Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Help needed from gods of rigging plz

Posted by: boodah Jan 26 2004, 03:22 PM

Im looking to make a bike that uses a turbine to spin a generator to power the wheels, but cant find any information on generators.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Posted by: Zimbabwean Aardvark Jan 26 2004, 03:54 PM

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for, but the power plant table on pg. 194 of Rigger 3 might help.

Posted by: Pthgar Jan 26 2004, 04:25 PM

boodah, is that a bike in reality? I can't see why it would exist as it would be more effecient to turn the wheels direclty from the turbine (I assume you mean gas turbine). I suppose it could be a hybrid. Admittadly, I know next to nothing about bikes, I'm just curious.

Posted by: boodah Jan 26 2004, 04:41 PM

well the bike in question is two wheel drive, using a modified version of accelerate to spin the tires. the reason behind the turbine is for an easily renewable source of power for the wheels (top of the tank with #2 diesel or jetfuel). Im trying to find out how much power a very high rpm generator can put out so i can figure out the magnetic output of a normal coil will be so i can then calculate the acceleration and top speed of the bike.

by the way the bike has been built in game, im just trying to flesh it out with stats before anchoring.

Posted by: Lilt Jan 26 2004, 05:25 PM

OK. I assume it's experamental stuff so it'd be extremely expencive, and there are no stats for it in the canon rules. You could, however, abstract from the EFC bike power plants in comparisson with the power-plants that have entries in both domains.

Compared to an EFC bike, I'd say same load, *1.25 starting speed, *2 max speed, *1.5 start&max accel, Signature=1, starting fuel code = 20 liters (how many liters of fuel on a standard bike according to the gasoline bikes section), start economy stays the same, *1.25 max economy, DPs = experamental = very high.

(this was done by comparing with a wheeled APC and a jet turbine APC)

IE: the big limiting factor would be the fuel/economy thing. With max economy you have a max range of about 25km until you add more jet fuel at 50l/CF.

Posted by: Backgammon Jan 26 2004, 05:26 PM

If I undertand this correctly, you want make a bike and calculate it's stats in real life terms, and then transfer that to SR? That's usually not recommended, as SR and real world stats are often out of whack and you'll probly end up with a bike that is unbalanced.

Posted by: boodah Jan 27 2004, 08:40 PM

actually im trying to make this bike for shadowrun only.

As far as the fuel economy goes, this thing uses a turbine engine thats rather small; all it needs to do is turn a generator. Thank you for the input tho Lilt!

Also, this bike is being built to literally scare the crap out of anyone that rides it.
No, its not for me but for a phys adept.

Posted by: Backgammon Jan 27 2004, 11:33 PM

Hmm, still don't really understand what you want, but the rules for creating vehicules can be found in Rigger 3 as mentionned before.

Posted by: boodah Jan 28 2004, 12:01 AM

err...hows this:

two wheel drive bike modeled after the BMW in Akira.
It uses electromagnets to drive the wheels, and those magnets are enhanced by a form of the spell accelerate. What I need to know is how much power a generator connected to a turbine will put out so I can then calculate the amount of Gauss the magnets will put out, and therefore the horsepower and torque so that I might then be able to calculate the top speed and acceleration attributes of the bike in question.

-=stops to breathe=-

Posted by: IcyCool Jan 28 2004, 07:07 AM

QUOTE (boodah)

Oh, so you want the bike from Akira. I posted some Rigger 3 stats for it a while back. Should be plenty fast for what you want, and it even has an all electric variant.

[Edit]Yikes, must've been a really long time back. Anyone know how I can search the older forums?[/Edit]

[Edit2]Here you go, right from the old forums:

Dark Angel (Racer)

87,235

Body - 2
CF - 0
Handling - 0/3
Armor - 2
Autonav/Pilot - 0/-
Sensor/Sonar - 0/-
Seating - 1m

Gasoline
Load - 60
Speed - 353 (882.5) (423.6 km/hr, 263.2 m/h) (1059 km/h, 658 m/h)
Max Accel - 23
Sig - -1
Fuel Code - 40
Econ - 13.6

Smart Materials, Turbocharging 3, Nitrous Oxide Injectors (6), Drive-by-Wire 3, Runflats, Dual-Purpose tires

I couldn't really rationalize the Body 4 you have given your motorcycles (body 4 is the size equivalent of an SUV or truck). I'm not sure if I got the speed right, but for this style of bike, I think a chopper frame would be better. (I have an idea I'm working on for a body 3 version, which I'll post later).
******************************************************

Dark Angel (Chopper)
66,604

Body - 2
CF - 0
Handling - 1/3
Armor - 2
Autonav/Pilot - 0/-
Sensor/Sonar - 0/-
Seating - 2m

Gasoline
Load - 173
Speed - 277 m/turn N(692.5 m/turn) ((332.4 kph) (206.6 mph)) (N(831 kph) N(516.4 mph))
Accel - 14
Sig - -1
Fuel Code - 45
Max Econ - 11.9

Smart Materials, Turbocharging 3, Nitrous Oxide Injectors (6), Drive-by-Wire 3, Concealed Armor, Runflats, Dual-Purpose tires

This seemed a little closer to what you were going for, but still seemed a little fragile to me.
*************************************************

Chopper

60,334

Body - 2
CF - 0
Handling - 1/3
Armor - 4
Autonav/Pilot - 3/-
Sensor/Sonar - 1/-
Seating - 1m

Gasoline
Load - 116
Speed - 227 m/turn N(567.5 m/turn) ((272.4 kph) (169.3 mph)) (N(681 kph) N(423.7 mph))
Accel - 12
Sig - 1
Fuel Code - 45
Max Econ - 13.3

