefully balanced out by the delta grade clinic).
Also, the Clinic access was thrown out as a great temptation for party strife. Many Cybered characters will want to say screw the village, i want my delta grade wires 3, while magically active characters would be more enticed by the karma award for doing the right thing.
As a house rule, killing other Characters gets you -3 karma, and assisting gets you -1 karma. (this is aside from penalties for doing the wrong thing). There should also be an all around 1 karma bonus for characters who experience strife but work it out (or a leadership bonus for a peacemaker character).
As for retaliation, its limited. If they blow the lid on the whole thing to the media, the corp may be ticked off, but there is limited value in revenge (its all about dollars and sense they say.)
As for the totem, he may invoke a spirit to fight them, but I think their real threat would be relatives and native american governments who might want to track them down and get revenge.
Great points, thanks for all the quick replies!
Posted by: Req Jan 24 2004, 04:04 AM
Hell, I got some players would take the run for cheap, and throw in the civvy kills for free. 
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 24 2004, 04:07 AM
Actually, I used this name before I ever played that... Name of my first Shadowrun character, who I still play in Kagetenshi's online game (SOTSW).
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 24 2004, 04:10 AM
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| For a blood bath of that magnitude approx 20-30 people, your modest sum of had better be in 5 digits for each runner and some free deltaware... |
Thats a perceptive interjection, Toturi. My thoughts on this are, if you are going for high powered characters, give out some big rewards. If not, entice players into the slaughter option with the promise of a good coverup. Access to a delta grade clinic for shadowrunnners should be legendary. Its like someone giving them a Fairlight Excalibur or something. Most street sammies would rape and murder their own families for access to a Delta Grade clinic.
The moral conflict is what this is all about. Make both sides tempting, and get the players seriously considering the motivations of their characters. Performing a heroic deed like this could help a character start to develope stronger morals, while total slaughter really makes most other bad things seem small in comparison.
Its like dark side points in KOTOR. Do bad things and your more likely to be evil.
Party struggles are interesting, dont discourage them, but if they get too bad, you might want to make one option seem more disirable in order to save the unity (or lives) of your groups.
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 24 2004, 04:13 AM
Though actually... Couldn't helping the Shaman at least win him as a contact for the team, with the potential to get favors in return? Something of the sort?
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 24 2004, 04:14 AM
Don't forget to sell the bodies to a dog food company as 'raw materials'.
If you don't leave any evidence, how are they going to ID who did the deed? The team goes in at night, kills everyone, then leaves. There may be some camera footage of guys in black body suits with HKs and some spent shell casing and stuff, but the team will ditch all of the gear used. Just having the 'good guys' finds you because you did something really bad always strikes me as poor GMing technique.
If the team has already accepted the offer to wipe out the village, I would assume that the team members were ok with wiping out the village to being with. I will assume that the Johnson for the run just said:
job: wipe out everyone at place X, burn the bodies.
reason for job: they like eminem, so they just plain need killin' (but does it really matter?)
Reward: XXX + the following extra stuff.
And then the team said yes they're pretty far off the Straight Path already.
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 24 2004, 04:15 AM
DamienKnight to Kitsune:
Really, thats awesome. I didnt mean to undermine your creativity, only to reminisce on good old times. If you were a fox shaman, I would raise my eyebrow, but being a Cat Shaman lends credit to your originality. Nice signature btw
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 04:16 AM
Just slaughtering 20-30 innocents isn't much of a job. If you can handle the Immune to Normal Weapons ex-runner, slaughtering the civvies shouldn't prove a problem.
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 24 2004, 04:17 AM
| QUOTE (Joker9125) |
| DamienKnight to Kitsune: Really, thats awesome. I didnt mean to undermine your creativity, only to reminisce on good old times. If you were a fox shaman, I would raise my eyebrow, but being a Cat Shaman lends credit to your originality. Nice signature btw |
Actually... She's an Otaku. But she's half-Japanese, and her surname's "Foxx." It was her mom's nickname for her.
The sig's just a random comment that popped up when I was GM'ing and one of my players was choosing his shaman's totem.
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 24 2004, 04:21 AM
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| Don't forget to sell the bodies to a dog food company as 'raw materials'. If you don't leave any evidence, how are they going to ID who did the deed? The team goes in at night, kills everyone, then leaves. There may be some camera footage of guys in black body suits with HKs and some spent shell casing and stuff, but the team will ditch all of the gear used. Just having the 'good guys' finds you because you did something really bad always strikes me as poor GMing technique. If the team has already accepted the offer to wipe out the village, I would assume that the team members were ok with wiping out the village to being with. I will assume that the Johnson for the run just said: job: wipe out everyone at place X, burn the bodies. reason for job: they like eminem, so they just plain need killin' (but does it really matter?) Reward: XXX + the following extra stuff.And then the team said yes they're pretty far off the Straight Path already. |
DamienKnight to Chomper:
LOL
I agree that the Scientist would definately not tell the runners why they are murdering the civilians (but hopefully the runners would wonder why and look into it). Perhaps providing some clues that the scientists work for Shiawase could lead to legwork.
