Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: MortVent Jul 10 2010, 12:29 PM

If you were to have a character that has only 1 gun , what gun would you get them and why.

Doing a character stuck in the barrens, and no intents on going into corp town.

Me, I am looking at the remington 990 or defiance t-250 shotguns... mainly the 990 with the 8rd magazine.

Flexible ammo, good damage, and reasonable to equip with folding stocks for ease of conceal (use the -2 conceal with the stocks folded)

I considered the SPAS-22 and enfield AS-7 (the later with full auto mods... nasty) but felt that for a character living in the barens a standard pump/autoloader would be easier to maintain and use.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 10 2010, 12:39 PM

SPAS-22
Best Shotgun around, if you can't get enough recoil compensation for full auto fire spray.

Posted by: CanRay Jul 10 2010, 12:45 PM

AK-97, when you absolutely, positively have to kill every Motherfragger in the room, accept no substitutes.

Posted by: Doc Byte Jul 10 2010, 12:48 PM

My pimped Mac-X! Don't need anything else.

Posted by: hermit Jul 10 2010, 12:51 PM

Whatever can be had.

If I can choose any gun available? The Thunderstorm modded for auto fire and fitted with an unlimited ammo god mode cheat. Complete with a gun personality AR thingamajick and fitted with vectored trust and drone mod. That gun would double as the character's ride.

Posted by: Dr Funfrock Jul 10 2010, 12:59 PM

One gun, and one gun only?

An Ares Predator.

The magazine is big enough to last through most firefights, it's small enough to slip past most detection in a concealable holster, it can be quick drawn, it can be silenced, recoil is never an issue, and if you load EX-EX or APDS it can still do enough damage to seriously mess up most things you go up against.

And if you want to you can mod with burst fire and a gas vent.

If you're only going to have one gun, ever, make it an Ares Predator.

Posted by: Medicineman Jul 10 2010, 01:12 PM

Either an AK 127 (from the German Arsenal ) or the Ares Alpha Combatgun with enlarged magazine, modded recoil to at least 9 and a Belt full of grenades.
Third Choice would be an Enfield AS7 with 36 (?) round Drum and underbarrel Grenade Launcher
(because Shotgunshells and Assaultrifle Ammo is easy to get )

with only one dance
Medicineman

Posted by: Ryu Jul 10 2010, 01:27 PM

I´d take a pistol, unless I was playing a mage. As a mage, I´d take an Assault Rifle or Combat Shotgun, as "normal street" self-defense would be covered.

The Ares Predator is great, as is the Ares Alpha. Amongst the shotguns I prefer the Enfield AS-7 with drum.

What vision do you have of staying on the streets? The one were second-tier gangs have shootouts, or the one were having a pistol makes you big league?

Posted by: Summerstorm Jul 10 2010, 01:34 PM

Barret 121 - with one mag of APDS. 14 rounds = 14 dead people (Or spirits, or cars or tanks or whatever).

But really: just ONE gun? IMPOSSIBLE. No character should lug around less than 20 kg weapons and explosives *g*

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 10 2010, 01:36 PM

*Troll flexes*
Do these Guns count?

Posted by: MortVent Jul 10 2010, 01:39 PM

Well the character is defiantely on the run with a good dose of paranoia, but as for the streets.

It's seattle up in redmond, and with current levels pistols are the norm for most street gangs with smgs for the big boys and higher tiers. I looked at the smgs and pistols, but with the exception of the roomsweeper nothing beats shotguns for functionability... and I looked at the SPAS 22 mainly over the enfield, the character is going to be looking at durability, maintance, and functionability. A standard pump shotgun is far more preferable to a burst fire one, may be lacking some tactical use of burst fire but it's far more durable and less prone to suffering issues compared to a burst/auto weapon (and the long arms skill works well if she were to branch out into maybe sports rifles or sniper rifles...)

But shotguns give her the damage, durability and with the amount of ammo options flexability (one reaosn I looked at the roomsweeper, buckshot ammo)

Posted by: Omenowl Jul 10 2010, 02:42 PM

The HK XM30 gives you
You get a grenade launcher, sniper rifle, assault rifle, and shotgun. You then modify it further for recoil suppression (electronic firing, gas vent-3, shock pads, heavy barrel, and foregrip). I am sure there is other stuff I would add, but that is sufficient for now.

Posted by: Draco18s Jul 10 2010, 02:43 PM

P93 Praetor. And then mod the hell out of it.

Its reasonably concealable,* great ammo capacity, average base damage, and I'd give it dual clips and extended clips (increases the ammo capacity by almost 200%, IIRC (175%?)) and a bit more RC with the remaining mod slots.

It ends up being able to carry two ammo types without having to reload (I did regular and gel) and enough RC to do a single long burst (plus a short burst at -1--or the other way around, I forget how it works right now). Doing only short and long bursts you don't have to reload in the middle of a fight, as each clip has ~52 bullets (I had to reload once an entire campaign, and I did it in downtime because my clip was down to ~17 rounds).

*By which I mean that the rules are difficult to comprehend, but the P93 isn't a longarm, so it would fit under a coat.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jul 10 2010, 02:49 PM

that reminds me of a movie scene i once watched, tho i cant recall the movie.

basically, take one big guy, have him strap guns on every available area of his body, walk outside, fall over, have all guns go off.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 10 2010, 02:49 PM

Loaded Weapon?

Posted by: hobgoblin Jul 10 2010, 02:55 PM

quite possible.

