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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Share your knowledge
Posted by: Lok1 :) Oct 9 2009, 02:04 AM
I'm not sure if this has been done yet but I'm sure all you shadowrun giants* out their have quite a storehouse of advice to help build a commen thread filled with tactic ideas, axems, and geniral advice.
So if your an old vet or a the new kid on the block feel free to bring your ideas to the table.
Just a few pointers before you start
1: This thread is for ANY kind of idea, a tactic that works great, a uniqe trick that creats a good effect, a peace of gear every runner should have or at least think about buying, ways to keep johson from screwing you in the end. Anything, this includes in character actions and ways to use the rules in creative ways, and just about anything that can make the run go smoother and keep your runners alive longer. Feel free to be creative or use examples from your own runs.
2: This thread is not a place for dragged out discussions about rules, or ideas. If you would like to say how you think something could be done diferntly than someone else or if you see a flaw in someones idea thats fine. But Dumpshockers have a tendancy to diverge into long debates about something offhand, I have nothing against this but that isn't the purpose of this thread.
That said Go Wild! 
*Read geysers
Posted by: Lok1 :) Oct 9 2009, 02:20 AM
Well to kick things off I'll put out a few off my own.
1. Need a distraction? One or two kilos of explosives are increadibly cheap, and ecspeialy effective if placed under a unattended vechicial. Great way to creat a red herring entrince or mask the sound of a sniper rifle.
2.Its a given that non-lethality is a good policy. Stun dammage is one way, but putting a gun (or blade) to someones head is always another. Nothing better than a hostaged guard who can open the gate or tell you where the cameras are before you take him out of the way and subdue him.
3. Its a known fact that whoever was smart enough to set up snipers ahead of time always wins. Always, check. Even if they don't know your comeing johson dose. I once did a run where we were hired to extract someone from a medical phisicialty, turns out johson was another runner team that had been hired to kill him. We got him out and then they sniped him and left us with the body and the blame.
Posted by: milk ducks Oct 9 2009, 02:20 AM
I'm pretty new to SR, so threads like this are great for me. Looking forward to reading it.
-milk.
Posted by: Marwynn Oct 9 2009, 03:25 AM
- Laes cigarettes (Arsenal p. 64) are a cheap and easy way to erase memories.
Empathy Software (3000 
for Rating 6) adds that much dice to your Social Skills. Load a camera into a small drone, or disguise a sensor as part of your ensemble and you have a nice and easy source of social dice. (Arsenal p.60-61, the software there is useful.)
- Demolish RFID spell removes pesky tags, even for those Security and Stealth RFIDs. Great for stealing stuff or making sure something you ate isn't giving you away to corpsec. If it's going to be an issue you might as well be prepared.
- Form-Fitting Body Armour is your friend most of the time. But if you're wearing it underneath other armour or clothes don't put Thermal Dampening on it, okay? Unless you plan to strip that is.
- When carrying a gun that cannot be detected by MAD scanners (like the Morrissey Elan) do not load it with regular ammunition. Use Hi-C PLASTIC rounds (Arsenal. p34). Talk with your GM about hermetically sealing the clips too, and buying plastic or ceramic clips.
- Have only one Initiative Pass? Pick up Automatics and maybe the SMG specialization and lay down Suppressive Fire. If someone has that covered in your team then pick up Heavy Weapons (Grenade Launcher) instead, or pick up Automatics (Assault Rifle) with it and go to town with the Ares Alpha. You don't have to shoot as well as the shooters to make a difference.
- A timely grenade (Gas, Smoke, Thermal Smoke, Flash or Flash-packs) saves lives. Your life, your team's, and corpsec's. Less heat means shorter downtimes means more runs.
Posted by: overcannon Oct 9 2009, 04:09 AM
1. If you are worried that a room might be an ambush point, toss in a grenade first.
2. It is always better to double cross than to be double crossed.
3. Explosive, caseless rounds cut down on identifying marks.
4. Capsule rounds with neurostun.
5. Portable doors. Look 'em up.
6. LEBDs are awesome drones.
7. A 55 gallon drum of pressurized flamethrower fuel can serve as eradication type demolitions in most situations.
8. Tasers are not even regulated.
9. You don't have to reload swords.
10. The Ares Alpha is the best assault rifle in the game bar none. Don't even try to be cute with something else.
11. Hacking programs are cheap at rating 3, common use programs are cheap all the way up to rating 6.
12. With pistols, it is technically quicker to draw a new gun with quick draw than it is to reload.
13. The best armor is not getting shot.
14. Have more than one plan to accomplish the objective.
15. Have more than one escape route.
And since no one else has said it yet:
Posted by: Lok1 :) Oct 9 2009, 05:17 AM
16. Always assumm the johson knows what you know about him.
17. Never underestimate the human compultion to obay orders from above. Sending bogus orders to a securty guard can be better than an illusion spell and a bullet to the head combined.
18. Securty hackers have days off, and they have vices. Exploit them and your hackers can have there job praciticly done for them. (I'm not saying wait untill the spiders offline, they'll have another guy on the shift. I'm saying take advantage of the nerd while he's off duty.
18a. Combine this with laes cigarettes and a bogus credstick and you can "bribe" them easy.
19. Even though it takes quite alot of work and a geniun credstick to forge Nyune. All it takes is a decent amount of knowledge with hardwear and a blank credstick to make a credstick LOOK like it has a tun of Nyune on it. Even though any attempt at a transaction would show the scam. Just think what you can do if someone THINKS you have a million Nyune.*
20. DOS is your friend.
21. Docwagon is not your friend. (If the other guy has it that is)
22. Malware is expensive and hard to get. But it can defintly be worth it.
23. If you get a lowe level access to a highly secure system, sometimes you can download trojans and other malware to make your life easer. Ticker, Proxy, Inerta, pacifist, RAT, and a host of others are all good candits.
24. Exploit is good, but sometimes getting a passcode or tricking/forceing a ligit user to get in can give you more freedom and stabilty. (This depends on your GM to some extent.
25. Dead bodys with body armour are good for tamping explosives. So are vehicles.
26. Sometimes fake bombs are just as effective as real ones.
*Is this possible?
Posted by: Khyron Oct 9 2009, 08:04 AM
27. The loud crazy team member no one likes makes a great distraction
28. If a team member dies, don't forget to loot all his stuff back at his house. He won't need it anymore. There's a good chance you will.