Really the thing is, the Shaman's spirit will tell them there is more to the run than they are being told, and good shadowrunners should be curious enough to take the spirit up on the astral quest. When they meet the Shaman, he will spill it all to them, giving them the knowledge they need to make good moral choices.
To Kitsune: Yes, the shaman is a potential contact, but he couldnt promise that as a reward because he is unsure of his bodies ability to recover. It should be like Joe Millionaire., when the chick finds out hes poor, she marries him anyway, then they surprise them both with a million bucks. Give them the contact, but dont promise it to them at the start. Make the moral decision hard to make.
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 24 2004, 04:27 AM
| QUOTE (Joker9125) |
| To Kitsune: Yes, the shaman is a potential contact, but he couldnt promise that as a reward because he is unsure of his bodies ability to recover. It should be like Joe Millionaire., when the chick finds out hes poor, she marries him anyway, then they surprise them both with a million bucks. Give them the contact, but dont promise it to them at the start. Make the moral decision hard to make. |
Of course! It isn't as if an NPC is going to come out and say they're offering themselves as a contact.
I was just trying to think of things that could help the team if they chose that path. Otherwise, they end up with some Karma, some warm fuzzies, and a megacorp pissed at them.
Really. To cut the whole "I gave up Deltaware for THIS?!" effect.
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 24 2004, 04:27 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Just slaughtering 20-30 innocents isn't much of a job. If you can handle the Immune to Normal Weapons ex-runner, slaughtering the civvies shouldn't prove a problem. |
DamienKnight to Emancipator:
Your right, the job wont be a greatly challenging one, but its only reward is a moderate amount of cash and acccess to a cyber clinic. They should get almost no karma if they choose the easy solution.
Also, things to consider:
The strain has only been in the village for 2 or maybe 3 days. If the strain caused infected native americans to lose 1 point of essence a day, many of the residents will have 4 or 5 points of essence. This means the party has to deal with probably 5-10 infected superhumans. They are Indians surviving in a remote mountain location, so they are not pussies to start with, but imagine this: A low skilled average attributed hunter indian with an extra 5 points of strength, 10 points of armor against normal weapons. These buggers are going to put up a decent fight, even without the homeground advantage. And if this is still to easy, throw in a resident shaman or two to knock up the challenge level a notch (or have the owl spirit get some nature spirits to back up the 'innocents'
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 04:48 AM
I was mostly commenting to toturi, because I disagree that just killing 20-30 civvies should net you a lot of cash. I know my team could slaughter them without much fuss (the ex-runner excluded).
I personally like the run idea, and it's possible I might plagiarise it. Largely because I haven't introduced any HMHVV-nastiness into my games yet.
Posted by: Velocity Jan 24 2004, 05:11 AM
First off, great idea--I only hope my players haven't read this thread.
I do have a critical question though: what are the locals doing about this infection, aside from waiting fo the PCs? I mean, surely someone's noticed something going on here. Are there any medical professionals or Awakened in the village? What about a regular person who's reasonably perceptive? Maybe the local spirits notice something's up and manifest to alert the mundane locals...
However it happens, I find it hard to believe that no-one notices anything amiss until the hard-asses from the big city show up to clean house.
Otherwise, I'm really digging the idea--good on ya both. 
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 24 2004, 05:23 AM
Isn't HMVV blood borne, I don't expect too many people there to have it.
Posted by: toturi Jan 24 2004, 05:37 AM
Well, according to the SRComp, wetwork is 5000:nuyen: so... 20*5000 = 100000:nuyen:.
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 24 2004, 05:37 AM
| QUOTE (Velocity) |
| First off, great idea--I only hope my players haven't read this thread. I do have a critical question though: what are the locals doing about this infection, aside from waiting fo the PCs? I mean, surely someone's noticed something going on here. Are there any medical professionals or Awakened in the village? What about a regular person who's reasonably perceptive? Maybe the local spirits notice something's up and manifest to alert the mundane locals... However it happens, I find it hard to believe that no-one notices anything amiss until the hard-asses from the big city show up to clean house. Otherwise, I'm really digging the idea--good on ya both. |
Hey, good point Velocity, and thanks for help fleshing out the run.
