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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ DNI Created?

Posted by: Moonstone Spider Jan 24 2004, 10:00 PM

This is interesting. I was reading Popular Science today in the Library. Now I don't have the article right here in front of me so I might mistake a name or two but here's the gist of it:

At Duke University they've devised a new kind of probe with a flexible tip capable of reading a single neuron without damaging the brain. With a large number of these implanted in the brain, they can scan patterns and control machinery with the brain alone.

They've got rats which are now capable of activating their feeder merely by thinking about it, and in their greatest triumph so far, a monkey which can operate mechanical arms with it's brain alone by watching a video screen and moving the cursor around by thinking. The article is already talking about cyberlimbs controlled by this DNI (It frankly sounds like a VCR 0 to me) for the crippled, but stress that of course this is still developmental, years of study, yada yada. They want to reduce the number of probes actually in the brain, and if possible develope a network of external probes that can slip over the head and remove the need for surgury ('Trodes anyone?). Even so this is interesting stuff from a Shadowrun perspective.

Posted by: Jr. Woodchuck Jan 24 2004, 10:05 PM

Another example of life imitateing Shadowrun.

When my buddy was in medical school he told me about how people are working on the nervous system and replaceing it with wires in an attempt to control the flexing of muscle fibers. Wired reflexes in its earliest of stages

Posted by: Phaeton Jan 25 2004, 12:35 AM

I'm happy with my meatbod. I don't need all sorts of ridiculous, biorhythmically invasive, expensive toys. So...

Posted by: sir fwank Jan 25 2004, 12:49 AM

skillwires is my #1 cyberware want. what else could i possibly need.

Posted by: Slamm-O Jan 25 2004, 12:59 AM

but if you became crippled, wouldnt it be nice to live a world where they could rebuild you? maybe even make you, dare i say it, better....?

Posted by: Phaeton Jan 25 2004, 01:05 AM

To quote Sahandrian...

"We...Have the technology. We just forgot where we put it."

Posted by: Playing Games Jan 25 2004, 01:05 AM

I want it so when I stuper human things a bad sound clip is played!

Posted by: Phaeton Jan 25 2004, 01:07 AM

LMFAO!

Posted by: Moonstone Spider Jan 25 2004, 02:43 AM

This doesn't look like skillwires, there's no system to write to the brain, just read from it. We could get cyberlimbs, and possibly stuff like the oral dart or whip out of this but I don't see a datajack, skillwires, or VCRs without some way to send information back to the brain directly.

Posted by: Lucyfersam Jan 25 2004, 07:50 AM

this system is really nothing like skill wires, it's is closer to a very primitive rigging system or control system for cyberlimbs. It is still at quite a primitive system (relitive to SR, it is amazing relative to modern tech), it allows for relatively rough control of a robotic arm, with no neural sensory feedback (the feedback system is purely visual, a video display of the arm because the physical presence of the arm can scare the animal). The monkey/arm system was actually pointed out here a month or two ago as well. Within the next few decades there is a significant chance of seeing this system develop into what we think of as cyberware, with both neural input and output. I'll stop now as no one probably wants high detail descriptions of how this system works.

Posted by: sir fwank Jan 25 2004, 04:12 PM

sheesh guys, just dreamin.
i know its not skillwires, i'm just saying whats going on my list of implants.

Posted by: GoldenAri Jan 25 2004, 04:24 PM

QUOTE

I don't need all sorts of ridiculous, biorhythmically invasive, expensive toys. So...

So I guess in the next decade or two we will be asking the question "Just how much cyberware can a human handle, and What are the side effects?"

Posted by: Lilt Jan 25 2004, 04:46 PM

I could see people needing psychological screening before having some form of enhancing cyberware installed, although replacements/corrections for biological faults would be available through healthcare plans.

There is also the question of wether genuine CyberLimbs would ever become common compared to the possibility of 'meaty' alternatives. If we can connect the nerves back up correctly for a CyberArm then we should be able to do real arms, the real issue is wether CyberLimbs will ever become better than MeatLimbs, SuperMeatLimbs (Genetically engineered meatlimbs), or some form of hybrid (Cyber Muscle Aug+Bone-Lacing on a Normal or SuperMeatLimb).

Posted by: hobgoblin Jan 25 2004, 04:51 PM

there is just one small problem with this, tactile feedback. before i get mylsef a cyberarm i want to be sure that i can feel when im starting to apply force to the outside of a egg. but i guess that they will crack that sooner or later to

allso, a skillwire system does not write to the brain, the activesoft version have its own set of wireing that controls your every move and knowsoft is just there until you remove the chip (like having a refence book at hand merly by thinking about it and with a very good index)...

Posted by: Lucyfersam Jan 25 2004, 09:28 PM

1. Skillwires do need bi directional interaction with the brain, and a fairly complex one at that, to try to overcome the effect of "holy shit, my body is doing something but I really don't know what" and reflexivly trying to stop yourself from doing it. It would be an interesting system to work out.

2 While I don't see it as likely there is some sort of Essence equivelent for how much machine ware people will be able to implant, there will likely come a practicle limit on brain interfacing for non limbs (which I think may be better served by spinal interfaces than cortex), as there are only so many neurons in the brain and they are all being used for something, so the more you subvert to other uses the less there are for their intended function the more potential there will be for damage to those intended functions. All in all this means that a rigger interface and cyberlimbs will likely be the earliest functionally developed with very limited sensory feedback (as the majority of research so far has been dedicated to output rather than input devices). Eventually as sensory input research advances there will be higher quality systems for rigging and limbs, as well as the possibility of datajacks (actually one of the most complicated pieces of brain ware).

The field is rapidly growing, and while limb replacements may end up better off with flesh replacements, there will likely be great uses and advancements in brain machine interfaces in the coming years.

Posted by: snowRaven Jan 25 2004, 11:48 PM

QUOTE (hobgoblin)

allso, a skillwire system does not write to the brain, the activesoft version have its own set of wireing that controls your every move and knowsoft is just there until you remove the chip (like having a refence book at hand merly by thinking about it and with a very good index)...

Actually, they have had some success with those type of sensors on robotic arms - no reason why that cannot be incorporated into a cyberarm. Maybe -you- won't feel when you apply just the right amount of force, but the arm itself can cut off your movement before you crush the egg. Of course, the next problem lies in determining the preset levels of pressure that will allow you to operate in everyday situations without dropping some things, crushing others, and having your hand open at inapproperiate times...

Some basic tactile sense is also present as long as you attach the 'cyberarm' to the bone of the arm - for some people, surprising levels of tactile information can be discerned just through that basic, non-neural connection.

Posted by: 252 Jan 26 2004, 02:09 AM

I think someone was mentioning how arms couldn't be grafted back onto people. As far as I know, they can. I thought this was a common knowledge thing so I don't have any articles to reference. I guess I will try to find some if you don't believe me.