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Posted by: Joe Chummer Oct 12 2009, 02:08 AM

Bear in mind that I'm new to SR4. I love how the Matrix rules have been streamlined compared to 2nd and 3rd Edition, but I'm just not 100% sure how to use them.

Let's say I want to hack into the node/nexus/site for Aztechnology's Magical R&D division, and I'm sitting in a local coffee house. How exactly -- in game terms and mechanics -- do I go about doing this? Let's assume I don't yet know the direct address to this site (for obvious reasons), and the site isn't in an isolated, wired, off-the-grid network.

Posted by: Weaver95 Oct 12 2009, 02:16 AM

dammit. I can look into this further when I get home from work - I don't have my books here with me.

Posted by: Weaver95 Oct 12 2009, 02:54 AM

also - for the matrix (and real life internet) challenged, Hacking Exposed by Stuart McClure is a good place to start learning what it is to hack into a network. it's written in 'normal people' language and is laid out fairly well. it can give you some pointers on how hacking works in the real world. From there you can extrapolate into the matrix of 2072 with your own ideas.

Posted by: Joe Chummer Oct 12 2009, 03:37 AM

Here's the start of what I mean.

1. If I don't know the node/nexus ID, I'm assuming I can't just browse for it; after all, AZT probably isn't going to broadcast their Thaumaturgical R&D address for everyone to find. That would be silly, right?

2. Okay, then let's say a press an ex-Azzie researcher for the info, and since he's got a combat ax to grind with them for their research burning him into a mundane, he's more than welcome to share the ID for the node -- assuming the ID is still valid and hasn't been moved since he got extracted. So I try to access the node without an account, since I don't have one yet. W/o an account I get public access, right? But since this node probably isn't designed with public access in mind, will all the alarms go off immediately, or will there be some kind of page along the lines of "Bienvenido a Aztechnology! There is nothing of interest here. Would you like to visit one of our partnered sites? We suggest trying a new Cherry Zap fruity bar from Stuffer Shack! ™ Full of vitality and nutrients guaranteed to get your blood moving on even the slowest of days!"

3. Do you (your persona, that is) have to be in the public access area of a node in order to Hack on the Fly or do other actions that will give you actual access to data on the node, or can you do that right from your node of origin? From what I understand you can't subscribe to a node (initiate data access/alteration/etc. and other things) without at least user level account access.

Posted by: The Monk Oct 12 2009, 05:06 AM

Okay, this is what I would have you do (keep in mind I'm coming from the point of view of my own games, so this may not be how others may handle it).

1) Data Search the player doesn't know the nexus ID this is an extended Search+Browse Test. The Threshold may be high if the node is not public knowledge. If this is a flat out national secret then this cannot be used.

If my player succeeds in this, I usually point him to some site or person that is rumored to know the piece of info (nexus ID). Then there is a short role-playing opportunity where he tries to get the info.

2) Hack on the Fly I don't know why but in my game, time is always an issue, so its pretty much this option.

I ask my player what programs he has loaded, and its an Extended Hacking+Exploit. The threshold depends on what sort of access he wants (public, security, admin). For every roll he makes, I roll a Firewall+Analyze if I make a threshold equal to his Stealth program (assuming he's running one), the system goes on alert.

If the alert happens before he breaks in this increases his threshold by +4 (this is an increase in Firewall). At this point I have to determine what kinds of responses the alert triggers. Once this happens the Stealth program goes out the door, you are detected.

If you break in without triggering an alert, any IC or spiders are going have to run a matrix perception on you to detect your presence. This is an opposed Comp+Analyze vs Hacking+Stealth. If you are detected the node goes on alert (+4 to firewall).

If all goes well, I determine that whatever you do is something that your access level grants you. If it is, its automatic (or you might have to roll a computer+ program test), if it isn't you will have to roll hacking+program to do an action. Every time you do an action that your access level does not grant the system gets another matrix perception test (that's another opposed test).

And that pretty much it!

Posted by: Joe Chummer Oct 12 2009, 05:33 AM

If it's a national secret (i.e. not public knowledge or purposefully hidden knowledge), then I'm guessing I'd have to (going along with the scenario) break into a local AZT office, hack myself an account on their local node (or just stand outside the building or be in signal range, but I doubt an office's nexus wouldn't reach outside), then do some data mining on that office's node and hope there's a record of the node I want? This is, of course, assuming the R&D node isn't a disavowed company secret only the higher ups are privvy to.