My thoughts on the village.
First of all, the Village is very isolated. They are up in the mountains, no good roads lead there, and they should be a 'back to nature' type of village that shuns alot of modern tech (no phones, not alot of cars ect).
The runners should show up at the village only a day or two after the village was exposed to the virus.
I think the idea behind the normal HMHV Virus is that you turn in to a vampire, with a strong desire to feed off of the essence of 'normal' people, and this is what causes it to spread. With the Jenner strain, subjects have lost the ability to effectively drain essence, but not the desire to do so.
So, the infected runner who went back home (probably to a poor reception since he has rejected their way of life in favor of the Sprawl life) went to see his family. While there, he was overcome with the desire to feed, and attacked his family or neighbors. Being a capable shadowrunner with extra strength and immunity, it was probably easy for him to overpower and feed on a few people. He doesnt get the same satisfaction from feeding, so he doesnt feed off one person for long, and is soon overcome with desire to hunt again. This could be part of what makes the virus so dangerous, since the infected would want to go on a 'feeding spree' instead of being satisfied like normal vampires.
Not enough time has passed for the entire population to become infected, but maybe 5 - 10 have survived being attacked and carry the new strain. In the first stages, they can control the temptation to feed, and can be reasoned with (and conviced to go into Stasis), but the original feeder, the runner from seattle, is so far gone he has run away into the woods, returning frequently to feed. He will have to be tracked down and killed (since there is no hope for him).
Perhaps the later stages of the disease (that last no more than 6 days because most people dont have more than 6 essence (none that I can think of)) cause serious deformation of the body, and the mind. This could provide a dramatic and interesting encounter with the wild deeply infected runner. Perhaps with the aid of his close family he could be brought back to reality and conviced (and a tastey karma award given for this success).
Tell me your ideas...keep the info flowing my fellow GMs.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 05:49 AM
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Well, according to the SRComp, wetwork is 5000 so... 20*5000 = 100000 . |
I think using common sense is allowed. Unless there was an "invisible smiley" there... Killing some people is easier than killing others, and people are willing to pay more for killing some people than they are for killing others.
DK: That looks really good. I'm so tired I can't even think of anything to give feedback on.
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 24 2004, 05:50 AM
| QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 24 2004, 12:37 AM) |
| Well, according to the SRComp, wetwork is 5000:nuyen: so... 20*5000 = 100000:nuyen:. |
Bah! Regular wetwork assumes a different challenge and different setup for each job. I think multiple jobs are like soda: You buy 1 mt. Dew for 50c, but if you get a 24pack you only pay like 30cents per soda.
Also, there is a definate horror factor here that really throws the pay scale off. Think about what they are asking you to do: Go murder entire families without a reason (they dont tell about the strain, the shaman does), killing children and elderly alike. Many wont take the job, which raises the price a bit.
For my group, the scientists will probably just offer like 25 thou total for the whole group (maybe 50 if they are l337 runners) and access to the delta grade clinic (which is worth a drekload more than 100k). Remember, the scientists are trying to cover up this incedent, not only so the media doesnt find out, but so that Shiawase doesnt find out, so they dont have financial backing from Shiawase. They also already had to pay for a detective, so the vacation and christmas money they scrapped together is probably not abundant.
Posted by: toturi Jan 24 2004, 05:51 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) | ||
I think using common sense is allowed. Unless there was an "invisible smiley" there... Killing some people is easier than killing others, and people are willing to pay more for killing some people than they are for killing others. DK: That looks really good. I'm so tired I can't even think of anything to give feedback on. |
Oh you mean the Josef Stalin brand of common sense? The one that says one death is a tragedy, one million a statistic?
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 24 2004, 05:57 AM
Now we're cooking with gas or at least what could have been our paychecks 
If the PCs come into town in a car, you may want to have the 'only road into town' be blocked by a landslide (with maybe a the bodies of a chewed up utility crew). This means that the PCs will have to hoof it into town (it also prevents them froms taking one look at the place and then driving away. Make the town around 30min to 1 hour walk past the land slide, so any running back to the car can be an extended chase scene.
If they are comming in in some else's chopper or LAV have then agree on the time that the chopper will come back (so they'll need to survive until then).
If the PCs have a drone rigger, they may try for a high recon or similar of the town (or an astral one). Be sure to think up what they will see.
Maybe make them deal with one or two crazies first (and see if you can get them to shoot at anything that moves, even if they had earlier made the 'moral' choice) This way, when they meet the people who are still in control of themselves, the meeting will be that much more tense. Notice that any surviors might be pretty close to shooting anything that moves too.
