Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Nartaki and Shiva Arms Metagenetic Quality
Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 6 2010, 06:01 AM
Just because my mind is twisted... is it possible (in theory) for a Nartaki metavariant to take the Shiva Arms Quality for a total of 6 arms? If so, is it also possible for them to take the Quality twice (as listed in the Quality description) for a total of eight arms?
Honestly, can't think of why I'd ever make a character like this, but as the http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066999/ said, "I gots to know."
Posted by: Mäx Jul 6 2010, 06:11 AM
Honestly, can't think of why I'd ever make a character like this, but as the http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066999/ said, "I gots to know."
You can take it once more for 6 arms, then you have it twice so you cant take it anymore.
Posted by: Medicineman Jul 6 2010, 12:57 PM
Well, I tend to disagree
a Nartaki ist not a Surgeling so, If he Would Surge ,he could get Shiwa Arms twice (for a Maximum of 8 Arms).
This(8 Arm Thing) might be RAW but it shurely Ain't my Cup of Tea
He who Dances like Shiva
Medicineman
Posted by: Mäx Jul 6 2010, 01:04 PM
a Nartaki ist not a Surgeling so, If he Would Surge ,he could get Shiwa Arms twice (for a Maximum of 8 Arms).
This(8 Arm Thing) might be RAW but it shurely Ain't my Cup of Tea
He who Dances like Shiva
Medicineman
do you also allow those meta variant who have metagenic improment take it a second time if the take Surge.
I beliave that the quality limits are on place no matter how you aquire the qualities.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 6 2010, 01:04 PM
Like you said, more than 2 arms is worthless, so do whatever you want. 
Posted by: Medicineman Jul 6 2010, 01:11 PM
I beliave that the quality limits are on place no matter how you aquire the qualities.
If It comes from different Sources ,yes (a surged Formori Troll might get his Metagenetic Improvement twice ) .as they add up together (its called Synergy Effect IIRC) except where the Rules say differently
(and more than 4 Arms are really not worth Playing .Even 4 Arms are only OK if you Min/Max)
with a Synergy Dance
Medicineman
Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 6 2010, 01:15 PM
That opens up a big can of worms for min/maxing excercises O.o
Posted by: Medicineman Jul 6 2010, 01:29 PM
Nahh,I don't think so.After a while They'll realise too that 4 Arms is effectively the best
with the best Dances
Medicineman
Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 6 2010, 01:34 PM
No, i meant the two times metagenetic improvement ^^
Posted by: Medicineman Jul 6 2010, 01:37 PM
Yeah OK, that might really be a Can of Worms.
Here
http://www.your3dsource.com/images/newspapergif.gif
this is for all GMs in distress from Munchkinny Players trying to bring you a Can of Worms
he who dances with 4 rolled up Newspapers
Medicineman
Posted by: Mäx Jul 6 2010, 03:32 PM
Actually the last sentence on shiva arms entry is "This quality may be taken twice for up to six arms" so even if your GM lets you take it twice as a Nartaki you will still only have six arms as thats the maximum.
Posted by: Railgun Jul 6 2010, 03:45 PM
I always figured Metavariants were described as "premade" SURGE characters and their unique traits were already designated as the same SURGE qualities Changlings use. After the description of them it say right in their text "Shiva Arms" which pretty much means they come with one rank standard, and by the Shiva Arms text itself, means it can only be bought one more time by a Nartaki.
Posted by: Medicineman Jul 6 2010, 04:09 PM
If you start with only two Arms. (its simple math
)But there is no real need for a debate. I wouldn't allow it in my Groups, even If It would be RAW and you don't allow it because you perceive it as wrong.So it's the same result
Hough!
Medicineman
Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 6 2010, 04:15 PM
a Nartaki ist not a Surgeling so, If he Would Surge ,he could get Shiwa Arms twice (for a Maximum of 8 Arms).
This(8 Arm Thing) might be RAW but it shurely Ain't my Cup of Tea
He who Dances like Shiva
Medicineman
From Runner's Companion
qualities that can only be taken by characters with the appropriate
genetic background. Only characters that have bought a metavariant
metatype (pp. 70–72) or the changeling quality (p. 73) may
choose qualities from this section.
And like I said, I'd never really do this (except maybe during a really over the top pink mohawk campaign). Just a thought that tickled me.
Posted by: Railgun Jul 6 2010, 05:32 PM
Like I said, Nartaki additional arms ARE Shiva Arms. They aren't their own thing. And anyone that thinks otherwise is just allowing minor leeway in interpretation to be used to their own advantages. Of course, people here tend to do that alot.
Edit: A little addendum. If it sounds like cheese, it probably is cheese. There is a definite lack of concrete rulings in many areas of SR, but the "rules" are still just guidelines. The only opinion that really matters on if it will be allowed or not is your GM... Although at least to me, the intent of Metavariants is plainly obvious to me.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 6 2010, 05:49 PM
I agree that you can't have more than the normal caps of any Metagenic Qualities. They're the same source, and this isn't vehicle or weapon mods.
Posted by: hermit Jul 10 2010, 11:04 AM
Honestly, can't think of why I'd ever make a character like this, but as the http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066999/ said, "I gots to know."
PM Medicine Man about this. He has a character template.
Also, be wary, these concepts are not always received very well.
