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Posted by: Henraldo Oct 27 2009, 12:29 AM

Is there anyway using rules as written to take a critter power that is normally a complex action and make it into a simple action?

Posted by: Ayeohx Oct 27 2009, 12:51 AM

Not that I know of man. Besides the GM saying "It's a Simple Action". Without extremely good reasons though I'd punch the GM for such douchebaggery.

Posted by: Henraldo Oct 27 2009, 12:55 AM

yeah, I am trying to avoid getting punched. but i need super ninja critter with mist form to show up faster than a complex action.

Posted by: Ayeohx Oct 27 2009, 12:59 AM

No way around this being a necessity? Could be a overly powerful critter. But hell, if it makes for a good story it's time to make an exception. Don't expect the players to understand though. They may feel a bit hosed due to GM jacking with game mechanics. But it is totally your call.

Posted by: Henraldo Oct 27 2009, 01:03 AM

I want it to be scary. Vampire phys adept mist forms in. attacks pc and mists out.
But it is my experience if any opponent is present past 2 ip. it gets killed

Posted by: Orcus Blackweather Oct 27 2009, 01:07 AM

Create a new critter power called waiting mist

The spirit uses the power, as a complex action, and it takes effect at the beginning of the next phase. So Action 1 the critter uses a complex action to become solid. At the beginning of phase 2 it is fully corporeal, and it takes its next action simultaneously.

Posted by: Ayeohx Oct 27 2009, 01:07 AM

Really? Wow. Aren't vampires magic users by default? Just nuke their asses.

Edit: Oops, sorry. Haven't used a vampire against the teams since 2nd edition SR.
You can still have him reform around a corner and then ambush the party. Even if you made mist form a Simple Action what can he really do? Melee attacks are Complex actions, aren't they?

Posted by: Backgammon Oct 27 2009, 01:28 AM

I find that the "Oooh, cower at my super badass NPC!" thing never works anyway, so I'd just drop it and go at it another angle.

Posted by: Henraldo Oct 27 2009, 01:41 AM

Thinking about it further. It will be dark, Im sure all the players have somesort of thermographic or low light compensation, but maybe Vampire mists forms makes a stealth check to stay hidden in the shadows and then on 2nd IP surprise action and Vampire attacks. Vamps surprise roll should be high enough that most of the PCs will be surprised. 3rd IP mist form back out. does this sound likely?

Posted by: Henraldo Oct 27 2009, 01:42 AM

Don't want them top cower. would like them to be a little scared and have an NPC last nonger than 5 minutes

Posted by: Kagetenshi Oct 27 2009, 01:46 AM

Two critters?

~J

Posted by: Fezig Oct 27 2009, 01:56 AM

A lesson I have learned over my time in shadowrun is that in order to make things last longer, make more of them. With edge and just dumb luck (or lack their of depending on the side), any one entity is highly vulnerable in shadowrun. You want to mess with the PC's and remind them they can be killed? Have more than one enemy per runner, give them multiple initiative passes, and have them get the drop on the PC's. That being said, if the NPC gets surprise you need to plan for the high possibility of a TPK.

Posted by: Henraldo Oct 27 2009, 02:01 AM

yeah totally almost TPK'd them the other night. took 3/5 of the party down with a manaball. But that encounter was Adept, a mage and 3 spirits. I am trying for subtlety in this enounter.

Posted by: Ayeohx Oct 27 2009, 03:04 AM

Sorry Henraldo, I don't think that a vampire has much of a chance against a party of five unless you start taking them out Predator style. One round max is what I see for this encounter; maybe two after initial surprise has worn off. PhysAds are kind of weak. You'd need some uber armor to resist the inital sammies attacks. And be very caution adding more enemies. Recently I've learned that whoever wins the surprise contest usually walks away from the fight. Common sense really, but it is true in SR.
You could have the vampire drop an airborne toxin first; he is immune to toxins and such I believe. Then the group would be jacked and he'd have a fighting chance. He still won't win but the PCs may initially piss their pants.

Posted by: Saint Sithney Oct 27 2009, 03:36 AM

A physad who can manifest in the middle of a group can easily cause some massive problems. If he takes Elemental Strike Sound and a few levels of critical strike, then all he needs is enough hits to do 6DV in order to knock anybody flat with extreme nausea.

Refresher on nausea.



So, no chance for armor to stop the hit, which means he's just rolling against reaction. He can easily swoop in, then suckerpunch and incapacitate the biggest threats. Drop a grenade as a free action then bug out. Pretty excellent terror tactic. Your party will be stone deaf, trying to drag their friend off or find the dropped grenade before it goes off. Nasty.

Posted by: Ayeohx Oct 27 2009, 03:45 AM

Even with the change to a Simple action that situation still takes 2 initiative passes, all of which a team of runners will have a chance to react on. Also, Mist Form does not made a creature intangible or invisible, they are only able to slip through cracks, possible fly and gives him Immunity to Normal Weapons which means a mage/spirit can still nuke his ass. So it's back to the Predator trick. Separate and pick them off. That's a sure way to get a pissed off group though.

Posted by: kzt Oct 27 2009, 06:44 AM

I can think of ways to make an a really effective vampire, but I'd say you'd need to be a mage with a spirit running major concealment to make it work well. And the vampire would need to be essentially playing with the characters, as F9 stunballs work just fine on PCs too. Then having the end of the session consist of the well tied up characters getting drained dry probably isn't going to be much fun.

As a useful suggestion, have the vampire in a 3 or more point domain aspected to him and running at many IPs.

If you want to show how dangerous the vampire is I'd suggest one or more very competent likable NPCs would make excellent hors d'oeuvres.

Posted by: Jhaiisiin Oct 28 2009, 09:31 PM

Alternatively, have the PC's get distracted by an area effect noise spell (chaos or a variation), and make sure they're standing over a grate. Vampire mists up from grate, goes solid and starts unleashing hell. Make him a higher level Mystic Adept and it'd be well within his ability to drop in whatever spells he needed.

Posted by: kzt Oct 28 2009, 11:25 PM

My scenario used Foreboding. With edge. You know, when you are trying to fight someone with a F8 concealment on them and they drop Foreboding with 9 net hits on you it really seriously sucks to be you. That -17 to perception means that you almost certainly won't notice the vampire sneaking up on your (even with her 9 point armor spell running) before she kills you with death touch.