Smart Materials, Turbocharging 1, Nitrous Oxide Injectors (6), Drive-by-Wire 1, Concealed Armor, Runflats, Dual-Purpose tires, Anti-theft 3 with Shock system, Contigency Maneuver Controls (CMC) 3, Motorbike Gyro Stabilization Gear

I felt this one worked a little better, as the armor 4 would let it bounce light arms fire. I also included the CMC and Anti-theft system.
*******************************************************

Chopper

59,321

Body - 2
CF - 2
Handling - 1/3
Armor - 4
Autonav/Pilot - 3/-
Sensor/Sonar - 1/-
Seating - 1m

Electric Fuel Cell
Load - 123
Speed - 218 m/turn ((261.6 kph) (162.6 mph))
Accel - 12
Sig - 4
Fuel Code - 100
Max Econ - 1

Smart Materials, Engine Customization 3, Drive-by-Wire 1, Concealed Armor, Runflats (Dual-Purpose are part of the Drive-by-Wire system), Anti-theft 3 with Shock system, Contigency Maneuver Controls (CMC) 3, Motorbike Gyro Stabilization Gear

This is an electric fuel cell version of the one above.
******************************************************

Here's a couple of ideas I was toying around with:

Jetbike
Med. Vectored Thrust UAV

38,790

Body - 2
CF - 0
Handling - 4
Armor - 0
Autonav/Pilot - -/1
Sensor/Sonar - 0/-
Seating - 1b

Electric Fuel Cell
Load - 125
Speed - 220 m/turn ((264 kph) (164 mph))
Accel - 10
Sig - 8
Fuel Code - 200
Max Econ - .25

Remote Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation, Suncell Power (50 PF/h in sunlight)
*********************************************************

Heavy Jetbike
Large Vectored Thrust UAV

75,132

Body - 3
CF - 2
Handling - 4
Armor - 4
Autonav/Pilot - -/2
Sensor/Sonar - 1/-
Seating - 1b

Electric Fuel Cell
Load - 125
Speed - 240 m/turn ((288 kph) (179 mph))
Accel - 20
Sig - 6
Fuel Code - 200
Max Econ - .5

Remote Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation, Suncell Power (75 PF in sunlight), Concealed Armor
[/Edit2]

Posted by: OurTeam Jan 28 2004, 08:20 AM

You will waste power by using a turbine (rotating power) to drive a generator (producing electric power) to drive the wheels (rotating power). What you need is a gearbox (transmission) that takes the approximately 5000 rpm of the rotating power from the turbine and reduces it down to the approximately 1000 rpm of the wheels. All transmissions lose power to friction, but you won't lose as much as you would generating electricity as an intermediate form of power. It's as Pthgar said, a generator isn't needed.

Posted by: boodah Jan 28 2004, 12:14 PM

well most turbines spin up to 50-75k rpm. unless i want to blow up the generator, the gearbox is included.

Posted by: zephir Jan 29 2004, 09:33 AM

QUOTE (Icycool)

Jetbike
Med. Vectored Thrust UAV

[...]

(164 mph)

[...]

Suncell Power (50 PF/h in sunlight)

38,790nuyen

With a this bike for this cost, why wouldn't one see them all the time?

Posted by: Birdy Jan 29 2004, 01:08 PM

Side note:

Based on my experience with the semi-mobile diesel destruction system (aka M1 Abrahams) vs. The Battletank! (aka Leopard II) the turbine has a number of major problems:

Turbines have a relatively constant (and high) fuel consumption while normal engines can reduce their consumption by idling, using lower speeds etc.

Turbines are hot!

Small turbines have a lousy efficiency compared to small diesel/petrol engines

Turbines needs a vast amount of air

Michael

Posted by: IcyCool Jan 29 2004, 07:05 PM

QUOTE (zephir)

QUOTE (Icycool)

Jetbike
Med. Vectored Thrust UAV

[...]

(164 mph)

[...]

Suncell Power (50 PF/h in sunlight)

38,790nuyen

With a this bike for this cost, why wouldn't one see them all the time?

Good question. I made them purely for a Corp compound in the boonies, where they had a great deal of ground to patrol with relatively few guards. I would imagine the things keeping them out of the mainstream would be:

1. Requires the Vectored Thrust skill to operate (and they don't teach that in driver's education).

2. It's a flying crotch rocket. What insurance company in their right mind would insure it?

3. Since it does fly, said operator would probably need a pilot's license.

That's the reasoning I came up with anyway. Besides, I haven't had the opportunity to run that particular scenario (guards with jetbikes), so I haven't had to worry too much about players getting them.

Not to mention I actually enjoy creating vehicles with new Rigger Rules.

Posted by: OurTeam Jan 29 2004, 07:53 PM

I think the turbine acts like a gyroscope. Your bike will have trouble turning corners. And when you first start the turbine rotating clockwise the bike will flip over counter-clockwise a dozen times.

Posted by: boodah Jan 30 2004, 04:46 PM

hmmm... www.marineturbine.com has a jetbike that works rather well. its fast too.

Posted by: OurTeam Jan 30 2004, 04:58 PM

http://www.bikemenu.com/turbine.html, including Jay Leno, purchaser of one.
This http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_coll_leno/2001/8/recycled_jet_setter/ in Popular Mechanics describes the technology of putting a used helicopter turbine engine in a motorbike.

Posted by: boodah Jan 30 2004, 05:51 PM

Thanks OT, I love that bike