Posted by: hermit Jul 10 2010, 02:58 PM

Awesomness.

Also, having only one gun is pretty stupid, unless you chage hammer and barrel on a regular basis. My characters usually use standard weapons and dump them at the end of an operation.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jul 10 2010, 03:20 PM

If i'm a showrunner and especially if I'm sinless the cops doing a forensics work up on my primary weapon is about dead last of my worries. People like us don't get trials.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 03:21 PM

Assuming chargen-ready guns, modded Smartgun-X. Folding stock, enough RC for long bursts, suppressed, common weapon… it's not the BEST, but it's right in the middle of the dot.

Posted by: hermit Jul 10 2010, 03:29 PM

No, you get found and shot, which is sort of less pleasant than a trial, I imagine. At least it is far more terminal.

Posted by: CanRay Jul 10 2010, 03:35 PM

Hey, come on, even the cops need Shadowruns done. And blackmail is so much cheaper than !

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jul 10 2010, 03:38 PM

Yes and finding me and shooting me have nothing to do with matching my weapon to my crimes.

Posted by: hermit Jul 10 2010, 03:56 PM

Depending on how much you mod your weapon and what you use, that might be a good lead to find you.


Yeah, but I doubt they'd use showrunners for their runs, being very interested in not seeing thier black ops broadcast all over the Horizon affiliated channels.

Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 10 2010, 04:01 PM

Black Trench coat meet



Pink Mohawk. Two great tastes that taste like crap together.


Okay technically not enough to say pink mohawk, but different style is different style.

Posted by: CanRay Jul 10 2010, 04:02 PM

Two words: Deniable Assets.

The first word is the most important.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 10 2010, 04:02 PM

Depends on the character, a hacker working from the barrens doesn't need much flexability in firepower. Shotguns are notoriously hard to track back if they are smart enough to pick up shells or use blackmarket caseless sans tagets

Posted by: Ol' Scratch Jul 10 2010, 05:25 PM

I believe this is the winner for best answer.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 05:30 PM

Cheater, it's *one* gun. Cut off an arm.

Posted by: Red_Cap Jul 10 2010, 05:38 PM

+1 for the Ares Predator. Plus, I was just skimming through the guns in SR4A, and I was wondering if anyone else noticed that the pistol pictured next to the text entry on the Ruger Supwarhawk was, in point of fact, NOT a revolver?

Posted by: MortVent Jul 10 2010, 05:48 PM

May go with the colt manhunter instead of the predator, but I guess been watchign too much desert punk.. still lean towards either of the two shotguns

With:
Melee hardening (hey sometimes you just give them the stock to the face)
Laser Sight (top; replaces the image scope on the 990 unless I can get it gm'd in as a dual mount unit)
Flashlight, Low light (underbarrel) [I has my reasons....]
Personalized Grip
Sling
Shockpad (integral to the 990)

I prefer the laser sight, the character in question isn't one that can have implants and smart guns... I always want to spend the 1k for an improved rangefinder.. where I am keeping the total cost of the gun under 1k. It's a barrens area, 1k is over a month of lifestyle (about 2 as she goes from street to squatter).

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 08:00 PM

Why a Manhunter? I mean, instead of a Crusader (although, a Machine Pistol), Colt Gov't, Thunderbolt, or Guardian? A little cheaper than some, little bigger clip than others? Just wondering.

Simsense Vertigo? After all, everyone can have cheap, hidden trodes.

Posted by: Dumori Jul 10 2010, 08:02 PM

SR4A fails in the gear images department.

As for my one gun. Maybe one of the HK Urban lines.

Or maybe a HMG with a GL under it and a gryomount...

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 08:07 PM

HA. Cheater, that's not 'a gun' anymore.

Posted by: Dumori Jul 10 2010, 08:10 PM

It is. Its just a troll sized Ares Alpha

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 08:20 PM

Haha, it is not. Even for a troll, it's 2-3 times heavier (proportionally), and that's not counting the weight of the "heavy upper-body harness".

Posted by: CanRay Jul 10 2010, 08:23 PM

Actually, I just remembered something...

Guns are on ships!

This topic should probably be asking us what SMALL ARMS weapon we'd want to have...

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 08:25 PM

Hehe, good point, I guess?

What if it's a gunboat, though? Then it's not a ship, so it can't have a gun. :/ And U-boats had deck guns, were they U-ships? So confusing.

Posted by: CanRay Jul 10 2010, 08:26 PM

Want even more confusion?

Land-based Artillery are also "Guns".

Posted by: hermit Jul 10 2010, 08:31 PM

A siege ballista. And then I backstab everyone with it!

Posted by: hobgoblin Jul 10 2010, 08:50 PM

heh, remote controlled mortar rain.

btw, i have a soft spot for the suitcase SMG, especially once modded to work as a drone.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jul 10 2010, 09:08 PM

...I tend to prefer a railgun, orbital focused solar cannon, or orbital bovine drop platform...

...err...oh...um...ahhh...meat portable you say?

Right, well (RayGun's firearms aside) in 3rd ed it has to be The FN-AAL Gyrojet. Best bang for the Sov...err...buck...er... .

...don't really play 4th that much anymore.

Posted by: crash2029 Jul 10 2010, 09:13 PM

I'd have to go with the Mako Hammerhead II.

Posted by: Ol' Scratch Jul 10 2010, 09:25 PM

For a more serious answer, it would depend on the situation.

