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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Sixth World Almanac preview pic up

Posted by: JM Hardy Jun 17 2010, 11:57 PM

I just received a preview pic of the Sixth World Almanac--it's http://www.shadowrun4.com/wordpress/2010/06/sixth-world-almanac-preview/, so take a look. Just a note--that's not a final print on the right, it's the cover stuck on some dummy pages. Hope you like the looks of it!

Jason H.

Posted by: Caadium Jun 18 2010, 12:02 AM

It's a pretty map.

Posted by: Tyro Jun 18 2010, 12:15 AM

Looks nummy.

I want one.

Posted by: Method Jun 18 2010, 12:18 AM

Is the map included in the .pdf? Any chance we can purchase copies of the map separately?

Posted by: JM Hardy Jun 18 2010, 12:24 AM

QUOTE (Method @ Jun 17 2010, 07:18 PM) *
Is the map included in the .pdf? Any chance we can purchase copies of the map separately?


Both good questions. I think the map will be with the PDF, but I don't believe we are planning to sell the map separately. But plans can change--I'll run it up the flagpole.

Jason H.

Posted by: Endroren Jun 18 2010, 12:49 AM

Ooo - the map is cool. Didn't know it would be fold out. Nice.

Posted by: Tyro Jun 18 2010, 12:57 AM

Yeah, we've been needing a good map update for a LOOOOONG time frown.gif

Posted by: Method Jun 18 2010, 02:23 AM

QUOTE (JM Hardy @ Jun 17 2010, 06:24 PM) *
But plans can change--I'll run it up the flagpole.
Awesome! And thanks in advance. As a collector I just don't see paying 50$ for this book and then tacking that map up my wall or even taking to the table to be molested. But if I could shelf one with the book and buy one for use that would be sweet. Printing one from the PDF is a viable alternative but it wouldn't be nearly as purdy.

Posted by: Brazilian_Shinobi Jun 18 2010, 03:48 AM

What is the size of the map? By the looks, it seems it is A2 paper, right? I don't know, you can go to a professional ploter and get a map on good quality paper for less than U$15 (comparing to current brazilian currency). If you consider that 30% of the book's cost is the map, it doesn't look so expensive to me.

Posted by: JM Hardy Jun 18 2010, 03:55 AM

QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jun 17 2010, 10:48 PM) *
What is the size of the map? By the looks, it seems it is A2 paper, right? I don't know, you can go to a professional ploter and get a map on good quality paper for less than U$15 (comparing to current brazilian currency). If you consider that 30% of the book's cost is the map, it doesn't look so expensive to me.


Yeah, I was talking to my wife about it--she recently had some posters made of her art at a price that seemed sensible. I'll definitely keep poking around on this.

Jason H.

Posted by: Zen Shooter01 Jun 18 2010, 04:27 AM

That map is not the territory.

But it is f!cking awesome!

Posted by: MJBurrage Jun 18 2010, 02:37 PM

A couple critiques of a map that does look nice overall.

  1. The Gulf of Aztlan is labeled the Gulf of Mexico – This does not bother me since I always found Gulf of Aztlan odd sounding, but it is canon as far as I know.
  2. Uruguay is shown on the map – is this correct? or should it be part of Amazonia?
  3. Why was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection used? It wastes a lot of paper space on the far north, and as a result compresses the most interesting portions of the map.
    • A classic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equirectangular_projection would have been much better, for the area covered.
    • By contrast, Rand McNally and the National Geographic Society use/used a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_projection to overcome the problems with the Mercator Projection.
  4. The border line between Quebec and UCAS stops too soon, it should go far enough to indicate that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labrador is part of Quebec, while http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_%28island%29 is part of UCAS.

Posted by: Ryu Jun 18 2010, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jun 18 2010, 05:48 AM) *
What is the size of the map? By the looks, it seems it is A2 paper, right? I don't know, you can go to a professional ploter and get a map on good quality paper for less than U$15 (comparing to current brazilian currency). If you consider that 30% of the book's cost is the map, it doesn't look so expensive to me.

A1, and filled with colour. Yet 50$ for the map alone is too much.

Posted by: MYST1C Jun 18 2010, 04:27 PM

I wonder if that map correctly reflects the new shape of the North Sea coastline after the massive changes caused by the Black Tide in 2011 (half of the Netherlands and parts of northern Germany submerged).

Posted by: Mr. Mage Jun 18 2010, 04:33 PM

That map looks pretty sweet, but I'm more interested in the book itself. Do we have an estimated Street Date? This is certainly one thing I'm looking forward to purchasing right away!

Posted by: JM Hardy Jun 18 2010, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Mr. Mage @ Jun 18 2010, 11:33 AM) *
That map looks pretty sweet, but I'm more interested in the book itself. Do we have an estimated Street Date? This is certainly one thing I'm looking forward to purchasing right away!


I'm not allowed to estimate street dates. Sorry!