29. Longhaul is a wonderful drug, it'll keep you up for days, perfect for a long run.
30. The old grade 10 tranq patch handshake trick is hilarious and fun.
31. Just because it's not in the books doesn't mean it doesn't have a use. Superglue for instance.
31A. Superglue one of your many empty Ares Preds into the hands of some nobody and push them out the front door for the cops to meet. It'll buy the team a few minutes distraction time.
31B. Superglue in the spider's datajack. Nasty and cruel.
32. Salt Water still shorts out electronics as well as it does today.
Posted by: The Stray7 Oct 9 2009, 08:20 AM
More fun with superglue! (and, BTW, there's an item called a "gluesprayer" in the equipment section...)
31C. Superglue + Monofilament grappling line = instant tripwire! (won't last long, but it should buy those precious few seconds of warning, and, if your GM is genrous, perhaps one guard down)
31D. Then there's always the standby of gluing the door shut behind you...or putting some glue on the floor as the security teams close in.
31E. Superglue -- the new zip tie!
Posted by: Karoline Oct 9 2009, 09:30 AM
So I'm going to take a step away from giving advice and instead ask some questions/clarifications for other advice.
What's wrong with thermal dampening on an under layer of clothing? Your body is what produces heat, so as long as the dampener is somewhere between you and the thermal vision you should be fine.
Careful with the superglue folks. Nothing tends to leave a better fingerprint or grabs more DNA samples, and you really don't want your glove stuck to something either, as that is just as good for the corp to track you down.
All water will short out electronics unless it is pure (No, I don't mean purena, bottle water is nothing close to pure), this includes rain, tap water, bottled water, and basically any water that doesn't come from a special tap in a science building.
Posted by: Traul Oct 9 2009, 10:13 AM
Don't forget your Detect RFID spell to go with that. If you can't see it, you can't cast a spell on it.
Posted by: Adhoc Oct 9 2009, 10:44 AM
Strategy:
- You need something inside a building, but can't get in? Make someone inside take it out (fake rumors about potential theft and have sec remove it from the building).
- You need to kill somebody, - trick someone else into doing it (same if you need to plant something somewhere); they may think that they are planting something else.
- Think holistic: every day life is full of opportunities; - use them (even a cyberzombie will have a hard time surviving being pushed in front of a moving train; a car can kill most people; so can a falling elevator).
- Stealth is king. If they don't know that you were there, they won't look for clues.
- Think long and hard before you act. Always contingency plan.
- Gravity is your friend (a 40 stories drop will kill anybody that can't fly; and it'll get the flyers if they are unconcious).
- Violence is the last resort of the incompetent (and the first resort of the psychopath); be prepared for it, but don't use it in your planning and avoid it in action at all costs.
- Poison is easy, quiet and effective.
- Knowledge is power; there is no such thing as too much or irrelevant knowledge. Never let anyone comprise your chances of obtaining knowledge (if the johnson needs is done now and this means you won't be able to obtain knowledge (do stake-outs etc.), say no to the job (that is: if you want to live).
- Always payback. Effective & consistent payback will deminish the chances of people f*cking you over in the future.
- Dikote all bladed weapons.
A.
Posted by: Marwynn Oct 9 2009, 01:21 PM
Thermal Dampening works by keeping heat inside and making your surface temperature equal to the surrounding air. It's not a perfect system so the layer between your clothes and the FFBA with Thermal Dampening is still slightly warmer (say from your own movement, or even slight physical contact, bleed through of heat, etc), and of course your clothes as well can be warmed by other things.
It does the first part well keeping your heat in, but it doesn't blend you into the background as easily.
A Lined Coat with Thermal Dampening works well for instance, as you wear it as the outer layer.
Ahh yes the LOS. Catalog works too, sorry I assumed a magical thief would have that along. Just remember to set your commlink to record what you're saying out loud too. Gotta beat OR of RFIDs though.
The alternative to this is a boosted Pulse spell that can target Stealth and Security RFIDs too.
Posted by: Karoline Oct 9 2009, 01:45 PM
It does the first part well keeping your heat in, but it doesn't blend you into the background as easily.
A Lined Coat with Thermal Dampening works well for instance, as you wear it as the outer layer.
Well, I'll just have to agree to disagree. If all your body heat is trapped by the first layer of clothing, none of it will escape to further layers, and friction between layers of clothing isn't going to be enough to show up on thermographics. Also, the lined coat lacks a hoodie, so your head will still stick out, so be careful of that. I won't comment again about this, don't want to derail the thread.
33? Don't do drugs
34. No wait... do drugs, they are super helpful, just be careful not to get addicted.
35. Drone + Packed explosives = expendable suicide bomber.
36. Slave your nodes, all of them, makes them basically impossible to hack
37. Don't forget to run in hidden mode.
38. Clustering your cyberware can give you a decent node to work with.
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 9 2009, 02:41 PM
I'll toss a few in the pot -
Players:
+ Shoot straight. Conserve ammo. Never trust a dragon (or an elf, for that matter).
+ The more things change, the more they stay the same.
+ The scariest words in the world are, "it'll be easy."
+ Nothin' to fear if you got the gear (and contacts, and a Doc Wagon Gold account)
+ If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a bug. Kill it with fire.
+ It's a trick. Get an axe.
+ Once you pull the pin, Mister Grenade is no longer your friend.
+ Geek the mage first.
+ Always let the sasquatch win.
+ When happy cat has run out of happy, it's time to leave.
+ Cardio!
+ Shoot 'em in the head! SHOOT 'EM IN THE HEAD! ("His axe is on fire! He killed your parents!")
+ Likewise: boom boom boom. Three in the head, you know they're dead.
+ Everything is better with NERPS!
GMs:
+ It is your game. But these people have come to have a good time. Remember this.
+ Play up your strengths.
+ Play to your player's strengths.
+ But make 'em sweat.
+ A good GM borrows. A great GM steals. A superior GM does it while they're looking.
+ Always keep your influences at hand for quick reference.
+ Prepare. Prepare. Prepare. Extra character sheets, player / gm cheat sheets, maps, npcs, locations, books, random notes you jotted down at 3am and you have no idea what they mean but hey, toss it in there anyways ("hampster nipples? WTF is so funny about hampster nipples?"), funny voices, quotes, extra food & soda.
+ "Three are three outcomes to any Shadowrun scenario: the two you came up with, and the third the players implement."