Don't forget to add a level of background count or 2 (recent mass murder).
If you feel the characters are having too easy a time (or you are saving the people and the gun bunnies are unhappy), you can throw in some infected animal life (dogs, cats, mountain lions, bears).
If you PCs fly (via levitate, or drones) make sure you have some ideas to threaten them (otherwise, it will just be: hover over town, cut yourself a bit to draw out the crazies, then gun them down. All from safely 100 feet up). Maybe they get super-leaping too?
Posted by: Jason Farlander Jan 24 2004, 05:59 AM
I... actually quite like this run idea. I think I will steal it in large part as well... with a few minor modifications. Good job. Give yourself a star.
As for getting the PC's to accept the run if they are in any way moralistic, you could simply have the person hiring them say that the village is the source of a new dangerous viral outbreak, and that they would like it quietly contained for X . That way even morally-minded characters might think theyre doing more or less the right thing by protecting others from infection.... and those morally minded characters would then be more inclined to listen to the owl spirit.
You could even have the scientists offer the runners a *vaccine* that *only works if administered 3 days before infection* This "vaccine" could be whatever they want, be it nothing at all (if youre a nice GM) to a dose of carcerands/Ebola Plus (if youre a particularly mean, evil GM).
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 06:11 AM
With Bob's and Jason's addition, this run just seems to perfect to be true! (Or maybe I'm getting too damn tired to think...)
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Oh you mean the Josef Stalin brand of common sense? The one that says one death is a tragedy, one million a statistic? |
I mean the kind of common sense where getting a bunch of gangers to off 2 dozen street-kids in modern Brazil wouldn't be worth $100,000. Killing 20-30 civvies is really fucking easy (the HMHVV makes it harder, but it's still a lot easier than beating 20-30 secguards), and the world is chock full of sociopaths who will gladly do it for less than 100,000. Still, 100,000 (or even quite a lot more, depending on how hard you make the village "encounter" for the team) for this particular run is certainly justified.
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 24 2004, 06:13 AM
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| Don't forget to sell the bodies to a dog food company as 'raw materials'. |
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| you feel the characters are having too easy a time (or you are saving the people and the gun bunnies are unhappy), you can throw in some infected animal life (dogs, cats, mountain lions, bears). |
I think Bob has an animal fetish
Hmm...selling the chunks for dog food...I smell a Vampire Dog epidemic coming!
Enchanted wildlife is a neat Idea, a few points
As with vampirsm, they are attracted naturally to Metahumans, so they probably wont hunt down animals, but maybe a dead infected person could be fed on.
Infected animals raises a containment issue....how do you kill all the wildlife, short of Napalm?
On the other hand, most animals kill their prey, so they wont spread it too much.
As for How runners get to the town, I was thinking they would be dropped off by copter (although if they choose the moral option, the chopper may not want to pickup infected and bring them back for freezing. Runners may have to take the chopper hostage on the return trip...fun fun fun!)
Great feedback, keep dishin it you Shadow-dwelling action junkies!
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 24 2004, 06:16 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) | ||
With Bob's and Jason's addition, this run just seems to perfect to be true! (Or maybe I'm getting too damn tired to think...)
I mean the kind of common sense where getting a bunch of gangers to off 2 dozen street-kids in modern Brazil wouldn't be worth $100,000. Killing 20-30 civvies is really fucking easy (the HMHVV makes it harder, but it's still a lot easier than beating 20-30 secguards), and the world is chock full of sociopaths who will gladly do it for less than 100,000. Still, 100,000 (or even quite a lot more, depending on how hard you make the village "encounter" for the team) for this particular run is certainly justified. |
100,000 AND access to Delta clinic...i dont think so. And the scientists arent going to trust their careers (maybe their lives) to a group of gangers. They want professionals who arent going to fail, or succeed but start rumors that could get Shiawase to start an internal investigation.
My thoughts on pay remain:
--For my group, the scientists will probably just offer like 25 thou total for the whole group (maybe 50 if they are l337 runners) and access to the delta grade clinic (which is worth a drekload more than 100k). Remember, the scientists are trying to cover up this incedent, not only so the media doesnt find out, but so that Shiawase doesnt find out, so they dont have financial backing from Shiawase. They also already had to pay for a detective, so the vacation and christmas money they scrapped together is probably not abundant.--
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 06:18 AM
| QUOTE (DamienKnight) |
| Infected animals raises a containment issue....how do you kill all the wildlife, short of Napalm? |
Napalm sucks. I'd put my money on nerve gases (assuming those are effective against HMHVV infected life forms). The name HMHVV does imply that it's (meta)human specific, however, so I'm guessing that idea won't work too well. I'm not very knowledgeable about the virus though.