Jason H.

Posted by: Mr. Mage Jun 18 2010, 08:12 PM

QUOTE (JM Hardy @ Jun 18 2010, 04:10 PM) *
I'm not allowed to estimate street dates. Sorry!

Jason H.

Oh poo! Not even a street year? Guess I'll have to keep a lookout on the website then...

Posted by: Mesh Jun 18 2010, 10:16 PM

Somebody didn't put away their legos.

Mesh

Posted by: Saint Sithney Jun 18 2010, 10:20 PM

QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jun 18 2010, 07:37 AM) *
Why was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection used? It wastes a lot of paper space on the far north, and as a result compresses the most interesting portions of the map.



Yeah...
seems like the Greenlanders are getting a bit too much play.

Posted by: Mesh Jun 18 2010, 10:27 PM

QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jun 18 2010, 10:37 AM) *
[*]Why was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection used? It wastes a lot of paper space on the far north, and as a result compresses the most interesting portions of the map.[list]


That's the first thought I had when I saw it, but the target audience is American. We like the simple pleasures in life... like squares and rectangles. It's natural that way... like the Earth itself. So save your "mercators" and your "prime meridians" and your fancy oval Earths for the European version, ok? wink.gif

Mesh

Posted by: Congzilla Jun 18 2010, 11:51 PM

Is this going to be a hardback? The cover art looks great btw, who did it?

Posted by: JM Hardy Jun 18 2010, 11:59 PM

QUOTE (Congzilla @ Jun 18 2010, 06:51 PM) *
Is this going to be a hardback? The cover art looks great btw, who did it?


Yes, this will be hardback. The art is by the fabulous http://www.echo-x.com/, who also did the much-discussed Attitude cover.

Jason H.

Posted by: Congzilla Jun 19 2010, 01:41 AM

QUOTE (JM Hardy @ Jun 18 2010, 06:59 PM) *
Yes, this will be hardback. The art is by the fabulous http://www.echo-x.com/, who also did the much-discussed Attitude cover.

Jason H.


I like that cover a lot as well. The pose looks accurate to me. looking at the close ups on her web page I think really shows off how good it actually is. http://www.echo-x.com/Portfolio.aspx?ID=cuidado

Posted by: Sengir Jun 19 2010, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (Mesh @ Jun 18 2010, 11:27 PM) *
That's the first thought I had when I saw it, but the target audience is American. We like the simple pleasures in life... like squares and rectangles.

Mercator maps certainly have their advantages, extrapolating coordinates from a rectangular grid is...oh wait, the "map" doesn't have a bloody grid, probably that clutter on the eastern seaboard (if a world map shows more detail than the regional map in the BBB, you're doing something wrong) was deemed more important.

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jun 19 2010, 07:29 PM

QUOTE (Congzilla @ Jun 19 2010, 03:41 AM) *
I like that cover a lot as well.

IMHO, It's too cluttered and too dependent on details that won't show up on the actual book due to resolution restrictions.

And the loss of details will make it look strange – which is a bit strange, too, since the rest of his work is much more stylized.

Posted by: RunnerPaul Jun 19 2010, 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jun 19 2010, 03:29 PM) *
since the rest of his work is much more stylized.


Her work.

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jun 19 2010, 07:49 PM

Whatever.

Posted by: Tzeentch Jun 19 2010, 09:16 PM

QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jun 18 2010, 02:37 PM) *
[*]Why was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection used? It wastes a lot of paper space on the far north, and as a result compresses the most interesting portions of the map.

    -- I can tell you the most likely answer but you probably won't like it smile.gif

    -- They drew the borders (probably in Illustrator) right on top of the http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/features/blue_marble.html images. So, they downloaded the image, loaded it, drew on it, and voila smile.gif So don't expect to see any evidence of sea level rise or toxic zones (unless they retouched the image, but I don't see any evidence of that in the preview map).

    -- Which is a bit convenient if they release the vector layer itself as then we'll actually have a data layer with an implicit projection scheme. Saves people like me some time if they want to create a basic Shadowrun GIS layer (yes, I could heads-up digitize the borders but this would at least be the official lines) smile.gif

    Posted by: Penta Jun 19 2010, 09:47 PM

    It shouldn't be discounted that, for Americans (and I imagine Canadians), Mercator projections win simply because of familiarity: Mercator is the projection used on classroom maps in primary and secondary education, almost without exception.

    Posted by: Heath Robinson Jun 20 2010, 03:47 AM

    The cover is a splattering of bright colours. I think I see every primary colour in there. This is not a recipe for a visually pleasing piece of art in my opinion.


    Also, you rolled a four.

    Posted by: Adam Jun 20 2010, 05:02 AM

    QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jun 19 2010, 03:49 PM) *
    Whatever.

    No, Echo is a woman, not a "whatever."