+ Don't be afraid to wing it. But never let 'em know you had to.
+ Follow the Rule of McNinja: Is it awesome? Throw it in there!
+ One I learned from SR Bootcamp last year: Minmaxing is a player's way of saying, "Hi! Fuck with me!" (paraphrased).
+ +1 / -1 is a good shortcut...wait, wrong game 
+ The Golden Rule: Have fun. Everything else is trivial.
Posted by: Marwynn Oct 9 2009, 03:20 PM
I don't think we're really disagreeing. My view is ust that Therm. Damp. traps the heat inside but the outer layer also has to fade into the background, else you're just a cooler spot. I think of it as a two-step thing, keeping your heat in so you don't bloom in thermographic, and blending into the air's temp. Thermal camo. But yeah it's an interesting topic, let's discuss it in another thread maybe.
- Commlinks are cheap, Fake SINs are cheap. Use them like toilet paper.
- Make friends with hackers. Do favours for them. They'll make your life easier.
- Tasers aren't restricted. A lot of melee weapons aren't either. Carry them openly, just don't brag about your cool stun baton.
- A few microdrones flying around can do wonders for surveillance and trailing. But there are also spy drone hunters. Make use of both, just remember to let them play nice.
- Chemicals are your friends. But bring a respirator.
Posted by: Screaming Eagle Oct 9 2009, 03:55 PM
- You are never too 'leet for "Food Fight"
- you are never too n00b for "Food Fight"
- Blood mages want to cut you for 2 good reasons - magical power from hurting you and targeting you with ritual sorsery later - DON'T LET THEM CUT YOU
- A good game is ready for twists turns and excitement - a great game is ready to break for food because everyone is too on edge from all of the twists turn and excitment, a perfect game has pizza.
- Tazers are amazing - period. Bring 2.
- Start the game early and play the game late, all of my best experiances in roleplaying happened in and around hour 4-8 of the game. I know this can be difficult to manage but every once in a while it is mint.
- GM's - Never hesitate to try to kill the group if you feel they have earned it, you would be suprised how much fun it is to watch them win dispite your best efforts and your prime runner kill teams.
- Background counts are gross, its like concentrated hate in magic land, use them often if you feel like weakning the mage (or because you hate them)
- They will always find the way you didn't plan for - so plan for the run less, prepare the location more - create a place with little thought of how they will break in/ win, make security you believe and name the staff members and give them quick write ups. You'd be amased how easy it makes things when the group desides to do something insane.
EDIT - nothing has ever made me laugh harder as a player the the Catalist Stick - it's cheap an anything, tiny and turns Steath Grapple lines to dust in seconds. This is hilariuos when throwing off pursuit, espesially the kind of reasonably high end pursuit that can afford stealth grapple line. Sure it only came up once, but once was enough.
Posted by: Tyraxus Oct 9 2009, 04:45 PM
I'm another SR newbie (played our first run last week) so I'm glad to see this.
Rule number 1!
Posted by: DWC Oct 9 2009, 05:15 PM
Amen to the cardio rule. You can't be a shadowrunner if you can't run. It won't come up often, but eventually the ability to run 6 miles through a traffic jam, with all your gear, in Denver, will save your life.
Posted by: Penta Oct 9 2009, 05:18 PM
This is useful for players and GMs alike. For GMs, more with recurring characters.
Keep a notebook, a computer folder, -something- on your character. Put biographical stuff in there, character developments...Keep notes on your character, in short. From what actually happens in-game to (clearly delineated) scribbles and thoughts and stuff. Initially it seems like a lot of work. It is.
After a while, though, having all that info goes a long way in keeping stories straight and bringing a character to life. I've found that even newbie roleplayers, if they do this consistently, can make characters really come together well.
Roleplaying is a lot like acting in that regard: There is a strange element of...craft, I guess, to it. Research into your roles pays dividends. Whether this means books from the library, devouring SR sourcebooks (the novels are less helpful in my opinion, but YMMV), movies...Whatever works.
Playing your role over time also matters - I'm about to retire a character after 4 years of playing him, and I'm finding that even as I get ready to retire him from active play, I'm still learning about him. He still surprises me - to an extent, living quite independently of his creator. (Makes me incredibly sad, to the point of RL tears, to think of retiring him, but the admin of the MOO I play him on is right - there comes a time for every character to exit active play. His time is approaching, as it inevitably must.)
That didn't happen straightaway, though with this character it happened quickly because I learned to do the research. It happened after dozens, hundreds of hours of play that he started to grow into a fully realized character.
Posted by: Warlordtheft Oct 9 2009, 05:31 PM
If you have more guns on you than arms. You might be over dressed.
If a panther cannon is your weapon of choice-live in the barrens.
If you can go around town with no weapons and still kill someone-carry a weapon in to the barrens. Otherwise you will have to kill someone.
Multi layered matrix systems for the players are useful. Multilayered matrix systems for the GM-priceless.
Sometimes rolling or consulting the rules is pointless (eg: getting swarmed by 20 heavily armed and armored corp sec goons in an open field with drone, sniper, and mage support). Indentify those siuations and just ask the players if they feel lucky (IE they got edge).
Posted by: crizh Oct 9 2009, 05:51 PM
If you're going to get a Nano-hive, get a Lower Cyber-arm and put it in that. Even Second-hand you will save a ton of Essence and you'll save a fortune on the hives.
Posted by: Karoline Oct 9 2009, 06:05 PM
I get how you save essence, how do you save nuyen? Oh, you mean by getting the hive second hand. Good thinking
Posted by: Lok1 :) Oct 9 2009, 07:48 PM
-If your GM will let you, have a gernade or small explosives placed in the handle of your gun with a radio detonator with an off switch. (Signal can't be sent untill you've turned it on manualy) This works great if you find yourself in a tough spot. Drop your gun, kick it across, hands on your head, you know the drill. Than when he picks it up blow him to kingdom come and have your secondary pistol with a hidden arm slide up and start running.
- Explosives like the banaglor torpedo are great for ruining pavement, makeing it harder to be driven over.
- Lightning bolts deal phyiscal as well as stun wich means big pentlys, but a stunball will take you at allot quicker.
- Don't min-max all this will bring you is a dead character
-I'm not suggesting tagging your johson, sneaking into his house at night, sedateing him and haveing a cranial bomb implanted than putting him back in his bed. I'm just saying its an option.