Doesn't public access require no account and thus needs no Hack on the Fly test? Public access is like wandering into the lobby of a big building w/o an appointment. User access is either being a low level employee or being someone with an appointment: you either already have a key to your desk or are ushered to where you need to be. You can't be arrested for standing in the lobby, but would a secret facility even HAVE a lobby? I'm assuming public access doesn't even exist on nexi like these...?


So if an spider (or IC) doesn't win the test, does he simply assume you're legit and go about his business? What is to keep him from running Analyze on you over and over again? Also, if you log in with a legitimate account (i.e. you DON'T Spoof or Hack on the Fly), will a spider or IC still Analyze you? If you're using legit credentials (as opposed to credentials you just manufactured), what would possibly mark you as a threat? I mean, do spiders periodically run Analyze on every single legit user in the system, or just on the suspicious-looking ones?


I'd think if you did an action that your access level doesn't grant, the system would just say "ACCESS DENIED" and go on its merry way, and the action doesn't work, no dice roll necessary. This is how things work in the real world, anyway. For example: In a Linux system, if I'm logged into something as a standard user and I try to do something that requires admin/root access, if I don't have the admin password (or my account isn't on the list of users that have admin privileges), then the command I used does absolutely nothing.

Posted by: Joe Chummer Oct 12 2009, 05:54 AM

Unwired, pg 56: "The Matrix is not real."

Aw, hell. Would've been nice to know that ontological nugget before I got 1/4 of the way through the Matrix book.

Guess I'll go practice some spells instead.

Posted by: The Monk Oct 12 2009, 06:11 AM

Oh yes, I meant user access.

If the spider or IC does not detect you (because you are running stealth) then what it represents is that your icon looks like the clutter of icons in that node. I try to be as descriptive as I can, making a matrix scene as vivid as any other scene. I first describe the node, and describe what his stealth program makes him into.

For example on our last run he hacked into a security guard's commlink. The node looked like an old wild west mining town, dirt roads, tavern, general store, brothel, etc. His icon looked like a tumble weed.

If you are logged in with a legit account, the spider or other users may recognize you. The way I typically do it is that each type of user (user, sec, admin) and perhaps each department has a certain type of icon. So a nurse with a user account in a doc wagon site, has a standard nurse icon. If you are using some one's id to get access, you look like that person. This then becomes a roleplaying scenario:

"Nurse Patrick, what are you doing here, I thought you were on vacation?" This may require some Con checks.

Lastly, if the hacker is accessed with a lower account then necessary to do what he wants to do, I typically describe the node without the icons that he would have to access to do such action. For example if he is that nurse with a user account, but wanted to edit the cameras, the nodes to access the camera does not exist in his view.

A doc wagon matrix site would probably look like a very clean sterile hospital. Nurses, doctors, janitors, security guards and administrators walking about in immaculate lab coats, etc. However, nurses would not see the door leading to the security room with all the camera monitors.

To see the room the hacker would have to run a matrix perception or the hacker has to run his Reality Filter (note, I changed how reality filters work in my games. Besides this benefit, you get the +1 response, but you don't get the -1 response if you fail, the reason is that this would imply that if you don't bother with the reality filter you always get a -1 to your response. And besides, I go through all the trouble thinking up a metaphor for the node, I hate the thought of him just making it into the same boring thing.

But I allow those actions with a hacking+program. Don't know why, I think it's in the rules, although I might be wrong.

Also note that when you do something above your access level, the threshold is increased by +3 or +6 for any activity (depending on whether you needed sec, or admin access).

Posted by: DuctShuiTengu Oct 12 2009, 08:28 AM

Let me try giving you a physical world parallel for this:

You're trying to sneak into a busy office building. Rather than trying to ninja your way in, you get yourself a decent business suit and a fake ID badge and go walking in with all the other wage-slaves at the start of their shift. This being a fairly high security building you're trying to get into, after the biometric scanner on the door locks (initial firewall + analyze roll as you try to hack in) they've got security guards there by the door trying to make sure everyone who comes in is legit (spider or IC running analyze on all new log-ins). They check your badge to make sure it seems like it's one of theirs and they check to make sure you fit the badge (going to be lazy and not figure out exactly what rolls go into this). Now, they could check you again, and this time they might get you (you accidentally give the wrong date of birth when they ask) but they've got a lot of other workers who they need to vet on the way in.