[Edit]Okay, perhaps I should have used a term like "arguable" instead of "justified"... I'll handle the pay differently in my game anyway, so I'll refrain from commenting on that further.[/Edit]
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 24 2004, 06:25 AM
Oops, what if our enterprising teams wants to 'roll in a couple canisters on CN-20 and nerve gas the whole nest?'. Thay wouldn't be too much of a run. Hmm.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 06:30 AM
If they managed to get their hands on enough of the stuff and a way to use it effectively, I wouldn't mind. Perhaps not a whole lot of karma though...
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 24 2004, 06:51 AM
I'd imagine it would be:
summon great form sky spirit to control wind.
Deploy gas via smokescreen generating drone upwind of town.
Wait...
Roll in and clean up.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 06:54 AM
The government of whatever country this is done in would suddenly generate a lot of interest in the particular spot of real-estate... I can't think of any good reasons why that wouldn't work though. If the runner team really doesn't care about destroying just about all forms of life withing a few (dozen?) square miles, and the fact that it'll be really high profile. Even more high than just going in with guns blazing would've been.
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 24 2004, 06:56 AM
Yep, I just seem to be bloody minded today and am itching to kill 20 or 30 people. 
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 24 2004, 08:13 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Napalm sucks. I'd put my money on nerve gases (assuming those are effective against HMHVV infected life forms). The name HMHVV does imply that it's (meta)human specific, however, so I'm guessing that idea won't work too well. |
Damn good point. Human-MetaHuman Vampiric Virus...probably wouldnt work on animals...but maybe have an effect on awakened creatures.
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| The government of whatever country this is done in would suddenly generate a lot of interest in the particular spot of real-estate |
I think this rules out mass destruction. The scientists would probably restrict the runners to forms of death that wont attract much attention.
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 24 2004, 09:35 AM
There aren't that many ways you can kill 20-30 people without attracting much attention. But that's OK, makes the team think more.
To attract minimum attention, would the best approach be to leave no clear evidence of the runner team having been there (which makes killing them pretty darn tricky), and then making the corpses disappear completely? A few barrels of some good corrosive substance and then dump the chemical/human mixture into a nearby lake or something. Make sure to clean up any clues that might lead people to suspect something HMHVV-related.
It'll still attract attention once everyone figures out that a small village has suddenly gone missing, but this might take a while, and they should optimally not have any clues about the involvement of the runner team or the lab/firm in question.
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 24 2004, 06:54 PM
Making the slaughter not attract much attention should be a good challenge for the team. There are several ways they might want to play it, and giving them hints may be in order.
They are dealing with primitive native americans, maybe a good ghost story would serve them well. They could ditch the bodies and maybe carve in some Sioux symbols of some totem, and make people think that a spirit got angry at them.
Maybe they could just leave a few mauled bodies behind and let everyone assume it was awakened creatures that did it.
I think burning the whole place down or blowing it up would attract too much immediate attention from NAN forces, so have the scientists discourage this.
It shouldnt be too hard though, seeing as this is a remote location without any easy access except for choppers (which arent cheap to fly into the mountains, we arent talking taxi fare prices).
Maybe the need to dispose of bodies could be the trick a group that chooses the moral option needs. They tell the scientists they will need two choppers to pick them up when they are done so they can remove the bodies from the site, and when the choppers come, they could have the uninfected hide, and have the infected pretend to be dead so they can be transported back for cryogenic stasis.
Posted by: Velocity Jan 25 2004, 01:45 AM
What's stopping the team's resident Awakened PC from assensing a few villagers and figuring everything out real quick? I mean, if there aren't any Awakened PCs, then you've got a nifty little pressure cooker of paranoia, mayhem and desperation cooked up, à la Resident Evil or The Thing. If there is someone with the team who's capable of scanning auras (and lets's face it, every good shadowrunning team has one), wouldn't that take away much of the mystery and terror?
| QUOTE |
| DamienKnight wrote: They are dealing with primitive native americans, maybe a good ghost story would serve them well. |
Woah there, white boy. While I'm sure you didn't mean to imply or suggest any neo-colonial condescension there, your words sound awfully patronizing. Ignoring the vast problems with using a word like "primitive" to refer to a culture significantly older than your own, these are 21st-century Native Americans we're talking about. Even with the post-Great Ghost Dance "back to Gaia" movement, these are technologically savvy, intelligent people. Hell, the Amish have their http://www.amish.net/ in the here and now--so check your assumptions, please.