If I was a regular, every day person or at least tried to pretend to be one, I'd go with a Light Pistol. Most likely the Beretta 200ST, modified to FA for suppressive fire, plus an extended clip, smartlink, and personalized grip. Small, concealable, and appropriate enough for just about anyone to have for self-protection. I'd definitely get it with a Custom Look 2 to add to any Intimidation tests I try to make to get some asswipe to back up off me. Which is about the only reason I'd be pulling it out to begin with. MAD scanners and the like are dealt with the sensible way: With a legal license. Primary loads would be Regular and APDS ammo, though I'd have a clip of Stick-n-Shock handy, too.

If I were a scumbag shadowrunner living my life in the Barrens, I wouldn't hold back at all. An Ares Alpha with a sling, second clip, extended clips, gas vent III, sound suppressor (modified rules specifically state you can have both), and whatever other recoil compensation I could slip in. Since this is what I would have, as opposed to a starting character, to Hell with the 6-slot-without-GM-permission rule. I'd go with either Custom Look 2 for the same reasons above if I never had any intention of going outside the Barrens, or Ceramic/Plasteel 3 if I would regularly have to smuggle it into places. Probably go with the powered break-down mod, too, in the latter case. Primary load would be AV with Stick-n-Shock and EX-Explosive stashed away for speciality purposes.

If I were a stone-cold professional shadowrunner, I'd go with a Machine Pistol. A bit harder to hide than a Heavy Pistol, but easier to smuggle than an SMG or Shotgun. The Ares Crusader would be my first choice, though I prefer the look of the FN 5-7C. I'd convert it to FA for suppressive fire again, plus a smartlink, upgraded gas-vent III (it already has one despite pistols not normally being able to, so I'm just upgrading the damn thing), detachable sound suppressor, ceramic/plasteel 3, powered break-down, personalized grip, and gecko grip options off the top of my head. Again, ignoring the 6-slot rule. I'd have both a Quick-Draw and Concealable Holster depending on the situation, and naturally a Long Coat or its equivalent to help hide it all that much more. Primary load would be AV despite the silliness of it (hey, no rule against it as far as I know), with Stick-n-Shock, Capsule (DMSO/Drug of Choice), and EX-Explosive clips on hand.

If it were in the real world, I'd go with a god-damned Shotgun. Wouldn't matter which brand or model, as long as it made a cool chu-chink sound to appease both my inner gun-toting child and for intimidation purposes. Too bad Shotguns are worth drek-all in the game.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 10 2010, 09:56 PM

I was looking at the manhunter for cost, built in laser sight, and ammo capacity.

Like I said it's nice ot have burst fire, but not a priority (conserve ammo)

One major reason I like the shot guns is spread, sure armor can defeat most flechette ammo rounds (unless I use the god mode enfield with fa and enough recoil comp for a a full 6rd or 10rd [with bipod] spray). Plus the damage is damn good per shot, equal to heavy weapons. Most of the time you are in mid-shot ranges too.

Plus I like the magazine feed for slipping in a couple rounds, since they work like a pump.. last shell in is the first shell to fire. So if I run into something nasty and the first shot or two fails, slip in a couple rounds of EX-EX and good to go... or maybe Gel rounds to knock them down and get out of there.

I'm a firm believer that if you have to empty more than 6rds in a fight, you should be trying to get the hell out of dodge and use gas/smoke to cover your exit

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jul 10 2010, 10:13 PM

...I heartily agree there, on all three counts.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 10 2010, 10:35 PM

Psh, if you're using fewer than 6 rounds per *pass*, you're not trying hard enough.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jul 10 2010, 10:52 PM

...twin Super Warhawks with pre-errata EXEX don't need 6 rounds per pass to do the job.

Posted by: Red_Cap Jul 10 2010, 10:53 PM

And if they do, you're probably better of running anyway.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 10 2010, 10:55 PM

*bows* thank you, thank you, i'll be here for *to voice off screen* how long? A LIFE SENTENCE?!? Ah well, i guess there is worse . .

And then get me a replacement with 20STR in it and flex THAT one!

Posted by: Draco18s Jul 10 2010, 11:03 PM

Ok, favorite gun of all time would have to be the FGMP (IIRC is name correctly). Or the Fusion Gun, Man Portable. Each time its fired it gives everyone in line of sight a lethal does of radiation and that's just the SIDE EFFECT. Its actual shot just kills people (and you get 3 shots per firing action) and is the only gun in its game system that makes you track the trajectory of every shot, because it WILL punch through a tank and take out another one.

Posted by: Ryu Jul 10 2010, 11:22 PM

You should consider to start with a classic long-short combination. The choice of AR/shotgun/sniper rifle/sports rifle depends on your character.

For the "short" option, I´d learn Pistols (Semi-Auto +2), and go with the Ares Predator. Light, concealable, and easily found on various bodies. I´d weight concealability over damage, and forego the "long" weapon if buying only one weapon. Bringing a larger weapon will make the big boys notice, so you wouldn´t want to do that constantly.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 10 2010, 11:23 PM

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/3/27/633737570370792860-PlasmaWeapons.jpg

Posted by: Dumori Jul 10 2010, 11:27 PM

That's why every devastator squad EVER played by me has a plasma cannon.

Posted by: Daylen Jul 10 2010, 11:45 PM

Ares predator or browning hi power if I had any social ability. or a "custom" rifle done up to be a battle rifle if I had to be more meat than talk. If I was a troll I would do a custom autocannon, break action side by side.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 12:12 AM

Actually leaning towards the roomsweeper a lot.