    Posted by: Bull Jun 20 2010, 05:04 AM

    I find it kinda funny... I first started hanging out online with SHadowrunners back in '96, and I think one of the very first things I saw people talking about was how cool it would be to see a map of the Shadowrun World. This is a question that has come up in nearly every "What's Up With Shadowrun" Seminar at the cons for as long as I've been attending.

    And we finally get one, and people are complaining about the shape of the map? Really?

    *chuckle*

    Wow.

    Bull

    Posted by: DireRadiant Jun 20 2010, 05:13 AM

    You know what... I'm almost tempted to build a SR4A google map overlay set from this....

    Posted by: Cardul Jun 20 2010, 06:28 AM

    QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 20 2010, 12:04 AM) *
    I find it kinda funny... I first started hanging out online with SHadowrunners back in '96, and I think one of the very first things I saw people talking about was how cool it would be to see a map of the Shadowrun World. This is a question that has come up in nearly every "What's Up With Shadowrun" Seminar at the cons for as long as I've been attending.

    And we finally get one, and people are complaining about the shape of the map? Really?

    *chuckle*

    Wow.

    Bull


    Bull....this is the Internet. If you were giving people a billion dollars, they would find a reason to complain.

    Posted by: Martin_DeVries_Institute Jun 20 2010, 06:29 AM

    Yeah, man. This is Dumpshock. I've been here two weeks and I already know nobody's ever happy with anything. You've got no excuse to not know this, Bull!

    Posted by: Bull Jun 20 2010, 06:38 AM

    It's disheartening, no matter how often I see it...

    Posted by: Tzeentch Jun 20 2010, 06:40 AM

    I for one am REALLY looking forward to it. But I'm a geographer so that's sort of my thing. smile.gif

    Posted by: Jaid Jun 20 2010, 08:21 AM

    QUOTE (Cardul @ Jun 20 2010, 01:28 AM) *
    Bull....this is the Internet. If you were giving people a billion dollars, they would find a reason to complain.

    ah dangit, now i have to pay taxes on that billion dollars!

    i *hate* giving money to the government!

    thanks for nothing, jerks nyahnyah.gif

    (you mean like that? biggrin.gif )

    Posted by: hermit Jun 20 2010, 10:15 AM

    Wow, Egypt is huge. does Egyt get a writeup too?

    Also, nice work overall, though I'll reserve final judgement to when I see the map. Finally an update to Wordman's map though.

    Posted by: Sengir Jun 20 2010, 10:44 AM

    QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 20 2010, 05:04 AM) *
    I find it kinda funny... I first started hanging out online with SHadowrunners back in '96, and I think one of the very first things I saw people talking about was how cool it would be to see a map of the Shadowrun World. This is a question that has come up in nearly every "What's Up With Shadowrun" Seminar at the cons for as long as I've been attending.

    ...and the result is what usually happens with such a long-awaited project: The developers try to squeeze in far too many features to make sure everybody gets what he hoped for, and the final prodct ends up way overloaded and poorly structured. In this case the intention obviously was to let everybody (well, everybody who doesn't live in Russia) see a city close to home on the map, and the result is cluttered like an anthill

    Posted by: JM Hardy Jun 20 2010, 11:56 AM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 20 2010, 05:15 AM) *
    Wow, Egypt is huge. does Egyt get a writeup too?

    Also, nice work overall, though I'll reserve final judgement to when I see the map. Finally an update to Wordman's map though.


    Yes, Egypt is in there.

    Jason H.

    Posted by: MYST1C Jun 20 2010, 11:57 AM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 20 2010, 12:15 PM) *
    Wow, Egypt is huge. does Egyt get a writeup too?

    Egypt annexed the irradiated remains of Libya in 2014 after the UN had finished evacuating the last survivors of the http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/10_Minute_War.

    Posted by: Mesh Jun 20 2010, 12:13 PM

    QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 20 2010, 06:44 AM) *
    ...and the result is what usually happens with such a long-awaited project: The developers try to squeeze in far too many features to make sure everybody gets what he hoped for, and the final prodct ends up way overloaded and poorly structured. In this case the intention obviously was to let everybody (well, everybody who doesn't live in Russia) see a city close to home on the map, and the result is cluttered like an anthill


    You seem to have gotten a lot more out of the preview taken with a personal digital camera and posted on a forum than I did, but you missed the lego so I'm going to guess your review is overloaded, poorly structured, and cluttered like an anthill. smile.gif

    Mesh

    Posted by: hermit Jun 20 2010, 12:55 PM

    QUOTE (MYST1C @ Jun 20 2010, 01:57 PM) *
    Egypt annexed the irradiated remains of Libya in 2014 after the UN had finished evacuating the last survivors of the http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/10_Minute_War.

    I know. I did not know this includes Algeria, Tunisia and Sudan somehow. I am also fairly certain these countries were mentioned in SoE, so I assume this is another case of annexiation because of Crash 2.0, like PCC's takeover of Ute? Curious to see where this takes Egypt. After all, it would be the only possible power to balance out with Arabia in the region then, what with Israel having walled in.