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 25 2004, 07:13 AM
| QUOTE (Velocity @ Jan 24 2004, 08:45 PM) | ||
What's stopping the team's resident Awakened PC from assensing a few villagers and figuring everything out real quick? I mean, if there aren't any Awakened PCs, then you've got a nifty little pressure cooker of paranoia, mayhem and desperation cooked up, à la Resident Evil or The Thing. If there is someone with the team who's capable of scanning auras (and lets's face it, every good shadowrunning team has one), wouldn't that take away much of the mystery and terror?
Woah there, white boy. While I'm sure you didn't mean to imply or suggest any neo-colonial condescension there, your words sound awfully patronizing. Ignoring the vast problems with using a word like "primitive" to refer to a culture significantly older than your own, these are 21st-century Native Americans we're talking about. Even with the post-Great Ghost Dance "back to Gaia" movement, these are technologically savvy, intelligent people. Hell, the Amish have their http://www.amish.net/ in the here and now--so check your assumptions, please. |
Hey Velocity, I think you need to SLOW down buddy.
The main focus of this run is not mystery. If all goes well with the astral quest, they are going to know everything before they ever see a Jenner -strained Vampire.
Before saying anything else, I would like to say that Joker has visible Cherokee heritage, and my Grandfather was married to a full blooded Sioux.
Now, you paranoid RUDE unobservant self-righteous mother-fragger. Calling me a white boy (when you dont know drek about me) and taking my words out of context is very lame, and quite offensive.
To one of your first questions I answered:
| QUOTE (DamienKnight) |
| First of all, the Village is very isolated. They are up in the mountains, no good roads lead there, and they should be a 'back to nature' type of village that shuns alot of modern tech (no phones, not alot of cars ect). |
These native americans are not modern native americans. I think I stated that quite clearly. If you need me to reiterate, they 'shun alot of modern tech (no phones, not alot of cars ect)'. They are comparable to Amish people in America.
Now why would they shun tech unless they had some sort of religious reasons to do so. I know a bit more than just the Spaghetti Western view of Native Americans, and know that much of Native American beliefs revolve around spirits (of nature, of their acestors, ect).
Maybe you should think about what you type, before you try and get your self off by venting some obviously pent up racial agression.
The main focus of this run is the Moral decision, with a good plot to drive it. I appreciate the attempt to find flaws in my story, I DONT APPRECIATE being called a 'white boy' followed by lame accusations of a distorted perspective on Native American Culture.
Posted by: Digital Heroin Jan 25 2004, 07:41 AM
Here's a question... what time of year's the run at?
Posted by: Phaeton Jan 25 2004, 08:10 AM
| QUOTE (k1tsune) |
| Actually, I used this name before I ever played that... Name of my first Shadowrun character, who I still play in Kagetenshi's online game (SOTSW). |
Hey, k1t. Is there still room in that? And how is it, out of curiousity?
Sorry to deviate...After I have this question answered, you may return to your regularly scheduled topic.
Posted by: OurTeam Jan 25 2004, 08:55 AM
Joker9125, I think the scientists have to inform the Shadowrunners that the target and his village are likely infected with something. If they don't inform the runners, they should know that one or more runners is likely to leave infected and spread it further. And that angry runners might come seeking them afterwards.
Most shadowrunner teams are likely to take a job of preventing the outbreak of a terrible infectious disease, without thinking of it as wetwork. The scientists should give advice on protective gear to wear, and not to stand down-wind during the burning of the infected bodies. The moral dilemma still exists, and it's a good run.
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 25 2004, 09:04 AM
Hmm, some other commentary:
What if the PCs say no to the job (of the killin') I assume that the owl shaman will contact them afterward, but how does he know the right town to go to?
How are they going to keep from being chewed on during the chopper ride out? Maybe KO the people?
If the PCs provide 'their own' chopper (as opposed to one being supplied by the scientists) then they probably won't have too much trouble getting the chopper to carry some more people. However, the chopper might not be able to carry 10 people and the team all at once. (Sheep, wolf, lettuce, river 
)
Personally, I'd probably work on the choice a bit more, so that it's not the good and the evil choice. That tends to make choosing a bit too easy. The good choice with no reward and the not as good choice with a reward is the sort of thing that tends to make people pause.
Posted by: mfb Jan 25 2004, 02:25 PM
bah. as The Terminus Experiment teaches us, even a strain of vampirism which has no negative side effects--no need for bloodsuckin', no allergy to sunlight, etcetera--turns its hosts into undead spawns of satan which must be murderized at all cost.
stupid-ass book.