It's cheap, easy to use. I am also looking at the short barrel t-250 talking with the gm, more in removing the stock and keeping the damage range vs cutting the barrel and losing power...

Drop the stock and give it the +2 conceal size, combined with a sling to help conceal it under the jacket (bring it down to 0 or heavy pistol conceal with the sling modification bonuses, or -2 with long coat bonuses on top of it...)

Giving a real nice side arm that has the power, and concealability.

Of course said character is wearing a Synthleather duster over FFBA with a couple PPP parts...

I am considering just getting one of the mid-range pistols as well, but something about the character and personality just screams shotgun to me.

I guess it's the personality that would want as much tactical flexability while maintaining frugality (hence no real look towards burst, and a hatred of full auto weapons...)

Posted by: Draco18s Jul 11 2010, 12:19 AM

Precisely. Of course, its expected that the FGMP only be fired by characters wearing Rad suits.

Assuming of course, that characters are allowed to have one.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 11 2010, 12:25 AM

Any suit worn by someone with that gun is already RAD.

Posted by: Dumori Jul 11 2010, 12:40 AM

fixed

Posted by: hobgoblin Jul 11 2010, 12:51 AM

that sound should come as a keyring.

Posted by: Chance359 Jul 11 2010, 01:07 AM

Ares Predator all they way.

Posted by: Xahn Borealis Jul 11 2010, 11:14 AM

John Connor, anyone?

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 11 2010, 11:58 AM

Still don't understand how a sling even helps with RC or Conceal.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 12:09 PM

In this case it's more a holster type sling/harness.

A good example is the smgs carried in one of hte lethal weapon movies by the south african guards under their jackets (it let the gun hang under the arm along the side like it was holstered.)

A similar rig can work with longer weapons, just not as well.


http://www.tacticaltailor.com/qrtac-slingshotgun.aspx

The triple or single point slings can be shifted eaily enough to hide a smg/carbine/short shotgun under a long coat with a bit of minor effort. Most are quick release as well so in sl terms a quick command on the PAN after grabbing and it's free to use

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jul 11 2010, 12:48 PM

No, it might be a good way to link my weapon to my crimes maybe. But despite what police proceedurals may have led you that has next to nothing to do with actually finding me.



Please stop presuming and listen for a second, i'm going to do my part to dispel some wierd notion that both of you seem to have.


Lets say for a second that every single gun that Ares makes is test fired and profiled as it leaves the factory a process that would take considerable time and constitute lots of overhead for minimal gain. First you have to get past the data balkanization that is alive and well in the sixth world, then you have to positively match the shell casings from heavily modified Ares predator that I always use. This is hoping I've NEVER swapped the barrel andnd hopeing that at some point along the line that I bought it from someone who actually kept transaction records, hoping the gun never went through a place like lagos or any other blackmarket mecca where guns are literally sold in lots. Or had the weapon custom built by someone with a desktop forge, a herf gun, and a set of plans available on the matrix.

Through countless man hours of work a dedicated Lonestar or Knight Errant detective might indeed learn the serial number of the weapon before I changed it a long time ago. Yes that really helps them find me.

Unless you are concerned about the police searching your safe house when your not there and issuing a warrant for your arrest based on a match on your gun there is no way ballistics help find you. Ballistics help prove your guilty, and if the Star has managed to pry your weapon from your cold dead hands or find it behind the shower tile in your squat you have other problems. Far better to have a reliable weapon( you keep with you in case you need to shoot people and have customized to your tastes and shooting style then to pick up a new gun every time within the framework of Shadowrun. This isn't a pink mohawk vs mirror shades issue, this is people having an unreasonable expectation for what forensics can and cannot do. Especially in a world where violent crime and murder is as rampant as it is int he sixth world.

But lets say in I live in Hermit's world of super accurate ballistics work ups every time. Unless I've personally thrown that gun in the nanodissembler vat or blast furnace it is believably still a problem for me so having it leave my person or replacing the barrel and hammer everytime is minimal gain.

Posted by: Daylen Jul 11 2010, 03:04 PM

Don't you mean the badass himself Kyle Reese?

Posted by: Xahn Borealis Jul 11 2010, 03:51 PM

Ooops.


Alsop, as far as the gun-tracking thing, what about astral stuff? Depends if it counts as material link...

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 03:54 PM

sympathic links..

Commlink, favorite lighter, favorite shirt... etc..

Posted by: Daylen Jul 11 2010, 03:56 PM

only gun etc...?

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 04:07 PM

Anything you use a lot is going to be a link, if they can spend the time and money to hire a mage with the proper metamagic.

So do you drop your gear every few days, buy all new kit and move on?

If not you're in trouble if anything of yours gets picked up on a run.

Well except for the fact usually it's not worth it to the corp to waste resources unless you really mess things up big time (aka terminate a CEO, steal Lowyfer's pink plushie, etc)

Posted by: Daylen Jul 11 2010, 04:12 PM

I like that idea! Course then I couldn't use Vera on a run...

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jul 11 2010, 04:22 PM

Again, the best defense against sympathetic links is keeping your stuff secure, the best security you can hope for is on your person. For those times when it is impractical to keep it on your person find the most secure stash spot you can.