    Posted by: Sengir Jun 20 2010, 01:05 PM

    QUOTE (Mesh @ Jun 20 2010, 12:13 PM) *
    You seem to have gotten a lot more out of the preview taken with a personal digital camera and posted on a forum than I did

    The city markings are somewhat hard to miss...and I doubt their number will decrease on a higher-res picture wink.gif

    Posted by: Buio Jun 20 2010, 09:33 PM

    I complained a bit on the official site in a comment about the map showing the old US state borders, which I think they should have kept off the world map (as it isn't consistent with the rest of the world not having them, it clutters the map somewhat more, and it is also already featured in the North American map in the main book). That said, my complaint is minor for me which sometimes does not come through in comments. I really like the map size, colors and _that it is done_ so I still like it a lot.

    The cover art is a matter of taste, and it doesn't suit mine at all, sorry. Luckily it's the content that's important. The illustration on the opened preview page looks superb.

    Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Jun 21 2010, 06:30 AM

    I can't wait for this book.

    That being said, the cover is pretty garish. I don't dislike the 'art' itself, but the color scheme on it is eye searing.

    Map looks pretty. Mine will probably end up full color copied and hung up.

    Posted by: nemafow Jun 21 2010, 07:29 AM

    Mmmmm, I would like to see one of these in person, as I have been wishing for a map to explain things to my players.

    Posted by: Dread Moores Jun 21 2010, 07:39 AM

    QUOTE (Cardul @ Jun 20 2010, 02:28 AM) *
    Bull....this is the Internet. If you were giving people a billion dollars, they would find a reason to complain.


    Hey! I wasn't complaining! I asked for a billion and one. grinbig.gif

    Posted by: Buio Jun 21 2010, 11:34 AM

    QUOTE (nemafow @ Jun 21 2010, 09:29 AM) *
    Mmmmm, I would like to see one of these in person, as I have been wishing for a map to explain things to my players.


    Wordman's 2062 world map is a superb map that was available since long, even if it's not up to date and not official. And it's vector graphics so you can print it as huge as you like.

    Posted by: hermit Jun 21 2010, 12:14 PM

    An Update of the Wordman map based on the SR Almanach map for printout would be cool. Not gonna mutilate my map by pinnig it anywhere.

    Posted by: Blade Jun 21 2010, 01:27 PM

    So you're telling me that the art a lot of people said was sexist is drawn by a woman?

    Posted by: Demonseed Elite Jun 21 2010, 01:36 PM

    QUOTE (Blade @ Jun 21 2010, 08:27 AM) *
    So you're telling me that the art a lot of people said was sexist is drawn by a woman?


    That'd be correct, yes.

    Posted by: hermit Jun 21 2010, 02:08 PM

    Women can be sexist too, you know.

    Posted by: Buio Jun 21 2010, 02:36 PM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 21 2010, 02:14 PM) *
    An Update of the Wordman map based on the SR Almanach map for printout would be cool. Not gonna mutilate my map by pinnig it anywhere.


    I hope someone skilled with Illustrator picks that idea up after SWA is released. I've done a vector map for a completely other game, but it was amateurish at best.

    Posted by: Prime Mover Jun 21 2010, 02:41 PM

    QUOTE (Blade @ Jun 21 2010, 09:27 AM) *
    So you're telling me that the art a lot of people said was sexist is drawn by a woman?


    And one of her favorite models, Miss Miami 06 was the subject. As mentioned on her facebook wall.

    Edited for clairty

    Posted by: Kid Chameleon Jun 21 2010, 02:43 PM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 21 2010, 06:14 AM) *
    An Update of the Wordman map based on the SR Almanach map for printout would be cool. Not gonna mutilate my map by pinnig it anywhere.


    You could get a frame for it if you wanted to hang it up, sans damage. I did that with the original SR art.

    Posted by: Tzeentch Jun 21 2010, 08:40 PM

    -- Depending on how the print map looks you may have a topologically correct shapefile/Google Earth KMZ for Shadowrun after I get the book smile.gif

    Posted by: Lucyfersam Jun 22 2010, 03:07 PM

    QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jun 21 2010, 03:40 PM) *
    -- Depending on how the print map looks you may have a topologically correct shapefile/Google Earth KMZ for Shadowrun after I get the book smile.gif


    That would be awesome beyond words...

    Lucy

    Posted by: hermit Jun 22 2010, 03:56 PM

    QUOTE (Lucyfersam @ Jun 22 2010, 05:07 PM) *
    That would be awesome beyond words...

    Lucy

    Oh yes it would be.

    Would the file include all other info found via googlemaps, and just offer another overlay then? I admit I never tried to mod google earth before.

    QUOTE
    You could get a frame for it if you wanted to hang it up, sans damage. I did that with the original SR art.