Posted by: ccelizic Oct 10 2009, 12:19 AM
-Make friendly with the team face. Saves you money when it comes to hunting down gear if they can do it withotu going through contacts.
-Make friendly with contacts who do stuff the team can't do. When you hire'em tip heavily.
-Make friendly with contacts who stand to gain by crossing you. Tip heavily.
-Ok, make that a general suggestion, Tip heavily.
-Never underestimating the guards assuming nobody would be THAT crazy.
-Just don't be the guy to "capitalize off of that" convince someone else to.
-The matrix is cheap and easy to get involved with. Never hurts to have rudimentary computer skills and gear. Just.... don't hot dive unless you are built to take heat.
-A mage usually has high willpower and therefore makes a surprisingly good matrix "tank" if kitted out with a good commlink and gear.
-That hacker is usually using cracked warez which means he can copy it to multiple systems, get him to toss you a copy.
-If you are going to meet a johnson on the matrix kit all the non-hackers up with bots that way if things go south everyone has heat.
-Shape shifters regenerate, let them go first.
-Shape shifters are gullieable, make it seem like it's a great thing that they go first.
Posted by: Marwynn Oct 10 2009, 12:37 AM
- A Force 5 Spirit can affect a Body 10 Vehicle with its Movement power at half the normal strength. Meaning it can only make it go 2.5 times as fast. That includes most common cars.
- Movement can also slow vehicles down, that same Force 5 Spirit can slow a vehicle down by 2.5 times.
- The Accident power can force a crash test. Combine it with Movement deliberately increasing your opponent's velocity and the Accident power and you have one ready made crash.
- Spirits of Air have it baseline, Water spirits can select Accident as an optional power.
Makes those car chases much more interesting. Of course, there's probably added notoriety for having that Lonestar squad car ram through a market instead of following you...
Posted by: ravensoracle Oct 10 2009, 03:27 AM
- Remember this is a game where you can "Shoot people in the face for money," or not. It's your choice.
Posted by: MikeKozar Oct 10 2009, 08:13 AM
[while they are driving around in the shopping mall with 2 police cars on their tail]
Elwood: Baby clothes...
Jake: This place has got everything.
- Make a list of everything that you can think of that might go wrong. Check it frequently.
- Play a character that is fun for you. Don't let the team talk you into suffering for them.
- Play a character that helps the team. Know your job, do it well, and often.
- Don't confuse role-playing with an open invitation to be a dick. Let everybody else have fun too.
- Sympathize with the GM. Help him out, suggest fair compromises when the rules are unclear.
- Metagaming can be used for good. Know what your GM's vision for the game is, and you can flow with it instead of against it. You'll be astounded at how much it helps.
- Don't split the party, but don't bunch up.
- Your Shadowrunner is part of a community of frighteningly talented and largely amoral mercenaries with little regard for the odds of surviving a job. Subcontracting, while not expressly forbidden, is considered 'unsporting'.
- It's still sometimes worth %15 to bring in a GMPC for the gaps in the party's skillset.
- If you can't put the grenade where it needs to be, give it to someone who can.
- Low-tech works.
- Vision Magnification is 100Y and can negate a -3 penalty. No excuses.
- Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
- Don't bring a gun to a spirit fight.
- Your vehicle needs handling more then speed. Sad but true.
- Laser weapons cut your armor in half. While you're wearing it, generally.
- If you're taking Restricted Gear anyway, mod that sucker up to 20F.
- Common Sense may be the best 5 BP you spend.
- Be nice to NPCs. You know what you call a homeless dude yelling at his imaginary friends? Awakened.
- The number of retired runners in the service industry is directly related to the PC's tendency to stick up diners for a quick buck.
- The corp wageslave isn't scary by himself - but he tends to have thousands of other wageslaves on speed dial, some of which have Assault Cannons and Powered Armor. Let him have the taxi.
~Mike
Deadmetal: You, Sir, are a Dick GM.
Posted by: Saint Sithney Oct 10 2009, 11:00 AM
-If you don't have the drugs or the magic, a serious concussion will erase anyone's short term memory in a pinch.
-On the flip side of that, Cyber eyes and ears have built in recorders. No one expects you to run backup of that info into a data lock, least of all that wiz fragger with his slick little spells.
-You can never have too many recon drones.
-Consider taking a 1/1 chump contact. Nothing keeps the heat off your ass like a fall guy.
-If your backup plan doesn't involve explosives, you just got yourself a backup backup plan.
-"Senseless shooting" can become "drug-related death" real easily.
-Always get building specs. City planning commission should have them publicly accessible.
Posted by: Whipstitch Oct 10 2009, 11:46 PM
A non-lethality policy is great and all, but never forget that not everything actually takes stun damage.
Posted by: MusicMan Oct 11 2009, 07:38 AM
Putting the fear of death in someone is not the same as killing them... just because you're not going to kill someone does not mean you can't let them think you will.
1 shot on target is better than 100 in the dirt.
Swords don't have to reload, but guns measure their range in meters/yards--not feet.
The right tool for the right job. Shotguns aren't hold-out pistols, hammers are not wrenches, and contacts are not allies.
Posted by: Neraph Oct 12 2009, 07:57 PM
- Don't min-max all this will bring you is a dead character
How so (where does it say Lightning Bolt deals physical and stun?)? And I strongly disagree with #2. If you min-maxed and died, you did it wrong.
EDIT:
Many. many of the last posts are ridiculous. For instance, a 1/1 contact is -not- going to take a fall for you knowingly; you should bring a gun to a spirit fight, if the gun has SnS ammo; and Common Sense is only a good quality if you yourself don't have it and your GM does (or: if your GM and you both don't have real world common sense, you're burning 5 BP).
To contribute though:
- Use a splash grenade with Slab and Laes in it. This is many times more effective (and expensive) than Narcoject, but Narcoject is potentially lethal if you end up overflowing. Slab is not.
- Pepper Punch is not regulated. Neither are gas grenades. Neither is the Super-Squirt. All are cheap.
- Physical Wall + road + car chase = crash test. Use it behind you as you pass a location.
- Infected + Sustenance = food. You won't need to feed on people, and you can hide your condition much easier this way.
- K-10 + Capsule Rounds + Sniper Rifle = Good distraction. Use on guards.
Posted by: crizh Oct 12 2009, 08:25 PM
I lol'd.