As an added security measure, they've got another guard or two patrolling the building doing badge-checks to confirm that nobody got past the guards there at the front door, or slipped in the side door while somebody was out taking a smoke break. (more IC patrolling the node/network running analyze on the various stuff there - unlike the meatspace equivalent, IC doing this isn't actually going to interfere with the people doing their jobs unless those extra 2 programs to run it are degrading the node's performance). Once again, they could check you over and over, but they've got a lot of other people to check too, so unless you've done something to arouse suspicion, they're not going to devote that much of their attention to you. However, they are going to keep patrolling, so you might bump into them again and have to go through another round of checks. And if you stick around long enough, you'll probably be facing a third, fourth, or even fifth instance of them making sure you're legit (Unlike RL security guards, IC doesn't get bored and go do something else) until either you leave the building (logging off of the node or network they're set to patrol) or they spot that you don't belong.

Posted by: limejello10512 Oct 12 2009, 05:00 PM

Actually I would think something like that would be kept on a closed system (depending on the importance). IE no matrix access no adress to find. If you want to hack it you have to plug in directly or install a wireless radio (a 10 nuyen rating 1 can connect to the hackers or a freind's comlink and boom you have matrix access). So you know what that means: Break out the team's streat samurai/adept/combat mage cause it's time fight your way through a facility. This would be a good old fasioned dungeon crawl and the treasure chest at the end is the closed system.

If it's less important and is online with a secret adress....hack into a corporate employess comlink (should be an easy hack too) do a search of other links he's interfaced with and follow those leads till you find one who's logged onto the adress recently....maybe install a worm or two and have them help you search.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Oct 12 2009, 11:10 PM

Everything is online, only the most rediculously secure sites whose operations can be done without some kind of online access will be completely dark. THe list of places that could actually operate to that level of self sufficiency will be very slight.

Even a user account is not a guarantee hence why user accounts require a hacking + exploit. Now for a mall or retail node yes they are going to have user accounts freely available so you can access their system. Secured research nodes, not so much. So your going to need to hack your way into a user account (or higher).

Now if, you know where the target is, and can access it from the grid then I recommend a place like a coffin motel sitting next to said cybercafe so you can slowly and carefully probe the target. The biggest plus tot his is, you do your nice long extended test but the system only gets one throw to see you when you log on.

The other thing to higher level access nodes. User accounts are common theres going to be hundreds if not thousands of them online at any one time on the busier systems. Security and Admin accounts not so much. So if admin Bob is online and sees a notation that another admin account has logged on but didn't recieve a greeting from Admin Tom or TIm he may get suspicious.

Posted by: limejello10512 Oct 12 2009, 11:27 PM

no it isn't a secret research base is going to have an independent network and is not connected to the matrix. you have to fight your way in.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Oct 12 2009, 11:39 PM

I don't understand why you think so, have you ever tried working from an off the grid location even in this day and age and get anything technical or research related done? I have, it's a pain in the butt. Plus a basic conciet of the setting is by nature everything is connected to the matrix somehow some where. Now that connection might not just be a blind address in the matrix. It may be a connection to a few other Aztechnology nodes in pyramids somewhere but literally having a site without matrix connection in 2072 is like having a site without a telephone connection ins 2009. It just doesn't happen it's one of the basic conciets of the setting.

Now a perfectly good reason for you to need on site access is the other points of access are themselves murderously well firewalled. Take the ZO. Theoretically hacking the ZO is as simple as pointing a satelite uplink at it and starting a roll. In reality unless your coming in from a recognized site (such as one of the AAA nodes which ar ehtemsleves nightmares to get into) all this approach will likely accomplish is getting your brain fried or getting a thor shot dropped on you once the trace program finishes running.

Posted by: Linda_pi Oct 13 2009, 07:34 PM

Id love to read for this. But one question, is there an edition with the Latin verses translated?

Posted by: Orcus Blackweather Oct 14 2009, 06:41 PM

This is a common misconception. Regardless of the level of security involved, everything is connected. eventually the guards working at the Uber-Secret research facility need to get paid. In 2070 they connect to their bank and poof money appeared. That money came from somewhere, and doesn't just disappear into thin air. What happens when said security guard wants to check his schedule for the week? He woke up one morning, and realized that he forgot to download his work schedule for the week. Perhaps the level of paranoia is high enough that the guards work and live in the same site. Do they get to call their girlfriends? Even if the security is that tight, what happens when the evil shadow runners come in? If there is no way to call for help, then none will come. How does the Uber-Secret research facility report its findings? Order new supplies? Replace all of the dead guards from the last shadowrunner convention they hosted?

The answer to all of these things is that even the most secure location has a secure connection to somewhere less secure. Perhaps there are a dozen nodes to pass through. For the legitimate user with credentials, this pass through is seamless and fast. A hacker will need to search each of the 11 preceding nodes to find the correct one.