    True, that's a possibility.

    Posted by: Tzeentch Jun 22 2010, 07:11 PM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 22 2010, 04:56 PM) *
    Oh yes it would be.
    Would the file include all other info found via googlemaps, and just offer another overlay then? I admit I never tried to mod google earth before.

    -- The KMZ would just be an overlay for Google Earth/Google Maps (with some annotation). The shapefile will be much more useful, suitable for actual analysis if you wished. You can manipulate shapefiles in pretty much any GIS package ever made (SAGA GIS is a good free package).

    Posted by: Heath Robinson Jun 22 2010, 07:16 PM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 21 2010, 03:08 PM) *
    Women can be sexist too, you know.

    Or the market they sell their work to can be.

    Posted by: Congzilla Jun 24 2010, 01:04 AM

    QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Jun 22 2010, 03:16 PM) *
    Or the market they sell their work to can be.


    Ever consider women find the female figure as beautiful as us males do? I like both covers she has coming, I actually like the majority of the art I saw on her site. If you don't like it as a cover blame the editor that accepted it not the artist that created it.

    Posted by: Hrimfaxi Jun 24 2010, 06:35 AM

    I explored the map and noticed that Spitsbergen belongs to the Trans-Polar Aleut Nation. It's strange because Spitsbergen is listed as a part of the Scandinavian Union in Running Wild. When I looked it up in the old SR3 books of a friend, I found some more info: It was a part of Norway in Dragons of the 6th World, which makes sense, since Norway belongs to the Scandinavian Union. In Target Wastelands however, Spitsbergen is a part of the T-PAN again. So what happened there? I'd like to know, because I'm preparing a run into this icy realm.

    Posted by: Heath Robinson Jun 24 2010, 06:48 AM

    QUOTE (Congzilla @ Jun 24 2010, 02:04 AM) *
    Ever consider women find the female figure as beautiful as us males do?

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 21 2010, 03:08 PM) *
    Women can be sexist too, you know.

    Posted by: hermit Jun 24 2010, 07:58 AM

    QUOTE
    Ever consider women find the female figure as beautiful as us males do?

    About 5% of them do.

    QUOTE
    If you don't like it as a cover blame the editor that accepted it not the artist that created it.

    True enough.

    QUOTE
    I explored the map and noticed that Spitsbergen belongs to the Trans-Polar Aleut Nation. It's strange because Spitsbergen is listed as a part of the Scandinavian Union in Running Wild. When I looked it up in the old SR3 books of a friend, I found some more info: It was a part of Norway in Dragons of the 6th World, which makes sense, since Norway belongs to the Scandinavian Union. In Target Wastelands however, Spitsbergen is a part of the T-PAN again. So what happened there? I'd like to know, because I'm preparing a run into this icy realm.

    That's one territory that frequently changes hands because people who draw maps pay little attention to such details. Just assume the newest map is right, and in this case, blame the Crash. the ScandU sold Spitsbergen because, I dunno, mana storms ot shedim polar bears or something. And Running Wild is getting it wrong.


    Posted by: Demonseed Elite Jun 24 2010, 12:35 PM

    I like the idea of shedim polar bears!

    Posted by: Lucyfersam Jun 24 2010, 02:04 PM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 24 2010, 01:58 AM) *
    About 5% of them do.


    Given what I see walking by any rack of magazines, I would say a whole lot more than 5% of women find the female form attractive, even if they are not sexually attracted. Women's magazines have just as high of a preponderance of scantily clad women on the covers as men's magazines.

    Posted by: Kid Chameleon Jun 24 2010, 04:16 PM

    QUOTE (Lucyfersam @ Jun 24 2010, 09:04 AM) *
    Given what I see walking by any rack of magazines, I would say a whole lot more than 5% of women find the female form attractive, even if they are not sexually attracted. Women's magazines have just as high of a preponderance of scantily clad women on the covers as men's magazines.


    That's a different appeal, the 'be like me appeal' that leads to guys with six-pack abs on Men's Health and whatnot.

    Posted by: Lucyfersam Jun 24 2010, 04:33 PM

    QUOTE (Kid Chameleon @ Jun 24 2010, 11:16 AM) *
    That's a different appeal, the 'be like me appeal' that leads to guys with six-pack abs on Men's Health and whatnot.


    Like I said, a non-sexual attraction. The source of the appeal does not affect the end result that sexualized women appeal to both genders considerably more than sexualized men, no sexism necessary.


    Posted by: hermit Jun 24 2010, 04:37 PM

    QUOTE
    Given what I see walking by any rack of magazines, I would say a whole lot more than 5% of women find the female form attractive, even if they are not sexually attracted.

    The point was 'like men do'. Yes, the female form is perceived differently from the male by women, no questioning that.

    Posted by: Tyro Jun 24 2010, 08:37 PM

    In any case, it's closer to 10%.

