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Posted by: Johnny Demonic Jan 27 2004, 06:52 AM

Any information on what size round all these guns use? I mean is it a 9mm, 44 caliber, etc...? I know Gurps and CP are big nazis on telling you what round they take and everything else. I guess being familiar with those systems leaves me scratching my head going "huh?" way too much.

Posted by: OurTeam Jan 27 2004, 06:56 AM

In game, we just talk about ammo being for a "Light Pistol", "Heavy Pistol", "SMG", etc.

We treat the ammo as interchangeable between guns in the same category. On your character sheet you might record "90 rounds normal SMG ammo", for example. It would work for any SMG unless your SMG description indicated it took special ammo.

Posted by: Arethusa Jan 27 2004, 06:57 AM

No. No. Kill it now.

SR doesn't have calibers, and it has led to more massive confusion than this abstraction bullshit was ever supposed to circumvent. Raygun's written some http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/ introducing a rather healthy amount of realism, however. Feel free to give those a try.

Out of curiosity, has anyone rules that machine pistols use light pistol ammo, or, for that matter, that SMGs use heavy pistol ammo?

Posted by: Connor Jan 27 2004, 06:59 AM

SR ammo is pretty much abstracted to the point of being caliber-less. If you're looking for some good houserules that take caliber, etc. into account and such things you should check out Raygun's site.

Posted by: Jason Farlander Jan 27 2004, 07:02 AM

Shadowrun tends to be rather abstract about details such as those. If you want firearms rules that are more grounded in reality than the canon SR rules, check out http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/ I don't personally use the rules on that site, though I am impressed by them.

Edit: heh... couple of posts slipped by while I was doublechecking that link, saying essentially the same thing.

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 27 2004, 08:21 AM

I'm too late.

I would've loved to tell you that all Hold-Outs fire .44 Remington Magnum, Light Pistols fire .440 Cor-Bon Magnum, Heavy Pistols fire .50 Beowulf, Assault Rifles fire .338 Lapua Magnum, Sporting Rifles fire .50 BMG, Sniper Rifles fire 20x139mm and Assault Cannons fire 35x228mm.

That would rock!

Posted by: Liquid_Obsidian Jan 27 2004, 10:01 AM

Austere and what in what you say falls nto realism ? not every single type of weapon fires only one kinda ammo , maybe the tailor made weapons would fire the on you says

Liquid
Tailor weapon user

Posted by: Fortune Jan 27 2004, 10:49 AM

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 27 2004, 01:12 PM

No I wasn't!

Oh, dammit, Fortune knows me too well. I suppose I might as well admit that there are ~35 common small-arms calibers in my games, and for uncommon ones I just adapt Raygun's numbers.

By the way, I don't suggest trying to get a hold-out that fires .44 Remington Magnum, or an assault rifle that fires .338 Lapua -- if the platform could actually handle the pressures, your hands/wrists/arms/shoulders couldn't. The others are possible, but not exactly shooter-friendly...

Posted by: Raygun Jan 27 2004, 05:33 PM

Here's a link to the file on my site that adresses the topic. http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/ammo/current.html.

The intent of the file was to give readers an idea of what kind of cartridges certain firearms use. Of course new cartridges will be developed, but the basic size, range, and power level will be comparable to modern cartridges, even sixty years from now. Most firearms can use mutiple cartridges, which can mean different damage codes.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 27 2004, 07:30 PM

I still wanna get around to making that hold-out shotgun... take an over-under shotgun, cut away the stock, toss on a pistol grip, cut down the barrel 'till it barely covers the shells, and then use it like a can of mace.

~J

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 27 2004, 08:00 PM

Or how about a hold-out http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/payload.pdf for Trolls?

Posted by: Arethusa Jan 27 2004, 08:07 PM

I think you'd have better luck with that shotgun without a pistol grip. A sloped back grip would put the barrel axis in line with your wrist, and that makes your wrist less likely to snap.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 27 2004, 08:20 PM

How would that do for concealability?
On a side note, the original concept was for a character who was preparing for the possibility of being captured. The shotpistol was intended as an "emergency exit" and as such the possibility of breaking his wrist wasn't exactly considered important.

~J

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 27 2004, 08:24 PM

Posted by: Arethusa Jan 27 2004, 10:11 PM

If anything, it'd be easier to conceal because the shape is more ergonomic and can fit in more places. And, anyway, I'd be worried about breaking my wrist. Never know what's coming after the first two guards whose faces you remove.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Jan 27 2004, 10:17 PM

To be a little more blunt, the character was originally intending to have this on hand so that he could paint his brains on the ceiling instead of being captured if that's what it came down to.

~J

Posted by: Diesel Jan 28 2004, 12:10 AM

It you want to get real complicated, Austere put together a penetration system (AE: Do you have your own webpage) that I kinda rewrote a little and it's on my site. It goes up to ARs, and you can kind of extrapolate MGs.

http://www.geocities.com/industriallegion/caliberlist.html (Cartridges + Values)
http://www.geocities.com/industriallegion/remake.html (Weapons, ammo, and stats)

Posted by: danbot37 Jan 28 2004, 12:56 AM

I've actually had a little shotgun hold out pistol, but fired a .410 round (not a whole lot of shot, but some, and could shoot 45 mag slugs also. It was not much bigger than a .22 pistol of the same kind, but only held one bullet.

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 28 2004, 05:38 AM