Were you talking about using Physical Barrier in a car chase?
I can't imagine it being any more effective than a pile of empty cardboard boxes. It's one of the most useless Manipulation spells in the book.
Posted by: ravensoracle Oct 12 2009, 09:26 PM
We used K-10 + DMSO + Gas Grenade when we had to take out a gang that was reaking havoc in the neighborhood. Just locked them in thier own warehaouse and let the carnage ensue. Fun times
Posted by: Lok1 :) Oct 12 2009, 09:54 PM
If you Min-Maxed to obviously with some of the GMs I've had you'd be dead way before the guy who had to struggle to get his pool over 10. trust me
As for lightning bolt, it deals physical dammage that has the secondary effect of electric dammage. Check pages196-197 and 154 of SR4 if you don't beleive me. (can someone give me the page numbers for SR4A)
That said while were on the topic of electricty just a few things you can do with this brand of magic.
- Screw up equipment (pritty standerd)
- Activate plastic explosives. (Yes their resistant to heat, but not electricty)
- Make someone think they were struck by real lightning. Its the awakened world, and most likely seattle. Great way to get docwagon called. (Why you would want to I have no idea)
Posted by: CanadianWolverine Oct 12 2009, 10:10 PM
While I may be short on experience, there is one thing I think would be useful for others to know:
- While Stealth may be King, Perception is Queen.
- If you obey your King & Queen, you should be able to be the one doing the surprising rather than failing the surprise test. They can't even use Reaction against something they aren't aware of, let alone Dodge but remember neither can you if surprised.
- Considering the above, fear the GM's hidden sniper. As another has said, setup your sniper support first.
- Just because it is a sniper doesn't mean it needs to be lethal or even a live target. Aimed Shot (full bonus) plus Called Shot can do some pretty interesting things.
I would need some help understanding perception with regards all things Matrix and Astral, but I am pretty sure Stealth and Perception are pretty important as skills and concepts in those areas too.
Posted by: JaronK Oct 13 2009, 01:23 AM
I can't imagine it being any more effective than a pile of empty cardboard boxes. It's one of the most useless Manipulation spells in the book.
At least in SR3 it was awesome for that. Force 4 Physical Barrier with 4 successes is actually quite solid, enough to destroy a car very easily. Even better is Limited Physical Barrier: Computers which will completely strip the car of all electronics (including Autonav, Sensors, and most controls) without problems. Might even blow someone's head off if they've got the wrong thing in their head.
JaronK
Posted by: Ustio Oct 13 2009, 09:49 AM
- An illusion of half a dozen or so slowly moving red dots on someone is a great way to negotiate.
- Capsule rounds loaded with barrier foam = instant bobble head (more fun with full auto).
- When rolling a hacker/tm/rigger remember that whilst Log doesn’t add to your rolls all those goodies that add to logic linked skills do.
- Never underestimate people's willingness to let you enter their home if your polite, well dressed and claim to be from the authorities™.
- Security will more often let you in if you seem to be delivering something big and heavy (like a fridge) rather than something small and light (like flowers) - please note the empty fridge box is also great for taking large things (like people) out.
- Home made explosives are easy and cheap, but are about as stable as your team mates.
- When in a pursuit dont try to hack their car hack a nearby car and use them to block the way.
- The general public know squat about network security - exploit (get it?) this when you need an access ID to blame
Posted by: MikeKozar Oct 13 2009, 08:05 PM
JaronK
I have a friend who used to have a barrier against living things, permiable to inanimate objects. You know, so you couldn't walk through it, but bullets could pass through? Apparantly used it in a car chase once.
Kid, you're picking fights in a humor thread, and I'm a little annoyed at being called ridiculous. Maybe your runner rolls with a taser, but in my neighborhood you don't load goofball rounds in your assault rifle standard. Anyway, the proper weapon to bring to a spirit fight is a friend who rolled a mage. As for common sense, I'm going to skip the obvious potshot and just say it's very valuable when you can't read your DM's mind. Sometimes he thinks something is obvious when he writes a scenario and at 3AM you don't pick up on the subtle warnings. It has saved my dwarven bacon when I didn't understand the situation I was in; it's absence nearly necessitated a http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=27724&hl=explosions. I stand by my "Common Sense may be the best 5 BP you spend" - if you don't need it, great, but if you ever do need it, it will probably save your character, which is well worth 5 BP.
Posted by: JaronK Oct 14 2009, 08:43 AM
Our group was demented enough to use Limited Physical Barrier: Brain. And yes, that one's for car chases, though it also works in a lot of other situations. Also, Limited Physical Barrier: Testicles. Sounds silly and juvenile, until you realize that almost all of our party is female. Our party runs through the barrier just fine but our enemies get dropped out of the fight very quickly, and there's almost no way to actually destroy either of those barriers with mundane resources. Extremely handy.
JaronK
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 14 2009, 11:17 AM
JaronK
You know, that's pretty clever.
Posted by: Dahrken Oct 14 2009, 11:37 AM
I'm not sure this kind of spell could work the way you used them. If someone throwed some anatomical spare parts at you, then yes, they would have been stopped because those would be separate items.
But as long as they are part of a live metahuman I don't think they could be targeted specifically, the same way I would not allow the use of a "Wreck cybereyes" spells to blind you foes with minimal drain.
Posted by: Cardul Oct 14 2009, 02:32 PM
Remember: if you can do, so can the Corps/GM..
If it ain't cool, it was probably a bad idea.
Just because it's cool, does not mean it is a good idea.
No matter how many times someone does it, Lone Star/Knight Errant never seems
to include aquatic units for when the submersible, amphibious get away car
drives off the pier into Puget Sound....
Posted by: Neraph Oct 14 2009, 03:22 PM
Were you talking about using Physical Barrier in a car chase?
I can't imagine it being any more effective than a pile of empty cardboard boxes. It's one of the most useless Manipulation spells in the book.
The game goes like this: Did you hit something? Crash Test!
It doesn't take into account the hardness of the object, just how fast the collision was.
Posted by: Neraph Oct 14 2009, 03:24 PM
It uses the secondary effects of electrical damage, not all of the effects of electrical damage. The primary effect of electrical damage is stun damage, the secondary effects are the "tazer" effects.
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 14 2009, 06:18 PM
But as long as they are part of a live metahuman I don't think they could be targeted specifically, the same way I would not allow the use of a "Wreck cybereyes" spells to blind you foes with minimal drain.