Posted by: Medicineman Jul 10 2010, 11:54 AM
My char "One Man Army" is simply a surged elf with shiva arms and striking skin colors (Gold) thats all.Just a "Nartakielf" nothing really spectacular .
hough!
Medicineman
Posted by: Doc Byte Jul 10 2010, 12:08 PM
Except you're playing a six-armed Giant, maybe.
I keep on calling him "man of many arms".
Posted by: Medicineman Jul 10 2010, 12:12 PM
Good for scaring the Sh** out of the "Small People" but not poolwise
(Pool of 12Dice /6 Arms = Pool of 2Dice per Arm... )
I keep on calling him "man of many arms".
Go ahead as long as you don't call him OMA (Grandma in English)
and to be honest.....He has many Arms 
He who dances like Shiva
Medicineman
Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 10 2010, 04:06 PM
6 arms= more arms to cyber and give you armor.. You'd need delta, but you'd be a tank.
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Jul 10 2010, 04:46 PM
Armor don't do nothin' against the good ol' stunbolt.
A full body replacement is IMHO a niche product. Going Shiva arms or Binky even more so.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 04:48 PM
Still working on the logic of how having 6 arms makes you tougher and more armored… oh SR, you so crazy.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jul 10 2010, 04:52 PM
A full body replacement is IMHO a niche product. Going Shiva arms or Binky even more so.
Indeed...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 10 2010, 05:01 PM
A full body replacement is IMHO a niche product. Going Shiva arms or Binky even more so.
What did I forget to mention I was a famori with astral hazing.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jul 10 2010, 05:03 PM
Must have slipped your mind...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 05:03 PM
Shinobi, that's a given. It's their fault for not assuming it.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jul 10 2010, 05:06 PM
Yeah, because Nartaki are often Fomori as well... who just happen to have astral hazing... yep, common indeed... What was I thinking?
Keep the Faith
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 05:08 PM
Mystic Adept, too, *of course*.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jul 10 2010, 05:09 PM
Right... Can't forget that at all... with at least several grades of Initiation I would imagine...
Keep the Faith
Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 10 2010, 05:09 PM
Hey Famori, take two levels of the shiva arms, and you need "flaws" so astral hazing. You are going to have a close to 0 essence so your only real threat are essence drain monsters.. Oh no the rarest monsters in the game are a threat to me. It makes perfect sense. Famori 1/2 the force of all incoming spells, astral hazing did I forget to mention I am a level 4 background count. What happens when you try to cast into a backgorund count you lose like 4 dice maybe more. Perfect tank.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 05:15 PM
Perfect mess, but yes.
Posted by: SkepticInc Jul 10 2010, 06:39 PM
TEST YOU MIGHT.
CHOOSE YOUR DESTINY.
GORO! VERSUS LIU KANG!
MOOOOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOOOOMBAT!!!!!
Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 10 2010, 10:59 PM
Thanks to the fact that there are not hit locations in Shadowrun, the groin shot does not work like it did on goro ^^
Posted by: czarcasm Jul 12 2010, 02:57 AM
Can I ask a dumb question? Is there any metagame reason why you'd ever want to have extra arms? If you want to, say, fire guns in each hand or do multiple melee attacks, you still have to split your dice pools. Is it because you don't have to split your dice pools if you're doing one combat action and one non-combat action -- e.g., holding onto a rope with two hands while shooting, or driving with two hands while shooting (in true GTA drive-by style)? I'd assume that there would be penalties from being distracted.
Posted by: Falanin Jul 12 2010, 03:07 AM
Well, with six arms you could triple-wield AA-16's or Ingram White Knight LMG's... MMMMmmmmm, supressive fire.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 12 2010, 03:11 AM
No, there's basically no reason at all. You could pre-draw a bunch of guns (which you'd have to buy and mod individually), but easy-to-get Quick Draw pretty much covers that. You could theoretically get cyberarms and stack up armor, but that's just preposterous.
Posted by: Udoshi Jul 12 2010, 04:01 AM
Yes, there is. A six-armed gunslinger wielding, say, SA guns put out 12 bullets per turn.
Sure, you have to split Agi+Skill, but modifiers such as specialization(Preemptive warning: FAQ vs 4a territory here), tacnet, some genetic EPE's. If you absolutely stack the various '+1 to test' modifiers around, the ones that you get to add after the split, then it becomes possible to toss a ton of small dice puddles around for shooting stuff. Which isn't great.
But.
All you need is 1 hit to force the target to defend, which carries a -1 defense dice pool modifier. Per shot. It adds up.
To make things slightly worse, its pretty easy to get 3 points of recoil compensation and burst fire on pistol type weapons. Using wide bursts, you can start off by handing out -2 penalties, and get worse from there, until it reaches the point where a defender has to take every shot you put out, even on full defense.
If you were so inclined, you could use arsenal's Using Two Handed Firearms rule (onehanding a twohander gives you -2 dice, -1 for trolls), and adept centering to do the same thing with six wide choke(another -2) shotguns. A Mossberg with extended clips (10->12, which lets you fire four times) ought to do the trick.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 12 2010, 04:09 AM
Like I said, just preposterous.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2010, 08:22 AM
Nothing really rules wise.
being able to handle other things while climbing/carrying stuff on the other hand can has it's advantages.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)