    Posted by: Congzilla Jun 24 2010, 10:09 PM

    QUOTE (Tyro @ Jun 24 2010, 03:37 PM) *
    In any case, it's closer to 10%.


    I would say it is higher than that, probably more around 50% or more. There is a difference between seeing something as attractive and being sexually attracted to it.

    Posted by: hermit Jun 24 2010, 11:06 PM

    QUOTE
    I would say it is higher than that, probably more around 50% or more. There is a difference between seeing something as attractive and being sexually attracted to it.

    The point is sexual attraction though. 10% is pretty high for an open society. Of course, in societies with stringent segregation of the sexes, 50% or more is a viable assumption.

    Posted by: The Dragon Girl Jun 25 2010, 07:22 PM

    Actually the percentage of the amount of bi and gay girls goes up a -whole- lot when you consider the artistic community by itself and not society as a whole. I can vouch that most of the other female artists I've run across are not straight.

    Posted by: Jaid Jun 25 2010, 08:12 PM

    QUOTE (The Dragon Girl @ Jun 25 2010, 03:22 PM) *
    Actually the percentage of the amount of bi and gay girls goes up a -whole- lot when you consider the artistic community by itself and not society as a whole. I can vouch that most of the other female artists I've run across are not straight.

    no offense, but anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

    Posted by: Brazilian_Shinobi Jun 25 2010, 11:10 PM

    QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 25 2010, 05:12 PM) *
    no offense, but anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.


    Well, you can be correct when you say that among a certain sample of a population, 50% of people have/are 'X' but this sample only represents 5% of the entire population and among the whole population, only 3% have/are 'X'

    Posted by: Kid Chameleon Jun 25 2010, 11:40 PM

    QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 25 2010, 03:12 PM) *
    no offense, but anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.


    Unless she's dated all of them. wink.gif

    Posted by: Red_Cap Jun 26 2010, 04:49 AM

    Cough. Yeah, so, how about that map, eh? Pretty nifty, says I.

    Posted by: Bob Lord of Evil Jun 26 2010, 05:47 AM

    6th World Almanac map...leads to...lesbian discussion.

    LMGDMFAO!!!

    Yeah...sex doesn't sell with you guys at all.

    Posted by: Ancient History Jun 26 2010, 06:24 AM

    http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=31751&view=findpost&p=948725

    Posted by: Bob Lord of Evil Jun 26 2010, 04:41 PM

    QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 26 2010, 06:24 AM) *
    http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=31751&view=findpost&p=948725


    You...pissed off?

    I simply can't believe it! It is SOOO out of character! You seem like such a well adjusted fellow. Sure...you have your stick and there is the dead horse...but other than that perfectly normal.

    Frankly (yeah...there is a little pun in there), get an attorney if you think you actually have a case.

    Posted by: Ancient History Jun 26 2010, 04:55 PM

    It's not a matter for an attorney, but it is fucking insulting. Couldn't even be bothered to hide it.

    Posted by: otakusensei Jun 26 2010, 05:17 PM

    QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 26 2010, 12:55 PM) *
    It's not a matter for an attorney, but it is fucking insulting. Couldn't even be bothered to hide it.

    Fucking shit. Why do people keep trusting and supporting IMR?

    Posted by: Bob Lord of Evil Jun 26 2010, 05:38 PM

    QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 26 2010, 04:55 PM) *
    It's not a matter for an attorney, but it is fucking insulting. Couldn't even be bothered to hide it.


    *looks at Bobby beating the shit out of the dead horse* I guess everybody needs a hobby. biggrin.gif


    QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 26 2010, 05:17 PM) *
    Fucking shit. Why do people keep trusting and supporting IMR?


    If Bobby is Batman...does that make you the Boy Wonder?
    Seriously though, I support IMR because they are putting out product that I like and I am interested in working on. The fact that my support makes blood shoot out of your eyes is just a job perk at this point.


    The 6WA map looks great! Yeah...I'm biased. biggrin.gif

    Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 26 2010, 07:33 PM

    QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 24 2010, 12:58 AM) *
    About 5% of them do.


    Really? And that number comes from where exactly? In my expereince, it is far more than 5%.

    Keep the Faith

    Posted by: Tyro Jun 26 2010, 07:37 PM

    I think Bobby has a point, actually. I'm on his side on this one.

    Posted by: otakusensei Jun 26 2010, 07:53 PM

    QUOTE (Bob Lord of Evil @ Jun 26 2010, 01:38 PM) *
    If Bobby is Batman...does that make you the Boy Wonder?
    Seriously though, I support IMR because they are putting out product that I like and I am interested in working on. The fact that my support makes blood shoot out of your eyes is just a job perk at this point.


    The 6WA map looks great! Yeah...I'm biased. biggrin.gif

    I'd watch it. If your analogy holds you'd be a numbered Goon.

    But I'm nothing in this, I just post on a forum under an assumed non-sense name. However I support AH because I feel he's been done wrong in this situation. And yet he's classy enough not to try to make a legal stink about it.