I'll be honest here, I would definitely okay this if my players ran it by me.
I'm just saying.
Posted by: Lok1 :) Oct 14 2009, 06:48 PM
JaronK
Wow, nice. Thats all I can say.
Posted by: Pendaric Oct 14 2009, 06:53 PM
Platlett factory and chemical gland means you never die of thrombosis.
Posted by: Wacky Oct 15 2009, 01:53 AM
Thrombosis: (Greek θρόμβωσις) is the formation of a blood clot (thrombus) inside a blood vessel, obstructing the flow of blood through the circulatory system. When a blood vessel is injured, the body uses platelets and fibrin to form a blood clot, because the first step in repairing it (hemostasis) is to prevent loss of blood. If that mechanism causes too much clotting, and the clot breaks free, an embolus is formed.
Wouldn't having platett factory be more likely to cause this problem rather than prevent it? In the original biotech handbook they had a fluff mention of a runner with this bit of bioware that got his nose punched in a barfight and it clotted too much preventing him from it (had to become a mouthbreather) until a bloodthinner could be applied.
But to add to the thread's ideal, I like to gauge the run to know the gear level that I should bring along with. If you're going to be doing something that doesn't break the law (too much) don't bring gear that is illegal.
Recently I was playing a gnome whose group was hired to kill a man. Turns out the guy is a pedophile and my character looks like a human child. Guess what everyone decided to have me do? 
Anyway once I'm in the room I taser the guy in the face so his limited armor can do nothing to resist and he drops to the floor. The second shot is enough to push him past his threshold and he's out.
Another player (playing a pixie who went invisible) casts turn to goo and we drop him over the balcony. He splatters while the pixie ends the spell and the pedophile is no more. But I had technology that was perfectly legal so no one stopped me from having it.
Oh, and how did I sneak the taser in past security? I ducttaped it underneath a cyberpet that another player bought from some bizarre reason. It covered the electroinics in the weapon and didn't look out of place with some kid.
I named the cybercat "Mr. Flufflykins".
Sign--
Wacky
Posted by: Traul Oct 15 2009, 10:36 AM
That's the point: have the chemical gland synthetize the bloodthinner. That's a bit too expensive for me.
Posted by: Neraph Oct 15 2009, 03:50 PM
Wouldn't that simply negate the Platelet factories? You spend money and lose essence for nothing. A couple of vampire hookers will get you the same effect, and at least you'll have a fun memory.
Posted by: Whipstitch Oct 15 2009, 07:11 PM
Background aside, the nuts and bolts of character generation is metagaming at its heart. You make assumptions about what the game world will expect from you to survive and then you try to reconcile those expectations with the kind of character you would enjoy running. If the GM doesn't want to run a game for a character that results from that process, then they should tell the players what they're not comfortable with and ask them to change the sheet accordingly, don't nuke 'em from orbit after they've settled into the game. It slows things down and just forces people to play the guessing metagame about how far is too far when generating their next character. As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
tldr version: Your GMs suck.
Posted by: Pendaric Oct 15 2009, 07:30 PM
Nope, just stops the blood cloting in unpleasant ways which will happen without them. It expensive but when not getting your meds in the midddle of the jungle means life and death, I d be willing to pay.
Damage compensation and platlett factory is a nice combo when your not going to die from a lack of blood thiners.
SA grenade lauchers in cirtain situations are funny when you have them but not when the oppersition does.
Looking cool is often more fun that being non discript but often more dangerous. If you going to die, die with style.
Defensive architeture and sound tactics make low level oppersition high level opposition.
Ware should be about style as well as utility. Even if your style is non descript.
A uber opponent will never take a team, for two reasons, they can not do six things at once. Fire power is squared.
A clever opponent capable of facing an entire run team would take out each individual out seperately, so play up the brains not the firepower. Its more realistic and promotes longer term play than player shoot them in the face stratergy every time. It will end there but getting there is more picturesque.
Posted by: Drraagh Oct 18 2009, 10:21 PM
A clever opponent capable of facing an entire run team would take out each individual out seperately, so play up the brains not the firepower. Its more realistic and promotes longer term play than player shoot them in the face stratergy every time. It will end there but getting there is more picturesque.
I will agree with the second part, which is what most clever opponents will do, but I would be willing to say that the uber opponent would still be able to take out the team, so long as they are set up properly. For example, throw a team against a fullborg like Robocop or a huge drone like ED-209 or Metal Gear and they were only prepared for metahuman resistance, someone able to take a hit and still dish out punishment leaves the team having to think of either beating feet or having to find some unique way to deal with the enemy the GM did not think of. I mean, if you don't have any heavy weapons and the like, it's not like you can stand toe to toe with this thing.
Comics do that as well some times, look at the enemies who can take out all of a superhero group until the good guys find their weak point and can suddenly turn the tables on them. It can sometimes make for good enetertainment, and from a player side, I sometimes like being faced with a failure like that because it makes me think of how to deal with their power and turn it against them. From a GM side, it makes it challenging to the PCs in more ways than just a few combat rolls or stealth rolls, because it turns it into more of a cerebral challenge with people thinking about tactics and the like.
Other RPGs I've played in is like D&D, you can do that with things like prophecies and riddles and the like, but in the end, it depends on how much your players are for rollplaying versus roleplaying. That was an argument I heard about Oblivion and the development of Fallout 3; Don't make things like lockpicking or interacting with people based on /player/ abilities, make them based on /character/ abilities.
Sorry, derailed the thread a bit so I'll toss out some of my ideas to help people out.
Information is your most valuable commodity. Learn about the building layout, the names of the people who work there and when they do, the response time of security, the different security measures, even if any of the people havek ids and their names, since you never know when any of this will come in handy, making small talk with people like you work there for example.
Always plan at least four escape routes out of every building you go into and make sure you have means of escape from them. Usually turns into the front door, the back door, a window and the roof (or something similar). Also, don't forget about the possibility of explosives to create your own escape routes if cut off. After all, security is thinking of ways to keep you in, so you should be thinking of ways out.
People overlook the service personnel, so any time you need to get information of a place, go by dressed up as a courier or pizza delivery, but make sure it fits the area. If you're delivering flowers to a secret installation, it probably won't fly. But if you're dressed up as a lab technican carrying some chemical boxes saying you're delivering them for 'Doctor Jones, who works on the third floor in Biochemistry', you'll likely be allowed to go through, great for a fact finding mission.