Also let me just personally say, the sympathetic link rules are pretty silly as they are entirely too arbitrary

Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 11 2010, 04:37 PM

And your over sensitive rant changes my point that you and hermit have different game styles so this argument is virtually pointless how?

Posted by: Falconer Jul 11 2010, 05:11 PM

Again... here's the problem... depends on the character and his needs.

For some concealability is the issue... in which case a heavy pistol is probably best. (decent hitting power and concealability).
For others hiding in plain sight but with a bit more firepower is a variation on concealability... which is going to get you more noticed packing a AK-98/M22A3 as just another ganger or the guy w/ the top-flight Ares Alpha/XM30.
Flexibility, then a modular weapon might be your thing. (set it up as a SMG/carbine for best conceal, the rest are mission dependent)


Gas vent's aren't available to pistols IIRC. Only MP, SMG, AR, and MG. Making recoil comp harder to come by... but if you're using

Oddball: (concealable, limited range, high damage)
Defiance EX Shocker, Modifed to SA, Smartgun/laser sight, personalized grip (+1 dice melee, or -1 RC).
Only thing borderline legal issue wise is the smartgun... laser site is good for intimidation... it is already a melee weapon. Though range is limited (if you're a mage though... not a huge problem). Also good, because it won't raise eyeballs much when you're outside the barrens. Sure some other mods, such as ceramic construction if you really don't want it found I guess.

Pistol:
BF pistols are cool... but it's hard to come up with the recoil comp (that said the manhunter is pretty.
I prefer the Manhunter (though the Sava guardian is pretty nifty also). Both are pretty much straight up predators w/ added features.
Manhunter BF (narrow only, 2 point RC special, smartgun)
Guardian, SA/BF* (BF == complex, 1point RC special, smartgun)

Manhunter(fire mod SA (1), BF-wide (1), Personalized Grip,... cool mods, gecko grip, extended mag, skinlink, easy breakdown, ceramic/plasteel(1), melee hardening, improved rangefinder (reduce pistol range penalties) )
Removable Accesories: removable/folding stock (RC1), suppressor, pistol scope (long range -6 extreme is rough).
Kitted out w/ the stock, suppressor, I figure it's about the same size as a SMG w/ 5P AP-1 base and SA/BF RC4 suppressed I figure it's about the same

Guardian: almost the same, but you can skip the fire mod for more modification space... nice if you want an internal suppressor (for the -6 vs. -4 and concealability) you only end up trading 1 point of RC for it. Firing mod BF is still nice though to reduce the firing action from complex to simple like normal...


Modular weapons:
Probably go with the XM30... set it up as a SMG and do everything I could for concealability purposes... folding stock, sling, barrel reduction (on pistols this reduces the range too much, on rifles/SMG's... go for it). A highly concealable SMG + GL is a lot of firepower. I like melee-hardening again, just form a reliability standpoint... if it's getting thrown around banged up... or some ganger hammers it w/ a lead pipe... it'll keep working, let alone the ever popular 'pistol-whipping' option.

Gecko Grip: is a very nifty option I never really noticed before... it allows you to hide the gun in a much wider variety of places as well as makes it harder to disarm. Or preposition the gun aimed at say a door... then give it a remote fire order.

Posted by: Wasabi Jul 11 2010, 05:18 PM

Barrett Model 121 with additional ammo mod and then both Capsule rounds (with Narcojet... or Ringu/DMSO if you have a bajillion nuyen) and AV ammo. AV acts like APDS but gets yet another -2 AP on top of the APDS AP when shooting at vehicles. Carry it on a Gyromount and mod it for full auto so you have a manportable .50 cal able to suppressive fire on the run.

A Capsule round acts as a Gel Round (except no added bonus to knockback/knockdown) and so it does Stun and since Narcojet also does Stun firing FA with that if it hits is a win button.

A less effective but fun choice is an Auto Assault 16 using Shok-Lock rounds for the +1 AP. Gyromount also suggested for this weapon.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 05:22 PM

Well she's getting a roomsweeper... the shotgun spread is key I think.

Remington Roomsweeper
Modifications:
* top mount: flashlight (low light)
* Melee Hardening
* Extended Barrel
* Personalized Grip
* Gecko Grip
* Environment modification 1 (toxic environments ; aka anti-corrosion and rust protection)
Acces:
*Quick draw thigh holster
Ammo:
40 rds standard slug ammo
40 rds Flechette ammo (buckshot)
20 rds EX-Explosive Slugs
20 rds Gel Slugs

failed to find a seller of capsules with KE IV in them... go figure there is a rush on them.

Posted by: Wasabi Jul 11 2010, 05:25 PM

Ex-Ex will get a person killified when they get hit by a fire, light, blast, or explosive effect and do their damage to the carrying character. Shock lock dont make extra bang, do extra damage, and EAT items struck. If you shoot a door with shok-lock you double your chances of blasting a hole.

Posted by: tagz Jul 11 2010, 05:27 PM

Nah, I'd say the best defense against sympathetic links is not pissing anyone off ENOUGH to go through the trouble. It's unrealistic that you'll never leave something behind ever.

Truth is there is such a myriad of tracking methods in shadowrun that you'll almost never properly cover ALL of them. It's up to the GM to decide if he wants to pursue them or not, so the best defense is to give little to no plausible reason to bother tracking you down.