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 25 2004, 08:32 PM
| QUOTE (OurTeam) |
| Joker9125, I think the scientists have to inform the Shadowrunners that the target and his village are likely infected with something. If they don't inform the runners, they should know that one or more runners is likely to leave infected and spread it further. And that angry runners might come seeking them afterwards. Most shadowrunner teams are likely to take a job of preventing the outbreak of a terrible infectious disease, without thinking of it as wetwork. The scientists should give advice on protective gear to wear, and not to stand down-wind during the burning of the infected bodies. The moral dilemma still exists, and it's a good run. |
Of course the scientist will tell the team that they are going to be facing contagious victims. but they will also tell them that it is a blood borne pathogen and breathing the same air as them or burning the bodies will not infect them. As far as infection during combat goes they will just simply have to smart enough not to get bitten.
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 25 2004, 08:40 PM
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| What if the PCs say no to the job (of the killin') I assume that the owl shaman will contact them afterward, but how does he know the right town to go to? |
If the PCs turn down the job, the spirit will still contact them. How does it know where they are? As stated in the first post, the free spirit was sent to spy on the scientists, then to plead with them, then finally to get the players to go on an astral quest. The spirit watched the scientists and got the info.
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| How are they going to keep from being chewed on during the chopper ride out? Maybe KO the people? |
Well, the newly infected are not brain dead zombies yet. The original runner who contracted it was mentally still 'normal' until about 2 days after he was infected (long enough for him to realize something was wrong with him, and arrange to go home for a short visit). Although the original infected runner is now too far along, the villagers are still in the early stages, so they are at their strongest, both essence (therefore strength and immunity wise) and mentally. They can be reasoned with.
If the negotiations fail, yeah, a good stun spell would do nicely.
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| If the PCs provide 'their own' chopper (as opposed to one being supplied by the scientists) then they probably won't have too much trouble getting the chopper to carry some more people. However, the chopper might not be able to carry 10 people and the team all at once. (Sheep, wolf, lettuce, river ) |
I think I have already addressed this:
| QUOTE (DamienKnight) |
| Maybe the need to dispose of bodies could be the trick a group that chooses the moral option needs. They tell the scientists they will need two choppers to pick them up when they are done so they can remove the bodies from the site, and when the choppers come, they could have the uninfected hide, and have the infected pretend to be dead so they can be transported back for cryogenic stasis. |
2 choppers if they plan well
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| Personally, I'd probably work on the choice a bit more, so that it's not the good and the evil choice. That tends to make choosing a bit too easy. The good choice with no reward and the not as good choice with a reward is the sort of thing that tends to make people pause. |
I am a bit confused about this statement. You say we need to work on the choice more by making the evil choice have a reward and the good one have no reward? I think we have already done this:
Kill them all, get 50,000 nuyen and access to clinic
Save them all and get a warm fuzzy feeling.
Maybe I misunderstood your statement. If your saying that is too obvious, we could provide a reward for choosing good, but I think that makes it too easy to choose.
I hope im not coming off as defensive. I want everyone to point out any holes in the story, it just seems like these problems have already been addressed. I still appreciate the feedback, and the more I have to think about this plot, the more complex it grows in my mind. Thanks for all the help.
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 25 2004, 09:38 PM
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| Hey, k1t. Is there still room in that? And how is it, out of curiousity? |
It's great... when we play. I think we're always looking for new players... But we haven't been active lately due to Jon (Kagetenshi) secluding himself away from his blessed Internet.
Posted by: Phaeton Jan 25 2004, 10:17 PM
Hmm...Does it have a website?
Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 25 2004, 10:44 PM
| QUOTE (DamienKnight) |
| You say we need to work on the choice more by making the evil choice have a reward and the good one have no reward? |
I think what Bob's saying is that the "evil" choice should be made to be/appear less "evil" and more "not so good".
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 26 2004, 03:04 AM
Yep, the evil choice is still 'Now eat these kittens!'. Something that 'not-so good' with a reward is usually the harder choice to make.
hehehe, wonderful flavor text to throw in, squatters in barrens playing poker for kittens. (hey, a man's gottan eat). Will the characters rush to the rescue?
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 26 2004, 03:32 AM
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| Yep, the evil choice is still 'Now eat these kittens!'. Something that 'not-so good' with a reward is usually the harder choice to make. hehehe, wonderful flavor text to throw in, squatters in barrens playing poker for kittens. (hey, a man's gottan eat). Will the characters rush to the rescue? |
I'd do that, if I didn't have an Awakened Cat adept on the team. Hm. Hell, maybe I still will. Make him recognize the kittens? That would be entirely too sadistic. I'm not that sadistic, am I?