    Posted by: Bob Lord of Evil Jun 26 2010, 08:38 PM

    QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 26 2010, 08:53 PM) *
    I'd watch it. If your analogy holds you'd be a numbered Goon.

    But I'm nothing in this, I just post on a forum under an assumed non-sense name. However I support AH because I feel he's been done wrong in this situation. And yet he's classy enough not to try to make a legal stink about it.


    "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it. You know, I just... do things. The mob has plans, the cops have plans, Gordon's got plans. You know, they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I'm not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are." The Joker to Harvey Dent.

    Bobby is in this situation because he (like a general that comes to mind) talked shit about his boss and it got back to his boss. Bobby can claim that his ethics were offended by the activities of IMR's upper management...BUT lest we forget...he was FIRED...he didn't quit. I wonder if he had not been shit canned if HE wouldn't be one of those "poor scabs", foolishly supporting IMR.

    Oh...I should add...that I LOVE how Africa looks on the map! biggrin.gif

    Posted by: otakusensei Jun 26 2010, 08:46 PM

    QUOTE (Bob Lord of Evil @ Jun 26 2010, 04:38 PM) *
    "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it. You know, I just... do things. The mob has plans, the cops have plans, Gordon's got plans. You know, they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I'm not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are." The Joker to Harvey Dent.

    Bobby is in this situation because he (like a general that comes to mind) talked shit about his boss and it got back to his boss. Bobby can claim that his ethics were offended by the activities of IMR's upper management...BUT lest we forget...he was FIRED...he didn't quit. I wonder if he had not been shit canned if HE wouldn't be one of those "poor scabs", foolishly supporting IMR.

    Oh...I should add...that I LOVE how Africa looks on the map! biggrin.gif

    Politics now? I liked the Batman stuff better.

    AH is in this situation because the line dev is a hack and management is run by a crook. He was a freelancer, so he can't be fired; but he did call bullshit on the line dev and was removed from the system that contains his finished work and told that it would not be used in the final product or as a template for rewrites.

    Look how that went.

    Posted by: Critias Jun 26 2010, 08:53 PM

    QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 26 2010, 03:53 PM) *
    And yet he's classy enough not to try to make a legal stink about it.

    Yeah, nothing says "classy" like throwing around union-thug terminology like calling people "scabs." ohplease.gif

    If he thinks it's worth taking to court, he should take it to court. If plagiarism happened, it sucks, and I say that as both a writer and an academic; plagiarism is theft, in my mind and in the fields I've chosen to work in. If he thinks he's had his writing stolen from him, he should do something about it in a professional manner.

    If he thinks it's NOT worth taking to court, it'd be great if he'd just shut up about it and stop crapping all over forums he supposedly cares about, supporting a game he supposedly cares about. Just because he's miserable doesn't mean he's got to spread it all over every conversation he finds himself in.

    Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 26 2010, 08:53 PM

    QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 26 2010, 02:46 PM) *
    AH is in this situation because the line dev is a hack and management is run by a crook. He was a freelancer, so he can't be fired; but he did call bullshit on the line dev and was removed from the system that contains his finished work and told that it would not be used in the final product or as a template for rewrites.

    Look how that went.


    Not all individuals have the same opinion as you do...
    Yes, In effect, Bobby was Fired; but maybe "asked to never come back" would be more appropriate...
    Yes, His work was used out of place...

    These are all true...
    But what is done, is done, and there is no going back (especially for this particular Topic)... Why keep beating a horse that has been more than dead for a while now?

    Keep the Faith

    Posted by: Bob Lord of Evil Jun 26 2010, 09:08 PM

    QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 26 2010, 09:46 PM) *
    AH is in this situation because the line dev is a hack and management is run by a crook. He was a freelancer, so he can't be fired; but he did call bullshit on the line dev and was removed from the system that contains his finished work and told that it would not be used in the final product or as a template for rewrites.


    You really do Bobby a disservice perpetuating this illusion that he is some sort of SR messiah. If he had been grounded in reality he might have kept his trap shut...instead of thinking that he could do no wrong and that SR can't function without him.

    As far as him being too classy for legal action...AYFM?

    Obviously...we are just going to keep going round and round...unless one of us gets off this merry-go-round....ME first!

    "Alright. So, listen. Why don't you give me a call when you want to start taking things a little more seriously? Here's my card." Joker to mobsters. biggrin.gif

    Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 26 2010, 09:10 PM

    QUOTE (Bob Lord of Evil @ Jun 26 2010, 02:08 PM) *
    "Alright. So, listen. Why don't you give me a call when you want to start taking things a little more seriously? Here's my card." Joker to mobsters. biggrin.gif


    Personally, I liked the Magic Trick myself... Perfectly Brutal and made a great point all in one fell swoop...