Posted by: Falconer Jul 11 2010, 05:29 PM

Don'g forget to buy a bayonet!!! (you can attach it to the end like you would a gas-vent mod)

Going WW1 trench shotgun style.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 05:34 PM

she's bouncing between street and squatter in the barrens (redmond) so she wants something that works damn it. The light was picked because her natural low light, and at the ranges she is likely to face oposition the light works better than a laser sight (plus I got an evil bastich of a gm that I trained... karma sucks!)

She does spend time in the ork underground so trench is close, plus shot shells work great for getting people to duck while she gets out of there.

she did scrounge up some grenades too, just a couple pepper punch gas grenades and smokes... but hey PP means any magiker is going to be hurting while she gets out of there. [plus nothing ruins a go-gang's day like a pp gas grenade in front of them... when they have no helmets or resperators on..]

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 11 2010, 05:36 PM

Can flechette actually hurt anyone, unless you're using typo'd stats? Especially if you're using the spread.

Posted by: Falconer Jul 11 2010, 05:38 PM

You already melee hardened it... just figured it fit.

Bayonet is 40 creds (cheap!), Reach +2, (Str/2+1)P when you have it on the rifle.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 05:40 PM

Not all targets wear armor, plus it's good for making folks duck.

It has it's uses, especially when someone sends critters after ya or ina tight passageway (as-7 with FA and flechette, narrow spread... full 10rd burst..gangers in just leather jackets)

Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 11 2010, 05:42 PM

Depends on how you rule on called shots and what happens when flrchette don't hit atmot.

Take a lined coat it has 4 impact called shot to avoid armor means -4 dice, does the flechette benefits help or not I think there is no armor to give +5 to so you get +2DV. Now a called shot for damage is still superior but I'm sure people can come up with something for why flechette isn't worthless. It is definitely niche though.

Posted by: Dumori Jul 11 2010, 05:44 PM

A good gun would be a redline pistol asuming you have access to power sockets you can restock up on ammo free. It hits HARD and is easy to hide. It's a bit out there.

Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Jul 11 2010, 05:45 PM

Critters good point I had not thought about them. How do the SR4 shotgun spread rules work maybe something can be gimicked there as well. In SR2 I totally weaseled choke with 2 roomsweepers so my TN was 2, I was hitting multiple targets even when they had cover, sure there damage resistance test was 2 as well, but they had to roll a lot of 2s.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 05:47 PM

Yeah redmond barrens... home of the mutant devil rat population...

I just know he's going to send me around the damn river or in the sewers

Posted by: Ryu Jul 11 2010, 06:04 PM

Flechette increases the stakes of the damage resistance roll. 15 dice against 7 base might mean a large wound, 20 dice against 9 base damage might be the end.

IE take the odds of taking 4+ damage in the first place (3 hits kill). 21% odds in the first case, 30% in the later. Bad rolls happen.

Posted by: tagz Jul 11 2010, 06:13 PM

Well, looking at the average rolls of 3 dice = 1 hit then using flechette ammo will on average do 1 DV more then regular ammo. Also, they strike IMPACT armor not Ballistic, which is typically lower. This is the REAL reason to use flechette ammo as most people stack Ballistic much higher then Impact.

I also play with a house-rule that only allows flechette to modify the armor rating by at most the original rating. So an Impact armor of 4 can only recieve +4AP while an Impact of 6 would get the full +5AP.

Posted by: Falconer Jul 11 2010, 07:18 PM

Yeah, mutant devil rats w/ natural armor power!

Hehehehehe

Posted by: Falanin Jul 11 2010, 08:21 PM

For single-weapon situations, I [my physad, that is...] prefer the Morrissey Elan. If you truly need more gun than that, you need a second gun. When you are more worried about sound than scanners and patdowns, the Ares Viper is an acceptable substitute (the integral silencer is LEGAL). For pure lethality, I agree that machine pistols (particularly the 5-7c) are a sensible choice, since they synergize well with larger weapons. If you have the skills for it, however, I recommend the more concealable and more damaging Ruger Thunderbolt. The spirit of John Woo demands that all Ruger Thunderbolts be used akimbo, however... so that rules them out as the 1-gun solution.

Any time you can actually carry around something larger than a sidearm... you can carry more than one gun.

Honestly, unless you're a mage, why aren't you carrying a backup piece? The New York reload (pull your backup) is much faster than actually reloading, even with smartguns.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 08:23 PM

Her backup...

Well that comes with a Rtg 4 targeting soft...

Posted by: Mäx Jul 11 2010, 08:27 PM

And wielding akimbo gives you douple the amount of ammo before needing to do even that.
My Sasha has pairs of most of her weapons that dont reguier two hands to use, smart people dont fire both guns at the same time.

Posted by: Mongoose Jul 11 2010, 08:30 PM

Its not a matter of matching your weapons to your crimes. Its a matter of matching crime A to crime B to crime C, and having the cumulative evidence build up to a usable profile that leads to you. Its actually not uncommon today for police to know the same gun was used in multiple crimes, allowing them to link together otherwise unrelated bits of information.
Granted, assuming you are careful about not letting out those "unrelated bits" of information in the first place (any one of which might be enough to nail you anyhow), linking your crimes via your gun probably isn't big deal. But it still probably makes you look bad to your Johnson- if its well enough known, its almost like leaving a "signature" at the scene. Sure, you CAN get away with it, but why?