*Ponders*
Oh wait. I am.
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 26 2004, 03:41 AM
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) | ||
I think what Bob's saying is that the "evil" choice should be made to be/appear less "evil" and more "not so good". |
The whole point of this run is about a moral choice between an evil choice with a big reward(namely the delta clinic access) and a good choice with no reward (except for a warm fuzzy feeling). now if you make the evil choice only moderately bad then what would be their excuse for passing up the delta grade clinic and the
?
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 26 2004, 03:41 AM
Joker hit the nail on the head. It has to be good vs evil, not good vs not so good.
Also, I think killing all of the villagers is pretty easy to justify--they are mostly infected and could possibly cause a plague that could cost thousands of lives.
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 26 2004, 04:27 AM
Bacuase it's much more fun to have:
not-so good, not-so good, .... , 'It's only a little worse than I've done before' followed by a "my god, what have I become?'
compared to:
really bad, really bad, really bad ('Muhahha, I'm so evil')
----
If all moral choices were easy, then so much time wouldn't have been spent thinking about it.
Here's one of the classic experiments : http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/milgram_obedience_authority.html. You can also try Eichmann in Jerusalem
Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 26 2004, 04:47 AM
Could you elaborate bob, Im not quite getting what your saying.
Posted by: Fix-it Jan 26 2004, 04:53 AM
His point is, that if you make one choice really evil, then the players will almost always choose it, because "hehehe... we're so evil. and EVIL IS KOOL!!!"
instead of actually playing in-character, and choosing the path thier characters would choose
Posted by: Jason Farlander Jan 26 2004, 05:06 AM
I *think* I am agreeing with Crusher Bob when I say that its more interesting to engineer a gradual descent into player corruption than to always provide them with obvious, black and white choices about good and evil. I, for one, would much rather portray the initial offer in a significantly less obviously evil light. Yes, I understand that it makes the spirit's offer much less appealing... but thats kinda the point. It's up to the players to decide that it is worthwhile to their characters to know that theyre doing the right thing... not the GM.
Posted by: Solidcobra Jan 26 2004, 02:37 PM
1: This run sounds sweet!
i'm gonna use it myself!
2: K1tsune, your sig only applies to females with cat shaman lovers, right?
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 26 2004, 05:46 PM
| QUOTE (Fix-it) |
| His point is, that if you make one choice really evil, then the players will almost always choose it, because "hehehe... we're so evil. and EVIL IS KOOL!!!" instead of actually playing in-character, and choosing the path thier characters would choose |
I think Fix It has a good point but leaves out one very important factor. That all depends on the groupeyour running. The group Damienknight and I are running (well he is the head GM i just like to from time to time) are very moral people, but many of them are playing immoral characters. They have killed each other, and even unneccessarily slaughtered helpless gangers, and we are anxious to see how far they will take it. Our group has already had a gradual slide towards evil, and this is basically the breaking point. If the players stay in Character, this will be a hard decision for them. I would probably even reward evil characters for choosing poorly with roleplaying karma (altho they lose karma for doing horrific things). If you want to taylor this choice between good and evil to fit your group then by all mean go ahead I encourage it, but the run we have laid out fits our group perfectly.
Posted by: Joker9125 Jan 26 2004, 05:46 PM
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 26 2004, 06:53 PM
| QUOTE (Phaeton @ Jan 25 2004, 03:10 AM) | ||
Hey, k1t. Is there still room in that? And how is it, out of curiousity? Sorry to deviate...After I have this question answered, you may return to your regularly scheduled topic. |
There's still room, the website is http://www.sotsw.net, and I'll be bringing it back up to speed as soon as I can work out enough of the crud in my personal life right now to be productive. Many apologies to everyone already in the game waiting on me.
As for the topic of the thread, I had an idea like this a while back... only instead of a strain of HMHVV, the place was infected with Dread Iotas. The mission was to kill everyone in the village and torch the entire place, burning EVERYTHING within about fifty meters, maybe more. Woe betide the runners if they so much as stop in the village for a drink before burning the place down
~J
Posted by: k1tsune Jan 26 2004, 10:03 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| As for the topic of the thread, I had an idea like this a while back... only instead of a strain of HMHVV, the place was infected with Dread Iotas. The mission was to kill everyone in the village and torch the entire place, burning EVERYTHING within about fifty meters, maybe more. Woe betide the runners if they so much as stop in the village for a drink before burning the place down |
You're a bastard.
You people see why I fear playing with him as the GM?!
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 27 2004, 12:27 AM
Now I just wait a few years until you've forgotten this thread...
~J
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