    Keep the Faith

    Posted by: Aristotle Jun 26 2010, 09:12 PM

    Who is beating the dead horse exactly? Both sides seem to have clubs these days.

    I think Bobby makes some valid points. I'd expect that, until the last project Bobby had a hand in has hit the shelves, those of you who support IMR/CGL are going to have to get used to those of us not supporting them and our interest in his posts pointing out how things have drifted off of the originaly plan ... or how his work may have been used as references material for the rewrites.

    Posted by: Ancient History Jun 26 2010, 09:19 PM

    QUOTE (Bob Lord of Evil @ Jun 26 2010, 10:08 PM) *
    You really do Bobby a disservice perpetuating this illusion that he is some sort of SR messiah. If he had been grounded in reality he might have kept his trap shut...instead of thinking that he could do no wrong and that SR can't function without him.

    Don't think I've ever said that, but I certainly haven't ever intended to give that impression.

    QUOTE
    As far as him being too classy for legal action...AYFM?

    Here is a point: I've never been in a position to hire a lawyer and take IMR to court. When I wasn't paid, I sent a formal letter about it, and (eventually) I was paid. When I brought up the problem with Corp Guide it was (eventually) fixed. Jason and IMR might be currently set on a mentality of fix-it-after-its-broken-and-when-someone-complains rather than before, but so far all the issues have (eventually) been addressed.

    The sad thing is: these are mistakes that could have been, should have been avoided - because I addressed my concerns about the issue to them directly. It was the work of five minutes to fix Corp Guide; if Jason had bothered to look over the section in layout he should have caught it. As far as 6WA goes, I can't see it as anything more or less than deliberate disregard - it's not technically plagiarism, so he doesn't care that he went about it in an unethical way.

    Posted by: Kid Chameleon Jun 26 2010, 10:44 PM

    QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 26 2010, 01:24 AM) *
    http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=31751&view=findpost&p=948725


    Yes Bobby, it is so amazing that I came up with the same major cities in the CAS and put them in the same order. Its not like those cities were listen in SONA. And obviously I stole from you because no one short of your brilliance is capable of using the complex ordering scheme that you did. ohplease.gif I put them in alphabetical order, twit.

    Posted by: Ancient History Jun 26 2010, 10:58 PM

    And you didn't rip off either Space City or the Hidden Mound, which I appreciate.

    Posted by: Kid Chameleon Jun 26 2010, 11:00 PM

    QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 26 2010, 05:58 PM) *
    And you didn't rip off either Space City or the Hidden Mound, which I appreciate.


    I was going to do the Hidden Mounds, but Jason told me Dollywood was off limits.

    Posted by: Ancient History Jun 26 2010, 11:04 PM

    Yet another execrable decision, I would have liked to see your write-up for that.

    Posted by: Martin_DeVries_Institute Jun 26 2010, 11:12 PM

    I take it the Hidden Mound was meant to be one of the large Native mounds that dot the Midwest and South, probably with some sort of pre-Awakening knowledge hinted at? That would've been interesting, I don't think I've seen those mentioned in SR yet...

    Posted by: Ancient History Jun 26 2010, 11:15 PM

    Yeah...with a couple twists. You can read about it in http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Docs/6WN_CAS_Derie.pdf, although I first started playing with the concept http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Spoorn/GreyPlaces.rtf.

    Posted by: Saint Sithney Jun 26 2010, 11:29 PM

    QUOTE (Bob Lord of Evil @ Jun 26 2010, 10:38 AM) *
    *looks at Bobby beating the shit out of the dead horse* I guess everybody needs a hobby. biggrin.gif


    Yeah, god. Are we still talking about the Sixth World Almanac? Didn't that come out, like, yesterday?

    Move on already, people! ohplease.gif

    Posted by: raben-aas Sep 21 2010, 09:04 AM

    On a related note, here's the German cover of 6WA.

    [img]http://sirdoomsbadcompany.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/almanach-der-sechsten-welt-cover.png[/img]
    And if DS is doing BS to pic links again, here's the link:
    http://sirdoomsbadcompany.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/almanach-der-sechsten-welt-cover.png

    Posted by: Paul Nov 6 2011, 06:46 PM

    So I'd read the PDF-but for me PDF's are hard to read for a variety of silly reasons-but this past week I got the actual hard cover. I've been down on SR4 for a while-because the core books had felt a little recycled to me, and as such I've been a ate to the game in checking the setting books. I just sort of assumed they'd have the same feel.

    I'm quite proud to say how wrong I was. The Sixth World Almanac may actually be one of my all time favorite Shadowrun products, and is so far my favorite Shadowrun 4 product. (I'm still reading War, and a few others so it's not that I'm dissing them, rather I haven't finished them) I'm immensely happy with this product. I feel like I've gotten my value and then some. So thanks folks. I appreciate it, sorry I've been a little down on you cats writing the game in recent years. I'm glad I stuck with you, because this is where I want the game to go! And how.

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