Posted by: Falanin Jul 11 2010, 08:32 PM

Fair enough. I'm just a big fan of having a gun left over after I've "given up my weapons" or been frisked. Honestly, if you're not planning on hitting a lot of high profile/upper class neighborhoods where more guns means more risk... carry an arsenal. If you only have it as insurance and never have to pull it, a second gun is a capital investment. Buy once, then never have to pay more unless you NEEDED the gun. Cheaper than your monthly protection money to the local street gang, and WAY cheaper than getting dead 'cause you didn't have it.

Posted by: MortVent Jul 11 2010, 08:34 PM

You also assume that a gun is going to be used on runs a lot.

The char in question isn't keen on using her gun, not so much a pacifist but one that feels having to resort to it means things went bad.

She is more likely to use said gun in her home area, Z-zone. than doing runs, which she may add a throwaway gun as needed for (she is looking into a set of running gear vs what amounts to survial gear she has)

Posted by: Sengir Jul 11 2010, 08:40 PM

If the weapon has a "clip" both are equally fast. Dropping a weapon and drawing another takes one free and one simple action, same as with ejecting a smart clip and inserting a new one. Of course most shotguns don't have removable mags, so in general you are correct.

Posted by: Falanin Jul 11 2010, 08:49 PM

Well, yes. My physad DOES tend to assume that things can and will go to hell, and that the guns will come out. That being said, none of the points he made require that assumption for their validity.

Posted by: Falanin Jul 11 2010, 08:49 PM

Huh, double post.

Posted by: Falanin Jul 11 2010, 08:51 PM

True, but if your backup is a pistol (which was my assumption, I must admit) you can quickdraw it, which means that simple action lets you get another shot off, as well.

Posted by: Faraday Jul 12 2010, 01:53 AM

Or, if you're a physad with the Quick Draw power, the same applies to Automatics and Longarms.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 12 2010, 01:57 AM

Or you drop like 7BP for the Martial Art trick? Crazy times.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jul 12 2010, 04:13 AM

...would you want a young lady who has the outlook of a 13 year old packing a fusion weapon?

She's scary enough with the gyrojet or a grenade pistol as the rest of the team found out last week.


Bright Lady help us if she gets her hands on an Anti Material Rifle or MPML.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 12 2010, 04:30 AM

First, don't want any young lady carrying any weapon: they're crazy.

Isn't the gyrojet in SR4 strictly worse than almost everything? What's a grenade pistol?

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jul 12 2010, 04:41 AM

...as I stopped playing 4th Ed a while ago, not sure what Shock Lock rounds are.

According to the description of Explosive rounds in the SR4 gear section, they are solid slugs designed to fragment and explode on impact. EXEX are just a more powerful variant. They are no more prone to "cook off" than normal ammo. The one disadvantage is that Explosive rounds can misfire on a critical glitch with the firing character taking a single attack at the weapon's base damage value (basically, they fragment inside the barrel of the weapon).

In previous editions Explosive and EX Explosive rounds actually contained a small explosive charge which did make them more dangerous to carry.

Posted by: Neraph Jul 12 2010, 07:06 AM

Got into an argument with a friend over it, in fact. I won because I read the text to him (and stat line), proving that it was in fact a revolver, not a semi.


I agree with this concept and choice, but not with the mods. I'd go with built-in silencer/suppressor, no FA mod, and electronic firing. With subsonic ammo you're looking at a -7 to Perception to find it. Hard to argue with that.


I was going to make this point. Power sockets are easy to find - I assume the power packs come with plugs that you can put into any standard power grid. One or two clips or one satchel should do you good.... permanently

I'm actually surprised (actually, not really) no one has mentioned this, but for a disposable firearm, I've taken a real liking to the Colt Asp. Cheap as all get-out with a really low availability means getting these (and disposing of them) is easy and painless.

On the other hand, a Super Squirt is legal (although the toxin may change that), and packed with Pepper Punch is fairly dangerous.

Nothing beats my gnome combat mage with a pistol grip for my firearm of choice though. He says his name is Gilbert, not "Little Friend" though, and no emotisoft/weapon personality can compete with the real thing.

EDIT: Editing more addons as I read through the thread. Be forewarned.

Posted by: StealthSigma Jul 12 2010, 12:40 PM

I wish I could afford that. My character is so hopped up on infiltration and stealth that doing so would be excessively expensive for the payouts we get. Every single one of my weapons is fitted with either the chameleon mod, or is fitted to use ghillie shrouds. I would pick up weapons in the course of a mission, but since I'm the one that's usually farthest from where enemies die I rarely run into points where I can pick up their weapons to use.

--

Also, since it was one gun and no stipulation on how much ammo you could have....

Ares Thunderstruck or the Barret Model 121.

Posted by: Mäx Jul 12 2010, 01:31 PM

Well you can pull the gun and shoot it with the same single action, so thats faster.

Posted by: Medicineman Jul 13 2010, 01:42 PM

And I thought it was :
Ejecting empty Clip(free action with Smartlink)
Readying Clip (simple Action)
Inserting Clip (simple Action)
....oO(I Think we even "invented" fastdraw Clipholders so readying and inserting a Clip could be handled in only one simple Action)

HokaHey
Medicineman

Posted by: MortVent Jul 13 2010, 01:43 PM

hidden arm slides, work great for clips or speedloaders... not just for pistols and blades ya know

Posted by: Draco18s Jul 13 2010, 02:55 PM

5 BP. You pick a martial arts style for 5 BP and get one of its advantages (such as quick draw). The 2 BP more is for the special moves such as Finishing Blow than any martial arts style can acquire up to two of per 5 BP of martial arts.