Posted by: Lok1 :) Oct 19 2009, 03:37 AM
- Don't expect to go on head to head with a Knigh Errent vechial with a armour of 36 and expect to have a happy endeding.
- Always rember you get a point of edge for takeing a critical glitch like a man,
- Shoot the messenger.
- Lightning bolt and aircraft don't mix
- If you have a choice of faceing the strang creature from the sweres or just running into the blast holl that you made into a basment. Chose the second option (I'll spend the rest of my life wondering what the fuck made that ROAR! But at least I'll HAVE a "rest of my life".
Posted by: Harboe Oct 20 2009, 12:41 PM
Ehm... not to sound stupid, but what is Cardio?
Posted by: DWC Oct 20 2009, 12:44 PM
Cardiovascular exercise. Running, biking, swimming, or anything else focused on improving the health of your heart and the body's efficiency in oxygen use.
Posted by: Neraph Oct 20 2009, 03:54 PM
It's a way to imply the Athletics skill group.
Posted by: NeoSilver Oct 20 2009, 04:40 PM
If you need to be subtle and need a distraction, pull the fire alarm or hold a lighter to the sprinkler head. All the distracion of explosives, with out being as obvious.
Don't burn all your karma on a single action, no matter how much you need to make sure.
You can miss the jump. You probably will. Just make a grab roll on the way down.
When in doubt, when it all seems darkest, take refuge in audacity: Kick the antagonist's door in and deal with him, face-to-face like.
Good antagonists are reasonable. Great ones just act it.
Dreaming you kill someone happens. It's only a problem when you wake up next to the corpse with the murder weapon in hand.
Posted by: Sixgun_Sage Oct 23 2009, 06:21 PM
In the right light a tennisball with a hoop earring looks alot like a hand grenade and makes bluffing the security team trying to stop your extraction act alot more friendly. If that doesn't work, use the real thing, no one trusts their armor that much.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 23 2009, 07:50 PM
Ahhhh.. that is where the Indirect option benefits you greatly... no longer need to see the Tag...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: cndblank Oct 23 2009, 08:01 PM
A wicked idea.
Still it has been established that... for a Mana Barrier,
A guy on a motor cycle will get nailed and goes splat.
A guy in a closed car will not.
So the guy in the car was untouched by the mana barrier.
For a physical Barrier the bike would hit first (which might be bad for the driver but the Physical Barrier is likely gone.
So lets say we have a limited physical barrier (living material only)
A guy on a motor cycle gets nailed by the barrier and goes splat.
A guy in a closed car would go right on through if the same laws applied to both barriers.
And since I doubt any GM is going to let you cast a Physical Barrier (living Material only) and splat the T-bird crew or commit mass murder on the monorail, I think it would be safe to say it does.
So does he have to hanging out to count?
So would a guy wearing a cup be safe? Nothing is exposed.
What if he tucked them up in his body?
What about someone in a chem sealed or full security armor?
Also you get armor against Physical Barriers so why wouldn't his armor apply?
At best I would let say going through the barrier racked them, but they made it through.
JaronK
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 23 2009, 08:03 PM
As for lightning bolt, it deals physical dammage that has the secondary effect of electric dammage. Check pages196-197 and 154 of SR4 if you don't beleive me. (can someone give me the page numbers for SR4A)
That said while were on the topic of electricty just a few things you can do with this brand of magic.
- Screw up equipment (pritty standerd)
- Activate plastic explosives. (Yes their resistant to heat, but not electricty)
- Make someone think they were struck by real lightning. Its the awakened world, and most likely seattle. Great way to get docwagon called. (Why you would want to I have no idea)
Electricity does not tend to activate Plastic Explosives unless they are using electrical detonators (which is actually pretty common)... Just sayin... Of course, Electricity at Natural Lightning Power Levels (1.21 Gigawatts; Sorry had to do it) just might...
C4 is not resistant to heat, it burns quite nicely... Hell, I used to cook my MRE's with C4 when I was in the Field... freaked people out from time to time
Keep the Faith
Posted by: Brazilian_Shinobi Oct 23 2009, 08:28 PM
Keep the Faith
You know, this is the kind of thing that makes people seat on other tables AWAY from you
Posted by: Matsci Oct 23 2009, 08:48 PM
C4 is not resistant to heat, it burns quite nicely... Hell, I used to cook my MRE's with C4 when I was in the Field... freaked people out from time to time
Keep the Faith
Arsenal Sayz
For example, an electric detonator (or a whole circuit of them) can be set off by a spell using the elemental effect of electricity—this is obviously bad if it happens unintentionally, but it can also be done on purpose (if a character has no exploder, for example).
Solution? Keep the bloodly detonators out of the explosives.
Posted by: JaronK Oct 23 2009, 09:47 PM
But as long as they are part of a live metahuman I don't think they could be targeted specifically, the same way I would not allow the use of a "Wreck cybereyes" spells to blind you foes with minimal drain.
The thing is, the physical barrier spell doesn't target anything. You can't have Stunbolt (Brains Only) or Wreck (cybereyes) because those are combat spells and have to target the whole person, but here we're talking about a wall that's only solid to certain objects. They run into it, you don't target it at them. Also it's a manipulation spell, not a combat spell (remember, elemental manipulations at least can hit things you can't see). If you used Poltergeist you could fling something at stuff you can't see, and this is a similar principle. So, I think it works. Of course, your enemies can see the barrier, but that might not be enough to save them.
JaronK
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 23 2009, 11:22 PM
Solution? Keep the bloodly detonators out of the explosives.
Exactly right... without detonators, most modern explosives are extrememly stable...
Mercury of Fulminate (most setonators are made from this), however, is not so much...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: Hound Oct 24 2009, 05:47 PM
as far as I know, you HAVE to have LOS on whatever you're casting on. Whether the spell is indirect or not doesn't matter. I suppose if it's an LOS(A) spell, then that's fine, but if it's single target, you have to see it/know it's there.