Posted by: Sixgun_Sage Jul 13 2010, 04:34 PM

Ares Predator for the simple reason it is a workhorse gun, concealable, decent firepower, smartlink and you KNOW it will never jam up on you. need a bit more firepower? modd it for burst or slap in ExEx rounds, need it suppressed? That can be done too, and you are never gonna have trouble finding ammo or spare parts. There is a reason 90% of runners will own a Predator at some point in their professional life.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 13 2010, 07:45 PM

Well, a couple of Heavy Pistols are categorically superior to the Pred, even with popularity, reliability, etc. factored in.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jul 13 2010, 08:13 PM

EWhy the frag would a J give a crap that possibly somewhere in the city there's a crime file on one of the guns I use, which ideally isn't linked to me in any way shape or form. Shadowrun is litterally a game world where gangers attack intercity shiping on major highways in broad day light while other gangs catapult bioweapons at the arcology blocks. Even if someone has painstakingly identified that an Ares Predator was used unless the gun is specifically stamping it's seriel number onto every bullet ala that terrible Judge Dream movie the best most ballistics forensics can identify is model, caliber and if you get the gun in hand you can confirm the specific weapon. For a gun model with thousands if not millions in the world you need other pattern matching to begin to confirm gun links.

Posted by: Shrike30 Jul 13 2010, 08:29 PM

The assault rifle of your choice, with recoil compensation, vision magnification, and a sound suppressor (even just a screw-on). If you aren't worried about concealing it, you've got something good for close-range fighting (autofire, large capacity mag, good damage) which can also reach out and touch somebody. Not too hard to make one of these nearly out-of-the-box which is also deadly as hell.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 13 2010, 08:29 PM

That's why I said the Smartgun X. Less range, more conceal, all the built-ins you need.

Posted by: Shrike30 Jul 13 2010, 08:32 PM

If you're in a serious scrounger situation though, the odds are reasonably good that someone nearby will have a spare magazine for a Predator. I'll admit that picking a Glock 23 as a personal carry weapon was slightly influenced by the knowledge that Seattle PD carry a mix of G22's and G23's, and the G23 will accept magazines from either model.

Posted by: Whipstitch Jul 13 2010, 09:17 PM

One of my nastiest characters was a 6 Edge Gunslinger/Face whose only weapon was a Fichetti Security 600 with all the trimmings-- Personalized Grip, Custom Look 2, Improved Range Finder, Smartgun, and my personal favorite part of the weapon, an Additional Clip system. A Fichetti 600 can handle 30 rounds base, after all, so with the additional clip system you've got two 22 round sets of ammo that you can switch between with a Free Action on a weapon that is still sports Heavy Pistol class concealment after the modification. In rougher parts of the town I went with Stick and Shock in one clip and APDS in the other-- You know, in case I felt like being saucy. Sure, he was leaving some damage code on the table, but when you're throwing 20 dice it doesn't hurt much to make some concessions to convenience.

Posted by: SkepticInc Jul 13 2010, 11:16 PM

Ares Redline: AP is 1/2 Impact Armor, DV is 5P, sports a rechargeable power clip. SMG ranges, conceals like a pistol.

"That's nice, it's still not worth it." you say. Oh, I retort, but it is. You see, the thing that you get is that Peak-Discharge Battery Pack. Why does that matter? Because lasers are pointless, and any laser weapon uses more energy less efficiently than a bomb does. So your Peak-Discharge Battery Pack not only lets you shoot your cute little laz pistol, it is a freakishly dense energy storage that you can do fun things with like discharge it onto any conducting surface that someone you don't like is touching. So much fun.

Plus, you get to shout "ZAP!" every time you use your pistol, which is awesome.

Posted by: The Grue Master Jul 13 2010, 11:25 PM

I guess if I could only have one gun (and let's pretend I get a trenchcoat) I'd take:

Ares Alpha
- Stock
- Barrel
+ Foregrip/Sling
+ Low-Light Flashlight
+ GasVent 3
+ Personalized Grip
+ Environment Mod 1

Posted by: Daylen Jul 13 2010, 11:37 PM

anyone mention one of those guns that can be reconfigured into a smg, rifle, assult rifle and maybe pistol?

Posted by: CanRay Jul 14 2010, 12:04 AM

You know, I'm still wondering why we're talking about artillery and naval weapons.

And why do all these firearms use "Clips"? I thought manufacturers figured out how to make "Magazines" to make reloading easier.

Posted by: The Grue Master Jul 14 2010, 12:06 AM

Ancient, inaccurate, semantic differentiation of internal magazines (m) with an external magazine ©.

Posted by: CanRay Jul 14 2010, 12:14 AM

I'm a gun nut. Ancient, inaccurate, semantic differences get on my nerves. Like the revolvers that never need reloading.

I'd be less annoyed if it wasn't for the fact that those very things are used by gun control lobbies all the time.

Posted by: Doc Chase Jul 14 2010, 01:00 AM

A .44 mag S&W Model 29.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 14 2010, 03:01 AM

You can't do anything with that battery except power that laser, and *maybe* other lasers. Hehe.

Posted by: SkepticInc Jul 14 2010, 03:35 AM

RAW doesn't say anything about it, but I guarantee something like that could be a weapon. (it also powers the Screech Rifle, so there.)

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 14 2010, 03:50 AM

Haha, I stand corrected. 'I overload my phasor!'

Posted by: CanRay Jul 14 2010, 03:51 AM

How about overloading the Mage?