Never steal a car when taking the bus will work (Actually happened in a game once. Two of the team found themselves without transportation, one got on a bus, the other decided to try and steal a car, ended up getting arrested by the Star.) The real lesson is: just because you're a shadowrunner doesn't mean you can't do legal things, especially if you have a fake SIN. Doing things the legal way, when you can, is almost always safer so don't take risks you don't need to.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 24 2009, 06:02 PM
Never steal a car when taking the bus will work (Actually happened in a game once. Two of the team found themselves without transportation, one got on a bus, the other decided to try and steal a car, ended up getting arrested by the Star.) The real lesson is: just because you're a shadowrunner doesn't mean you can't do legal things, especially if you have a fake SIN. Doing things the legal way, when you can, is almost always safer so don't take risks you don't need to.
Indirect Spells DO NOT require LOS to cast...
All you have to see is the point of impact for the spell... anything within the area of effect from that point is subject to the spell's effects (whether they are behind cover or not), The big benefit to this is the Spells secondary effects, if any, as most elemental Indirect Spells have secondary effects... that is why they have a much higher drain code than Direct Combat Spells...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: Rad Oct 24 2009, 07:33 PM
> K-10 + Capsules Rounds + Sniper Rifle = Great assassination method. Use on bodyguards.
(My team did this in Ghost Cartels once, turned the mark's super-adept bodyguards against him, then sat back with a readied action to headshot anyone who didn't follow the "script.")
> In the hands of an expert rigger, a bulldozer is surprisingly effective against a Mitsuhama strike team.
> Step 1: Learn the chemistry skill
> Step 2: Develop an addiction to chemical masking cigarettes
> Step 3: ???
> Step 4: Profit!
> Home-built grenades made from liquid explosives and empty beer cans are a refreshing solution to any problem--just pull the tab and enjoy!
> Always keep a case of beer-grenades in the car in case you get pulled over.
> When breaking into, blowing up, or otherwise performing a run that involves a facility of some kind, *always* get a detailed map of the water, sewer, and gas/electric/data lines for the general area, as well as a run down of any neighboring buildings--type, purpose, owners ect. Being able to disrupt utilities or otherwise use them to your advantage is priceless.
> Well-placed explosives in the sewer lines surrounding a building are a great way to get a cleaning crew sent in.
> Posing as a cleaning crew is a great way to gain access to a facility.
> Corpsec is much more keen on letting automated drones into secure areas than a metahuman cleaning crew.
> Your standard cleaning drone can carry 10 liters of liquid explosives and has a built-in spray nozzle.
> Putting Warp in the ventilation system is great for morale
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 24 2009, 07:58 PM
(My team did this in Ghost Cartels once, turned the mark's super-adept bodyguards against him, then sat back with a readied action to headshot anyone who didn't follow the "script.")
> In the hands of an expert rigger, a bulldozer is surprisingly effective against a Mitsuhama strike team.
> Step 1: Learn the chemistry skill
> Step 2: Develop an addiction to chemical masking cigarettes
> Step 3: ???
> Step 4: Profit!
> Home-built grenades made from liquid explosives and empty beer cans are a refreshing solution to any problem--just pull the tab and enjoy!
> Always keep a case of beer-grenades in the car in case you get pulled over.
> When breaking into, blowing up, or otherwise performing a run that involves a facility of some kind, *always* get a detailed map of the water, sewer, and gas/electric/data lines for the general area, as well as a run down of any neighboring buildings--type, purpose, owners ect. Being able to disrupt utilities or otherwise use them to your advantage is priceless.
> Well-placed explosives in the sewer lines surrounding a building are a great way to get a cleaning crew sent in.
> Posing as a cleaning crew is a great way to gain access to a facility.
> Corpsec is much more keen on letting automated drones into secure areas than a metahuman cleaning crew.
> Your standard cleaning drone can carry 10 liters of liquid explosives and has a built-in spray nozzle.
> Putting Warp in the ventilation system is great for morale
How Rude... But I love them...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: JaronK Oct 25 2009, 06:48 AM
We're talking about indirect wall spells, which do indeed have an area. You have to see where you cast the spell, but once cast it just sits there. That's the point... you cast a limited wall spell, and try to get the enemies to run into it (casting it directly in front of a moving car such that the wall takes up the whole road makes this much easier).
So yes, you do need to have LOS to whatever you're casting on, but you're casting on a point in space that you can see, and then letting other people who you can't see (because they're in a car or whatever) run into it.
JaronK
Posted by: tisoz Oct 25 2009, 11:24 AM
I do recall having the mana barrier (and by derivation your testicle/brain and by association computer barriers) in 2nd edition and having them work like you describe.
Then 3rd edition came out and I also found Dumpshock. I don't know if the edition change mandated the changing the way the spell worked or if it was a DS discussion and maybe a FAQ answer that was quoted, but I do know the mana barrier tactic worked against motorcycle riders, but no longer worked against people in an enclosed vehicle.
I'd say your derivatives would follow that precedent.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 25 2009, 03:25 PM
Then 3rd edition came out and I also found Dumpshock. I don't know if the edition change mandated the changing the way the spell worked or if it was a DS discussion and maybe a FAQ answer that was quoted, but I do know the mana barrier tactic worked against motorcycle riders, but no longer worked against people in an enclosed vehicle.
I'd say your derivatives would follow that precedent.
There is indeed precedent, but you have to watch how it is applied, because applied too literally and you cannot apply direct combat spells to Military Armor Clad Opponents... also, there is precedent in SR4A that Elemental Spell effects can affect someone completely enclosed in said armor/vehicles/etc. with no intervention of said armor, etc.
Goes both ways... I would adjudicate it on a case-by-case basis...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: tisoz Oct 25 2009, 04:55 PM
Goes both ways... I would adjudicate it on a case-by-case basis...
Keep the Faith
Until the Military Armor makes them resemble a tank, their aura is going to leak through where it presses against the wearer and make them a viable target.
Elemental effects can go around corners, etcetera as they have become a physical thing and so you have to track what that physical thing could do.
I think I am done discussing this, and derailing the thread. Just remember, if you try using a tactic where it's conforming to the rules was debated, the GM may not agree with you. Likewise, as the GM, if you introduce a tactic, plan on the players quickly adopting it.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 25 2009, 05:13 PM
Elemental effects can go around corners, etcetera as they have become a physical thing and so you have to track what that physical thing could do.
I think I am done discussing this, and derailing the thread. Just remember, if you try using a tactic where it's conforming to the rules was debated, the GM may not agree with you. Likewise, as the GM, if you introduce a tactic, plan on the players quickly adopting it.
No Arguments and No Doubt...
Keep the Faith
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